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Sam L
Sep 13th, 2004, 01:54 PM
All she needs is now Wimbledon and she'll have all four slams and an Olympic gold medal.

:worship::worship::worship:

That's almost as special as the "Serena Slam".

Steffi Graf is the only other player to have all 4 slams and an Olympic gold medal (which she obviously did in the same year). And Agassi the only man to have a career golden grand slam.

Serena needs an Olympic gold medal in 2008.

And Venus needs Australian and French Opens.

All doable, but right now my money's on Justine to take Wimbledon in one of the upcoming years and complete it first.

Greenout
Sep 13th, 2004, 01:56 PM
When did she announce this? I haven't heard this before?

chris whiteside
Sep 13th, 2004, 01:56 PM
I'm afraid to qualify for a "golden grand slam" all five must be won in the same year.

Sam L
Sep 13th, 2004, 01:58 PM
I'm afraid to qualify for a "golden grand slam" all five must be won in the same year.
"career golden grand slam"

like

"career grand slam"

Junex
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:01 PM
"career golden grand slam"

like

"career grand slam"


agree.

a difference on "calendar" & "career"

:wavey:

fifiricci
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:03 PM
I'm afraid to qualify for a "golden grand slam" all five must be won in the same year.
Quite, and I doubt whether even Roger Federer could achieve that!

Helen Lawson
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:04 PM
I don't know about Justine and Steffi, but I have the "Golden Grand Slam" of Hollywood. I won the New York Film Critics Circle Award, Golden Globe Best Actress in a Drama, and the Best Actress Oscar for the same film. That's the Golden Grand Slam of Hollywood, folks, and I did it!
Charlize did it this last year. It's more common in Hollywood than it is in tennis.

Sam L
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:07 PM
I don't know about Justine and Steffi, but I have the "Golden Grand Slam" of Hollywood. I won the New York Film Critics Circle Award, Golden Globe Best Actress in a Drama, and the Best Actress Oscar for the same film. That's the Golden Grand Slam of Hollywood, folks, and I did it!
Charlize did it this last year. It's more common in Hollywood than it is in tennis.
NO, it isn't. :tape:

The golden grand slam of Hollywood is Oscar, Grammy, Emmy and Tony.

And you don't have that Helen.

I know someone who does though: Helen Hayes. :p

KV
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:10 PM
About M. Navratilova tennis became an Olympic event in 1988. Players like her, Court etc could have won the 4 slams and the Olympics. Comparisons aren't at his place you can't discuss the only player ever to have won the 4 slams and the Olympics

fleemke³
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:11 PM
Well I can only say .. I hope she does :cool:

Helen Lawson
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:14 PM
NO, it isn't. :tape:

The golden grand slam of Hollywood is Oscar, Grammy, Emmy and Tony.

And you don't have that Helen.

I know someone who does though: Helen Hayes. :p
Tony is Broadway, not Hollywood, and an Emmy is like a Tier I, and Grammys don't count anymore because anyone can win one now.

SJW
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:20 PM
go VENUS AND SERENA!

:)

wateva
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:27 PM
i seriously think grass is not her surface though... maria and williams sisters are better grasscourt players imo.

Fingon
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:32 PM
Some people won't agree with me but I really think that Justine's best surface isn't clay but grass.

I think that Justine needs to convince herself that she can win a big event on grass.

Her game, like Roger's is especially suited for grass, she has a good serve (when it lands in). One advantage is that on grass you don't need to hit a 115 mph serve to win free points, the surface helps, so she can take pace off and increase her percentage. At the US Open, despite her terrible form the serve seems to have improved, maybe because she practiced it more during her off time because it requires less (physical) effort.

She has the volleys, she has the slice, the one-handed crosscourt backhand can be lethal on grass because of the angles (ask Jennifer).

Said that, the problem with grass is that there are not enough grass touranments, sure all players face the same problem but some adapt their game quicker than others. Serena for example doesn't need to change her game too much, her serves and groundstrokes are good enough, same for Maria, Justine on the other hand needs to hits more slice and come to the net more, she needs to take pace off and go for the angles and attack the net.

That's about Wimbledon, that's about completing the career GS. I know the media talks about the "golden slam" but I really don't care about it, even though Justine would achieve a career golden slam by winning Wimbledon. I do not think the Olympics can be considered in the mix, best proof are Justine's own words, she played freely at the Olympics but felt the pressure at the US Open, even though she had already won it, even though there are four slams and every year.

Put it this way, if Justine wins Wimbledon next year, she will have won all 4 slams (career gs) and the Olympics (career golden slam) while Serena will have won a career gs but not the golden one, despite that I would still consider Serena's career to be better only because she has won more GS titles (of course unless Justine wins also the Australian Open or RG or both)

SJW
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:44 PM
i will have to disagree with you there Fingon...Henin has improved so much on grass in the past few years but still her backswings are quite long and when faced with an aggressive player who's playing half decent (Serena 03, Venus 02 and 01) she mistimes the ball so much. of course, recently you dont necessarily have to go through a williams to win a slam title, but i think with the emergence with all these short-backswing-hard-hitting Russians, she'll find it harder to win Wimbledon now than before they got their heads together. not to say that she wont...just that her chances have not improved.

Greenout
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:50 PM
i will have to disagree with you there Fingon...Henin has improved so much on grass in the past few years but still her backswings are quite long and when faced with an aggressive player who's playing half decent (Serena 03, Venus 02 and 01) she mistimes the ball so much. of course, recently you dont necessarily have to go through a williams to win a slam title, but i think with the emergence with all these short-backswing-hard-hitting Russians, she'll find it harder to win Wimbledon now than before they got their heads together. not to say that she wont...just that her chances have not improved.


If you watched her matches from the Olympics you'll have
noticed that she was taking shorter swings.

Wishful thinking on your part because they've been tweaking
the HH game constantly. If you looked at videos from 2001, 2002,
2003, and 2004 there's a huge difference each year with shot
making. The serve doesn't even resemble the one she has now,
which was the sort of re-tweaked version from IW 2004.

Fingon
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:57 PM
i will have to disagree with you there Fingon...Henin has improved so much on grass in the past few years but still her backswings are quite long and when faced with an aggressive player who's playing half decent (Serena 03, Venus 02 and 01) she mistimes the ball so much. of course, recently you dont necessarily have to go through a williams to win a slam title, but i think with the emergence with all these short-backswing-hard-hitting Russians, she'll find it harder to win Wimbledon now than before they got their heads together. not to say that she wont...just that her chances have not improved.her backswing is not long, you are confusing her with Amelie, she can have a very short backwing when she needs to (watch the Capriati match in 2001).
Plus, it's not really the backswing that matters, but anticipation, it's about having the racquet back in advance, a big backswing can allow to give more power, more spin or a better angle and can be used on a fast surface if the player can anticipate and prepare early.
You can look at players that are supposed to be good grasscourt players and they do have a big backswing (on the forehand or the backhand). Some players with one-handed backhand considered grasscourt specialists (such as Graf or Novotna) did not have a big backswing simply because they hit mostly slices, you don't need backswing for the slice but you are missing a weapon.
The short swing double handed can be difficult to control on grass, and that's where Justine's ability comes to play. I said she needs to convince herself to play grass style, but if she keeps the balls low with the slice, that makes a lot harder to hit a double-handed backhand and do something with it.
I know Chris Evert said a two-handed is more suited for grass, but she must be on drugs. Pete Sampras changed to one-handed backhand because he wanted to win Wimbledon. The thing with the one-handed on grass is that it's a more unpredictable shot, if a two-hander is gonna hit a slice it's easier to read and predict, a one-handed (like Justine or Roger) can come up with a slice, a top spin, down the line or cross court, on grass you don't have to react to that. Justine dominated short swing Capriati in 2001 mostly on the backhand side, because Capriati couldn't react fast enough not knowing what was coming.
Of course if Serena is on, she will blow you off the court, however, again it's about anticipation, if you can read her serve, it can come back very quickly and on grass that's lethal. A big part of being a grass specialist is being a good returner (btw, there are not grass specialist in today's game, maybe Federer is the closest but I would say he is an all surface specialist ready).
Finally, other than Sharapova, I don't see any upcoming great grass player (maybe Kuznetsova).
]

SJW
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:58 PM
If you watched her matches from the Olympics you'll have
noticed that she was taking shorter swings.

Wishful thinking on your part because they've been tweaking
the HH game constantly. If you looked at videos from 2001, 2002,
2003, and 2004 there's a huge difference each year with shot
making. The serve doesn't even resemble the one she has now,
which was the sort of re-tweaked version from IW 2004.

i was on a wonderful vacation at the time, didn't really want to ruin it by watching Olympic women's tennis.

wishful thinking? no. the serve is struggling, she STILL has longer back swings than most players and she doesn't have just the williams sisters as the more aggressive players. she's got a whole load of Muscovites too. it's gonna be hard for ANYONE to win Wimbledon next year, not just Henin :rolleyes:

Helen Lawson
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:00 PM
I have to agree that the Olympics aren't that big a deal in tennis. It's like winning in Cannes, it's nice, but it's not part of the pre-Oscar awards and is not like a huge feather in your cap. A lot of dames who win at Cannes aren't even nominated for an Oscar.

SJW
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:09 PM
her backswing is not long, you are confusing her with Amelie, she can have a very short backwing when she needs to (watch the Capriati match in 2001).
Plus, it's not really the backswing that matters, but anticipation, it's about having the racquet back in advance, a big backswing can allow to give more power, more spin or a better angle and can be used on a fast surface if the player can anticipate and prepare early.
You can look at players that are supposed to be good grasscourt players and they do have a big backswing (on the forehand or the backhand). Some players with one-handed backhand considered grasscourt specialists (such as Graf or Novotna) did not have a big backswing simply because they hit mostly slices, you don't need backswing for the slice but you are missing a weapon.
The short swing double handed can be difficult to control on grass, and that's where Justine's ability comes to play. I said she needs to convince herself to play grass style, but if she keeps the balls low with the slice, that makes a lot harder to hit a double-handed backhand and do something with it.
I know Chris Evert said a two-handed is more suited for grass, but she must be on drugs. Pete Sampras changed to one-handed backhand because he wanted to win Wimbledon. The thing with the one-handed on grass is that it's a more unpredictable shot, if a two-hander is gonna hit a slice it's easier to read and predict, a one-handed (like Justine or Roger) can come up with a slice, a top spin, down the line or cross court, on grass you don't have to react to that. Justine dominated short swing Capriati in 2001 mostly on the backhand side, because Capriati couldn't react fast enough not knowing what was coming.
Of course if Serena is on, she will blow you off the court, however, again it's about anticipation, if you can read her serve, it can come back very quickly and on grass that's lethal. A big part of being a grass specialist is being a good returner (btw, there are not grass specialist in today's game, maybe Federer is the closest but I would say he is an all surface specialist ready).
Finally, other than Sharapova, I don't see any upcoming great grass player (maybe Kuznetsova).
]

yea, a good and interesting reply. i've watched Henin's last competitive match on grass many times as it was enjoyable for me. and her undoing was the timing on the backhand side. i didnt really watch Henin that much at Wimbledon last year because i was at Wimbledon watching my faves. but i did see the semi match. when trying to understand WHY it was an off day for her, it was all about the serve and her backswings. the serve isn't all there just yet but i got a feeling she'll do something about it soon (even though it's been a problem for a while now-obviously "problem" being in relation to the other parts of her game).

Pete Sampras was a special player, as is Roger Federer. about being one handed...more power obviously, but you can have a great two handed backhand that is unplayable on grass (ala Venus). i dont really rate Jennifer as "being good on grass" because she's so defensive now. so dominating her and moving her side to side isn't that impressive, because she plays for you to move her side to side.

re upcoming "grass players", you dont have to be a grass court specialist to win Wimbledon, otherwise Serena would have never won (before this year she was awful on volleys and not too good on slice). the trick now is bringing your game to the court, which is something these Ruskis are doing. and when you can hit the shit out of the ball, like most of them can, you dont have to worry about not having a "pretty all court game". these upcoming aggressors are gonna be the ones winning Wimbledon in years to come in my opinion, not those who possess a classical grass court game (on the women's side that is).

©@®eLess
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:21 PM
Cannes is pure class, comparing to Hollywood which is like a marketplace comparing to Europe. Just look which roles won Oscars, Two actresses had to completely rearrange their faces to win it!!!!!!! And Halle Berry, come on that wasn't an Oscar!!!!!!!! Movies at Cannes are pure class, it's real fim festival, not a fixed award festival in Hollywood.
That's why Emir Kusturica has two golden palms, and nominations for two more, instead of that a pure pathetic like Erin Brokovich and Monster win so many Oscars, come on!!!!!!! Check back where the culture comes from-- GOOD OLD EUROPE

fleemke³
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:21 PM
I have to agree that the Olympics aren't that big a deal in tennis. It's like winning in Cannes, it's nice, but it's not part of the pre-Oscar awards and is not like a huge feather in your cap. A lot of dames who win at Cannes aren't even nominated for an Oscar.

Mmmmm often the winners from Cannes are better movies than some Oscar winners :cool: ;)

Helen Lawson
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:27 PM
Cannes is pure class, comparing to Hollywood which is like a marketplace comparing to Europe. Just look which roles won Oscars, Two actresses had to completely rearrange their faces to win it!!!!!!! And Halle Berry, come on that wasn't an Oscar!!!!!!!! Movies at Cannes are pure class, it's real fim festival, not a fixed award festival in Hollywood.
That's why Emir Kusturica has two golden palms, and nominations for two more, instead of that a pure pathetic like Erin Brokovich and Monster win so many Oscars, come on!!!!!!! Check back where the culture comes from-- GOOD OLD EUROPE
Well, I have to admit, the Oscars have really gone downhill the last several decades. I mean, I played a woman on death row who got executed, and I looked like a million bucks in those scenes! Even in the gas chamber, I was smokin', and that was before they dropped the pellets into the acid!

Don't get me wrong, I have a Cannes Best Actress award as well, but the world of Hollywood, that's not on par with the Oscars, Golden Globes, or the NY Film Critics award.

clonesheep
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:37 PM
i seriously think grass is not her surface though... maria and williams sisters are better grasscourt players imo.

Grass might not be Justine's best surface, but she has proved that she can compete at the highest level on grass. Remember she was at 2001 Wimbledon final, taking Venus (at her peak) to 3 sets. And she made the semis in 2003, losing to Serena. Other than the W sisters and Maria, no one else has a better record at Wimbledon in the last 4 years.

cynicole
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:39 PM
Tony is Broadway, not Hollywood, and an Emmy is like a Tier I, and Grammys don't count anymore because anyone can win one now.
So true about the Grammys. :o

SerenaSlam
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:54 PM
All she needs is now Wimbledon and she'll have all four slams and an Olympic gold medal.

:worship::worship::worship:

That's almost as special as the "Serena Slam".

Steffi Graf is the only other player to have all 4 slams and an Olympic gold medal (which she obviously did in the same year). And Agassi the only man to have a career golden grand slam.

Serena needs an Olympic gold medal in 2008.

And Venus needs Australian and French Opens.

All doable, but right now my money's on Justine to take Wimbledon in one of the upcoming years and complete it first.
didnt we know this almost officially 2 months ago :rolleyes:

When you think about it though, Serena has the best chance to win all the "big one".

All she needs is Olympic Singles, and 2 mixed doubles titles i believe the Australian and US Open, not sure, and she would have won EVERY DAMN THING. :eek:

SerenaSlam
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:56 PM
Grass might not be Justine's best surface, but she has proved that she can compete at the highest level on grass. Remember she was at 2001 Wimbledon final, taking Venus (at her peak) to 3 sets. And she made the semis in 2003, losing to Serena. Other than the W sisters and Maria, no one else has a better record at Wimbledon in the last 4 years.
Lindsay, only loosing to the eventual champion or runner up since she won wimbledon in 99.

fleemke³
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:56 PM
Do you really think Serena would be still playing in 2008 :confused:

SJW
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:58 PM
just to piss you guys off, yes :p

she wants that medal....she couldn't compete in 00, injury forced her out this year, i seriously believe she's gonna attempt the 3 things that have so far eluded her and take her place as the best of this generation :)

fleemke³
Sep 13th, 2004, 04:08 PM
just to piss you guys off, yes :p

she wants that medal....she couldn't compete in 00, injury forced her out this year, i seriously believe she's gonna attempt the 3 things that have so far eluded her and take her place as the best of this generation :)
You need more to piss me off ;) But I would be surprised to see her going on that long ... but who knows :)

Fingon
Sep 13th, 2004, 04:19 PM
yea, a good and interesting reply.
thanks :)

i've watched Henin's last competitive match on grass many times as it was enjoyable for me. and her undoing was the timing on the backhand side. i didnt really watch Henin that much at Wimbledon last year because i was at Wimbledon watching my faves. but i did see the semi match. when trying to understand WHY it was an off day for her,
this is Justine's weakness, it happens quite a while, often against lesser opponents and she walks away with it (think Santangelo Australian Open), but obvioulsy she can't afford that against Serena.

Why did that happen? I can only speculate, let down after winning a Grand Slam, feeling the pressure of the controversy at the French Open, Serena too good that day, the finger injury (that wasn't really bothering her but could have been in the back of her mind). Honeslty I can't tell for sure and probably she can't.


it was all about the serve and her backswings. the serve isn't all there just yet but i got a feeling she'll do something about it soon (even though it's been a problem for a while now-obviously "problem" being in relation to the other parts of her game).
well, I agree and disagree. Her serve can be a liability, especially against Serena or Maria, but not as much as it looks. It can be a real weapon and Justine lately has developed the ability to serve well at important stages (it haven't been unusual her serving aces on breakpoints), and her second serve is one of the best.

It would be great for her if she could up that percentage but I think at the US Open she was serving quite well (actually it's the only thing she was doing well), so I hope this improvement becomes permanent. As I said, on grass you don't need to beat a speed record, disguise and placement are more important so I think she should take pace off and try to place it well and have a high percentage.

The backswing looks worse when she is not anticipating well, if she is nervous and her mind is somewhere else (she seems to have a condo in La La Land) it's not gonna work. I've seen Justine a lot and believe me, her best tennis comes when she is not thinking. Interesting enough, that's what Pete Sampras said about his success in Wimbledon. He said that because he didn't have time to think, his best (natural) tennis could show up (not this exact words but you get the idea).

Pete Sampras was a special player, as is Roger Federer.
agreed

about being one handed...more power obviously, but you can have a great two handed backhand that is unplayable on grass (ala Venus).
obviously you can win with a two handed: Venus, Serena, Davenport, Chris Evert, Hewitt, Goran, Maria, you obviously can play well on grass with a two-handed, only that the one-handed is better suited IMO.

i dont really rate Jennifer as "being good on grass" because she's so defensive now. so dominating her and moving her side to side isn't that impressive, because she plays for you to move her side to side.
She isn't a grasscourter, and she is indeed very defensive, but that wasn't the case in 2001, however you are right, her game is not suited for grass but most player's isn't.

re upcoming "grass players", you dont have to be a grass court specialist to win Wimbledon,
unless you are facing a grasscourt specialist in an on day. (not likely to happen nowadays).

otherwise Serena would have never won (before this year she was awful on volleys and not too good on slice).
Serena is Serena, you can't use her as an example, few players if any have a serve like hers, groundstrokes like hers and movement like hers. she can't afford to lack in other areas with such strenghts, a bit like Monica Seles, she did not have much variety but was so good in what she did that she really didn't need it.

the trick now is bringing your game to the court, which is something these Ruskis are doing. and when you can hit the shit out of the ball, like most of them can, you dont have to worry about not having a "pretty all court game".
I disagree here, hitting the shit out of the ball is not making the trick anymore. Once thing I noticed in Montreal this year is that most players are really getting used to the power, you need something extra now. If it was up to power Karolina Sprem would be the Wimbledon and US Open champion.

Maria doesn't have much variety but she has an excellent serve for grass, not very fast but well placed and well disguised, and has good anges thanks to her height. She moves well, isn't too fast but that's not a problem on grass, and is very aggressive that is a great asset on grass. More important, she likes it and believe she can play on it.

Dementieva and Kuznetsova are not just hard hitters, in fact Kuznetsova doesn't hit that hard, she goes for the lines and can attack the net, and has a good serve (again, not too fast despite some vogus statistics, but well placed and disguised).

Dementieva isn't anyway a good grasscourter.

You don't have to worry about a pretty game, but you need more than power, remember also that this year has been atypical. Kim Clijster out for most of it, sure Kim isn't good in finals but if you have to get past her before the final it's not pretty. Justine didn't play Wimby and was very far from her best at RG and US Open. Serena is playing the worst I've ever seen her, same for Venus, not taking anything away from the winners but having 3 new GS winners this year doesn't mean the same will happen in the future, or that the same three players will be winning the slams.

I actually predicted Kuznetsova to be the best Russian along with Sharapova, but I think they both got their slam too quickly, I don't think either is completely ready (Maria less ready than Kuznetsova).

I don't see many other players with the ability to breakthrough at that level, except maybe Sprem but she really needs to calm down, the one player I have huge expectations on is Tatiana Golovin but she needs some time.
these upcoming aggressors are gonna be the ones winning Wimbledon in years to come in my opinion, not those who possess a classical grass court game (on the women's side that is).

pigam
Sep 13th, 2004, 05:30 PM
wow, so nice (verrrry verry nice) to read this thread that is actually about :eek: tennis :eek:
Thanks Fignon and SJW for interesting analysis :)


Oh, and SJW, this made me LOL :lol: :lol:
i've watched Henin's last competitive match on grass many times as it was enjoyable for me.
:o, You see. Justine is just such a joy to watch for every single one of us :p ;)

SJW
Sep 13th, 2004, 06:31 PM
You need more to piss me off ;) But I would be surprised to see her going on that long ... but who knows :)

she said she'll be playing until at least 30, she'll be 26 next olympics, i don't necessarily think she'll win but she could have a chance.

wow, Serena 26 next olympics? :eek: i still think of her as a little girl.

SJW
Sep 13th, 2004, 06:57 PM
thanks :)
this is Justine's weakness, it happens quite a while, often against lesser opponents and she walks away with it (think Santangelo Australian Open), but obvioulsy she can't afford that against Serena.

agreed, she hardly ever plays her best tennis but she wins a hell of a lot. sign of a champion ;)

Why did that happen? I can only speculate, let down after winning a Grand Slam, feeling the pressure of the controversy at the French Open, Serena too good that day, the finger injury (that wasn't really bothering her but could have been in the back of her mind). Honeslty I can't tell for sure and probably she can't.

just one of those day i guess. i've seen her play like that before and win, but like you said, there's a difference between playing like that against an inexperience opponent and Serena Williams.

well, I agree and disagree. Her serve can be a liability, especially against Serena or Maria, but not as much as it looks. It can be a real weapon and Justine lately has developed the ability to serve well at important stages (it haven't been unusual her serving aces on breakpoints), and her second serve is one of the best.

well i agree to you agreeing and disagreeing :p if i was her fan i'd driven wild...sometimes she has a clutch serve, sometimes her serve will just hand you he match. i guess it's because she's all or nothing on her serve.

It would be great for her if she could up that percentage but I think at the US Open she was serving quite well (actually it's the only thing she was doing well), so I hope this improvement becomes permanent. As I said, on grass you don't need to beat a speed record, disguise and placement are more important so I think she should take pace off and try to place it well and have a high percentage.

agreed to the latter part.

The backswing looks worse when she is not anticipating well, if she is nervous and her mind is somewhere else (she seems to have a condo in La La Land) it's not gonna work. I've seen Justine a lot and believe me, her best tennis comes when she is not thinking. Interesting enough, that's what Pete Sampras said about his success in Wimbledon. He said that because he didn't have time to think, his best (natural) tennis could show up (not this exact words but you get the idea).

well she seems/seemed to think alot vs Serena and Venus not on clay. but they're not her only rivals anymore. that Petrova match was amazing from Nadia...but not beyond her. i've always thought of Nadia as a good player, and i think you're overlooking her as a grass courter. her movement is her weakness but you dont have to be the best mover on grass if you have that first strike capability and can volley like she can. i think Sveta can be a good grass courter, when Maria gets some variety and a game plan, she can be one of the best...Dementieva hasnt been that successful, but man, if you had to bet on one of them having one shot to kill a ball, it would be her and her forehand. Myskina has deceptive pace...dont think she'll be great, but she'll do ok. then you got the rest of the world...Amelie isnt gonna have mental problems forever, and she'll lead the pack. her match vs Serena at Wimby this year was one of the best slam matches this year IMO.

agreed
obviously you can win with a two handed: Venus, Serena, Davenport, Chris Evert, Hewitt, Goran, Maria, you obviously can play well on grass with a two-handed, only that the one-handed is better suited IMO.

yea cuz they're more natural volleyers, and yes the slice can be very effective

She isn't a grasscourter, and she is indeed very defensive, but that wasn't the case in 2001, however you are right, her game is not suited for grass but most player's isn't.

you're probably right. Jen has become more and more defensive the older she's got.

unless you are facing a grasscourt specialist in an on day. (not likely to happen nowadays).
Serena is Serena, you can't use her as an example, few players if any have a serve like hers, groundstrokes like hers and movement like hers. she can't afford to lack in other areas with such strenghts, a bit like Monica Seles, she did not have much variety but was so good in what she did that she really didn't need it.

but you have to admit, not being able to slice and volley is a considerable weakness on grass. but thank god she's added that to her arsenal now.

I disagree here, hitting the shit out of the ball is not making the trick anymore. Once thing I noticed in Montreal this year is that most players are really getting used to the power, you need something extra now. If it was up to power Karolina Sprem would be the Wimbledon and US Open champion.

but all of these up coming players hit the shit out of the ball. K-Lina beat one of the best grass players by matching fire with fire, something that is pretty new nowadays...only recently have people been playing the WS by trying to overpower them.

Maria doesn't have much variety but she has an excellent serve for grass, not very fast but well placed and well disguised, and has good anges thanks to her height. She moves well, isn't too fast but that's not a problem on grass, and is very aggressive that is a great asset on grass. More important, she likes it and believe she can play on it.

like you said, aggressive is the key ;) she won Wimbledon by going for broke. if her shots weren't on, she wouldn't have won. she's not a Serena or a Justine. when she's not on, she loses in the quarters badly like she did to Suarez. when they are, she's awesome, but developing a game plan is the next stage for her.

Dementieva and Kuznetsova are not just hard hitters, in fact Kuznetsova doesn't hit that hard, she goes for the lines and can attack the net, and has a good serve (again, not too fast despite some vogus statistics, but well placed and disguised).

Dementieva isn't anyway a good grasscourter.

yea Kuz is an all round player. IMO she has the potential to be the best of the lot. Elena isnt a grass courter, but from the back of the court, she'll take on anyone on her day

You don't have to worry about a pretty game, but you need more than power, remember also that this year has been atypical. Kim Clijster out for most of it, sure Kim isn't good in finals but if you have to get past her before the final it's not pretty. Justine didn't play Wimby and was very far from her best at RG and US Open. Serena is playing the worst I've ever seen her, same for Venus, not taking anything away from the winners but having 3 new GS winners this year doesn't mean the same will happen in the future, or that the same three players will be winning the slams.

agreed, no one has been that good this year which is reflected in Mauresmo getting to #1 without even getting to a semi of a slam. i think next year, a sense of normality will return to the tour, with people staying healthy and all the players competing

I actually predicted Kuznetsova to be the best Russian along with Sharapova, but I think they both got their slam too quickly, I don't think either is completely ready (Maria less ready than Kuznetsova).

right. Sharapova was no where near ready. and as a fan i was disappointed she did win. she's not gonna win another slam in the next 2 years at least IMO, she's not really a contender for the big titles, but when her game matures a bit, she'll be right up there every match.

I don't see many other players with the ability to breakthrough at that level, except maybe Sprem but she really needs to calm down, the one player I have huge expectations on is Tatiana Golovin but she needs some time.


Tati and K-Lina :yeah:

Philip
Sep 13th, 2004, 08:12 PM
sure.. theres always 2008. :)

bandabou
Sep 13th, 2004, 09:36 PM
Would be a nice achievement.

peanuts
Sep 15th, 2004, 07:22 AM
wow some nice in-depth analysis...good read guys...its great to hear people talk deeply about players other than their faves ;) fingon and sjw :yeah: :)

Elldee
Sep 15th, 2004, 08:51 AM
Just to go off in a Lindsay tangent, all she needs in the French to get a career golden grand slam... or whatever.

skanky~skanketta
Sep 15th, 2004, 06:29 PM
saah, when'd u get so smart?