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View Full Version : If this IS the 'Russian Domination', what will we see going forward that proves it?


Volcana
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:03 AM
There are a number of Tier I and II tournaments coming up, and the YEC. If this is the age of 'Russian Domination', will they sweep those tournaments, especially given that there ARE six of them?

I don't really care if you think that their time has come or not. I want to know what do you think will offer proof, IN THE FUTURE, IN UPCOMING TOURNAMENTS, that this wasn't just a good three months for Russian tennis. (It was however, a VERY good three months.)

Knizzle
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:13 AM
None of the Russians have separated themselves from the field like the Williams/Belgians did. That was REAL domination.

arunsjunk
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:16 AM
it's whoever survives wins, right now ... i think the game has been upped big time, and a lot more power with a mix of wicked slices ... we'll probably get somebody with a Graf-like slice in the WTA :)

we'll probably see a new player winning every tournament. unless of course Venus and Serena are seriously back ... :)

Volcana
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:22 AM
Well maybe. But what WOULD 'domination' look like. Would some Russian player win every tournament? MOST of the tournaments? The Americans don't all go to Europe for the fall, so it could be Justine vs Russia out there.

ys
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:23 AM
You are talking too much of a short term stuff.. No one really cares much about indoor tournaments, apart from YEC.. And given that YEC is likely to have 5 Russians in its field.. Yes, I expecta a Russian to win it too.. But really, the next stop is Australian Open.. Anything before that is .. minor..

Greenout
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:28 AM
You are talking too much of a short term stuff.. No one really cares much about indoor tournaments, apart from YEC.. And given that YEC is likely to have 5 Russians in its field.. Yes, I expecta a Russian to win it too.. But really, the next stop is Australian Open.. Anything before that is .. minor..


Sorry, YS. Zurich is a TIER 1, and is considered very big.
People do care about this tournament. Filderstadt is technically
only a TIER II; but people really care about this indoor event too.

Moscow is a TIER 1; but as with the Tokyo Pan Pacific it's
not something people feel they have to win. It's more about
players who feel good and go back to it annually.

Linz is about the same as Philly in terms of importance; but
nobody is going to complain about not winning it.

ys
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:42 AM
Sorry, YS. Zurich is a TIER 1, and is considered very big.
People do care about this tournament. Filderstadt is technically
only a TIER II; but people really care about this indoor event too.

Moscow is a TIER 1; but as with the Tokyo Pan Pacific it's
not something people feel they have to win. It's more about
players who feel good and go back to it annually.

Linz is about the same as Philly in terms of importance; but
nobody is going to complain about not winning it.
Whatever.. In three years time only few things will be remembered about year 2004. Who won four Slams. Who won Olympics. Who ended year as #1. Who won Fed Cup. Zurich, Moscow, Filderstadt and Linz are decent tournament.. But anyone would easily prefer to win one Australian Open then all four of those tourney.. The season is pretty much over.. All that is left is Fed Cup and YEC.. And even they are ... insignificant..

TheBoiledEgg
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:42 AM
Moscow is a TIER 1; but as with the Tokyo Pan Pacific it's
not something people feel they have to win. It's more about
players who feel good and go back to it annually.


try telling that to
Myskina, Dementieva, Kuznetsova, Zvonareva etc

tenn_ace
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:47 AM
Russian domination could be a lot longer than Williams/Belgian domination because it doesn't rely on 2 players, but rather 5-7 excellent one. So when gets injured or in slump there will be other who will pick it up... And that's what you should be talking about it.

Volcana
Sep 13th, 2004, 05:22 AM
Russian domination could be a lot longer than Williams/Belgian domination because it doesn't rely on 2 players, but rather 5-7 excellent one. So when gets injured or in slump there will be other who will pick it up... And that's what you should be talking about it.That's what I'm ASKING about. If it depends on 5-7 p[layers, can I reasonably expect them to start sweep Tier I and II events. Can I expect a Russian in Every final a la the WIlliams sisters in 2002? I'm asking the question. You tell me the answer.

Daniel
Sep 13th, 2004, 08:36 AM
Russian Girls Rule women's tennis :worship: :bounce: :D

Gowza
Sep 13th, 2004, 08:43 AM
i think the russians will be in the mix at the tier 1 and 2 events and also in the slams but the williams sisters, belgians, mauresmo, davenport and capriati are all in the mix as well. the russians have got the better of them at the slams for the moment and as much as i would like for the russians to win all the top tournaments i think that the other top players will get in there as well. however there are a number of russians that havent quite made the breakthrough that myskina, sharapova, kuznetsova and dementieva have and they are very talented, players like zvonareva, petrova, bovina. they have games to go far in these big tournaments so if they pick their games up like the others have then we may well see many all russian finals in the top events. and within a couple of years there should be more russians at the top or nearing the top ie eg douchevina, kirilenko, safina, lina k and maybe a couple of others.

but atm i dont think the tour will be completely dominated by the russians.

Vass22
Sep 13th, 2004, 08:59 AM
They've already proven themselves. Atleast the "Russian domination" is proven. Yes even the best of them might not win 2 Slams in a rowm but that Russians win Slams in a row can't be denied. Plus we saw that tournament winning streak that lasted from RG till (after?) Wimbledon.
Anyway, they have proven themselves, most importantly to themselves. i don't care if you're not convinced, but that wouldn't stop them from sweaping through other GS titles and other titles.

When Russians were winning only small tourneys (tier 2 and below) critics said that "they don't have a single GS to their name so that doesn't mean anything. GS's are the true indicators". Now they are winning Grand Slams and you want smaller tournaments all of the sudden? This is ridiculous!

Note: I don't think there'll be "dominance" in the near future. It's not the right word. I think "presence" will be correct. They'll be winning Tier one's, two's and three's, but not all of them. JHH, Clijsters, Williams, Davenport (if she stays), Capriati will win too, but less. Individually the above named may be winning more than a given Russian (with exceptions) but as there are a lot of top class Russians no one should be surprised if a Russian will be winning every second trournament. Remember, we're always making a mistake of comparing one individual with a group of atleast 5. Justine (or in the best case "the Belgians" against the whole of Russian horde. That's a mistake. Don't view the Horde s a team, view them as separate players.

Vass22
Sep 13th, 2004, 10:42 AM
Moscow is a TIER 1; but as with the Tokyo Pan Pacific it's
not something people feel they have to win. It's more about
players who feel good and go back to it annually.


try telling that to
Myskina, Dementieva, Kuznetsova, Zvonareva etc

Exactly Eggy.
I bet that atleast two of the top-5 players will play there, 1 No.6 and possibly two other top-tenners . Not a Tier-1?

ys
Sep 13th, 2004, 11:25 AM
That's what I'm ASKING about. If it depends on 5-7 p[layers, can I reasonably expect them to start sweep Tier I and II events. Can I expect a Russian in Every final a la the WIlliams sisters in 2002? I'm asking the question. You tell me the answer.
I believe that since they won their first Slam, you do have a Russian in nearly every Tier I and II final..

Ryan
Sep 13th, 2004, 11:28 AM
Grr.

Volcana
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:07 PM
I believe that since they won their first Slam, you do have a Russian in nearly every Tier I and II final..Being who I am, I HAD to look that up.:) 9 of 13 is certainly NEARLY 'nearly'.

Roland Garros....| Myskina ...... (RUS) d Dementieva ... (RUS)
Birmingham.......| Sharapova .... (RUS) d Golovin ...... (FRA)
Eastbourne.......| Kuznetsova ... (RUS) d Hantuchova ... (SVK)
's-Hertogenbosch.| Pierce ....... (FRA) d Koukalova .... (CZE)
Wimbledon........| Sharapova .... (RUS) d S Williams ... (USA)
Stanford.........| Davenport .... (USA) d V Williams ... (USA)
Los Angeles......| Davenport .... (USA) d S Williams ... (USA)
San Diego........| Davenport .... (USA) d Myskina ...... (RUS)
Montreal.........| Mauresmo ..... (FRA) d Likhovtseva .. (RUS)
The Olympics.....| Henin-Hardenne (BEL) d Mauresmo ..... (FRA)
Cincinnati.......| Davenport .... (USA) d Zvonareva .... (RUS)
New Haven........| Bovina ....... (RUS) d Dechy ........ (FRA)
US Open..........| Kuznetsova ... (RUS) d Dementieva ... (RUS)

Sam L
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:15 PM
So we had "Williams domination" to "Belgian domination" to "Russian domination". Sorry, but just dominations do not exist. Least of all now. I mean at least with the Williams I can understand because they're sisters, but I don't think the Russian girls are one with each other at all.

I mean, for instance, Sharapova probably considers Dementieva to be a big a rival to her as say Venus.

You can't dominate as a team if there is no "team".

It appears as if they're all playing for themselves. That's the way I see it.

And none of the Russians have dominated yet so we'll need to wait until next year.

Barring injury, I still say Justine is dominating.

ys
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:37 PM
Being who I am, I HAD to look that up.:) 9 of 13 is certainly NEARLY 'nearly'.

Roland Garros....| Myskina ...... (RUS) d Dementieva ... (RUS)
Birmingham.......| Sharapova .... (RUS) d Golovin ...... (FRA)
Eastbourne.......| Kuznetsova ... (RUS) d Hantuchova ... (SVK)
's-Hertogenbosch.| Pierce ....... (FRA) d Koukalova .... (CZE)
Wimbledon........| Sharapova .... (RUS) d S Williams ... (USA)
Stanford.........| Davenport .... (USA) d V Williams ... (USA)
Los Angeles......| Davenport .... (USA) d S Williams ... (USA)
San Diego........| Davenport .... (USA) d Myskina ...... (RUS)
Montreal.........| Mauresmo ..... (FRA) d Likhovtseva .. (RUS)
The Olympics.....| Henin-Hardenne (BEL) d Mauresmo ..... (FRA)
Cincinnati.......| Davenport .... (USA) d Zvonareva .... (RUS)
New Haven........| Bovina ....... (RUS) d Dechy ........ (FRA)
US Open..........| Kuznetsova ... (RUS) d Dementieva ... (RUS)
Take out 's-Hertogenbosch and Birmingham, which are Tier III. Take out Stanford where no top Russian played. And you get 8 out of 10. WHich perhaps does qualify as "nearly".. :)

Sam L
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:45 PM
Keep in mind how many tournaments have been played by Serena and Justine in those tournaments?

Since that French Open... (supposedly when this "Russian domination" started)

Justine has played 3 including that French Open (French Open; Olympics; US Open).

Serena has played 4 including that French Open (French Open; Wimbledon; Los Angeles; US Open).

There hasn't been any chance for them to take the spots that the Russians have been taking.

CJ07
Sep 13th, 2004, 02:46 PM
Well lets look at this objectively.

Bovina and Myskina are the best indoor players the Russians have.
Bovina is playing better and better each week, and Myskina is starting to get upstaged by Dementieva.

Both will have had adequete time off before the end of the year.

I say at least 3 tournament titles between them from Filderstat to YEC

Junex
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:11 PM
Russian domination could be a lot longer than Williams/Belgian domination because it doesn't rely on 2 players, but rather 5-7 excellent one. So when gets injured or in slump there will be other who will pick it up... And that's what you should be talking about it.


I think its the other way around.
There are a lot of very good russians in the top 20, 7 of them & 5 in the top ten. But all of them dnt have that firepower needed to dominate tennis. Sveta has a chance but still needs to add more variety on her game to do so.

with relevance to their number in the top ten, there is a great probability that a russian can win a tournament. all of them are playing week in-week out and that says a lot. Assuming that all the top ten are playing the same tournament and that all play it to their seed, there is a 50/50 chance that a russian could take the title and thats just what happened in this years GS results.

I dnt really call that "domination" , i prefered it called "revolution".

Volcana
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:39 PM
Take out 's-Hertogenbosch and Birmingham, which are Tier III. Take out Stanford where no top Russian played. And you get 8 out of 10. WHich perhaps does qualify as "nearly".. :)You can't take out Stanford. You can't dominate if you don't play. As for 's-Hertogenbosch and Birmingham, yeah they're Tier III, but the grass court season is puny without them! We must give grass all the help we can!

Veritas
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:47 PM
try telling that to
Myskina, Dementieva, Kuznetsova, Zvonareva etc

They are Russian. It is expected for them to feel that the Kremlin Cup is especially important for them.

ys
Sep 13th, 2004, 03:48 PM
They are Russian. It is expected for them to feel that the Kremlin Cup is especially important for them.
Try telling that to Sharapova.

the cat
Sep 13th, 2004, 04:02 PM
LOL at ys's Sharapova quip. :lol: :(

Good post tenn_ace.

Volcana, as a Russian tennis fan I want Maria and the girls to do well in the 4 grand slams and everthying else is secondary in my opinion. I think the Russina's will dominate the WTA Tour in the coming years because Russia has several really good female tennis players who are young and hungry to win. I think Myskina, Sharapova, Kuznetsova, Dementieva, Petrova, Zvonareva and Bovina are all capable of playing deep into every grand slam tournament they play. And once Petrova, Zvonareva and Bovina learn how to win then they will be serious grand slam threats too.

And the Ladies Kremlin Cup will have a very good field even without the top American women playing there.

xan
Sep 13th, 2004, 04:20 PM
The domination is definitely starting. I would expect russians to win 50% of the coming tournaments up to the YEC. The big threats to russian domination next year are strictly maybe's.

IF Justine returns to form
IF Kim can come back strong
IF Mauresmo keeps winning Tier 1s and 2s
IF Lindsay doesn't retire
IF Serena can recapture her form

There might be someone to oppose the Russians. If not, the WTA may become Russian civil wars.

vettipooh
Sep 27th, 2004, 01:10 PM
That's what I'm ASKING about. If it depends on 5-7 p[layers, can I reasonably expect them to start sweep Tier I and II events. Can I expect a Russian in Every final a la the WIlliams sisters in 2002? I'm asking the question. You tell me the answer.Interesting, Volcana. You can expect a Russian in every final, but they may not necessarily win......Serena had to put away 4 in a row to take the China Open. Not an easy feat considering their form. Your original question.....Will they sweep tier1's and 11's................... Hmmmmmmm??

bandabou
Sep 27th, 2004, 01:22 PM
Hey...yeah, so Maria is the only "russian" not playing Moscow?! Wow...that isnŽt gonna help her popularity..

Emptiness
Sep 27th, 2004, 01:57 PM
The Mashabators will still love her. ;)

3 out of 4 Grand Slams have been won by Russians i think thats enough proof. And there are many talented up and coming Russians behind these "pioneers" who are still improving.

Stefwhit
Sep 27th, 2004, 03:07 PM
I don't think anything else is left for the Russian women to do- this tennis season belongs to them, without a doubt. Will this magical season spill over into next season, I'm doubtful. The Russian women, as a whole, will always be a mighty force to contend with, but there are enough talented women who are up for the challenge, not to mention in any given draw half of the Russian women end up playing each other anyway (so that takes care of half of them). They deserve all the praise they have recieved this year for what they've done- this year has been remarkable in terms of acheivement for the Russian women.

When 2005 starts, assuming the top players are all healthy, it should be interesting to see how things unfold. I think this Russian revolution will be tested next year, I hope Russian fan expectations aren't set too high, but we'll see....

bandabou
Sep 27th, 2004, 03:28 PM
WeŽll see next year how things unfold....but definetely this year was all about the russians.

Experimentee
Sep 27th, 2004, 03:31 PM
It wil be Russian domination if they win at least 3 out of 4 Slams next year. Thats pretty much what every dominating player has to have done, like Justine, Serena, Venus etc.
But its not as hard to do because there are about 5-7 of them, whereas with previous dominations its only been done by one or two players.

goldenlox
Sep 27th, 2004, 04:37 PM
I don't know if the Russians will dominate, but it's the youth and number of them that is special.
The Wimbledon and US Open champions are teenagers.
Svetlana was losing in qualies last fall. Maria was playing 25k's last spring.

skanky~skanketta
Sep 27th, 2004, 05:49 PM
well, if any russian is gonna dominate, i hope its vera z.

vettipooh
Sep 27th, 2004, 07:38 PM
well, if any russian is gonna dominate, i hope its vera z. but right now it looks like Sveta....two winners trophies back to back, and one runner up.Good showing.

bandabou
Sep 27th, 2004, 07:46 PM
Yep...Sveta is looking more and more like the real deal.

shap_half
Sep 27th, 2004, 07:56 PM
All year long the Russians have yet to win a Tier I title. They've won several lower Tier events and I believe 3 Tier II events (Doha, Eastbourne, and New Haven). Judging by how often the Russians play, that's not really domination when all they've manage to sack up are 3 Tier IIs and no Tier I (of course we are discussing outside the 3 Slams they've all won). Domination means winning outside the Slams as well. Last year, the Belgians won 2 Slams , the YEC, and 6 Tier I titles, and 6 Tier II titles. If you really think about it, the Belgians dominated the tour up to their respective injuries. They've played about 3 months before they got injured and they've already won a Slam, a Tier I, and 4 Tier IIs. And there's only 2 of them compared to the 6 Russians in the Top 20. I don't realyl think we can quantify their accomplishment as a domination of the tour unitl they start winning outside the slams. The Slams are important but they play so much and have very little to show for it when you compare their success to the success of the Williams and the Belgians in their respective dominant years.

Pureracket
Sep 27th, 2004, 08:59 PM
It won't be the "Russian" domination per se, but if Sveta can keep her confidence, I think she will definitely evolve as the Russian to beat.

tennisIlove09
Sep 27th, 2004, 09:01 PM
None of the Russians have separated themselves from the field like the Williams/Belgians did. That was REAL domination.
Well the difference is that there are only TWO Williams and only TWO Belgians (that were dominating).

The Russians are everywhere...there's just so many of them.

Vass22
Sep 27th, 2004, 10:15 PM
they've already proved their point (if there was such) by winning 3 Grand Slams out of 4. Now you're just picking out a term for whatthey are doing. I'm pretty happy to see them win even if it's not "domination".

fammmmedspin
Sep 27th, 2004, 10:34 PM
None of the Russians have separated themselves from the field like the Williams/Belgians did. That was REAL domination.
Well yes. but as Williams/Belgians are still around and the Russians are beating them and eachother that means the competition is better these days.

hotandspicey
Sep 28th, 2004, 12:50 AM
Maybe we should not view them as a group, but individually. The question then is.. Can Sveta dominate? Can Maria? Can Myskina? Can Dementieva??These are the only contenders that to me, possibly can!