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View Full Version : You can get mad with Tracy if you want to, BUT


BigTennisFan
Sep 5th, 2004, 06:11 AM
she is absolutely right when she says that her "coaches" should get her some help with her forehand and 2nd serve. It's clear that they can't fix it. And it is a matter of technique.

Now maybe Venus doesn't want to do that work, but if she doesn't she's probably through winning the big ones. She can no longer count on her mental edge because her techique is flawed and it breaks down under pressure.

She is losing more to folks who she could beat on general principles before.

If she doesn't up her game considerably for Lindsay, she's gonna be out. I'd love for her to win the OPEN but she's got to play a lot better than she has lately.
If Lindsay plays like she's been playing recently.........

VW#1
Sep 5th, 2004, 06:46 AM
This critisim of venus never ceases to amaze me. The girl has not dropped a set since this tournament began. jhh and jen went 3 sets twice and you don't hear their fans critiszing they play like the damn fake fans of Venus what a bunch of phoney bitches.


AMEN.

BigTennisFan
Sep 5th, 2004, 04:12 PM
This critisim of venus never ceases to amaze me. The girl has not dropped a set since this tournament began. jhh and jen went 3 sets twice and you don't hear their fans critiszing they play like the damn fake fans of Venus what a bunch of phoney bitches.
What's really sad are the people who believe that in order to be a fan, you have to be blind to your favorite's flaws.

Oh well, I guess ignorance is bliss.

lizchris
Sep 5th, 2004, 04:19 PM
What's really sad are the people who believe that in order to be a fan, you have to be blind to your favorite's flaws.

Oh well, I guess ignorance is bliss.

We know what Venus' weakness are, but don't make it out to be like the other players don't have any flaws, especially Lindsay, who Venus is playing tomorrow. I didn't mention this in other threads because I didn't want to get beat up over this, but Lindsay wasn't playing like she had a lot of confidence in the first set mainly because I don't believe she thought Elena B. would give her that type of challenge. If Venus does the same tomorrow and Lindsay's games goes off, Venus could win rather easily, but that is a big IF.

Pureracket
Sep 5th, 2004, 04:24 PM
Tracey's discussion of Venus isn't as annoying as her "way-to-serious" discussion on everything else. Also, I'm going to jump off of a building the next time they show the contrast between her naturally brown eyebrows and her drugstore blonde hair.

Paneru
Sep 5th, 2004, 04:25 PM
This critisim of venus never ceases to amaze me. The girl has not dropped a set since this tournament began. jhh and jen went 3 sets twice and you don't hear their fans critiszing they play like the damn fake fans of Venus what a bunch of phoney bitches.

:worship: :worship: :worship:

I'm sure it's just an overlooked fact!

What's funny is that we constantly hear Venus hasn't
won a Slam in three years, and neither are invincible and yet
they are still constantly being critisized even though it's widely
acknowledged they aren't what they were and it's only said of them! :lol:

I say skip it and I'm just going to sit back and enjoy it!
Win or lose these girls have shown heart and the desire that
people always want to question! :)

lizchris
Sep 5th, 2004, 04:28 PM
:worship: :worship: :worship:

I'm sure it's just an overlooked fact!

What's funny is that we constantly hear Venus hasn't
won a Slam in three years, and neither are invincible and yet
they are still constantly being critisized even though it's widely
acknowledged they aren't what they were and it's only said of them! :lol:

I say skip it and I'm just going to sit back and enjoy it!
Win or lose these girls have shown heart and the desire that
people always want to question! :)

What we also fail to hear (espeically from the like of Tracy, Ted, Pam and Mary Joe) is that Lindsay, the favorite, has not won a Slam in almost five years and that she has not come close to a final in four years.

WF4EVER
Sep 5th, 2004, 04:30 PM
What's really sad are the people who believe that in order to be a fan, you have to be blind to your favorite's flaws.

Oh well, I guess ignorance is bliss.
I totally support your posts, BTF.

Liz, of course everyone has their flaws, but what concerns you more: the flaws your fave has or the flaws of her opponent. Be realistic, the performance of Davenport so far in this tournament wayyy outshines Venus' and frankly as a Venus fan I couldn't care less how well Lindsay is playing; I'm more concerned with how badly Venus is playing.

Because you haven't lost a set in three matches, compared to others doesn't mean you're playing well. venus may not have lost a set but she has failed to close out sets many times in those 'only' three matches. It's only the third round of a slam; based on the way she's struggled in the early rounds, I think it's safe to say that it doesn't get any easier from this point. The match that Venus 'does' lose a set may be the last match she plays.

BTW, anyone who thinks its a cardinal sin to point out their fave's flaws needs to take off the rose-coloured glasses.

PointBlank
Sep 5th, 2004, 04:36 PM
What we also fail to hear (espeically from the like of Tracy, Ted, Pam and Mary Joe) is that Lindsay, the favorite, has not won a Slam in almost five years and that she has not come close to a final in four years.
Like 2-3 months..Wimbledon SFs she was close to final ;)

Paneru
Sep 5th, 2004, 04:38 PM
BTW, anyone who thinks its a cardinal sin to point out their fave's flaws needs to take off the rose-coloured glasses.

The point is that these people and everyone say they aren't invincible
or what they used to be and then acted surprised and appauled when
they are playing as such! :cool:

And it's mainly pointed out with them
than anyone else and that's the truth!

No one disputes the flaws but, spread
around the critiscim because all the top seeds
have shown signs of struggle in their first couple of matches! :wavey:

gweeny
Sep 5th, 2004, 04:40 PM
I have to agree with BigTennisFan and WF4EVER. I would rather have some one criticize my flaws, so that I can IMPROVE them and get better. Than remain in a stalemate. Yes, it might hurt to be criticized, and your pride might be hurt, but when you find better results upon improving, the hurtful critiques will be long forgotten.

I don't understand why you have to compare other players results to validate that Venus is playing well. You don't exactly know how each player reacts to a match. So because Venus has won in straight sets translates into Venus will beat Lindsay. Or since Justine has lost a set, means that she can't beat Lindsay. Come on. It makes no sense.

Bright Red
Sep 5th, 2004, 04:42 PM
I would love to see Venus improve her forehand. Every time she hits one, I cringe for two reasons. First, I know she's struggled with tendinitis in her wrists and so it looks like it hurts when she hits. Second, I'm worried that the shot won't go in. For me, watching Venus is a very tense experience.

BigTennisFan
Sep 5th, 2004, 05:07 PM
I would love to see Venus improve her forehand. Every time she hits one, I cringe for two reasons. First, I know she's struggled with tendinitis in her wrists and so it looks like it hurts when she hits. Second, I'm worried that the shot won't go in. For me, watching Venus is a very tense experience.
I hear you BR. In fact when Venus was really dominating and beating the folks she loses to now, I seriously ;) considered suing her for the mental anguish she always put me through when playing her matches.

BigTennisFan
Sep 5th, 2004, 05:09 PM
What we also fail to hear (espeically from the like of Tracy, Ted, Pam and Mary Joe) is that Lindsay, the favorite, has not won a Slam in almost five years and that she has not come close to a final in four years.
Well they apparently tried to make up for it yesterday. They talked about Mary being five years between slams and ASV being five years between slams.

Paneru
Sep 5th, 2004, 05:12 PM
I don't understand why you have to compare other players results to validate that Venus is playing well. You don't exactly know how each player reacts to a match. So because Venus has won in straight sets translates into Venus will beat Lindsay. Or since Justine has lost a set, means that she can't beat Lindsay. Come on. It makes no sense.

Why not.

These commentators and such do it to both
sisters all the time!

Like I said, all the top ladies have struggled but, you
only ever hear them being critical of V&S even though
they aren't expected to win or the frontrunners.

Now, that is what makes no sense! :angel:

BigTennisFan
Sep 5th, 2004, 05:12 PM
We know what Venus' weakness are, but don't make it out to be like the other players don't have any flaws, especially Lindsay, who Venus is playing tomorrow. I didn't mention this in other threads because I didn't want to get beat up over this, but Lindsay wasn't playing like she had a lot of confidence in the first set mainly because I don't believe she thought Elena B. would give her that type of challenge. If Venus does the same tomorrow and Lindsay's games goes off, Venus could win rather easily, but that is a big IF.
My point is that I don't care about the other players' flaws. Let their fans worry about those. I care about Venus and I want her forehand to be a reliable weapon that doesn't break down.

I want her to fix her second serve so that she's not losing to the likes of Lisa Raymond et. al.

In other words, I want folks to FEAR Venus again. The other players can do what they want. I care about Venus.

lizchris
Sep 5th, 2004, 05:17 PM
Like 2-3 months..Wimbledon SFs she was close to final ;)

She was also close to the AO final in 2001, Wimbledon in 2001 and 2004 adn the USO final in 2002 and 2003. The fact is, she never got to those finals.

lizchris
Sep 5th, 2004, 05:23 PM
Well they apparently tried to make up for it yesterday. They talked about Mary being five years between slams and ASV being five years between slams.
I know, but Mary is not a contender in this tournament and ASV is retired.

RAA
Sep 5th, 2004, 05:30 PM
I would love to see Venus improve her forehand. Every time she hits one, I cringe for two reasons. First, I know she's struggled with tendinitis in her wrists and so it looks like it hurts when she hits. Second, I'm worried that the shot won't go in. For me, watching Venus is a very tense experience.
yes, I agree.. I don't really care who says what.. that forehand is breaking down way too often. combined with her second serve.. it will be tough for her to win a grand slam any time soon with those two shots that keep breaking down.. but I would LOVE to see her back in the winners circle..

lizchris
Sep 5th, 2004, 05:39 PM
My point is that I don't care about the other players' flaws. Let their fans worry about those. I care about Venus and I want her forehand to be a reliable weapon that doesn't break down.

I want her to fix her second serve so that she's not losing to the likes of Lisa Raymond et. al.

In other words, I want folks to FEAR Venus again. The other players can do what they want. I care about Venus.

Venus knows what she has to do to work on her flaws, but if she doesn't, then that's her problem.

BigTennisFan
Sep 5th, 2004, 05:45 PM
Venus knows what she has to do to work on her flaws, but if she doesn't, then that's her problem.

And your point? :confused:

Pamela Shriver
Sep 5th, 2004, 09:57 PM
You can get mad with Tracy if you want to,
OK!

:mad: :mad: TRACY SUCKZ! :mad: :mad:

Was that mad enough? Her pammentary suckz.

Cam'ron Giles
Sep 5th, 2004, 10:05 PM
I dont think the person who started this thread meant to insult Venus...It is a fact that she needs to fix that forehand and work on consistently getting first serves in and beef up the second serve...And I agree that at this point it's best that she gets outside help...who gives a shit what weakness other players have? (well I do hope they have many for our faves sake) but that is not what the thread is about...If you all care about Venus as much as you say you do...You would WANT her to get these defects in her game patced up...:rolleyes:

sartrista7
Sep 5th, 2004, 10:06 PM
BTW, anyone who thinks its a cardinal sin to point out their fave's flaws needs to take off the rose-coloured glasses.

Indeed.

It's threads like these which make it so obvious why there's so little proper tennis talk around here... every time you try to analyse anyone's game, their fans get all defensive and paranoid. It's like they only want people to be sheep, blindly cheering on faves and never thinking about the game. If you go to any of the fan forums, you'll find that all fan bases dissect their fave's games in minute detail... it's pretty sad when such an integral part of being a fan is stepped on so heavily by some idiots.

bandabou
Sep 5th, 2004, 10:43 PM
Nothing wrong with it....gotta improve. You canīt stand still in tennis....gotta keep improving. Venus has weaknesses and she knows what they are. Now itīs up to her to work on them so that she can become elite again.

"Topaz"
Sep 5th, 2004, 10:47 PM
she is absolutely right when she says that her "coaches" should get her some help with her forehand and 2nd serve. It's clear that they can't fix it. And it is a matter of technique.
...I'm with you on that (and Cam), as I've been trumpeting new coaching for Venus for quite some time.

Folks, don't confuse the issue by bringing in Lindsay's performance, Justine's or Jencap's. These are completely independent issues. What to focus on is just Venus and the techniques she needs to hone in order to reclaim her former position in the game.

Time is moving fast. Do you realize the young Venus we know is already 24? Just for perspective, let's assume, in women's tennis, a professional career goes from age 17 to 31, ie 14 years. Hence, Venus is right at the mid point: 17 + 14/2 = 24. There is no joking around anymore. Relevant matters must be taken care of, and now.

cool bird
Sep 5th, 2004, 11:19 PM
I have to say that it makes me laugh how sad some Venus fans are. The guy who wrote this post IS A VENUS FAN. and yet you are jumping all over him. This is why there are so many damn "williams sisters haters" cus they have stupid fans who go way over the top every time a point about Venus tennis game is put under the spot light

bobcat
Sep 5th, 2004, 11:26 PM
I think one of the problems is that Richard is only a part time coach and he's not with Venus for every tournament like most coaches. Even though they claim the mother is also a coach, I don't think she really helps with technique. Usually when V + S have problems with technique they talk to their dad.

Crazy_Fool
Sep 5th, 2004, 11:34 PM
Venus will always be elite.
Venus has not been elite this year, she hasn't even beaten a top 10 player, how is that elite?

It amazes me how some fans can be so blind. If these so called fans had bothered to watch Venus in these 3 matches alone, you can clearly see she is struggling badly with her forehand. Its not something that takes a lot of working out. If Venus is as blind as some of her fans(which i hope she isn't), she won't be winning a slam again.

Crazy_Fool
Sep 5th, 2004, 11:42 PM
As I said, Venus will always be an elite player.
Depends what you define as elite but certainly not now. Can you explain why you think she's elite at this moment in time and do you really think there is nothing in her game thats wrong?

cool bird
Sep 5th, 2004, 11:58 PM
Venus has not been elite this year, she hasn't even beaten a top 10 player, how is that elite?

It amazes me how some fans can be so blind. If these so called fans had bothered to watch Venus in these 3 matches alone, you can clearly see she is struggling badly with her forehand. Its not something that takes a lot of working out. If Venus is as blind as some of her fans(which i hope she isn't), she won't be winning a slam again.

:worship: :worship: They people you are dealing with it prob well past there bed time anyway :tape: :tape:

But Venus is as blind as some of her fans it seems. Just read her third round interview

BigTennisFan
Sep 6th, 2004, 12:00 AM
I dont think the person who started this thread meant to insult Venus...It is a fact that she needs to fix that forehand and work on consistently getting first serves in and beef up the second serve...And I agree that at this point it's best that she gets outside help...who gives a shit what weakness other players have? (well I do hope they have many for our faves sake) but that is not what the thread is about...If you all care about Venus as much as you say you do...You would WANT her to get these defects in her game patced up...:rolleyes:
You know? :worship:

Paneru
Sep 6th, 2004, 12:29 AM
I understand exactly what is going on with Venus' game and she understands also and believe me it will be corrected. She will always be an elite player you can say what you want or believe what you want.

I agree. :cool:

Tracy said she's been working hard
to get her game back up there.

bandabou
Sep 6th, 2004, 12:42 AM
Venus has not been elite this year, she hasn't even beaten a top 10 player, how is that elite?

It amazes me how some fans can be so blind. If these so called fans had bothered to watch Venus in these 3 matches alone, you can clearly see she is struggling badly with her forehand. Its not something that takes a lot of working out. If Venus is as blind as some of her fans(which i hope she isn't), she won't be winning a slam again.


sadly....I canīt say you are not right.

ico4498
Sep 6th, 2004, 12:57 AM
someone once asked Jon Wertheim, after V&S started winning slams, if the coaching questions could be laid to rest. his response was classic: no, we'll always wonder how much more successful they'd be with "proper" coaches.

for every valley V&S have faced in their respective careers, the coaching issue gets dusted off and trotted out like its new. its really silly since Venus and Serena have probably had more outside technical coaches than the average WTA player. aint trying to sugarcoat the flaws or dissuade discussion. but the coaching thing, on its relative merits, is pure nonsense.

wanna have a meaningful exchange? lets hear how yah change a natural but flawed shot and remain competitive. open up the issue of injuries and retooling ... don't jes' regurgitate Tracy's mouthings.