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View Full Version : How to beat Venus when she makes 15 or fewer UEs in a match


Volcana
Oct 15th, 2001, 06:05 PM
I have some ideas, but I'm more interested in yours.

TheBoiledEgg
Oct 15th, 2001, 06:18 PM
Buy some TNT super doofer skates from Road Runner

HAIL-VENUS
Oct 15th, 2001, 06:37 PM
1)Shoot Venus in the foot
2)Slip Venus a "mickey" on the change over
3)Hire football player to tackle Venus while she's awaiting serve
4)Hit Venus in knee with tennis racket by "mistake"
5)Hire ball person to replace tennis balls with large ping-pong balls
<IMG SRC="smilies/cool.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/cool.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/cool.gif" border="0">

This is only a joke. I would never promote any player being hurt. <IMG SRC="smilies/angel.gif" border="0">

[ October 15, 2001: Message edited by: HAIL-VENUS ]

mickcecilio
Oct 16th, 2001, 01:48 AM
I think if you can match her in the serving department, you can have a chance. I guess you can hope that her 1st serve percentage is pretty dismal but the fact that she'd be making less than 15 UE's in a match means she'd be pretty confident with her whole game (including the serve).

If her opponent can serve big with a good % of 1st serves, stay aggressive and match her power AND make few unforced errors herself, I think this opponent can have a chance. But they would pretty much have to play the match of their lives!!!!

I think in this scenario, girls like Serena, Lindsay or Mary at their respective bests (mental, physical and technical bests) can seriously challenge Venus, but I still think Venus at her best can beat anyone's best.

xan
Oct 16th, 2001, 02:02 AM
Venus's serve is so powerful that when she is making very few UEs, she is extremely hard to get close to breaking. Her ability to hit fast, strong and accurate from anywhere on court is also awesome. A player's only hope is to notch up a few games quickly at the start of a match before Venus gets warmed up. Then hold on to your serve to take the first set.

Venus tends to warm up after 4 or so games, so the window isn't wide. if she's leading then, the other player has no real hope. Venus confidence will grow and her speed and power will dominate anyone. Get the first set, and it can be a different story.

Volcana
Oct 16th, 2001, 02:49 AM
How about going to net, and making her try to pass? Maybe she starts making errors.

Don't just hit the ball hard, put heavy spin on it.
Don't just put heavy spin on the ball, hit it hard.

End the point quickly. Venus likes rallying. (Which brings us back to going to net.)

LucasArg
Oct 16th, 2001, 02:56 AM
I think it s impossible <IMG SRC="smilies/wavey.gif" border="0">

pisces
Oct 16th, 2001, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by HAIL-VENUS:
<STRONG>1)Shoot Venus in the foot
2)Slip Venus a "mickey" on the change over
3)Hire football player to tackle Venus while she's awaiting serve
4)Hit Venus in knee with tennis racket by "mistake"
5)Hire ball person to replace tennis balls with large ping-pong balls
<IMG SRC="smilies/cool.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/cool.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/cool.gif" border="0">

This is only a joke. I would never promote any player being hurt. <IMG SRC="smilies/angel.gif" border="0">

[ October 15, 2001: Message edited by: HAIL-VENUS ]</STRONG>

pisces
Oct 16th, 2001, 03:10 AM
SHE THE GREATEST. <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce.gif" border="0"> http://bounce

pisces
Oct 16th, 2001, 03:12 AM
GOD ,NOW I'AM A JUNIOR ALL OVER AGAIN.

pisces
Oct 16th, 2001, 03:16 AM
IT WILL TAKE SOME TIME,BEFORE I BECOME A MEMBER THIS TIME.LOST JOB,HAVE TO FIND NEW ONE.LIFE GOES ON AND ON THANK GODDDDD <IMG SRC="smilies/firey.gif" border="0">

Volcana
Oct 16th, 2001, 03:19 AM
pisces - For what its worth, what you wrote read as pure humor to me.

Dawn Marie
Oct 16th, 2001, 05:10 AM
you cant do it.. this is impossible.

MANEVSKI
Oct 16th, 2001, 06:03 AM
most DEFINATELY Venus can lose if she makes 15 unforced errors , because you've skipped the hidden statistic...FORCED ERRORS!.....

if Venus is feeling tight , and not hitting through the ball at 100% of the usual velocity...im sure even if she makes a meagre 15 errors players like Seles , Hinigs , Dokic , Davenport , Serena etc will step in and MOVE Venus...giving her less time to set up and forcing the error , or hitting a winner themself.

HAIL-VENUS
Oct 16th, 2001, 03:08 PM
SM2K, when Venus is making very few unforced errors, she is usually controlling her power very well, keeping the ball in play, and moving her opponent around. Venus with 15 or less unforced errors = Venus on top of her game. This also includes serving extremely well (power + placement), forcing her opponents into long tiring rallies, coming in to the net on short balls (forced by her powerful and accurate groundstrokes), and most importantly, stealing her opponents confidence.

In other words, it is nearly impossible because 15 or less unforced errors from Vee, probably means a flawless game from Vee.

MANEVSKI
Oct 16th, 2001, 03:56 PM
i say your views being clouded .....i do agree that venus is currently playing like the no.1 , dont get me wrong , but shes not a 'machine'...

in saying shes not a machine she is not 100% consistent , so saying just cos her errors are low that shes playing good tennis is wrong!

tennis is like a chess game , even with power you need to use anticipation and perhaps intuition to know what your doing.....you need court sense..

in other words venus cant just pound the ball in any direction , she needs to be focussed...and it doesnt matter if errors are low alone..

also , her errors could be low cos shes tentative! u cant just assume shes belting the crap off the ball just cos errors are low , and even if shes just the slightest bit tentative , all i was saying isthe big hitters such as her little sister will exploit that!

theres a world/planet outside of Venus...open up to it <IMG SRC="smilies/wavey.gif" border="0">

saki
Oct 16th, 2001, 04:13 PM
Variety, angles, and above all coming to net are the key to beating Venus. Justine managed to take the 2nd set in the Wimbledon final in this way, and had she played the same way in the 3rd set she could have won. The thing is that Venus is so intimidating on court that most players find it difficult to be attacking. In that match Justine went back to being tentative and back to the baseline.

But I maintain that a match between Venus at her best and Justine/Martina/Amanda Coetzer/Anna at their most attacking and aggressive wouldn't be a foregone conclusion.

Venus is a fantastic player, no doubt about it, but even at her best she's beatable like anyone else. It's just a bit harder to beat her than anyone else... <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

Viva
Oct 16th, 2001, 04:20 PM
lol, they took your name away pisces? That is really pathetic. Anybody with half a brain knew you were joking.

*sighs and walks away in disgust*

<IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

HAIL-VENUS
Oct 16th, 2001, 05:49 PM
SM2K, there is also a planet Venus, you should visit it sometimes. <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">
It's very obvious that you didn't read my entire post. Nowhere does it say that Venus' "power alone" wins matches for her. You also can't just think that because Venus' errors are low that she's playing poorly. You apparently know nothing about Venus' game. When she's ON, and her opponent is ON, betting on Venus is a very good idea. She's proven this many times over. My accessment on this issue is not as unjustified as you would like to make it seem.

I also forgot to mention Venus' newly aquired of about 1 year and 1/2, mental toughness and competitiveness. The argument is NOT whether Venus is beatable. She's been beaten plenty of times. She obviously has to be playing well to keep her errors under 15. Hell, she's nearly unstoppable with 30+. How do you think she's stoppable with 15 or less?

[ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: HAIL-VENUS ]

joaco
Oct 16th, 2001, 10:25 PM
LOL HAIL-VENUS !!!
<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">

SilK
Dec 21st, 2005, 05:38 PM
:awww: :thosewerethedaysbump:

Wannabeknowitall
Dec 21st, 2005, 05:42 PM
I think praying helps. Lots of praying and drink plenty of water when Venus makes 15 or fewer UEs in a match.

-VSR-
Dec 21st, 2005, 05:43 PM
:sad: :hug:

rjd1111
Dec 21st, 2005, 05:46 PM
I have some ideas, but I'm more interested in yours.


I cannot remember ever seeing V lose a match when she when she had
15 UE and Serving in the 60 or 70% range. If you know of one please
enlighten me. Nearly every match I remember her losing was because of
UEs

migi
Dec 21st, 2005, 05:46 PM
make her horney of something....

tennisrox
Dec 21st, 2005, 06:03 PM
Nandrolone.

darrinbaker00
Dec 21st, 2005, 06:09 PM
Venus's serve is so powerful that when she is making very few UEs, she is extremely hard to get close to breaking. Her ability to hit fast, strong and accurate from anywhere on court is also awesome. A player's only hope is to notch up a few games quickly at the start of a match before Venus gets warmed up. Then hold on to your serve to take the first set.

Venus tends to warm up after 4 or so games, so the window isn't wide. if she's leading then, the other player has no real hope. Venus confidence will grow and her speed and power will dominate anyone. Get the first set, and it can be a different story.
Like Lindsay Davenport did at Wimbledon, perhaps? ;)

jamatthews
Dec 21st, 2005, 06:52 PM
Like Lindsay Davenport did at Wimbledon, perhaps? ;)

Yes, and hope your back doesn't go when you are a break up in the 3rd set... :angel:

~Cherry*Blossom~
Dec 21st, 2005, 06:53 PM
Dress up as Serena!!!

VeeReeDavJCap81
Dec 21st, 2005, 06:56 PM
It's virtually impossible because if Vee only makes 15 UEs that means she'll probably have more than 20 winners.

Ryan
Dec 21st, 2005, 07:03 PM
It's virtually impossible because if Vee only makes 15 UEs that means she'll probably have more than 20 winners.



I have to agree that it is ALMOST impossible, but not completely. I think the key is to mix it up. Most times when players come up against someone in a groove they just keep hitting away and don't change their tactics. If Venus is playing an ON match, top players ala Kim and Maria should hit some junk (as long as its deep), but not constantly. Mix it up with slices etc. but only so that Venus doesn't see hard, flat shots all the time. I think there's a fine line between mixing it up, changing the rhythm, and going the complete opposite way. Just track down balls as much as possible, hit to her forehand when you get a chance, and if all else fails, take as many injury timeouts as possible.

Steffica Greles
Dec 21st, 2005, 07:09 PM
Slice the ball deep to her forehand side, particularly to the centre of the court. Get her to play a lot of backhands off the slice from the backhand-centre area of the baseline, if you see what I mean (e.g forehand, fh-centre, bh-centre, backhand).

But the ball must be kept deep and very low with biting, Graf or Novotna-like slice.

Don't approach the net too often, certainly not unless there's an easy volley. She's just too quick unless there's an easy put-away.

Venus tends to go down the line a lot on her forehand when she's on the run. It's one of her best shots. Make sure if you use angles to her forehand you're able to cover the missile that's likely to come down the line to your backhand. Return it deep, preferably to the centre of the baseline area. If you can't do that, it's an easy put-away for Venus. So you have to be a great athlete to deal with her or you're completely at her mercy if she's playing at her best.

Don't expect to hit winners. Just focus on hitting the ball hard, keeping her back, and firing balls into open spaces. When she can't get to the ball it's a bonus, but the main focus should be on inducing errors and making her least comfortable hitting her shots.

Basically, in terms of approach play her the way Hingis always did, but you'd need to be a bit quicker and to put her technique under a lot more pressure. Hingis' shots sat-up too often, and she rarely used slice.

A combination of Hingis and Graf tactics sounds good. If you have Novotna's volleys, that helps.

What can I say about her serve? If she's serving well, make sure you've started to read it well early in the match. Threaten her second serve by standing inside the baseline. Return the ball deep. That's all you can do.

franny
Dec 21st, 2005, 07:12 PM
Yes, and hope your back doesn't go when you are a break up in the 3rd set... :angel:

Oh my gosh, I shouldn't laugh cuz that's pretty mean but I did find it funny anyways.

Back to the topic, if Venus is on her crazy mode, there's really very little you can do. I agree that coming to net and trying to fluster her would be a good strategy. Using lots of slices aimed towards her forehand would also fluster her. If you can consistently serve big and get a few cheap pts every game, you may be able to stay close enough to her to have a chance. Or, you can always just go out of your mind and go for the lines and make them. But that will never happen because I don't think two players can play out of their minds at the same time.

rjd1111
Dec 21st, 2005, 07:46 PM
I have to agree that it is ALMOST impossible, but not completely. I think the key is to mix it up. Most times when players come up against someone in a groove they just keep hitting away and don't change their tactics. If Venus is playing an ON match, top players ala Kim and Maria should hit some junk (as long as its deep), but not constantly. Mix it up with slices etc. but only so that Venus doesn't see hard, flat shots all the time. I think there's a fine line between mixing it up, changing the rhythm, and going the complete opposite way. Just track down balls as much as possible, hit to her forehand when you get a chance, and if all else fails, take as many injury timeouts as possible.


The Problem with that is that when Venus is on the other player is in a
reactive mode constantly. They may not have time to set up shots.
V will be hitting Hard and fast from all angles. Its all they can do to get the
the ball back. Even when they can get one of her zingers back with something on it, no one has court coverage like V. She can get to it and
another hotshot is coming at them.

SilK
Dec 21st, 2005, 07:49 PM
:lol: everybody does know that this thread was originally started in 2001? :D

Ryan
Dec 21st, 2005, 07:53 PM
:lol: everybody does know that this thread was originally started in 2001? :D



...Yeah.

Tennace
Dec 21st, 2005, 07:55 PM
Maybe if she makes over 15 DF people can beat her

jfk
Dec 21st, 2005, 08:17 PM
The key to beating Venus if she starts in a zone is to just wait it out and make her play every shot. The Clijsters match at the US Open is a great example. Venus was playing fantastic tennis in the first set and most of the second set. Kim just kept running down balls. Eventually, Venus got tired, and Kim was able to take control.

Venus can sustain her great play against players like Pierce and Sharapova because the points are shorter. Her conditioning and stamina don't play as much of a role in those matches.

volta
Dec 21st, 2005, 08:23 PM
Vee in the zone is just amazing to watch :hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

Black Mamba.
Dec 21st, 2005, 08:25 PM
Hope it rains, if that's not possible make her hit as many shots as possible.

faboozadoo15
Dec 21st, 2005, 09:27 PM
the only times i've seen venus make fewer than 15 errors in a match is when she retired early.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Dec 21st, 2005, 09:53 PM
the only times i've seen venus make fewer than 15 errors in a match is when she retired early.

Go back and find some matches from Wimbledon 2003, she had two or three matches with either less that 15 or very close to it ;)

Paldias
Dec 21st, 2005, 10:06 PM
Hit 30 or more winners?

darrinbaker00
Dec 21st, 2005, 10:13 PM
Yes, and hope your back doesn't go when you are a break up in the 3rd set... :angel:
Like when Lindsay was up match point, perhaps? ;)

VeeReeDavJCap81
Dec 21st, 2005, 10:20 PM
Like when Lindsay was up match point, perhaps? ;)

Or serving for the match in the 2ND set??? ;)

arn
Dec 21st, 2005, 10:47 PM
Play left-right 2-3 times, then wrongfoot her :) Venus is not good changing direction very fast when she's already going in one direction

SerenaSlam
Dec 21st, 2005, 11:09 PM
have her play a 100% fit and on Serena Williams....it will be straight set vicotry but maybe 1 tiebreak!

VeeReeDavJCap81
Dec 21st, 2005, 11:13 PM
have her play a 100% fit and on Serena Williams....it will be straight set vicotry but maybe 1 tiebreak!

And she's probably the ONLY player who could take an "on" Serena to a tiebreak :eek:

SelesFan70
Dec 21st, 2005, 11:23 PM
Has Venus ever HAD a match with <15 unforced errors? :confused:

venus_rulez
Dec 21st, 2005, 11:27 PM
if venus has 15 or less unforced errors, no one is beating her and I'd bet the farm on that. People seem to think that a Serena 100% beats anyone, which I don't agree, and even if it were true how many times is any player at 100% of their abilities? And anyway I think history has shown that venus more often than serena plays better tennis, it's just that serena is exceptional at playing good when she need to tennis.

VeeReeDavJCap81
Dec 21st, 2005, 11:39 PM
Has Venus ever HAD a match with <15 unforced errors? :confused:

Wimbledon 2003 :drool:

vogus
Dec 21st, 2005, 11:42 PM
It's very rare for ANY player in the Top 25 to lose a match when hitting fewer than 15 shots that get classified as unforced errors.

Knizzle
Dec 21st, 2005, 11:46 PM
It's very rare for ANY player in the Top 25 to lose a match when hitting fewer than 15 shots that get classified as unforced errors.

In fairness this thread was made in 2001. Hingis could have 15 errors back then and lose.

tennisIlove09
Dec 21st, 2005, 11:58 PM
I can only think of one match where Venus has made fewer than 15 UFE and that's the 2001 San Diego Final :o :shrug:

Knizzle
Dec 22nd, 2005, 12:05 AM
I can only think of one match where Venus has made fewer than 15 UFE and that's the 2001 San Diego Final :o :shrug:

Wimbledon 2003 QF vs Davenport and SF vs Clijsters. Prolly in some of the earlier rounds too, for sure. Also her lone match in China this year she had single digits UFE's I think.

vwfan
Dec 22nd, 2005, 01:52 AM
Dress up as Serena!!!Dress up like Serena and cry! :lol:

DomenicDemaria
Dec 22nd, 2005, 02:29 AM
I would hire a hitman. They is no other way to bet Venus if she does hit less than 15 errors :haha: