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Freewoman33
Sep 4th, 2004, 01:44 AM
Watch what happens when Roddick plays. And please don't give me that underdog bullshit. These motherfuckers will never appreciate the Williams Sisters. They will cheer for ALL the white Americans with a passion, regardless of who they're playing. I know I should be used to this by now, but just watching it makes me sick to my stomach.

Sorry, I had to vent.

Julian
Sep 4th, 2004, 01:49 AM
What are you talking about?? They are cheering for Serena from what I hear..

by the way I am sure that they want a 3rd set..this is entertainment after all ;)

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 01:49 AM
Watch what happens when Roddick plays. And please don't give me that underdog bullshit. These motherfuckers will never appreciate the Williams Sisters. They will cheer for ALL the white Americans with a passion, regardless of who they're playing. I know I should be used to this by now, but just watching it makes me sick to my stomach.

Sorry, I had to vent.

Sounds like they're cheering for Serena over Golovin right now.

Rocketta
Sep 4th, 2004, 01:58 AM
There seems to be a very large male cheering section for Serena..;)

Crazy Canuck
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:01 AM
Watch what happens when Roddick plays.

Yes, do. His opponent is going to be bery bery bery good someday and you should get a look at him now.

Oh... that's not what you meant?

My bad.

VeeNMaria4Eva
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:01 AM
Go Golovin!

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SERENA BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Freewoman33
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:01 AM
Yep, I noticed. They started from the get go.

Crazy Canuck
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:02 AM
So who has selective hearing here? Freewoman or the rest of you?

Freewoman33
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:03 AM
And they're cheering her double faults now.

Freewoman33
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:05 AM
So now they're booing because they thought Serena's ball wast long.

KoOlMaNsEaN
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:05 AM
they are?!

Crazy Canuck
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:07 AM
So who has selective hearing here? Freewoman or the rest of you?
*blink*

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:07 AM
And they're cheering her double faults now.

Yeah, and I guess they just messed up by cheering for Serena after she won that rally. Maybe they thought Golovin won the point? :rolleyes:

And now they're cheering for Serena for winning the match. I guess they're just confused. They should be booing. :rolleyes:

Freewoman33
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:07 AM
My point is, this is not something they'll do to Lindsay, Jennifer Monica, Andre, Andy and countless white American players. Absolutely not! I don't care how you want to cut it, racism is alive and well in tennis, especially when it comes to the sisters.

Kabibi
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:08 AM
Who cares? The same people you are calling racists are the same ones who can't have a tournament without Serena or Venus. Just savor the fans and the crowds who appreciate the sisters.

Rocketta
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:08 AM
yeah some people did start the whole whistle cause we can see the lines better than the line judge thing...:rolleyes:

Julian
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:09 AM
PLEASE bring these racism topics to rest...

GoDominique
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:09 AM
Poor Serena. :sad:

~ The Leopard ~
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:09 AM
I found a batch of racists under my bed last night. I had to turn the firehose on them to get them out of the house. Today I'm going to check under the rocks in the garden.

decemberlove
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:10 AM
Watch what happens when Roddick plays. And please don't give me that underdog bullshit. These motherfuckers will never appreciate the Williams Sisters. They will cheer for ALL the white Americans with a passion, regardless of who they're playing. I know I should be used to this by now, but just watching it makes me sick to my stomach.

Sorry, I had to vent.
umm, did you watch the roddick vs. jenkins match?

gweeny
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:10 AM
The US open fans have had some shady moments in regards to the Williams sisters. But so far in this US open, I thought they have been pretty good.

Rocketta
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:11 AM
:topic:

David Nalbandian looks nasty..:spit:

faste5683
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:11 AM
Hey, as long as the check don't bounce...

:wavey:

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:11 AM
My point is, this is not something they'll do to Lindsay, Jennifer Monica, Andre, Andy and countless white American players. Absolutely not! I don't care how you want to cut it, racism is alive and well in tennis, especially when it comes to the sisters.

Yeah, the crowd must be confused. :rolleyes:

Because they're mostly cheering for Serena after she won the match. :rolleyes:

Freewoman33
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:11 AM
I call it like I see it. If you see it differently, than so be it.

ktwtennis
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:11 AM
:rolleyes: @ everything being racist...

bandabou
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:12 AM
Hmmm......interesting.

GoDominique
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:13 AM
Are they still booing Serena? :sad:

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:14 AM
I call it like I see it. If you see it differently, than so be it.

Sounds like pretty much everyone here sees it differently than you. What does that tell you?

If the fans are so racist, why are they cheering for Serena for winning the match? Just trying to cover up? :rolleyes:

Foot_Fault
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:14 AM
My point is, this is not something they'll do to Lindsay, Jennifer Monica, Andre, Andy and countless white American players. Absolutely not! I don't care how you want to cut it, racism is alive and well in tennis, especially when it comes to the sisters.
You're fucking paranoid.... Kotex anyone?:rolleyes:

decemberlove
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:14 AM
I call it like I see it. If you see it differently, than so be it.
i guess you didn't see the roddick/jenkins match then.

maybe you should watch more tennis.

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:15 AM
i guess you didn't see the roddick/jenkins match then.

maybe you should watch more tennis.

I didn't see it either. What happened?

decemberlove
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:17 AM
I didn't see it either. What happened?
they were behind scoville 100%.

and he's black. shocker.

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:17 AM
I dont know if theyre racist, (Yes I do, they ARE) but Im sick of the bullshit from the American crowd against Venus and Serena. They almost fell over their asses whenever Jennifer got an iffy call against Douchevina, but here, Golovin gets the crowd support. Bullshit, why root in favor of YOUR COUNTRY'S best player?

BULLSHIT. No one is rooting in favor of Andy Roddicks opponent becaus ethey want 4 or 5 damn sets. They want Roddick in and out.

Most non-Williams American tennis fans are racists, for the most part.

mr dude
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:17 AM
lmao please get the fuck outta here with this bullshit. :lol:

those whitey's are not racist! lol

Ekkekko
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:18 AM
i think it's wrong to generalise the majority of the Americans.
Perhaps, there are some who are and some who aren't.
Freewoman33, you sound more like a manical prejudiced human than a sane one.

decemberlove
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:19 AM
I dont know if theyre racist, (Yes I do, they ARE) but Im sick of the bullshit from the American crowd against Venus and Serena. They almost fell over their asses whenever Jennifer got an iffy call against Douchevina, but here, Golovin gets the crowd support. Bullshit, why root in favor of YOUR COUNTRY'S best player?

BULLSHIT. No one is rooting in favor of Andy Roddicks opponent becaus ethey want 4 or 5 damn sets. They want Roddick in and out.

Most non-Williams American tennis fans are racists, for the most part.
oh, another person who didn't watch andy's round one match.

harloo
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:20 AM
Freewoman it's not that bad this match, but the telling match will be if Serena meets their white princess Jen in the qtrs. Watch.:lol:

Ekkekko
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:20 AM
I think this thread was started by a racist herself.

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:23 AM
they were behind scoville 100%.

and he's black. shocker.

Thanks.

So why won't any of these people acknowledge that match? Maybe because it disproves what they're saying? :rolleyes:

And, like I said, the crowd appeared to be cheering for Serena in the match, or was I the only one watching it?

Crazy Canuck
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:23 AM
:topic:

David Nalbandian looks nasty..:spit:
:sad:

It's true :sad:

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:23 AM
oh, another person who didn't watch andy's round one match.
Scoville is not a dominant player and it was obvious that Andy would win, so it was easy to cheer for him. I guess we will never know until we have another black player who is as dominant as Venus and Serena, and we'll see how American tennis crowds receive them. Its not Americans, Americans love Venus and Serena. Its those damn non-minority (white) American tennis fans.

faste5683
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:24 AM
Freewoman it's not that bad this match, but the telling match will be if Serena meets their white princess Jen in the qtrs. Watch.:lol:

Here's one white boy who be rooting for Serena over Jen.

:wavey:

Crazy Canuck
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:24 AM
they were behind scoville 100%.

and he's black. shocker.
Lies! They must think that Scoville has a white mother!

harloo
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:25 AM
Here's one white boy who be rooting for Serena over Jen.

:wavey:
Alright I'm sorry if I offended you. I meant some, not all.;) :D

esquímaux
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:25 AM
Watch what happens when Roddick plays. And please don't give me that underdog bullshit. These motherfuckers will never appreciate the Williams Sisters. They will cheer for ALL the white Americans with a passion, regardless of who they're playing. I know I should be used to this by now, but just watching it makes me sick to my stomach.

Sorry, I had to vent.
huh?

Crazy Canuck
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:25 AM
Scoville is not a dominant player and it was obvious that Andy would win, so it was easy to cheer for him. I guess we will never know until we have another black player who is as dominant as Venus and Serena, and we'll see how American tennis crowds receive them. Its not Americans, Americans love Venus and Serena. Its those damn non-minority (white) American tennis fans.
Yes. Damn those white tennis fans. Damn all of them to Hell.

Black Mamba.
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:25 AM
The crowd was great tonight, I think any crowd that doesn't cheer for every error or clearly boo one player is a good crowd. In fact any crowd that doesn't duplicate what happened to Vee and Serena at IW is a pretty good crowd, Serena even said the crowd was great tonight.

lizchris
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:25 AM
Maybe it is me, but I don't think the crowd was cheering for Golovin more than they were cheering for Serena. They cheered for both when they made great shots and won points off of those shots. However, they did whitsle more for shots Serena made that they thought were out, but all were confirmed in.

harloo
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:26 AM
Lies! They must think that Scoville has a white mother!
Cmon now, Scoville has not made it yet. The young lad barely could get a point against Andy's serve. The boys champion was never in the match.

decemberlove
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:26 AM
Scoville is not a dominant player and it was obvious that Andy would win, so it was easy to cheer for him. I guess we will never know until we have another black player who is as dominant as Venus and Serena, and we'll see how American tennis crowds receive them. Its not Americans, Americans love Venus and Serena. Its those damn non-minority (white) American tennis fans.
think about what racism is.

would a true racist root for a person that represents something they despise, even if they are clearly the underdog?

VeeNMaria4Eva
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:28 AM
Maybe it is me, but I don't think the crowd was cheering for Golovin more than they were cheering for Serena. They cheered for both when they made great shots and won points off of those shots. However, they did whitsle more for shots Serena made that they thought were out, but all were confirmed in.

freewoman, even lizchris is not on your side, give up :o

decemberlove
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:28 AM
Lies! They must think that Scoville has a white mother!
:lol:

true! there was one white woman in his box... :eek:

Black Mamba.
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:28 AM
Some of yall think way to many things are racist. When you truly experience racism that is something you don;t forget and what I saw tonight was no where near that.

mr dude
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:29 AM
Some of yall think way to many things are racist. When you truly experience racism that is something you don;t forget and what I saw tonight was no where near that.
so true. some of these dumbasses don't even know what real racism is.

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:30 AM
Maybe it is me, but I don't think the crowd was cheering for Golovin more than they were cheering for Serena. They cheered for both when they made great shots and won points off of those shots. However, they did whitsle more for shots Serena made that they thought were out, but all were confirmed in.
I think we saw differently, because I was on the phone with my mother, and we both noticed the overwhelming support for Golovin, in the form of cheering on Serena's errors and double faults. Yeah, the American crowd isnt overly rude, so they are gonna respectfully cheer awesome shots from Serena, but why is it that every single close shot off Serena's racquet that went in her favor was jeered? Why? Isnt she the fucking American? You dont hear that shit in Jen's and Andy's matches.

Crazy Canuck
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:30 AM
Cmon now, Scoville has not made it yet. The young lad barely could get a point against Andy's serve. The boys champion was never in the match.
Golovin hasn't exactly made it either. I mean, she has, but she wasn't expected to win this match. It was closer than Andy-Jenkings, but I really don't see the difference here.

I am getting this match on tape delay though, so we'll see.

Oh, nice. Get broken the first game, Nadal. By Roddick and his magnificant returns. That'll show him :rolleyes:

Crazy Canuck
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:31 AM
:lol:

true! there was one white woman in his box... :eek:
:eek:

I KNEW it!

faste5683
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:31 AM
The crowd was great tonight, I think any crowd that doesn't cheer for every error or clearly boo one player is a good crowd. In fact any crowd that doesn't duplicate what happened to Vee and Serena at IW is a pretty good crowd, Serena even said the crowd was great tonight.

Yes, exactly. It was a GREAT crowd and an exiting, well fought match. The only negativity I felt tonight was from Tracy and Ted; but that's only because I can't stand incessant, mindless chatter.

:wavey:

Freewoman33
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:31 AM
Please, Jenkins didn't have a chance. It was pure pitty.

Listen, you guys are getting your panties and briefs all knotted up. I'm not refering to any one person on this board. However, if the hat fits, wear it.

I'm not looking for dialogue on this issue, from anyone. This is just based on my observation. Plain and simple.

I'm not afraid to say what I feel, even if no one else agrees with me.

Ekkekko
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:32 AM
i don't think most of them know what racism is....

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:32 AM
think about what racism is.

would a true racist root for a person that represents something they despise, even if they are clearly the underdog?
Racism has many forms.

I dont mean racism as in "I hate black people, so Im not gonna root for them". I mean racism as in, "I would rather see the young white girl beat the big black girl/boy, despite the fact that shes of a different nationality".

harloo
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:36 AM
Yes, exactly. It was a GREAT crowd and an exiting, well fought match. The only negativity I felt tonight was from Tracy and Ted; but that's only because I can't stand incessant, mindless chatter.

:wavey:
Yes Traci and Ted were the worst tonight, the crowd wasn't bad at all really.

Ekkekko
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:38 AM
Racism has many forms.

I dont mean racism as in "I hate black people, so Im not gonna root for them". I mean racism as in, "I would rather see the young white girl beat the big black girl/boy, despite the fact that shes of a different nationality".
Trineosereno, perhaps you should try using the word prejudiced...

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:40 AM
Trineosereno, perhaps you should try using the word prejudiced...
http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/notworthy.gifYes, thats the word! I couldnt think of it!

Ekkekko
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:41 AM
http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/notworthy.gifYes, thats the word! I couldnt think of it!
Coz the word racist seemed to be misinterpreted..

Volcana
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:45 AM
Watch what happens when Roddick plays. And please don't give me that underdog bullshit. These motherfuckers will never appreciate the Williams Sisters. They will cheer for ALL the white Americans with a passion, regardless of who they're playing. I know I should be used to this by now, but just watching it makes me sick to my stomach.

Sorry, I had to vent.Yes America is a very racist country, in that race plays a very large, though largely unspoken, part in everything that happens here. That said, there ARE other factors that determine who fans root for. MALE African Americans are cheered quite a bit more than female African Americans. Different fans, I suppose.

If anything, i suppose you might keep an eye on Venus' matches, since she'll likely be the lower ranked player in all but one of any more matches she plays here. No doubt there will be resounding cheers, since, as we've heard for the past couple yeras, crowds are always cheering the underdog. If Venus played Sharapova, for example, you'd only expect all the cheers for being Venus, since she's the underdof AND the American.

lizchris
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:47 AM
I think we saw differently, because I was on the phone with my mother, and we both noticed the overwhelming support for Golovin, in the form of cheering on Serena's errors and double faults. Yeah, the American crowd isnt overly rude, so they are gonna respectfully cheer awesome shots from Serena, but why is it that every single close shot off Serena's racquet that went in her favor was jeered? Why? Isnt she the fucking American? You dont hear that shit in Jen's and Andy's matches.

The USO crowd has never been overly supportive of the sisters. In fact, the only match where I can remember they were was seven years ago, when Venus won her controversial semifinal against Irinia Spirela. Plus, keep in mind that many of the people in the crowd come from neighboring Long Island, possibly one of the most racially segregated counties in the nation, not to mention New York state.

esquímaux
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:48 AM
Que horible! Roddick's serve is demoralizing.

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:49 AM
Racism has many forms.

I dont mean racism as in "I hate black people, so Im not gonna root for them". I mean racism as in, "I would rather see the young white girl beat the big black girl/boy, despite the fact that shes of a different nationality".

So it's never okay to root for a foreigner?

Many of you only root for Serena because she's black. Not because she's American.

If Randfriedy (or WTF her name is) was playing Capriati, a lot of you Williams fans would be pulling against Capriati (the American). Yet, in that case, it would probably be okay in your opinion. :rolleyes: Isn't that a bit of a double standard?

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:49 AM
The USO crowd has never been overly supportive of the sisters. In fact, the only match where I can remember they were was seven years ago, when Venus won her controversial semifinal against Irinia Spirela. Plus, keep in mind that many of the people in the crowd come from neighboring Long Island, possibly one of the most racially segregated counties in the nation, not to mention New York state.
Dont forget the working class fans from Jersey and Staten Island.

~ The Leopard ~
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:51 AM
I found one! *flattens it with a shovel*

lizchris
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:52 AM
Dont forget the working class fans from Jersey and Staten Island.
I didn't forget about them, but those area are not close to Flushing Meadows. I also didn't forget about the Westchester County people, who are suppsoed to be upper class.

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:52 AM
So it's never okay to root for a foreigner?

Many of you only root for Serena because she's black. Not because she's American.

If Randfriedy (or WTF her name is) was playing Capriati, a lot of you Williams fans would be pulling against Capriati (the American). Yet, in that case, it would probably be okay to you. :rolleyes:
Wow, 2 generalizations in 1 post. Impressive.

I want to know what Williams fan roots for V&S only because theyre black. Most V&S fans on this board arent even black, fool!

Oh wait, thats your third generalization....does it count if its impliedhttp://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/tape.gif

decemberlove
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:55 AM
Racism has many forms.

I dont mean racism as in "I hate black people, so Im not gonna root for them". I mean racism as in, "I would rather see the young white girl beat the big black girl/boy, despite the fact that shes of a different nationality".
everyone has their prejudices. that doesn't make them racist. total misunderstanding of the word racism in this thread. doesn't shock me.

and what does the working class of jersey have to do with anything?

decemberlove
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:56 AM
Most non-Williams American tennis fans are racists, for the most part.
oh look, a generalization.

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:56 AM
Wow, 2 generalizations in 1 post. Impressive.

I want to know what Williams fan roots for V&S only because theyre black. Most V&S fans on this board arent even black, fool!

Oh wait, thats your third generalization....does it count if its impliedhttp://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/tape.gif

What generalizations? List 'em out. C'mon, it was 3, right? I can't wait to hear this.

Freewoman33
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:01 AM
Yes America is a very racist country, in that race plays a very large, though largely unspoken, part in everything that happens here. That said, there ARE other factors that determine who fans root for. MALE African Americans are cheered quite a bit more than female African Americans. Different fans, I suppose.

If anything, i suppose you might keep an eye on Venus' matches, since she'll likely be the lower ranked player in all but one of any more matches she plays here. No doubt there will be resounding cheers, since, as we've heard for the past couple yeras, crowds are always cheering the underdog. If Venus played Sharapova, for example, you'd only expect all the cheers for being Venus, since she's the underdof AND the American.

Volcana, good of you to be so optimistic. I'm sure you know not to hold your breath.

moon
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:02 AM
I don't think the crowd tonight was too bad (I've seen worse). But I did notice some extra jeering whenever Serena had a ball land on or near the line.

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:02 AM
What generalizations? List 'em out. C'mon, it was 3, right? I can't wait to hear this.
1.) Many Williams fans only root for the Williamses because theyre black.
a.) Implication - Most Williams sisters fans are black, or at least white liberals, no?

2.) Most Williams fans dislike Jennifer Capriati/ want her to lose.

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:04 AM
everyone has their prejudices. that doesn't make them racist. total misunderstanding of the word racism in this thread. doesn't shock me.

and what does the working class of jersey have to do with anything?
Ok yeah, prejudice is a better word, I admit. And yes everyone has prejudices, but everyone does not have racial prejudices. And prejudices are Ok, because everyone has them? http://wtaworld.com/ubb/confused.gif

WtaTour4Ever
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:05 AM
1.) Many Williams fans only root for the Williamses because theyre black.
a.) Implication - Most Williams sisters fans are black, or at least white liberals, no?

2.) Most Williams fans dislike Jennifer Capriati/ want her to lose.

1) Wrong
2) Wayyyy Wrong

Veritas
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:07 AM
Ok yeah, prejudice is a better word, I admit.

Of course.

And yes everyone has prejudices, but everyone does not have racial prejudices.

Indeed.

And prejudices are Ok, because everyone has them?

No. Prejudice beliefs are not okay. Why do you think there are stereotypes in the first place?

It is understandable though.

Do you have any prejudice beliefs?

faste5683
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:13 AM
I found one! *flattens it with a shovel*

:haha:

I can now leave this thread and feel good about it.

:kiss:

:wavey:

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:16 AM
1.) Many Williams fans only root for the Williamses because theyre black.
a.) Implication - Most Williams sisters fans are black, or at least white liberals, no?

2.) Most Williams fans dislike Jennifer Capriati/ want her to lose.

First off, read my post again:

So it's never okay to root for a foreigner?

Many of you only root for Serena because she's black. Not because she's American.

If Randfriedy (or WTF her name is) was playing Capriati, a lot of you Williams fans would be pulling against Capriati (the American). Yet, in that case, it would probably be okay to you.

1) Disprove it. "Many" is a relative term. Honestly, from what I've seen on this board, there are "many" who seem to pull for the black players first. I NEVER SAID "MOST". There's a big difference.

1a) Where do you get that from? I never said that, or implied it. I never said "most". You did. But you would have to admit that "many" WS fans ARE black.

2) My point really had nothing to do with Capriati. She's just the first white American female tennis player that I could think of. My point is that "a lot of you Williams fans" (my exact words) would pull for a black foreigner over a white American. Yet, you cry foul when it happens the other way around.

htm
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:19 AM
Watch what happens when Roddick plays. And please don't give me that underdog bullshit. These motherfuckers will never appreciate the Williams Sisters. They will cheer for ALL the white Americans with a passion, regardless of who they're playing. I know I should be used to this by now, but just watching it makes me sick to my stomach.

Sorry, I had to vent.

Hello! you just now figured that out. Andy does everything the will sisters do but more. The only difference is that he is WHITE. People on the board or on this board and in America I should say won't admit it.

Kabibi
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:23 AM
2) My point really had nothing to do with Capriati. She's just the first white American female tennis player that I could think of. My point is that "a lot of you Williams fans" (my exact words) would pull for a black foreigner over a white American. Yet, you cry foul when it happens the other way around.Your point is faulty. First off, why even make mention of a foreign black player? Why not mention Chanda Rubin, an American. What's the difference between Chanda and Jennifer? Why the player from another country?

And another faulty argument is that many Williams fans root for Serena and Venus only because the Sisters are black. What about those fans who don't root for Chanda? For Shenay, etc?

And when a fan who likes Venus and Serena roots for Lindsay, Mary, Kim, why are they rooting for them?

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:27 AM
First off, read my post again:



1) Disprove it. "Many" is a relative term. Honestly, from what I've seen on this board, there are "many" who seem to pull for the black players first. I NEVER SAID "MOST". There's a big difference.
What do you mean, disprove it?! You havent even offered evidence for your original claim. There are only a few black players on tour, so are you telling me that you meticulously scope every single thread about a black player and look for Williams fans? Thats the only way you could make that judgment. When do you ever see Williams fans pushing for all 5 black women in the top 150? C'mon, thats just your baseless assumption.

1a) Where do you get that from? I never said that, or implied it. I never said "most". You did. But you would have to admit that "many" WS fans ARE black.
How can you tell that they are black, this is a message board. Oh, let me guess, their bad grammar? http://wtaworld.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

"Many" tennis fans are black, whats your point? Your assumption is that WS have proportionately more black fans than any other player out there, and that is just wrong. Again, another baseless assumption.

2) My point really had nothing to do with Capriati. She's just the first white American female tennis player that I could think of. My point is that "a lot of you Williams fans" (my exact words) would pull for a black foreigner over a white American. Yet, you cry foul when it happens the other way around.
How can you make those judgements about a lot of Williams fans off of a purely hypothetical assumption!!!!!!!!!!!!! The fact that Radriantefy (sp) is "black" does not mean anything to "a lot of us Williams fans".

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:36 AM
Your point is faulty. First off, why even make mention of a foreign black player? Why not mention Chanda Rubin, an American. What's the difference between Chanda and Jennifer? Why the player from another country?

Because people are saying that the "racist" white American crowd will pull for a foreign (non-American) white girl before an American black girl. Why not compare apples to apples?

And another faulty argument is that many Williams fans root for Serena and Venus only because the Sisters are black. What about those fans who don't root for Chanda? For Shenay, etc?

And when a fan who likes Venus and Serena roots for Lindsay, Mary, Kim, why are they rooting for them?

I never said "most", and I never said "all". However, there are "many" that will only pull for them because they're black though. Or should I rephrase it as "black and dominant"?

Just as some WS fans claim that people dislike WS because they're "black and dominant", I think there are some WS fans who only like them because they're "black and dominant". Same goes with Rubin. Some WS fans think that whites like players like Rubin because she's not dominant (not a threat), and on the same token I think there are some WS fans that don't like Rubin because she's not dominant (not a threat).

Freewoman33
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:37 AM
Hello! you just now figured that out. Andy does everything the will sisters do but more. The only difference is that he is WHITE. People on the board or on this board and in America I should say won't admit it.

No. It's just that sometimes, the damn thing is so blatant, I have to vent about it.

SharapovaFan16
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:42 AM
maybe american fans don't like the way in which the williams sisters handle themselves. stop turning it into a race issue. roddick is all heart, and is a great guy. serena and venus mostly serena has known to be a dick, and some fans don't like that.

Freewoman33
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:45 AM
maybe american fans don't like the way in which the williams sisters handle themselves. stop turning it into a race issue. roddick is all heart, and is a great guy. serena and venus mostly serena has known to be a dick, and some fans don't like that.

Is that the best you can come with?

Kabibi
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:46 AM
maybe american fans don't like the way in which the williams sisters handle themselves. stop turning it into a race issue. roddick is all heart, and is a great guy. serena and venus mostly serena has known to be a dick, and some fans don't like that.
So many Americans like a guy who cusses and disparages a chair umpire?

It's nice to know what some American crowds respect.

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:47 AM
Is that the best you can come with?
http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/haha.gifhttp://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/haha.gifhttp://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/notworthy.gif

moby
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:49 AM
yeah, americans are racist
why post a thread if you know that no one is going to change your opinion, and if you know you aren't going to change any one's?

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:50 AM
maybe american fans don't like the way in which the williams sisters handle themselves. stop turning it into a race issue. roddick is all heart, and is a great guy. serena and venus mostly serena has known to be a dick, and some fans don't like that.
Yeah, I mean, all the charity work that Serena does really works against her.http://wtaworld.com/ubb/smile.gif

ZAK
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:52 AM
Crowd is cheering for Nadal at the moment

kosmikgroove
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:00 AM
roddick is all heart, and is a great guy. serena and venus mostly serena has known to be a dick, and some fans don't like that.

this SHOULD read: Roddick is all lip, and a jackass on court. serena and venus mostly Serena has been known to be very gracious in defeat (Wimbeldon final this year ring a bell anyone?) and some fans of other players (like fans of Sharapova) don't like that.

Ted of Teds Tennis
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:10 AM
Yes, there are racist US fans. Freewoman33 is clearly one of them, as she apparenly thinks you should only root for black players. At least, that's the perception I get from her posts.

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:12 AM
this SHOULD read: Roddick is all lip, and a jackass on court. serena and venus mostly Serena has been known to be very gracious in defeat (Wimbeldon final this year ring a bell anyone?) and some fans of other players (like fans of Sharapova) don't like that.

Yeah, I agree with you on Roddick. But you're wrong about WS. Venus has always been gracious as far as I know. But Serena? C'mon. Maybe she was gracious at Wimbledon THIS YEAR, but before that she never gave credit to her opponent...it was always one excuse after the other, not to mention nasty looks to opponents. If she starts/continues to be more gracious, maybe more people will start to like her. But Serena has not been "known to be very gracious in defeat". You must be joking.

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:13 AM
Yes, there are racist US fans. Freewoman33 is clearly one of them, as she apparenly thinks you should only root for black players. At least, that's the perception I get from her posts.

That's what I gathered, too.

I bet she'd pull for Radriantefy (sp) over Capriati/Davenport, although it's the same kinda thing that she was complaining about.

moby
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:15 AM
Crowd is cheering for Nadal at the moment
what?
andy must have been working on his tan :rolleyes:

ashwu
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:17 AM
wrong example but the conclusion is right :)

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:18 AM
Cheesestix, couldnt think of a reply?http://wtaworld.com/ubb/tongue.gif

Ted of Teds Tennis
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:29 AM
So many Americans like a guy who cusses and disparages a chair umpire?

It's nice to know what some American crowds respect.

I can't speak for the rest of the posters here, but I can't stand Roddick. He's one of the few players I actively hate (toilet-mouthed cow Capriati being another, and I don't particulary care for Maria the Sexpot either since it's her sex appeal that's being marketed more than her tennis ability). And I can't stand the verbal fellatio that's passed of as Patrick McEnroe's color commentary in A-Dick's matches.

As for the Williams sisters, I find more and more it's not a case of disliking them. (I think Richard is as bad as any other tennis parent out there, and my taste in outfits is such that I find Serena's -- but not Venus' -- outfits ghastly. But those are different stories.) But I do find that disproportionately compared to other players, there are fans of the Williamses who have a gigantic chip on their shoulder and look for any faintest bit of anything less than complete adulation that "proves" that everybody "hates" the Williams sisters. There are times that it gets so bad that I'd like to see Venus or Serena lose just because I know how angry some of the posters here are going to be. :)

Bamafan717
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:33 AM
Defina American. America is very unique.

Kabibi
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:36 AM
I can't speak for the rest of the posters here, but I can't stand Roddick. He's one of the few players I actively hate (toilet-mouthed cow Capriati being another, and I don't particulary care for Maria the Sexpot either since it's her sex appeal that's being marketed more than her tennis ability). And I can't stand the verbal fellatio that's passed of as Patrick McEnroe's color commentary in A-Dick's matches.

As for the Williams sisters, I find more and more it's not a case of disliking them. (I think Richard is as bad as any other tennis parent out there, and my taste in outfits is such that I find Serena's -- but not Venus' -- outfits ghastly. But those are different stories.) But I do find that disproportionately compared to other players, there are fans of the Williamses who have a gigantic chip on their shoulder and look for any faintest bit of anything less than complete adulation that "proves" that everybody "hates" the Williams sisters. There are times that it gets so bad that I'd like to see Venus or Serena lose just because I know how angry some of the posters here are going to be. :)
Yes, this last argument has been stated at this board before and as much as some would like it to reflect the "some" Williams fans, it also reflects on thos "some" fans who argue against or dislike the "some" posters and then push that onto the player. If that's how some people deal, that's their issues that can't be helped. In a way I do understand it because there are fans of certain players who I dislike.

I don't look for anybody to like Venus or Serena. I already like both players and I like the people behind the tennis. No one liking or disliking Venus or Serena is going to have any power to change that. In the end, people will like and dislike who they like and for whatever reasons they choose.

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:43 AM
As for the Williams sisters, I find more and more it's not a case of disliking them. (I think Richard is as bad as any other tennis parent out there, and my taste in outfits is such that I find Serena's -- but not Venus' -- outfits ghastly. But those are different stories.) But I do find that disproportionately compared to other players, there are fans of the Williamses who have a gigantic chip on their shoulder and look for any faintest bit of anything less than complete adulation that "proves" that everybody "hates" the Williams sisters. There are times that it gets so bad that I'd like to see Venus or Serena lose just because I know how angry some of the posters here are going to be. :)

:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

SerialKiller#69
Sep 4th, 2004, 06:04 AM
they were behind scoville 100%.

and he's black. shocker.

ugh. i can's stand racism in tennis. ;)

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 06:11 AM
ugh. i can's stand racism in tennis. ;)
I cant stand when people come into threads cosigning on others opinions, completely disregarding every other argument against said opinion in the thread.

tennisiscool
Sep 4th, 2004, 06:12 AM
:yawn:

I Love Sharapova
Sep 4th, 2004, 06:13 AM
FREEWOMAN,YOUR SHAMEFUL THREAD SHOULD BE DELETED!! WHAT GARBAGE!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :fiery:

Butchwax
Sep 4th, 2004, 06:25 AM
You have to face the facts. There are a lot of Americans who like the Williams sisters but there are a great deal more who do not. My self included. Personally I think those out fits look ridiculous and disrespect the game. To me they resemble a cross between hooker outfits and gang clothing and have no place on the tennis court. Having said that I’m sure most African Americans think they look great. That’s just the long and short of it. What can you do?

G1Player2
Sep 4th, 2004, 07:26 AM
Yeah, I agree with you on Roddick. But you're wrong about WS. Venus has always been gracious as far as I know. But Serena? C'mon. Maybe she was gracious at Wimbledon THIS YEAR, but before that she never gave credit to her opponent...it was always one excuse after the other, not to mention nasty looks to opponents. If she starts/continues to be more gracious, maybe more people will start to like her. But Serena has not been "known to be very gracious in defeat". You must be joking.
"I wasn't sure how Serena would react after that loss, but Serena Williams was the epitome of grace and class after that absolute atrocious treatment she recieved in that semifinal. There's not too many players who would have showed that much class and courage after a match like that."

-Mary Carillo after 2003 French Open semifinal


"She congratulated me and gave me a couple kisses at the net."

-Jennifer Capriati after defeating Serena Williams at 2004 French Open quarterfinal.


"Serena said great job at the net and gave me a pat on the back. I'm sure it was hard from her being defending champion and all."

-Lindsay Davenport after defeating Serena Williams in 2000 US Open.


"I think she took the loss great and I thought it was nice for her to congratulate me after the trophy ceremony. She was very talkative today even before the match. But that's just her you know.

Lindsay Davenport after defeating Serena Williams at 2004 JP Morgan Chase.


"I don't remember exactly what she said but she gave me some words of encouragement and congratulated me."

Patty Schnyder after defeating Serena Williams in 2002 FCC.

Jakeev
Sep 4th, 2004, 08:06 AM
More paranoid dillusions AGAIN. Ugh when does that bullshit stop. So why did people not cheer on Martina when she was the top of her game? How bout Steffi Graf? Billie Jean King?

But I guess cause if a crowd doesn't cheer on Serena to the hilt it is because she is black.

I am sure if Serena's opponent had been Angie Haynes today, this thread would not have even been written.

I Love Sharapova
Sep 4th, 2004, 08:10 AM
More paranoid dillusions AGAIN. Ugh when does that bullshit stop. So why did people not cheer on Martina when she was the top of her game? How bout Steffi Graf? Billie Jean King?

But I guess cause if a crowd doesn't cheer on Serena to the hilt it is because she is black.

I am sure if Serena's opponent had been Angie Haynes today, this thread would not have even been written.
Jakeev,it's just Anti-American bullshit. This discussion board is riddled with it. :fiery: :fiery:

Jakeev
Sep 4th, 2004, 08:17 AM
Jakeev,it's just Anti-American bullshit. This discussion board is riddled with it. :fiery: :fiery:
Huh? If I am reading some of the posts correctly, people are accusing white American crowds in New York of being racist againt Serena because they are cheering a young frenchwoman on instead of her.

What does this have to do with being Anti-American?

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 08:27 AM
More paranoid dillusions AGAIN. Ugh when does that bullshit stop. So why did people not cheer on Martina when she was the top of her game? How bout Steffi Graf? Billie Jean King?

But I guess cause if a crowd doesn't cheer on Serena to the hilt it is because she is black.

I am sure if Serena's opponent had been Angie Haynes today, this thread would not have even been written.
I thought BJK wasnt cheered because she was a rumored lesbian, and Navratilova wasnt cheered because she was a lesbian from a communist country. They were minorities basically, like Serena.

Plus, Serena is far from the top of her game, so you cant say thats why shes not being cheered for.

I Love Sharapova
Sep 4th, 2004, 08:29 AM
Huh? If I am reading some of the posts correctly, people are accusing white American crowds in New York of being racist againt Serena because they are cheering a young frenchwoman on instead of her.

What does this have to do with being Anti-American?
I am talking about FreeWoman's basic premise. She says that Americans are racist. It is another slap in the face to Americans. I think this Shameful Thread should be deleted.FreeWoman should be banned.

Jakeev
Sep 4th, 2004, 08:41 AM
I thought BJK wasnt cheered because she was a rumored lesbian, and Navratilova wasnt cheered because she was a lesbian from a communist country. They were minorities basically, like Serena.

Plus, Serena is far from the top of her game, so you cant say thats why shes not being cheered for.

All I am saying is that it's time to start blaming the world for not liking Serena based on racism. I find this thread especially overwrought, because New York did what it usually did and rooted for the underdog.

But they still gave Serena her props. You know I really think if Serena read these posts she would just roll her eyes.

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 08:48 AM
All I am saying is that it's time to start blaming the world for not liking Serena based on racism. I find this thread especially overwrought, because New York did what it usually did and rooted for the underdog.

But they still gave Serena her props. You know I really think if Serena read these posts she would just roll her eyes.
Funny, I actually think Serena would validate exactly what I'm saying. She has experienced the bite of racism more than I ever have, so I would definitely take her word for it though, whether she agreed with me or you.

But why didnt New York root for the underdog when Jen faltered against Chladkova and Douchevina?

Please, someone, give me a reason why the American crowd treats their best American player (on her best day, of course) this way, esp. when shes struggling a bit, other than prejudice?

Jakeev
Sep 4th, 2004, 08:54 AM
Funny, I actually think Serena would validate exactly what I'm saying. She has experienced the bite of racism more than I ever have, so I would definitely take her word for it though, whether she agreed with me or you.

But why didnt New York root for the underdog when Jen faltered against Chladkova and Douchevina?

Please, someone, give me a reason why the American crowd treats their best American player (on her best day, of course) this way, esp. when shes struggling a bit, other than prejudice?
Oh and before it drives me completly bonkers, who were u before?

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 08:55 AM
Oh and before it drives me completly bonkers, who were u before? What do u mean?

Ekkekko
Sep 4th, 2004, 08:59 AM
What do u mean?
I think he meant your previous nick...

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 09:02 AM
I think he meant your previous nick...
Ohhh, I was JustIncredible, Serena fan extraordinaire.

DunkMachine
Sep 4th, 2004, 09:17 AM
This thread was uncalled for...

bis2806
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:26 AM
That's coz most americans have the perception that the Williamses are arrogant and i don't blame them :)

DUNEMAN
Sep 4th, 2004, 12:02 PM
You have to face the facts. There are a lot of Americans who like the Williams sisters but there are a great deal more who do not. My self included. Personally I think those out fits look ridiculous and disrespect the game. To me they resemble a cross between hooker outfits and gang clothing and have no place on the tennis court. Having said that I’m sure most African Americans think they look great. That’s just the long and short of it. What can you do?

:fiery: :mad: I was there in the 200 section, and let me tell you, we yelled and screamed along with another bunch of beaded Rena-maniacs in the 300 section, so I think( not sure but) fear of our powerful, passionate support for Rena, might have kept things cool :fiery: :mad: By the way way, Rena looked right at us and thanked us for REPRISENTIN :bounce: Go Go Go Serena Go :worship:

Frooty_Bazooty
Sep 4th, 2004, 12:15 PM
I found a batch of racists under my bed last night. I had to turn the firehose on them to get them out of the house. Today I'm going to check under the rocks in the garden.

touché :o

bandabou
Sep 4th, 2004, 12:19 PM
What can NOT be denied is that the sisters are more suspectible to critics than most other players. Only about them has been said that they are boring, they are bad for tennis, they are this and that....when Justine vs Kim was the daily plate of tennis, no word about boring or bad for tennis.

When Serena lost to Maria, that was the greatest thing to happen to tennis. When Lindsay lost to the same Maria: Oooh, another chance lost....poor lindsay, she deserved another major.

when they were out with injuries people actually HOPED that they would retire from tennis. Donīt ever hear people hope for that with any other player.

mykarma
Sep 4th, 2004, 01:39 PM
1.) Many Williams fans only root for the Williamses because theyre black.
a.) Implication - Most Williams sisters fans are black, or at least white liberals, no?

2.) Most Williams fans dislike Jennifer Capriati/ want her to lose.I'm a Williams fan who also likes Jen. Use to like Henin until the French incident.

Freewoman33
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:08 PM
But why didnt New York root for the underdog when Jen faltered against Chladkova and Douchevina?

Please, someone, give me a reason why the American crowd treats their best American player (on her best day, of course) this way, esp. when shes struggling a bit, other than prejudice?

Good point.

Please, none of those lame excuses about outfits and attitudes. Serena could've worn a Nun's attire last night, and it wouldn't have made a difference. I'm not even going to mention attitudes.

Monica_Rules
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:17 PM
I hate it when people lump all people from a certain country/race in one loop.

Maybe some americans are racist but not ALL americans.

Plus another thing when Angela Haynes was playing the crowd was really behind her.

the cat
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:21 PM
Miss Love made the most pertinent point in this thread. :) And that was about how the American crowd rooted for Scoville Jenkins over Andy Roddick.

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:23 PM
Please, none of those lame excuses about outfits and attitudes.

Comments like that just show that you'll never get it. :rolleyes:

Some of you WS fans have this "WS = Perfect, Can do no wrong, what's not to like?" attitude. You refuse to accept the fact that anyone might dislike your precious WS, for any reason. :rolleyes: Any time someone does explain it to you, you just respond with comments like that...."oh, that's bs", "try again", "i ain't buying that", "what's the real reason", etc, etc. The only reason that you want (sadly enough) to hear (or will accept) is "racism". :rolleyes: Who are you to deem their reasons valid or invalid???

That reminds me of the episode of Seinfeld where George wanted to break up with his girlfriend. He told her he wanted to break up, and she asked why. So he told her. But she wouldn't allow the breakup since she didn't think his reasons were valid. As if it's her place to say that. LOL.

TonyP
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:24 PM
The fact that this thread even exists is an indication of the immaturity and the hyposcracy of some Williams fans. While constantly whining about stereotyping, this thread brands an entire nation of 280 million people as racist based on the actions of tennis fans in one stadium watching one match. And even there, it is not that the fans were shouting racial slurs at Serena. The fans just were not cheering loud enough for Serena to please some Williams fans.

So, of course, the race card is immediately dragged out.

By the logic of this thread, all black Americans are either criminals or welfare cheats or both.

It is this kind of thread that has made this board such a nasty place.

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:26 PM
Plus another thing when Angela Haynes was playing the crowd was really behind her.

But in response to that, some people will say something (I'm guessing) like "Well, Angela Haynes isn't dominating", "those were pity cheers", "she's not a threat to the white tennis establishment", etc. :rolleyes:

mykarma
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:44 PM
Hello! you just now figured that out. Andy does everything the will sisters do but more. The only difference is that he is WHITE. People on the board or on this board and in America I should say won't admit it.They can't admit it because a lot of them can't recognize it. Racism is something that most Americans feel doesn't exist unless someone is actually wearing a sheet, a skin head, belong to the nazi party, or hears someone calling someone black a ******. Even when that happens, I've heard lame excuses like "oh, blacks use that word so it's ok". You'd just as well forget trying to explain it on this board, you're not going to change anyone's mind. They've not lived it, so they don't understand it. Even white's that have black friends only understand to a certain point.

Something I find interesting is, the same reasons a lot of people give for not liking the sisters, love Sharapova. The fist pumping when they make a good shot, the grunting, the things their father's does or says, etc. Sharapova, grunts are louder, her fist pumps are more pronouced, her father is disrespectful to players during matches. Applauding and jumping up when they make errors, yelling, etc. You know the rest of his routine. If Richard Williams acted like Sharapova's father does during a match, there would be an out pour of negative threads. The talking heads would have a field day. They'd have clips on all the major television stations, and they'd be questioning the sisters about him in their interviews. What do you think the difference might be?

Doraemon
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:46 PM
We are racists too. We buy domestic stuff only.

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 02:51 PM
Something I find interesting is, the same reasons a lot of people give for not liking the sisters, love Sharapova. The fist pumping when they make a good shot, the grunting, the things their father's does or says, etc. Sharapova, grunts are louder, her fist pumps are more pronouced, her father is disrespectful to players during matches. Applauding and jumping up when they make errors, yelling, etc. You know the rest of his routine. If Richard Williams acted like Sharapova's father does during a match, there would be an out pour of negative threads. The talking heads would have a field day. They'd have clips on all the major television stations, and they'd be questioning the sisters about him in their interviews. What do you think the difference might be?

Well, so why do a lot of WS fans hate Sharapova? She does a lot of the same things that the WS do.

Martian Willow
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:01 PM
Here's one white boy who be rooting for Serena over Jen.

:wavey:

...that's nice...now go and find us a black poster who'll be rooting for Jen over Serena... :)

mykarma
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:04 PM
You have to face the facts. There are a lot of Americans who like the Williams sisters but there are a great deal more who do not. My self included. Personally I think those out fits look ridiculous and disrespect the game. To me they resemble a cross between hooker outfits and gang clothing and have no place on the tennis court. Having said that I’m sure most African Americans think they look great. That’s just the long and short of it. What can you do?
You're a real joke. Williams sisters also includes Venus whose very conservative in her dress. Whether you like what Serena wears or not is your right, but what makes you the expert on what most African Americans like and most whites dislike. :tape:

Experimentee
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:54 PM
You are right, i notice that the crowd hardly ever cheers for Serena or Venus, even when they're in the USA. And the other week they were cheering agaisnt Mashona in doubles even though she was playing two non-Americans :rolleyes:

TimBo
Sep 4th, 2004, 03:55 PM
The crowed was cheering for Angela Haynes and Ive never in all my years of watching tennis have seen a crowed boo or not cheer for Chanda Rubin.
I dont think many of you remember, most of the time when Lori McNeil or Zina Garrison played, the crowds always cheered for them. They were fun to watch.

Bright Red
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:01 PM
I can't bring myself to read all 4 pages of this thread, but here's my take on it.

You can't deny that both Serena and Roddick have very large American fan bases. Both get huge amounts of support and cheers during and after the match.

The difference is that Serena also has plenty of trolls in the audience who applaud her every error (last night against Golovin, this one guy shouted "YEAAAAAAAAH" every single time Serena made an error). Also, Serena drew a large number of negative whistling when a shot was correctly called in her favor.

If I had to guess, I'd 95% of the crowd was mainly positive, and 1% were Neanderthals.

mykarma
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:09 PM
Well, so why do a lot of WS fans hate Sharapova? She does a lot of the same things that the WS do.Typical response from you. :rolleyes: If you can't put holes in a post that you disagree with, you ask another question, trying to find fault with that one. Contrary to popular belief, we all don't look alike, think alike, feel alike, or know each other. Where do you get your information from? I for one don't hate Sharapova. She played a great match against Serena and only time will tell how great she really is.

tennischick
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:10 PM
I found a batch of racists under my bed last night. I had to turn the firehose on them to get them out of the house. Today I'm going to check under the rocks in the garden.LOL!!!! priceless :worship: :worship:

mykarma
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:13 PM
The crowed was cheering for Angela Haynes and Ive never in all my years of watching tennis have seen a crowed boo or not cheer for Chanda Rubin.
I dont think many of you remember, most of the time when Lori McNeil or Zina Garrison played, the crowds always cheered for them. They were fun to watch.I read an article after Zina retired where she talked about all of the hate mail she received.

TimBo
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:14 PM
I read an article after Zina retired where she talked about all of the hate mail she received.


umm didnt realize that, but when I watched the crowds were supportative. I remember when Lori beat Steffi at Wimby, the whole stadium was behind her. I dont guess I paid much attention coz I always cheered for them coz they were American.

*Karen*
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:14 PM
They're not racist. They always cheer for the Williams sisters. They never boo them or anything like that. The chances are all the people watching have different faviorite players. If you're not a Williams fan you don't cheer that loud for them. It's just a normal thing to support the underdog. Not racism at all. They cheered louder for Jenkins than they did for Roddick. When Venus or Serena come up against a higher ranked player such as Justine or Momo the crowd will cheer really loud for Serena and Venus.

bandabou
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:32 PM
When Venus or Serena come up against a higher ranked player such as Justine or Momo the crowd will cheer really loud for Serena and Venus.

Someone hasnīt watched the match at iwī01 between Serena and Kim.

And neither has he/she watched the SF between Momo and Venus. Both matches were in the u.s....and guess who the crowd was cheering for.

Itīs cool though. The Americans didnīt appreciate them.....when they both are gone and it is russian after russian that wins everything, then them americans will wish they appreciated the years the sisters gave them.

*Karen*
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:40 PM
Maybe you have a point then Bandabou. I can't understand why American's won't cheer for them. I would cheer for them over most players except my faves. I still don't think it's racism.

WorldWar24
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:40 PM
Someone hasnīt watched the match at iwī01 between Serena and Kim.

And neither has he/she watched the SF between Momo and Venus. Both matches were in the u.s....and guess who the crowd was cheering for.

Itīs cool though. The Americans didnīt appreciate them.....when they both are gone and it is russian after russian that wins everything, then them americans will wish they appreciated the years the sisters gave them.

It's quite sad isn't it?

I think Serena and Venus get a lot of support, but it's nowhere near the madness surrounding Roddick's matches :mad: Last year's semifinal against Nalbandian went way beyond the limits of cheering for your contryman! At a point a guy in the crowd shouted OUT on a shot from Nalbandian, and then David missed the next shot, and the umpire did nothing. And the crowd was delighted :rolleyes:

bandabou
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:47 PM
It's quite sad isn't it?

I think Serena and Venus get a lot of support, but it's nowhere near the madness surrounding Roddick's matches :mad: Last year's semifinal against Nalbandian went way beyond the limits of cheering for your contryman! At a point a guy in the crowd shouted OUT on a shot from Nalbandian, and then David missed the next shot, and the umpire did nothing. And the crowd was delighted :rolleyes:


tjaaa....and yesterday when SERENA the AMERICAN hit a ball close to the lines against Golovin the FRENCH, the crowd jeered against Serena. Itīs amazing really...it ainīt racism...but what is it then?!

VeeNMaria4Eva
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:48 PM
Maybe some people need to buy a dictionary and look at the word "racist". It's just a fucking tennis match and people can cheer for who they want.

mykarma
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:58 PM
umm didnt realize that, but when I watched the crowds were supportative. I remember when Lori beat Steffi at Wimby, the whole stadium was behind her. I dont guess I paid much attention coz I always cheered for them coz they were American.
The same thing happen to Hank Aaron, Bill Russell, and a lot of other successful African American's. Most African Americans keep things like that to themselves and if they complain and can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt they're looked at as using the race card or get response like they do on this board. I;m sure you realize that most racist don't announce that they're racist. These days they wear suits.

WorldWar24
Sep 4th, 2004, 04:59 PM
tjaaa....and yesterday when SERENA the AMERICAN hit a ball close to the lines against Golovin the FRENCH, the crowd jeered against Serena. Itīs amazing really...it ainīt racism...but what is it then?!

Well, maybe it is racism sometimes. But I think most of the times, people just follow and have a certain affinity for players who remind them of themselves, their personality, many different things. It's just natural and it explains why americans support that Roddick dude. I personally think he's a moron, but he thinks he's great and acts like a total asshole (though he's not a bad person, off court), just like americans themselves and how they like it, in general, so they have a certain affinity ;) If people could focus more on tennis it would be nice

mykarma
Sep 4th, 2004, 05:02 PM
Maybe some people need to buy a dictionary and look at the word "racist". It's just a fucking tennis match and people can cheer for who they want.Absolutely.

Jakeev
Sep 4th, 2004, 05:20 PM
Good point.

Please, none of those lame excuses about outfits and attitudes. Serena could've worn a Nun's attire last night, and it wouldn't have made a difference. I'm not even going to mention attitudes.
Your skirting the issue, AGAIN. Attitude has everything to do with why Venus and Serena may not be totally respected as tennis players.

When they first came on tour, they had the "we are gonna kick all of your asses" kind of attitude and it did not help that Richard was the inventor of all the negative crap.

Freewoman33, you try to come off as an empowered, intelligent woman but sometimes when I read crap from you like this I really begin to wonder how paranoid you mind is when it comes to racism.

Do people not like Serena because she is Black? OF course. But I am sure the Russians are not liked because they are Russian. I'm even sure there are tennis fans that don't like Japanese players. Same with German players.

But before you start accusing everyone of being racist toward her, I would strongly suggest you look deep down and figure out the true reasons why she is not totally respected.

bandabou
Sep 4th, 2004, 05:31 PM
The sisters surely must be the only players on tour that are being held responsibe for actions of their dad. Itīs amazing really... Richard say this or that, letīs boo Serena or Venus for it. Richard does this, letīs blame Serena or Venus.

If it is that easy, why isnīt this tactic used against the Kims, the Marias of this world?! Or do people wanna make us believe that itīs only Richard who has said stuff?!

*JR*
Sep 4th, 2004, 06:30 PM
FREEWOMAN,YOUR SHAMEFUL THREAD SHOULD BE DELETED!! WHAT GARBAGE!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :fiery:Sorry, but as one who thoroughly detests "racewars" among posters here (like during Carson '04) This Thread is a "rough but serious debate". And Willow, re. "find a black fan who roots for Jen ova Serena":

After years of being denied the Facilities For all but a handful of blacks to become really good @ tennis (or golf) of course They'll Tend To root for other blacks. (What I call "the Jackie Robinson factor").

WorldWar24
Sep 4th, 2004, 07:05 PM
The sisters surely must be the only players on tour that are being held responsibe for actions of their dad. Itīs amazing really... Richard say this or that, letīs boo Serena or Venus for it. Richard does this, letīs blame Serena or Venus.

If it is that easy, why isnīt this tactic used against the Kims, the Marias of this world?! Or do people wanna make us believe that itīs only Richard who has said stuff?!

I have never found anything Richard Williams has said to be controversial. He's a nice dude ;)

And I don't see anyone blaming the sisters because of him! Why?

bandabou
Sep 4th, 2004, 07:17 PM
I have never found anything Richard Williams has said to be controversial. He's a nice dude ;)

And I don't see anyone blaming the sisters because of him! Why?


Most be the only person...

mykarma
Sep 4th, 2004, 07:39 PM
Sorry, but as one who thoroughly detests "racewars" among posters here (like during Carson '04) This Thread is a "rough but serious debate". And Willow, re. "find a black fan who roots for Jen ova Serena":

After years of being denied the Facilities For all but a handful of blacks to become really good @ tennis (or golf) of course They'll Tend To root for other blacks. (What I call "the Jackie Robinson factor").
Thank you. I don't know why others find it so difficult to understand that.

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 09:37 PM
Typical response from you. :rolleyes: If you can't put holes in a post that you disagree with, you ask another question, trying to find fault with that one. Contrary to popular belief, we all don't look alike, think alike, feel alike, or know each other. Where do you get your information from? I for one don't hate Sharapova. She played a great match against Serena and only time will tell how great she really is.

:confused:

I "put holes" in that post by asking the question.

And who said "all"? Oh yeah, YOU DID!

I didn't say "all" or "most", I said "a lot", and that's the truth. A lot of WS fans hate Sharapova.

Maybe you should read the quote that I was responding to:

Something I find interesting is, the same reasons a lot of people give for not liking the sisters, love Sharapova.

All I did was point out that it works the other way around, too. Why is that?

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:05 PM
Wow, Cheesestix, you really gave up!

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:06 PM
Wow, Cheesestix, you really gave up!

:confused:

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:08 PM
:confused:
You and Jakeev just decided to stop addressing my arguments and go jump on lesser ones.

faste5683
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:09 PM
Look, I'm from Atlanta and I know all about Scoville Jenkins. I've got to tell y'all a little secret: the reason eveybody cheers for him (black, white, asian, latino etc.) is not because of his skin color. It's because his name is SCOVILLE. We just figure the kid needs a break.

:wavey:

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:11 PM
You and Jakeev just decided to stop addressing my arguments and go jump on lesser ones.

I don't feel like going around in circles with you right now. Cool your jets. You didn't win anything. :rolleyes:

bandabou
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:12 PM
Look, I'm from Atlanta and I know all about Scoville Jenkins. I've got to tell y'all a little secret: the reason eveybody cheers for him (black, white, asian, latino etc.) is not because of his skin color. It's because his name is SCOVILLE. We just figure the kid needs a break.

:wavey:


:haha: :rolls:

SJW
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:17 PM
There seems to be a very large male cheering section for Serena..;)

hehehe true. i don't know why you're ranting freewoman...Serena especially has got a lot of support in her first 3 rounds :confused: i heard the crowd getting loud for her and this one guy especially made me laugh with his calls of "let's go Serena, let's go!" every freakin minute :lol:

sorry for being late on the discussion :o

*JR*
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:19 PM
sorry for being late on the discussion :oYes, I'm carios where you were. :p

SJW
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:25 PM
Yeah, I agree with you on Roddick. But you're wrong about WS. Venus has always been gracious as far as I know. But Serena? C'mon. Maybe she was gracious at Wimbledon THIS YEAR, but before that she never gave credit to her opponent...it was always one excuse after the other, not to mention nasty looks to opponents. If she starts/continues to be more gracious, maybe more people will start to like her. But Serena has not been "known to be very gracious in defeat". You must be joking.

godddddddddd you speak a whole load of bull. Venus is more popular with the fans. granted. accepted. but there is a reason why 90% of the players prefer Serena ;)

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:28 PM
...that's nice...now go and find us a black poster who'll be rooting for Jen over Serena... :)
I know many. I wont say any names, but they all belong to the Serena-hating contingent of Venus fans.
http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/wavey.gif

SJW
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:30 PM
btw i'd like to add my two cents

1) i don't like the WS because they are black, i love the Williams Sisters because they are brilliant
2) i am not American, and i'm not a racist tennis fan. so your theory is flawed trinesereno
3) some people DO cheer against the WS because of their colour, but i don't think it's just that. it's colour combined with their (previous) dominance, and their unapologetic nature of not caring whether they're accepted or not
4) the crowd was for Serena last night no doubt. i was wondering if i should start a "Is the US Open anti-french?" thread :)
5) re. fast, leave Scovilles name alone dammit. im sure the boy has had a tough life thanks to that already :p
6) i root for white players over black players. hmmmmmm :)

SJW
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:32 PM
...that's nice...now go and find us a black poster who'll be rooting for Jen over Serena... :)

Joy and all the other Venus-only fans :dance:......

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:36 PM
godddddddddd you speak a whole load of bull. Venus is more popular with the fans. granted. accepted. but there is a reason why 90% of the players prefer Serena ;)

Get off it. You say that shit because of who I am and not what I said.

Besides, what you said is pure bullshit. Where did I "speak a whole load of bull"?????

What I said is the truth. Venus is more gracious in defeat than Serena is. Venus is more accepted by the fans (especially non-Williams fans), isn't she? And BTW, weren't we talking about the fans??? Who said anything about the players??? And where do you get this "90%" of the players stuff from anyway??? Any proof to back that statement up, or did you just pull that number out of your ass???

And I still stand by this statement: For anyone to say that Serena is "known to be very gracious in defeat" is a freaking joke. (BTW, Serena saying something like "I played 1000 notches below my normal level" will forever be etched into many tennis fans' minds. That's a prime example of her "gracious" nature. :rolleyes: )

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:40 PM
Get off it. You say that shit because of who I am and not what I said.

Besides, what you said is pure bullshit. Where did I "speak a whole load of bull"?????

What I said is the truth. Venus is more gracious in defeat than Serena is. Venus is more accepted by the fans (especially non-Williams fans), isn't she? And BTW, weren't we talking about the fans??? Who said anything about the players??? And where do you get this "90%" of the players stuff from anyway??? Any proof to back that statement up, or did you just pull that number out of your ass???
Oh please, come off it. The only place where Venus is gracious is at net when she shakes her opponents hand after a loss, she puts a smile on her face. But when speaking of her opponents and their games, she gives them NO MORE CREDIT than Serena does.

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:43 PM
Oh please, come off it. The only place where Venus is gracious is at net when she shakes her opponents hand after a loss, she puts a smile on her face. But when speaking of her opponents and their games, she gives them NO MORE CREDIT than Serena does.

So you're saying they're both ungracious???

SJW
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:47 PM
Get off it. You say that shit because of who I am and not what I said.

Besides, what you said is pure bullshit. Where did I "speak a whole load of bull"?????

What I said is the truth. Venus is more gracious in defeat than Serena is. Venus is more accepted by the fans (especially non-Williams fans), isn't she? And BTW, weren't we talking about the fans??? Who said anything about the players??? And where do you get this "90%" of the players stuff from anyway??? Any proof to back that statement up, or did you just pull that number out of your ass???

And I still stand by this statement: For anyone to say that Serena is "known to be very gracious in defeat" is a freaking joke. (BTW, Serena saying something like "I played 1000 notches below my normal level" will forever be etched into many tennis fans' minds. That's a prime example of her "gracious" nature. :rolleyes: )

maybe you should read in context. maybe you should read Serena's interviews full stop, and not just media quotes :shrug: Venus is Venus and she's a very charming individual, but don't act like Serena acts bad in defeat. because she doesn't. the only time Serena has acted poorly after a loss since the Jen streak in 2001 is against Henin in France and that's understandable :)

re. 90% of players, it's true. because i've heard a lot of players comment on how Serena is more likely to talk to them than Venus.

re. the fans, TENNIS fans yes you're right, because for the moment Serena is the more...um...successful of the two. but back in 00 and 01, tennis fans didn't like Venus because of her domination and felt sorry for Serena.

as for casual fans, over here Serena gets more love. :)

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:48 PM
So you're saying they're both ungracious???
Only if you're trying to argue that the reason why Serena is disliked by many in the USO crowd is because Serena is somehow more ungracious than anyone else.

bandabou
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:48 PM
Get off it. You say that shit because of who I am and not what I said.

Besides, what you said is pure bullshit. Where did I "speak a whole load of bull"?????

What I said is the truth. Venus is more gracious in defeat than Serena is. Venus is more accepted by the fans (especially non-Williams fans), isn't she? And BTW, weren't we talking about the fans??? Who said anything about the players??? And where do you get this "90%" of the players stuff from anyway??? Any proof to back that statement up, or did you just pull that number out of your ass???

And I still stand by this statement: For anyone to say that Serena is "known to be very gracious in defeat" is a freaking joke. (BTW, Serena saying something like "I played 1000 notches below my normal level" will forever be etched into many tennis fans' minds. That's a prime example of her "gracious" nature. :rolleyes: )


So from this I can gather that you donīt like people who donīt give credit....no matter who it is that doesnīt give credit?! O.k...cool.

BlackMoriah
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:48 PM
From watching all the primetime matches I can conclude that:

1. Crowd was always cheering for the underdog I don't care how you see it.
2. I am black, can't stand Serena, passive towards Venus, likes Chanda, loves Scoville :hearts: and the rest of the Americans I absolutely loathes.
3. Not an American but I don't think that when a fan root against they Williams that they are racist.






4. Hopes Roger Federer win USO

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:52 PM
So from this I can gather that you donīt like people who donīt give credit....no matter who it is that doesnīt give credit?! O.k...cool.

Yeah, and show me where I've said anything to the contrary.

Now go dig up some Maria (I choose her because you're so freaking obsessed with her...not that I'm a fan) interview where she didn't give credit, so that I can say "Yeah, that's ungracious." :rolleyes:

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:53 PM
From watching all the primetime matches I can conclude that:

1. Crowd was always cheering for the underdog I don't care how you see it.
2. I am black, can't stand Serena, passive towards Venus, likes Chanda, loves Scoville :hearts: and the rest of the Americans I absolutely loathes.
3. Not an American but I don't think that when a fan root against they Williams that they are racist.






4. Hopes Roger Federer win USO
1.) You obviously missed the daytime matches that J-Cap had, struggling against Douchevina and Chladkova.
2.) Kewl! I like diversity!
3.) No one has ever suggested that everyone who doesnt like the Williamses are racists. I have no idea where that idea comes from?
4.) Me too.

*JR*
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:57 PM
I guess I spoke too soon in saying This Thread was a serious debate (not a slanging match). So lets get right down to why Venus is more popular than Serena With White fans:

She no longer dominates (as Serena Still can, as @ Key Biscayne).

She's a quieter, more reserved person. (Funny, Jen can be as outspoken as she desires).

She doesn't play with the same ultra-aggressive style.

She doesn't wear such risque' outfits (funny, nobody bashes Ms. Ova-exposed-though-she-never-won-a-tournament for that).

In other words, Venus is Accorded A "grudging respect" for not seeming "too black".

bandabou
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:57 PM
Yeah, and show me where I've said anything to the contrary.

Now go dig up some Maria (I choose her because you're so freaking obsessed with her...not that I'm a fan) interview where she didn't give credit, so that I can say "Yeah, that's ungracious." :rolleyes:


Iīm not arguing with you...that is a reason to not liking Serena or any other player.

As long as it consistent, itīs aight.

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:58 PM
1.) You obviously missed the daytime matches that J-Cap had, struggling against Douchevina and Chladkova.
2.) Kewl! I like diversity!
3.) No one has ever suggested that everyone who doesnt like the Williamses are racists. I have no idea where that idea comes from?
4.) Me too.

3) Maybe from the fact that ANY TIME a non-Williams fan says that they don't like them, and gives their reasons, it's always met with "that's bs", "all players do that", "you can do better than that", "I ain't buyin' that", "try again", etc, etc (implying that the only reason they can/will "accept" is "racism")?????? Maybe from that????

Certain people do that! So to say "No one has ever...." is completely false. Because, in fact, plenty of people do that.

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 10:58 PM
The only thing I can think of to dislike the Williamses in particular is either because they're black, or you dont girls with long weave. Other than that, the arrogance/ungraciousness excuses are bullshit, because V&S are no different in that respect to the majority of the WTA Tour. I wasnt trying to make a snipe at Venus earlier, I promise. http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/angel.gif

Black Mamba.
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:03 PM
Personally I can care less how the fans in the crowd act, if the cheer or if they boo if people do or don't like Vee or Serena. At the end of the day all that matters to me are wins, as long as they and my other favorities win I don't care if the crowd is or isn't racist. In sports the players or teams who win a lot or have won a lot in the past usually aren't well liked, but to those teams and players that doesn't matter as long as they win.

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:05 PM
3) Maybe from the fact that ANY TIME a non-Williams fan says that they don't like them, and gives their reasons, it's always met with "that's bs", "all players do that", "you can do better than that", "I ain't buyin' that", "try again", etc, etc (implying that the only reason they can/will "accept" is "racism")?????? Maybe from that????

Certain people do that! So to say "No one has ever...." is completely false. Because, in fact, plenty of people do that. Because, how can you hate the Williamses in particular for one reason, but love their colleagues who have the same general attitude. I just really want a reason in particular why one would dislike the Williamses in particular, and not dislike the majority of the WTA Tour. Other than the fact that they are black.

SJW
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:08 PM
............i'm not racist, i love Chanda Rubin!

sorry, just think this should be in every race debate :)

*JR*
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:09 PM
Because, how can you hate the Williamses in particular for one reason, but love their colleagues who have the same general attitude. I just really want a reason in particular why one would dislike the Williamses in particular, and not dislike the majority of the WTA Tour. Other than the fact that they are black.Best post in this whole thread! :yeah:

Cariaoke
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:10 PM
............i'm not racist, i love Chanda Rubin!

sorry, just think this should be in every race debate :)dumbass! but you forgot I love James Blake

:lol: :haha: :tape: *dead*

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:11 PM
So lets get right down to why Venus is more popular than Serena With White fans:

....

She's a quieter, more reserved person. (Funny, Jen can be as outspoken as she desires).

You're implying that all white tennis fans are fans of Capriati???? That's a laugh!

She doesn't wear such risque' outfits (funny, nobody bashes Ms. Ova-exposed-though-she-never-won-a-tournament for that).

I can't speak for everyone else, but I don't have anything against "risque." But "tacky" is another story. I don't care for Serena's outfits, especially when half of her ass is hanging out of the bottom of it. I don't care for this "biker" look either.

But hey, to each his own. It's just my opinion. But you brought up the topic.

Funny you mention Kournikova though. Because there are plenty of black fans that criticized the hell out of her. Why do you not ask the same question of black non-Anna and non-Maria fans???

I had nothing against Anna's outfits. It's a matter of personal preference, though. Or maybe it's just because we're both white. :rolleyes:

In other words, Venus is Accorded A "grudging respect" for not seeming "too black".

:rolleyes:

Kabezya
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:13 PM
I guess I spoke too soon in saying This Thread was a serious debate (not a slanging match). So lets get right down to why Venus is more popular than Serena With White fans:

She no longer dominates (as Serena Still can, as @ Key Biscayne).

She's a quieter, more reserved person. (Funny, Jen can be as outspoken as she desires).

She doesn't play with the same ultra-aggressive style.

She doesn't wear such risque' outfits (funny, nobody bashes Ms. Ova-exposed-though-she-never-won-a-tournament for that).

In other words, Venus is Accorded A "grudging respect" for not seeming "too black".


:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:20 PM
Funny you mention Kournikova though. Because there are plenty of black fans that criticized the hell out of her. Why do you not ask the same question of black non-Anna and non-Maria fans???
Cheesestix, again I ask, how did you know that those fans were black? This is a message board. Was it their poor grammar/jive talk? http://www.ltmn.com/forums/html/emoticons/bday.gif

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:23 PM
Because, how can you hate the Williamses in particular for one reason, but love their colleagues who have the same general attitude. I just really want a reason in particular why one would dislike the Williamses in particular, and not dislike the majority of the WTA Tour. Other than the fact that they are black.

So all players:

1) Wear tacky ass outfits,
2) Scream like a freaking pterodactyl every time they hit the ball,
3) Don't give credit to their opponents (i.e. make excuses, etc),
and
4) Have fans that call you racist for not liking them, and are only interested in the black/white thing

(just to name a few things)

?????

Tell me ANY of those categories that Lindsay Davenport (for example) falls into???

decemberlove
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:27 PM
3.) No one has ever suggested that everyone who doesnt like the Williamses are racists. I have no idea where that idea comes from?

EARLIER ...

I dont know if theyre racist, (Yes I do, they ARE) but Im sick of the bullshit from the American crowd against Venus and Serena. They almost fell over their asses whenever Jennifer got an iffy call against Douchevina, but here, Golovin gets the crowd support. Bullshit, why root in favor of YOUR COUNTRY'S best player?

BULLSHIT. No one is rooting in favor of Andy Roddicks opponent becaus ethey want 4 or 5 damn sets. They want Roddick in and out.

Most non-Williams American tennis fans are racists, for the most part.
you said most. which is pretty damn close to all. i think that's where the idea came from. short-term memory, eh? multiple personalities, perhaps?

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:30 PM
So all players:

1) Wear tacky ass outfits,
2) Scream like a freaking pterodactyl every time they hit the ball,
3) Don't give credit to their opponents (i.e. make excuses, etc),
and
4) Have fans that call you racist for not liking them, and are only interested in the black/white thing

(just to name a few things)

?????

Tell me ANY of those categories that Lindsay Davenport (for example) falls into???
1.) Monica Seles, Elena Dementieva, every other player besides Kournikova and the Nike clones.
2.) Sharapova, Monica Seles (beloved player, who falls into two of those categories, ironically)
3.) 85% of the tour
4.) This is specific to them, but it deals with the fact that they are black, no...http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/tape.gif

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:31 PM
Cheesestix, again I ask, how did you know that those fans were black? This is a message board. Was it their poor grammar/jive talk? http://www.ltmn.com/forums/html/emoticons/bday.gif

How do you know they weren't?

I've seen plenty of pro-WS fans criticizing Anna, and they've said they're black. Why would they lie?

Stamp Paid
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:34 PM
EARLIER ...


you said most. which is pretty damn close to all. i think that's where the idea came from. short-term memory, eh? multiple personalities, perhaps?
Yes, i said most but not ALL. I fail to see your point...most is pretty close to all, but most still is not ALL. http://wtaworld.com/ubb/confused.gif I dont see a contradiction in those two posts. Had I said that ALL Non-Williams tennis fans are racists, OK. You would have a point. But since I didn't say that and made the significant distinction between MOST and ALL, you have no point. Lets try to advance the argument, not play silly semantics games.

decemberlove
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:34 PM
She doesn't wear such risque' outfits (funny, nobody bashes Ms. Ova-exposed-though-she-never-won-a-tournament for that).
i remember anna being bashed for her outfits several times. i believe you were one of them, roger :)

anna never wore risque outfits on court, anyway. i can't think of one. maybe they were tight and form-fitting, but she never showed a lot of skin on court. she has a style very similar to venus'.


... btw, i'm not saying there's anything wrong with risque outfits. i like them. :devil:

but you never fail to get in a subtle jab at anna, esp ever since you've had to calm down on the insults to seem more diplomatic and likeable.

Joana
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:36 PM
The only thing I can think of to dislike the Williamses in particular is either because they're black, or you dont girls with long weave.
The only thing I can think of to dislike Lindsay Davenport in particular is either that she's white or you don't like tall girls. Damn those racists and tall people haters. :mad:

*JR*
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:36 PM
So all players:

1) Wear tacky ass outfits,
2) Scream like a freaking pterodactyl every time they hit the ball,
3) Don't give credit to their opponents (i.e. make excuses, etc),
and
4) Have fans that call you racist for not liking them, and are only interested in the black/white thing

(just to name a few things)

?????

Tell me ANY of those categories that Lindsay Davenport (for example) falls into???First off, the outwardly Gentle Giant famously kicked Alex's stuff off a lockerroom bench. And basically gay-bashed Momo, though she did apologize/explain, whatever.

Re. outfits, your taste is your privilege, but Serena's well-toned ass doesn't sag! :lol:

Re. screaming/shrieking, etc. Sharky (who I like, BTW) does a pretty fair "747 taking off" herself! :p (As did Monica :worship: of course).

Re. giving credit, Marti (who I also liked) was the biggest Trash Talker The Tour has ever seen.

Re. fans claiming racism, I guess your ignoring all of the above kinda Tempts Them To.

decemberlove
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:37 PM
Yes, i said most but not ALL. I fail to see your point...most is pretty close to all, but most still is not ALL. http://wtaworld.com/ubb/confused.gif I dont see a contradiction in those two posts. Had I said that ALL Non-Williams tennis fans are racists, OK. You would have a point. But since I didn't say that and made the significant distinction between MOST and ALL, you have no point. Lets try to advance the argument, not play silly semantics games.
you wondered about the origin of the idea [if you even want to call it that]. i gave you the answer. :)

you were the one who brought it up, i felt the need to remind you...

faste5683
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:37 PM
In other words, Venus is Accorded A "grudging respect" for not seeming "too black".

And, to continue this line of thought, Amy Frazier cannot escape her "Wonder Bread"
complexion no matter how hard she tries. I'm sure that in the "Black" community there is a "grudging respect" for her astounding paleness, from which there is no escape.

;)

:wavey:

GBFH
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:38 PM
i remember anna being bashed for her outfits several times. i believe you were one of them, roger :)

anna never wore risque outfits on court, anyway. i can't think of one. maybe they were tight and form-fitting, but she never showed a lot of skin on court. she has a style very similar to venus'.


... btw, i'm not saying there's anything wrong with risque outfits. i like them. :devil:

but you never fail to get in a subtle jab at anna, esp ever since you've had to calm down on the insults to seem more diplomatic and likeable.
*whistles*

lovely to see you, holiday :)

*JR*
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:39 PM
And, to continue this line of thought, Amy Frazier cannot escape her "Wonder Bread"
complexion no matter how hard she tries. I'm sure that in the "Black" community there is a "grudging respect" for her astounding paleness, from which there is no escape.

;)

:wavey:Amy's hair is curlier than Serena's, though! :p

Black Mamba.
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:51 PM
1. Serena and Vee probably have faced or continue to face racism, but that doesn't mean every person who disagrees with them is racist. Shoot, Robin Givhan who is a Black fashion critic has talked about how some of Serena's outfits are trashy and not appropriate, even people on BET have said Serena should tone it down some.

2. Athletes in general aren't humble, that includes tennis players. I don't kid myself into believing many tennis players are humble.

3. I happen to be Black, but I like Vee and Serena not because of their skin color, but because of where they came from and what they are now. This story can give hope to anyone that just because you live in certain areas doesn't mean you have to fail

cheesestix
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:56 PM
1.) Monica Seles, Elena Dementieva, every other player besides Kournikova and the Nike clones.
2.) Sharapova, Monica Seles (beloved player, who falls into two of those categories, ironically)
3.) 85% of the tour
4.) This is specific to them, but it deals with the fact that they are black, no...http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/tape.gif

Now, ask me if I like ANY of those players that you mentioned???

But also show me any of those players that fit ALL FOUR of those criteria???

1) The point that you seem to miss is that it's all opinionated. I don't happen to dislike Anna's outfits. But I can't stand Serena's biker crap, and the catsuit, etc.
2) Personally, I couldn't stand Monica's scream either.
3) I don't think so. It's usually only the top players (but not all of them) that won't give credit. Why would a lower-ranked player say that? It wouldn't even make sense. Show me where someone like Sprem ever made such comments?
4) That makes it okay?

And again, show me where LINDSAY DAVENPORT fits ANY of those criteria????

faste5683
Sep 4th, 2004, 11:57 PM
Amy's hair is curlier than Serena's, though! :p

:haha: Yes, that's a wild Irish mop if I've ever seen one. Then again, I haven't seen Serena's *real* hair in a while. She might have gained a curl or two...

:wavey:

bandabou
Sep 5th, 2004, 12:17 AM
So all players:

1) Wear tacky ass outfits,
2) Scream like a freaking pterodactyl every time they hit the ball,
3) Don't give credit to their opponents (i.e. make excuses, etc),
and
4) Have fans that call you racist for not liking them, and are only interested in the black/white thing

(just to name a few things)

?????

Tell me ANY of those categories that Lindsay Davenport (for example) falls into???


so basically it is for the outfits and the fans?! Because Iīm sure you have watched Maria played today....and you wanna tell me she was all quiet?! So I guess you donīt like Jennifer either, because she curses like hell when playing and is known as being a kinda bad loser too.

cheesestix
Sep 5th, 2004, 12:21 AM
so basically it is for the outfits and the fans?! Because Iīm sure you have watched Maria played today....and you wanna tell me she was all quiet?! So I guess you donīt like Jennifer either, because she curses like hell when playing and is known as being a kinda bad loser too.

The fans are a big part of it.

But, who ever said I was a fan of Maria or Jen? :rolleyes:

bandabou
Sep 5th, 2004, 12:28 AM
The fans are a big part of it.

But, who ever said I was a fan of Maria or Jen? :rolleyes:


Yeah, cheese...tell us: Fan of whom are you anyways?! It seems that whomever beats a Williams you suddenly come and then act: Yeah I told ya so, this and that...how bad loser they are, how bad they dresses are.

Tell us more about YOUR fav. What has she done for us lately?!

mykarma
Sep 5th, 2004, 02:01 AM
"I wasn't sure how Serena would react after that loss, but Serena Williams was the epitome of grace and class after that absolute atrocious treatment she recieved in that semifinal. There's not too many players who would have showed that much class and courage after a match like that."

-Mary Carillo after 2003 French Open semifinal


"She congratulated me and gave me a couple kisses at the net."

-Jennifer Capriati after defeating Serena Williams at 2004 French Open quarterfinal.


"Serena said great job at the net and gave me a pat on the back. I'm sure it was hard from her being defending champion and all."

-Lindsay Davenport after defeating Serena Williams in 2000 US Open.


"I think she took the loss great and I thought it was nice for her to congratulate me after the trophy ceremony. She was very talkative today even before the match. But that's just her you know.

Lindsay Davenport after defeating Serena Williams at 2004 JP Morgan Chase.


"I don't remember exactly what she said but she gave me some words of encouragement and congratulated me."

Patty Schnyder after defeating Serena Williams in 2002 FCC.
The players always say how Serena congratulates them, and Maria said Serena also coached her after she beat Serena, but some people will never give her credit.

mykarma
Sep 5th, 2004, 02:14 AM
:confused:

I "put holes" in that post by asking the question.

And who said "all"? Oh yeah, YOU DID!

I didn't say "all" or "most", I said "a lot", and that's the truth. A lot of WS fans hate Sharapova.

Maybe you should read the quote that I was responding to:



All I did was point out that it works the other way around, too. Why is that?I know exactly what post you were responding to and I don't understand it. If you didn't have an answer you didn't have to respond.

martirogi
Sep 5th, 2004, 03:08 AM
Stop the hate, the only answer is to live as one, this war no one will win.

mykarma
Sep 5th, 2004, 03:45 AM
The fans are a big part of it.

But, who ever said I was a fan of Maria or Jen? :rolleyes:Since you don't like the sisters because of their fans, who is your favorite?:bounce:

cheesestix
Sep 5th, 2004, 04:43 AM
Since you don't like the sisters because of their fans, who is your favorite?:bounce:

I'm actually partial to Ai Sugiyama. Bash away. :rolleyes:

bandabou
Sep 5th, 2004, 12:41 PM
Itīs cool to not like the sisters, cheese....but keep it real.

atennisfan
Sep 5th, 2004, 03:46 PM
I dont think its racist to dislike the willams sisters. They arent the most humble people in the world and i think thats where the dislike stems from. That is why people like to see them fail, they big-up themselves so much that u cant help but want them to lose. I find it quite naseauting sometimes watching (serena is more gulity, venus i actually have more time for) the victory celebrations at the net. Its all a bit 'o look at me im the best'.
Chanda rubin is black and i would love to see her win more. Thats because of her charactor, not her skin colour. She happens to come across as a very nice, sweet, polite and humble woman.
Also, I think the fact that when a player or players are dominating so much it becomes boring (pete sampras anyone?) so naturally people want o see them lose or at least have a more competetive match to make it more interesting.

Jaime Bahena
Sep 5th, 2004, 04:51 PM
so true. some of these dumbasses don't even know what real racism is.
Enlighten us, Mr. Dude. What is the true definition of racism?

bandabou
Sep 5th, 2004, 05:06 PM
I dont think its racist to dislike the willams sisters. They arent the most humble people in the world and i think thats where the dislike stems from. That is why people like to see them fail, they big-up themselves so much that u cant help but want them to lose. I find it quite naseauting sometimes watching (serena is more gulity, venus i actually have more time for) the victory celebrations at the net. Its all a bit 'o look at me im the best'.
Chanda rubin is black and i would love to see her win more. Thats because of her charactor, not her skin colour. She happens to come across as a very nice, sweet, polite and humble woman.
Also, I think the fact that when a player or players are dominating so much it becomes boring (pete sampras anyone?) so naturally people want o see them lose or at least have a more competetive match to make it more interesting.


So in a yearīs time you would like to see Justine lose too?! Maria, Myskina, all of them lose too?! Remember domination...

cheesestix
Sep 5th, 2004, 05:27 PM
So in a yearīs time you would like to see Justine lose too?! Maria, Myskina, all of them lose too?! Remember domination...

Justine fits the description, but not Maria or Myskina. Who ever said they dominate? One slam = domination? :rolleyes: And you don't know what will happen in a year's time. But it sounds like you think they'll dominate, rather than WS. Nice slip up. :lol:

bandabou
Sep 5th, 2004, 05:48 PM
Justine fits the description, but not Maria or Myskina. Who ever said they dominate? One slam = domination? :rolleyes: And you don't know what will happen in a year's time. But it sounds like you think they'll dominate, rather than WS. Nice slip up. :lol:


Yeah, I do think so.....its time for new blood. The sisters had their time, now itīs time for somebody else. Mariaīs seen is the greatest thing to happen to tennis, so Iīd expect her to dominate. Myskina, probably has a couple of more slams in her too. So cheese: then what is your answer?! Would love see them lose too?! Remember dominatingīs bad..