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faste5683
Sep 5th, 2004, 11:40 AM
During the last two or three tournaments Vee has played in, I've been scrutinizing her forehand, trying to figure out what the problem is, and whether it's physical or mental (lack of confidence) in nature. What I've come up with is that her "unit" turn (the simple turning of the body) is fine, but when she begins to take her raquet back there is a delay in the process, a hitch, where the raquet actually begins to move foreward again before resuming the swing process. In other words the raquet (and arm and hand) swing back, stop, edges forward a bit, then begins to go back again. This is a complicated swing motion and would certainly cause a certain amount of inconsistency since Vee has to "find" the ball twice.


Check out your tapes or Tivo in slow motion and see what you think. Any of you agree with this assessment? Should I be a highly paid pro coach, or sent back to drying the courts during rain delays?

:wavey:

Pureracket
Sep 5th, 2004, 11:43 AM
faste,
You're absolutely right. I've been saying the same thing for years. Other than the "hitch" that Venus has in the motion, she also raises her head up when she hits it. This takes away from her power and forward motion.

villa
Sep 5th, 2004, 11:45 AM
So what happens when she's on the run? She seems to have no problems hitting her forehand when she's playing denfensive....Yesterday most of the forehands she missed where no pace-middle court balls....

faste5683
Sep 5th, 2004, 11:50 AM
So what happens when she's on the run? She seems to have no problems hitting her forehand when she's playing denfensive....Yesterday most of the forehands she missed where no pace-middle court balls....

Exactly! When she's on the run, stretching, there isn't a whole lot of time for raquet prep - you're are running and then swinging - there isn't any take back motion to speak of...

:wavey:

villa
Sep 5th, 2004, 11:54 AM
Exactly! When she's on the run, stretching, there isn't a whole lot of time for raquet prep - you're are running and then swinging - there isn't any take back motion to speak of...

:wavey:
Sorted! All she needs to do then is to run or stetch to every ball! Maybe she should move away from balls landing close to her than run back to them:lol:

SJW
Sep 5th, 2004, 12:13 PM
So what happens when she's on the run? She seems to have no problems hitting her forehand when she's playing denfensive....Yesterday most of the forehands she missed where no pace-middle court balls....

absolutely right. ;)

Venus' forehand is depressing right now. hopefully she hits the practice court and stays there today :)

BK4ever
Sep 6th, 2004, 02:06 AM
I saw Vee practiving her FH before the Chanda match and it looked awful...no accelaration...she was even getting frustrated, bending over in disgust everytime she missed one...which was ALOT...

she practiced again today and did tons of FH's...some one were amazing others looked worse than mine...I just hope she has an ON day against Davey because we all know Davey will be going after the FH

Venus Forever
Sep 6th, 2004, 02:14 AM
She also doesn't seem to move her feet a lot when she hits the shots, and as Tracy mentions, she pulls up too often.

Venus really drives the ball with that forehand when she keeps on balanced with it, where she's moving her feet and keeping her head and body in line with the ball.

She just gets lazy out there sometimes.

thelittlestelf
Sep 6th, 2004, 02:22 AM
Venus also doesn't always have her eye on the ball and doesn't freeze her head during the swing---this can be extremely helpful ESPECIALLY on service returns.

faste5683
Sep 6th, 2004, 02:26 AM
Sorted! All she needs to do then is to run or stetch to every ball! Maybe she should move away from balls landing close to her than run back to them:lol:

Correcting the hitch in her swing would be easier.

:wavey:

cool bird
Sep 6th, 2004, 10:11 AM
great post. Venus forehand always does look a little odd when she plays it.
I just wonderder when she has a wastern grip did she still have the same problem

sartrista7
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:20 PM
BUMP

There are still people out there who believe that there is nothing fundamentally flawed in Venus's game. This is an excellent analysis of what's wrong with her forehand.

darrinbaker00
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:26 PM
Correcting the hitch in her swing would be easier.

:wavey:
So would learning how to hit it with a closed stance..... :mad:

Don't tell anyone I said this, but John McEnroe was right when he said that Venus uses too much upper body and not enough lower body on her forehand and serve. The strongest muscles in the body are below the waist, not above.

gweeny
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:27 PM
During the last two or three tournaments Vee has played in, I've been scrutinizing her forehand, trying to figure out what the problem is, and whether it's physical or mental (lack of confidence) in nature. What I've come up with is that her "unit" turn (the simple turning of the body) is fine, but when she begins to take her raquet back there is a delay in the process, a hitch, where the raquet actually begins to move foreward again before resuming the swing process. In other words the raquet (and arm and hand) swing back, stop, edges forward a bit, then begins to go back again. This is a complicated swing motion and would certainly cause a certain amount of inconsistency since Vee has to "find" the ball twice.


Check out your tapes or Tivo in slow motion and see what you think. Any of you agree with this assessment? Should I be a highly paid pro coach, or sent back to drying the courts during rain delays?

:wavey:

I wish Venus will hire you. ;).

darrinbaker00
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:30 PM
BUMP

There are still people out there who believe that there is nothing fundamentally flawed in Venus's game. This is an excellent analysis of what's wrong with her forehand.
Not only that, but everyone knows it now. Venus will be seeing even more forehands in the future, and if she doesn't fix it, she'll not see any big trophies or big checks any time soon.

darrinbaker00
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:31 PM
I wish Venus will hire you. ;).
I don't think his wife will let him play with Venus..... ;)

Rocketta
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:35 PM
BUMP

There are still people out there who believe that there is nothing fundamentally flawed in Venus's game. This is an excellent analysis of what's wrong with her forehand.It's not that people don't think Venus' forehand is flawed it's that some people don't think it is the ultimate reason she isn't making it to slam finals...that's a big difference..

We all hope and wish she improves her forehand...:shrug: However, we disagree how that will be accomplished or if there is only one way to accomplish that.

starr
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:37 PM
Rocketta, do you accept the premise that evey player has to keep improving or fall behind?

If you do, what do you think Venus should work on to improve?

Aphrodite
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:39 PM
I dont think her forhand is that bad is just think she is very inconsistent with it, she makes a ton of winners but she also makes tons of errors, but against the power of todays players its tough when you always go for the winner, for the risk and Venus does that, she just needs to find a way to harness it and be more consistent with it, choose her shots where and in which way they work best.

BigTennisFan
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:41 PM
BUMP

There are still people out there who believe that there is nothing fundamentally flawed in Venus's game. This is an excellent analysis of what's wrong with her forehand.
Not only that, there are some who think that the only way to be a "true" Venus fan is to be blind and in denial about the weaknesses in her game. :confused:

Rocketta
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:41 PM
Rocketta, do you accept the premise that evey player has to keep improving or fall behind?

If you do, what do you think Venus should work on to improve?here's my opinion

It's not that people don't think Venus' forehand is flawed it's that some people don't think it is the ultimate reason she isn't making it to slam finals...that's a big difference..

We all hope and wish she improves her forehand...:shrug: However, we disagree how that will be accomplished or if there is only one way to accomplish that.I think confidence and an extended period without injury is her #1 cure...

Gogo123
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:42 PM
She should use this to help her with her forehand ;)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/hi/sa/tennis/skills/newsid_2061000/2061417.stm

starr
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:45 PM
here's my opinion

I think confidence and an extended period without injury is her #1 cure...
But what do you expect her to do to gain that confidence?

Also, how do you define "extended period?" If she doesn't play this fall, will that count as an "extended period without injury?"

sartrista7
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:45 PM
Ah... the injuries. Without opening another can of worms... I think the continuous injuries are another reason why Venus needs to get coaching and training from new sources. Injuries mostly stem from poor or unsuitable off-court training, and I'm sure a new regimen would prevent a lot of these aches from developing.

Confidence will come when Venus can trust her forehand again, which will only happen when it becomes a stable shot. It's a similar - if less extreme - situation to Dementieva and her serve.

starr
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:46 PM
Also, Rocketta, you didn't answer whether you agreed with the premise that every player has to keep improving or fall behind.

Rocketta
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:47 PM
Ah... the injuries. Without opening another can of worms... I think the continuous injuries are another reason why Venus needs to get coaching and training from new sources. Injuries mostly stem from poor or unsuitable off-court training, and I'm sure a new regimen would prevent a lot of these aches from developing.

Confidence will come when Venus can trust her forehand again, which will only happen when it becomes a stable shot. It's a similar - if less extreme - situation to Dementieva and her serve.
well that's one change I agree with and that's getting rid of Kerry Brooks...glorified ball girl. ;)

Rocketta
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:49 PM
Also, Rocketta, you didn't answer whether you agreed with the premise that every player has to keep improving or fall behind.
what is there to agree with? :shrug: Of course people need to continue to work on their game if they didn't they would just work on their fitness and go home. :confused:

Also, I forgot to add that Venus could improve her net game much more and incorporate it much more into her game.

Rocketta
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:51 PM
But what do you expect her to do to gain that confidence?

Also, how do you define "extended period?" If she doesn't play this fall, will that count as an "extended period without injury?"
what???? No if she doesn't play in the fall that's not playing an extended period without injuries???? We were talking about improving her tennis while playing. Right now she needs an extended period of playing tennis without being sidelined with injury. She has not experienced that this year.

sartrista7
Sep 6th, 2004, 11:53 PM
well that's one change I agree with and that's getting rid of Kerry Brooks...glorified ball girl. ;)

Don't know anything about Kerry Brooks, but if you're being paid to train a professional athlete and they end up as injury-wracked as Venus... you're not doing your job properly.

Focusing on the net game could be a decent alternative if Venus isn't willing to rework the forehand. If she's hitting volleys, at least she's not having to hit forehands.

harloo
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:03 AM
While usually I am very sad if either Venus or Serena loses early in a slam, this time I watched the whole match through and was not worried. I think Venus is making a surge back, and this is all a part of the process. The last game was vintage Venus and once she starts doing that consistently she won't lose so much.

I think Venus should get some outside coaching, because the forehand has always been a problem. In the past, even when Venus's forehand was erratic she still was able to depend on her mental fortitude. The injuries, and everything else has taken a toll on her.

Today we saw glimpses of vintage venus and I saw the desire in her eyes. As a fan that's all I can ask for. I hope she really decides to work on her flaws, because she is near slam winning form if you asked me.

faste5683
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:04 AM
I wish Venus will hire you. ;).

Me too, but the wife wouldn't let me... :rolleyes:

Right Darrin? ;)

:wavey:

Rocketta
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:05 AM
Don't know anything about Kerry Brooks, but if you're being paid to train a professional athlete and they end up as injury-wracked as Venus... you're not doing your job properly.

Focusing on the net game could be a decent alternative if Venus isn't willing to rework the forehand. If she's hitting volleys, at least she's not having to hit forehands.
If she comes in after getting a forehand in that will cut the # of forehands she has to hit for sure...with less pressure to hit forehands then I think she won't hit so many crazy ones...:unsure:

Rocketta
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:07 AM
Don't know anything about Kerry Brooks, but if you're being paid to train a professional athlete and they end up as injury-wracked as Venus... you're not doing your job properly.

Focusing on the net game could be a decent alternative if Venus isn't willing to rework the forehand. If she's hitting volleys, at least she's not having to hit forehands.
also, when watching them practice I hardly ever see Kerry do anything? She just picks up the balls...matter of fact when Richard is there I don't see her on court at all.

faste5683
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:12 AM
BUMP

There are still people out there who believe that there is nothing fundamentally flawed in Venus's game. This is an excellent analysis of what's wrong with her forehand.

Thank you.

:wavey:

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:29 AM
what???? No if she doesn't play in the fall that's not playing an extended period without injuries???? We were talking about improving her tennis while playing. Right now she needs an extended period of playing tennis without being sidelined with injury. She has not experienced that this year.

Thank you. Your first answer wasn't clear. I understand now that you mean the extended period without injury must be while she is playing competitively.

However, you did not define what an "extended period" is? Is it two months, three months? 6 months? It seems a rather vague parameter.

Also what is the longest period Venus has ever gone in her career without citing injury as a reason for not playing?

Rocketta
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:46 AM
Thank you. Your first answer wasn't clear. I understand now that you mean the extended period without injury must be while she is playing competitively.

However, you did not define what an "extended period" is? Is it two months, three months? 6 months? It seems a rather vague parameter.

Also what is the longest period Venus has ever gone in her career without citing injury as a reason for not playing?
more like 6 months without a serious injury that keeps her out of a scheduled tournament....not including tendinitis..

I don't know but I do know this year she hasn't played 3 tournaments without having an injury that hampered her preparedness to play competitive tennis...

This open is the first tournament since her clay run where she says she's healthy. I just hope she signs up for more tournaments since she is healthy.

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:53 AM
more like 6 months without a serious injury that keeps her out of a scheduled tournament....not including tendinitis..

I don't know but I do know this year she hasn't played 3 tournaments without having an injury that hampered her preparedness to play competitive tennis...

This open is the first tournament since her clay run where she says she's healthy. I just hope she signs up for more tournaments since she is healthy.
It seems to me that even when she was at the top of her game .... before Serena started beating her like a drum, The longest she went without citing injury as a reason for not playing was Wimbledon through the USO. And I think that only happened twice. There may have been one year when she went from RG through the USO. Other than that, Venus has always pulled out of about 1 in 3 or 1 in four tournaments because of an injury of some sort, and that with a rather light schedule as well.

starr
Sep 7th, 2004, 12:55 AM
I am anxious to see what Venus's schedule will be for the fall indoor season. She's not played in Europe for quite some time. I think playing in Europe will be an indicator of her desire.......... or perhaps her health.

CJ07
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:18 AM
Venus's Tentative Fall Schedule

Moscow
Zurich
Philadelphia
LA

Venus Forever
Sep 7th, 2004, 01:25 AM
Venus's Tentative Fall Schedule

Moscow
Zurich
Philadelphia
LA
If Venus wants to get to LA, she'll definitely have to work for it during the fall.

alfonsojose
Sep 7th, 2004, 03:00 AM
The Wilson H4 is too powerful and light for her. She should try a heavier raquect with more control