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Doc
Aug 1st, 2004, 09:23 PM
Some people won't like me saying this. But a familiar pattern repeats itself. Myskina plays her guts out to eliminate her fellow Russians. Then as soon as she faces a top non-Russian player, she plays a half-hearted, unmotivated match and collapses.

A few days ago the threads were full of how Myskina is the only top Russian, she is the world beater and potential slam-winner. The others are all flukes and has-beens. I said then that I'd start to believe it when she won the title. As I expected, the old pattern recurred, and Myskina is blown away 6-1 6-1.

And if Nastya was tired, as some are saying, wasn't Lindsay tired after playing 3 weeks solid and reaching three finals. And she was injured too.

Brαm
Aug 1st, 2004, 09:24 PM
Can you give us examples of this pattern please? When did she also first beat a fellow Russian and then lose in 2 easy sets?

jimbo mack
Aug 1st, 2004, 09:25 PM
doc, i think you are being a TAD dramatic!! lindsay didnt give her a chance!

tterb
Aug 1st, 2004, 09:31 PM
So you're going to make me post this again by making a new thread? Okay, here was my reply to you in the other thread, Doc:

I didn't realize that Chanda Rubin, Venus Williams, and Jennifer Capriati had suddenly become Russian. Thanks for making me aware of this fact. The only players Anastasia has been beaten soundly by this season are Jennifer Capriati on clay, Justine Henin-Hardenne (who was the dominant #1 at that point) at IW, and Lindsay Davenport (who is the dominant hardcourt player at the moment). She lost in tight straight sets to Clijsters and Mauresmo, the only other top players she's played this year.

Also, Lindsay jammed her knee yesterday. She was perfectly fine today, moving wonderfully.

I don't think ANYONE is going to be dominant any time soon. Anastasia is the best of the Russians at the moment, but nobody who's being realistic expects her to win everything. If you take issue to threads about Anastasia being the true Russian champion, maybe you'll think back to Wimbledon. Thread titles like 'Will Maria dominate the hardcourt season?' come to mind. Where was your indignation then? These things cut both ways... there are people who overhype players and those who will underrate them - true for both Myskina AND Sharapova, and everyone else for that matter.

Hant Hant
Aug 1st, 2004, 09:44 PM
myskina should drink some more protein

Ballbuster
Aug 1st, 2004, 09:46 PM
Face it! Myskina have a mental block on the Russians. That is a good thing.

Doc
Aug 1st, 2004, 09:47 PM
I didn't realize that Chanda Rubin, Venus Williams, and Jennifer Capriati had suddenly become Russian. Thanks for making me aware of this fact. The only players Anastasia has been beaten soundly by this season are Jennifer Capriati on clay, Justine Henin-Hardenne (who was the dominant #1 at that point) at IW, and Lindsay Davenport (who is the dominant hardcourt player at the moment). She lost in tight straight sets to Clijsters and Mauresmo, the only other top players she's played this year.

Myskina did get a couple of wins against good players on the clay of RG this year. However Chanda is not a top player at the moment, and Nastya's losses are far more numerous. The statistics bear out the truth of the comparison over her career head-to-heads with the current Top Tenners. the only ones she has a positive head-to-head against are the Russians.


Anastasia Myskina Head-to-Heads (WTA-4) 22-34 (39%)

Serena Williams 0-3 (0%)
Lindsay Davenport 0-4 (0%)
Amelie Mauresmo 1-6 (14%)
Justine Henin-Hardenne 2-5 (29%)
Jennifer Capriati 2-5 (29%)
Venus Williams 1-2 (33%)
Kim Clijsters 3-4 (43%)
Ai Sugiyama 2-2 (50%)
Elena Dementieva 5-3(63%)
Svetlana Kuznetsova 3-1 (75%)
Maria Sharapova 3-0 (100%)

Shenanigans
Aug 1st, 2004, 09:47 PM
myskina should drink some more protein


From another thread, I heard she likes her coke, appartenly had 3 in a doubles match, maybe a late night the night before needs cafine more than protein.

Atrixo
Aug 1st, 2004, 09:50 PM
From another thread, I heard she likes her coke, appartenly had 3 in a doubles match, maybe a late night the night before needs cafine more than protein.

Someone should have had a 24 case of Coke by the courtside for Nastya. She needs her "spinach"! ;)

!<blocparty>!
Aug 1st, 2004, 09:52 PM
Lindsay didnt allow her to play well. She dominated throughout.

SerenaVenusNo1
Aug 1st, 2004, 09:53 PM
I think the problem is a very draining night match the night before a noon start against Lindsay. I don't think Justine would've done so well if she had to come back after beating Jennifer in the USO semi the very next day at noon to play Kim.

deckham
Aug 1st, 2004, 09:53 PM
myskina should drink some more protein
you make no sense....

deckham
Aug 1st, 2004, 10:01 PM
if you saw the match it was quite obvious that nastya just couldn't compete at a high level today. she was always hitting the top of the net, a sign of fatigue, she wasn't bending her knees, she wasn't moving as well...... the girl had just been through a hell match the night before and had a hard time just coming down from such a high intensity. supposedly she received a massage after the match to try to loosen herself up after the match, but that didn't even do the trick. that is why she went to watch zvonareva in the doubles match, to try to take her mind off things and calm down... it was only after the doubles match that she was relaxed enough to even think about going to sleep. playing a fellow russian in a 2 hr. 45 minute match that goes to a 17-15 tiebreaker to decide the outcome about 14 hours before a final against a player in form like davenport is a near impossible task. you could see nastya try her best and she was trying to get motivated, but her body (and mind) just wouldn't let it happen...
also, i know she was beaten in a one-sided 6-1 6-1, but it wasn't as lopsided as it looked... myskina had break points on davenport's first 3 service games and, thanks to davenport's huge aces, all went to deuces... she did what she could but unfortunately her body wasn't ready for that match yet....
give the girl a break... i don't think any player in the world would be a well rested davenport after such a match the night before......
nastya is a fantastic player and she will be seeing davenport soon.... maybe in the u.s. open final when myskina will have a day's rest... then it will be a different story...... ;) :drink:

Ballbuster
Aug 1st, 2004, 10:06 PM
She decks out all the Russians. What's wrong with that?

Shenanigans
Aug 1st, 2004, 10:07 PM
Someone should have had a 24 case of Coke by the courtside for Nastya. She needs her "spinach"! ;)


Yes, I thought coke was no longer permitted on the tour, obviously she's found a supplier. Terrible for the teeth though.

wongqks
Aug 1st, 2004, 10:11 PM
well everyone need to give Myskina a break ditto, to deckham and tterb. The schedule sucks so much, there shouldn't even be a night match on sat, the money grabbing organisers divide this into two sessions, and then Myskina go and play a three hour match, slept for 8 hours and need to get up and play another top match again?

Lindsay play awesome and I am sure she would have won no matter what, but to discredit Anastasia like that just like nothing happen is not really fair on her

Doc
Aug 1st, 2004, 10:17 PM
if you saw the match it was quite obvious that nastya just couldn't compete at a high level today. she was always hitting the top of the net, a sign of fatigue, she wasn't bending her knees, she wasn't moving as well...... the girl had just been through a hell match the night before and had a hard time just coming down from such a high intensity.

But Lindsay had just come off three weeks high intensity play, she had a tough match with Elena D, and was carrying an injury.

And it's not just this match. The stats show that this is a recurring theme with Myskina. She has a game and intensity to beat other Russian players, but a dreadful record against the rest of the Top Players.

That's one reason Myskina isn't on my sig. I get very irritated at Myskina and her attitude. I got fed up last year seeing her play wonderful against Russian players with prospects and give up without a fight against the top non-Russians.

Doc
Aug 1st, 2004, 10:20 PM
The schedule sucks so much, there shouldn't even be a night match on sat, the money grabbing organisers divide this into two sessions, and then Myskina go and play a three hour match, slept for 8 hours and need to get up and play another top match again?


Hard. But players sometimes have to play semis and then a Final on the same day if there have been rain delays. And they still win.

deckham
Aug 1st, 2004, 10:27 PM
Hard. But players sometimes have to play semis and then a Final on the same day if there have been rain delays. And they still win.
yes... but usually every player has been delayed so they are all in the same boat. and no one who had to do what nastya did would have beaten lindsay today.... it's just very very silly to have a night match for a semi when the final is at noon... it's absolutely ridiculous...

deckham
Aug 1st, 2004, 10:35 PM
But Lindsay had just come off three weeks high intensity play, she had a tough match with Elena D, and was carrying an injury.
it was her choice to play 3 weeks in a row.. so that's not an issue. and it's her fault that she got injured. those were things under lindsay's control... she decided what tourney's to play and she's the one that tweaked her own knee. myskina didn't ask for a night match 16 hours before the final... that's neurotic... davenport had much more time to relax and unwind and prepare herself. it was typical scheduling to benefit the fav american so she can win the "california slam" ...
And it's not just this match. The stats show that this is a recurring theme with Myskina. She has a game and intensity to beat other Russian players, but a dreadful record against the rest of the Top Players.
that's not true anymore... she's grown as a player and as a person.. she always plays with tremendous spirit and intensity and has beaten the best players now. if she doesn't win they are all usually very competitive games (excluding lindsay's)
That's one reason Myskina isn't on my sig. I get very irritated at Myskina and her attitude. I got fed up last year seeing her play wonderful against Russian players with prospects and give up without a fight against the top non-Russians.
what's wrong with her attitude? she just shows her personality on the court... she doesn't whine and complain about points for 5 minutes... she plays her heart out and she should be respected for wearing her heart on her sleeve every match.

Doc
Aug 1st, 2004, 10:41 PM
The night match thing is bad, yes. But it doubles the tournament takings for the day.

However it doesn't explain Myskina's 0-4 H-H with Davenport, and 0-3 h-h with Serena.

beauty_is_pink
Aug 1st, 2004, 10:44 PM
i think... dare i say this... but there is more of a rivarly between yourself and your countrywomen.

SerenaVenusNo1
Aug 1st, 2004, 10:46 PM
But Lindsay had just come off three weeks high intensity play, she had a tough match with Elena D, and was carrying an injury.

And it's not just this match. The stats show that this is a recurring theme with Myskina. She has a game and intensity to beat other Russian players, but a dreadful record against the rest of the Top Players.

That's one reason Myskina isn't on my sig. I get very irritated at Myskina and her attitude. I got fed up last year seeing her play wonderful against Russian players with prospects and give up without a fight against the top non-Russians.

Dude, perhaps it's because Dementieva, Zvonareva, Kuznetsova and Sharapova (during their first two matches anyway) aren't on the level of Davenport, Venus, Serena, Justine, etc. Just because she can beat "the Russians" doesn't mean she should naturally be able to own those four.

Doc
Aug 1st, 2004, 10:49 PM
what's wrong with her attitude? she just shows her personality on the court... she doesn't whine and complain about points for 5 minutes... she plays her heart out and she should be respected for wearing her heart on her sleeve every match.

I'm not talking about that part. She can curse, swear and break as many rackets as she likes on court for all I care.

The attitude I don't like is the negative attitude. The only thing that seems to really motivate her is keeping the No 1 in Russia spot. She digs it out, plays three hour matches, saves 9 match points, goes for every shot imaginable against Russian players, then meekly surrenders to the top non-Russians. You may deny this, but it is my perception, and seems to be borne out by the head to heads. I think she is poorly motivated and puts a different amount of effort into different matches. In this she reminds me of Virginia Wade who would fight out of her mind to knock out up-and-coming British players, then lose easily to some other nationality.

Doc
Aug 1st, 2004, 10:52 PM
Dude, perhaps it's because Dementieva, Zvonareva, Kuznetsova and Sharapova (during their first two matches anyway) aren't on the level of Davenport, Venus, Serena, Justine, etc. Just because she can beat "the Russians" doesn't mean she should naturally be able to own those four.

Now don't a number of those you mention above actually have victories over Venus Serena and Davenport? this would seem to discount your suggestion that they are "on a different level".

if nastya is so much better a player than the other Russians, shouldn't she have more victories against the top players than they do?

SerenaVenusNo1
Aug 1st, 2004, 10:59 PM
Now don't a number of those you mention above actually have victories over Venus Serena and Davenport? this would seem to discount your suggestion that they are "on a different level".

if nastya is so much better a player than the other Russians, shouldn't she have more victories against the top players than they do?

No, because it doesn't work like that. Who are we talking about, anyway? Davenport, Venus, Serena, Kim, Justine and Jennifer??? I bet Myskina has the best record out of the all russians against those six.

Besides, just because one player can beat another, doesn't mean a player that beats player a can naturally beat player b. Secondly, most of Myskina's losses to the cream of the crop came years ago.

Nastyafan
Aug 1st, 2004, 11:15 PM
I asked this in 5-6 thread already but no one want to answer me
well i will try here too
How it happens the home-darling can't receive prime-time, instead of American-Russian battle, they schedule two evenings boring all Russian matches. Even more, yesterday they scheduled Vera to play 2 evening matches with a possibility of playing 2 final next noon:confused:
Please give me some sensible explanation

Doc
Aug 1st, 2004, 11:53 PM
No, because it doesn't work like that. Who are we talking about, anyway? Davenport, Venus, Serena, Kim, Justine and Jennifer??? I bet Myskina has the best record out of the all russians against those six.

The better player should really have the better results. But does myskina have the best record of all the Russians? Look at the head-to-heads. Myskina only has a green, positive h2h with russians. Look at her negative h2h's. The other Russian players listed have no worse, and in some cases better h2hs with top non-russian players.

Anastasia Myskina (WTA-4) 22-34 (39%)
Serena Williams 0-3 (0%)
Lindsay Davenport 0-4 (0%)
Amelie Mauresmo 1-6 (14%)
Justine Henin-Hardenne 2-5 (29%)
Jennifer Capriati 2-5 (29%)
Venus Williams 1-2 (33%)
Kim Clijsters 3-4 (43%)
Ai Sugiyama 2-2 (50%)
Elena Dementieva 5-3(63%)
Svetlana Kuznetsova 3-1 (75%)
Maria Sharapova 3-0 (100%)

Maria Sharapova (WTA-8) 5-9 (36%)
Anastasia Myskina 0-3 (0%)
Kim Clijsters 0-2 (0%)
Jennifer Capriati 0-1(0%)
Svetlana Kuznetsova 0-1 (0%)
Justine Henin-Hardenne 0-0 (--%)
Amelie Mauresmo 0-0 (--%)
Venus Williams 0-0 (--%)
Serena Williams 1-1 (50%)
Elena Dementieva 2-1 (67%)
Lindsay Davenport 1-0 (100%)
Ai Sugiyama 1-0 (100%)

Elena Dementieva (WTA-6) 18-44 (29%)
Jennifer Capriati 0-3(0%)
Serena Williams 0-3 (0%)
Justine Henin-Hardenne 1-6 (14%)
Kim Clijsters 1-5 (17%)
Lindsay Davenport 4-9 (31%)
Maria Sharapova 1-2 (33%)
Amelie Mauresmo 3-5 (38%)
Anastasia Myskina 3-5 (38%)
Venus Williams 2-3 (40%)
Svetlana Kuznetsova 1-1 (0%)
Ai Sugiyama 2-2 (50%)

Svetlana Kuznetsova (WTA-9) 7-17 (29%)
Kim Clijsters 0-3 (0%)
Amelie Mauresmo 0-1 (0%)
Serena Williams 0-1 (0%)
Jennifer Capriati 0-1 (0%)
Justine Henin-Hardenne 1-5 (17%)
Anastasia Myskina 1-3 (25%)
Venus Williams 1-2 (33%)
Lindsay Davenport 0-0 (--%)
Elena Dementieva 1-1 (50%)
Maria Sharapova 1-0 (100%)
Ai Sugiyama 2-0 (100%)

Doc
Aug 1st, 2004, 11:57 PM
I asked this in 5-6 thread already but no one want to answer me
well i will try here too
How it happens the home-darling can't receive prime-time, instead of American-Russian battle, they schedule two evenings boring all Russian matches. Even more, yesterday they scheduled Vera to play 2 evening matches with a possibility of playing 2 final next noon:confused:
Please give me some sensible explanation

I have no real explanation. The main possibility is that Davenport, living locally has more influence with the organisers, and decided she didn't want to play at night. Schedulers often try to fit in with the requests of top players.

tenn_ace
Aug 1st, 2004, 11:58 PM
Some people won't like me saying this. But a familiar pattern repeats itself. Myskina plays her guts out to eliminate her fellow Russians. Then as soon as she faces a top non-Russian player, she plays a half-hearted, unmotivated match and collapses.

A few days ago the threads were full of how Myskina is the only top Russian, she is the world beater and potential slam-winner. The others are all flukes and has-beens. I said then that I'd start to believe it when she won the title. As I expected, the old pattern recurred, and Myskina is blown away 6-1 6-1.

And if Nastya was tired, as some are saying, wasn't Lindsay tired after playing 3 weeks solid and reaching three finals. And she was injured too.

sorry but that's a complete bs... Linds was just too good today and it has nothing to do with Nastya not wanting to win.

SerenaVenusNo1
Aug 1st, 2004, 11:59 PM
Her and Dementieva both have eight wins over the six players I named.

shnit.
Aug 2nd, 2004, 12:12 AM
oh psshh..:rolleyes: jus leave her alone "Doc"..

bandabou
Aug 2nd, 2004, 12:20 AM
Tjaaaa....then the opposite can be asked too: why can all the russians step it up at the plate against other players but they canīt beat Myskina?! I think that THAT is the frustrating thing for our friend, Doc.

Nastyafan
Aug 2nd, 2004, 12:45 AM
I have no real explanation. The main possibility is that Davenport, living locally has more influence with the organisers, and decided she didn't want to play at night. Schedulers often try to fit in with the requests of top players.
of course it's the reason
and isn't it favouring to one player?
Nastya was seeded higher, maybe they shold first ask her?

.ivy.
Aug 2nd, 2004, 01:07 AM
It does seem like Myskina was tired when she was playing Davenport, but kudos to Lindsay for taking advantage of that.

Crazy Canuck
Aug 2nd, 2004, 01:11 AM
Damn it. Must spread bad rep around first...

Crazy Canuck
Aug 2nd, 2004, 01:12 AM
Tjaaaa....then the opposite can be asked too: why can all the russians step it up at the plate against other players but they canīt beat Myskina?! I think that THAT is the frustrating thing for our friend, Doc.
He's just HILARIOUSLY bitter ;)

Doc
Aug 2nd, 2004, 01:13 AM
oh psshh..:rolleyes: jus leave her alone "Doc"..
Why is myskina supposedly beyond criticism?

If she's so far ahead, she should be challenging the top players.

Doc
Aug 2nd, 2004, 01:17 AM
sorry but that's a complete bs... Linds was just too good today and it has nothing to do with Nastya not wanting to win.

So why has Nastya no wins over Serena or Lindsay and 7 losses?

Doc
Aug 2nd, 2004, 01:51 AM
He's just HILARIOUSLY bitter ;)
Either respond intelligently to the points being made, or if you are incapable of that, don't bother to post stupid comments.

SerenaVenusNo1
Aug 2nd, 2004, 01:57 AM
Why is myskina supposedly beyond criticism?

If she's so far ahead, she should be challenging the top players.

She is. She's doing better than anybody!

Doc
Aug 2nd, 2004, 02:01 AM
She is. She's doing better than anybody!

really?

a 4-0 negative record to Lindsay

A 3-0 negative record to Serena

A 1-6 negative record to Mauresmo

I can point to a lot of people doing better than that.

SerenaVenusNo1
Aug 2nd, 2004, 02:04 AM
really?

a 4-0 negative record to Lindsay

A 3-0 negative record to Serena

A 1-6 negative record to Mauresmo

I can point to a lot of people doing better than that.

Not one of the other Russians.

tenn_ace
Aug 2nd, 2004, 02:08 AM
So why has Nastya no wins over Serena or Lindsay and 7 losses?
:rolleyes: wow what a logic and again :rolleyes:

Doc
Aug 2nd, 2004, 02:12 AM
Not one of the other Russians.

Try Maria.
Try Elena D.

If you'd looked earlier in the thread you would have seen.

alfonsojose
Aug 2nd, 2004, 02:35 AM
She a played a 17-15 tie-breaker last night. What do u want from her? to use "the hand" ?

Doc
Aug 2nd, 2004, 02:52 AM
She a played a 17-15 tie-breaker last night. What do u want from her? to use "the hand" ?

It's not just about last night.

She needs to get a winning record against non-russian top players.

goldenlox
Aug 2nd, 2004, 02:55 AM
Look at it this way. However good Myskina is, Sharapova is a lot less good.

Doc
Aug 2nd, 2004, 02:59 AM
Look at it this way. However good Myskina is, Sharapova is a lot less good.

No. She's better against the top players. Check the stats.

goldenlox
Aug 2nd, 2004, 03:01 AM
There's one player ranked #4 who plays with Sharapova like a cat with a dead mouse.

fammmmedspin
Aug 2nd, 2004, 03:03 AM
I'm not talking about that part. She can curse, swear and break as many rackets as she likes on court for all I care.

The attitude I don't like is the negative attitude. The only thing that seems to really motivate her is keeping the No 1 in Russia spot. She digs it out, plays three hour matches, saves 9 match points, goes for every shot imaginable against Russian players, then meekly surrenders to the top non-Russians. You may deny this, but it is my perception, and seems to be borne out by the head to heads. I think she is poorly motivated and puts a different amount of effort into different matches. In this she reminds me of Virginia Wade who would fight out of her mind to knock out up-and-coming British players, then lose easily to some other nationality.
You are confusing past H2H with current form. She has beaten Kim, Venus, Justine and Jen in her current ranking points. She is now playing better than when she beat them.

You are missing apoint about the Russians too. Lindsay is always going to be a difficult opponent - she does not play tennis as most people do - she wins quick points which makes defeating her strategy impossible if she is on as her strategy is just to serve and hit a winner. Lindsay is not going to be around for long though. Myskina's opposition will be players she has beaten and/or players who may or may not recover from their present slumps or injuries and Russians. Russians already make up 40% of the top 10 and it will probably go higher. Those other Russians are going to be challenging the other players in the top 10 too. Thats why the strategically important matches this week were sharapova and Zvonereva. One got mauled the other got a long self-belief destroying execution. Why important? Just look at who the current giant killers are. Sharapova, kuznetsova , Zvonerava and Dementieva are going to share Myskina's workload taking down the other top ten players but if they can't beat her it will be Myskina that benefits..

fammmmedspin
Aug 2nd, 2004, 03:07 AM
It's not just about last night.

She needs to get a winning record against non-russian top players.
Bit difficult given the absence of the sisters and then the Belgians and now both..

Crazy Canuck
Aug 2nd, 2004, 05:13 AM
Either respond intelligently to the points being made, or if you are incapable of that, don't bother to post stupid comments.
I'll take the option C: Point and laugh at your bitter, unobjective babble ;)

Crazy Canuck
Aug 2nd, 2004, 05:15 AM
The entire point of this thread was so that Doc could find a twisted way to shout "Sharapova is the REAL number 1 Russian" from the rooftops. It doesn't have to make sense, it doesn't have to be logical. Being bitter will do this to you ;)

Crazy Canuck
Aug 2nd, 2004, 05:15 AM
Bit difficult given the absence of the sisters and then the Belgians and now both..
SENSE! Don't waste it on Doc!

shnit.
Aug 2nd, 2004, 05:34 AM
The entire point of this thread was so that Doc could find a twisted way to shout "Sharapova is the REAL number 1 Russian" from the rooftops. It doesn't have to make sense, it doesn't have to be logical. Being bitter will do this to you ;)that is what i wanna say abt Doc :p.. accept it, Myskina is the number one russian at the moment :)

Crazy Canuck
Aug 2nd, 2004, 05:39 AM
It's okay to want to say it! Wanting to say it and making stupid comments about the real top Russian at the moment in order to say it are two different things. She's only 17. Must we be so impatient with her? ;)

brunof
Aug 2nd, 2004, 06:01 AM
:confused: Who says Myskina isn't a top player herself? The girl has been ranked as high as #3, owns the Roland Garros title, and seven other titles. In my opinion this year Myskina has shown us all her resilence against players of all nations. I don't think it is always about who beats who and how many times, but rather who wins when it matters, and Myskina has done this. And to think, she has won more one more Grand Slam title than Mauremso, Clijsters, Davenport, Capriati, Venus have earned in the past 2 years combined! ;) :lol:

Crazy Canuck
Aug 2nd, 2004, 06:02 AM
:confused: Who says Myskina isn't a top player herself? The girl has been ranked as high as #3, owns the Roland Garros title, and seven other titles. In my opinion this year Myskina has shown us all her resilence against players of all nations. I don't think it is always about who beats who and how many times, but rather who wins when it matters, and Myskina has done this. And to think, she has won more one more Grand Slam title than Mauremso, Clijsters, Davenport, Capriati, Venus have earned in the past 2 years combined! ;) :lol:
More sense that simply doesn't belong in a Doc thread...

jojoseph
Aug 2nd, 2004, 06:23 AM
I don't like getting into gross and broad generalizations when it comes to just one match.

Talking just about the match today, the first thing that should jump out is the fact that Lindsay played absolutely incredible. If Nastya was gonna win today, she was gonna have to do two things that wasn't as much of a factor last night, and that was serve harder and not make hardly any mistakes. Because her serve was not very hard, Lindsay was able to control the pace of Myskina's serve, something Vera was just not adept at being able to constanly being able to do. And secondly, Lindsay took advantage of just about every mistake Nastya made, such as short shots, misplaced shots, lobs and such, IMO. I do think Nastya was slightly tired, but I don't think it was as much of a factor to be a reason for the loss. She really needs to work on her serve, it doesn't have to be huge, but it needs to get a lil bit faster, especially the second serve, IMO. One thing that was pretty funny was that Nastya was actually pretty calm as far as for yelling her coaches way :) , and yet she actually did worse than yesterday when she was practically kicking him off the court. lol It's wierd, cause whoever was in her corner, whether that was her sister or whatever, they acted as though that was the norm. :) I thought it was kinda funny, but in a good way. Whatever works, I guess. Anyway, major congrats to Lindsay on a great match. She definitely has been eating her Wheeties. lol Myskina could have won, but it would have took more work, and experience today.

Oh, special thanks goes out to SerenaVenusNo1 for giving me my first negative feedback score ever for my post in the Myskina saves 10 match points thread. For what, I'll prolly never know.

bandabou
Aug 2nd, 2004, 10:57 AM
It donīt matter...let the other russians do the hard work for her..when the others finish beating the Williams, the Belgians,etc....while Myskina only has to worry about beating her little sisters. Economical.

Doc
Aug 2nd, 2004, 12:31 PM
The entire point of this thread was so that Doc could find a twisted way to shout "Sharapova is the REAL number 1 Russian" from the rooftops. It doesn't have to make sense, it doesn't have to be logical. Being bitter will do this to you ;)

I presume you are trying to live up to your name, since you haven't made one intelligent or rational contribution to this thread so far.

What I must ask is why some people get so abusive and defensive when questions are asked about their faves?

So why is it that Myskina is fairly consistently getting drubbed anything up to 6-1 6-1 by the non-Russian Top tenners?

bandabou
Aug 2nd, 2004, 12:36 PM
I presume you are trying to live up to your name, since you haven't made one intelligent or rational contribution to this thread so far.

What I must ask is why some people get so abusive and defensive when questions are asked about their faves?

So why is it that Myskina is fairly consistently getting drubbed anything up to 6-1 6-1 by the non-Russian Top tenners?


doc, isnīt the question supposed to be: How can the other russians be so competitive against the other top 10 players but they canīt beat Myskina?!

Plus I donīt get what you saying about the other russians being competitive with the other top 10 players. Remember that before Wimbledon Maria wasnīt exactly gangbusters beating top 10 players and still has only TWO top 10 wins...and that goes for the rest of the russians as well.

sartrista7
Aug 2nd, 2004, 01:14 PM
This thread kind of restored a little bit of faith in WTAWorld seeing as EVERYONE in it has seen through Doc's initial semi-point as ridiculous twaddle.

So why is it that Myskina is fairly consistently getting drubbed anything up to 6-1 6-1 by the non-Russian Top tenners?

Except... she's not. On her ranking points this week:

Myskina d. Henin-Hardenne 3-6 6-3 6-3, F Leipzig
Myskina d. Mauresmo 6-2 6-4, F Moscow
Myskina d. Capriati 6-2 6-2, SF Doha
Myskina d. V Williams 6-3 6-4, QF Roland Garros
Myskina d. Capriati 6-2 6-2, SF Roland Garros

And that's not including her numerous wins over her fellow Russians.

The only two losses of the sort you describe, in fact, were the Henin-Hardenne match at Indian Wells (where Nastya was carrying a toe injury; she'd barely made it to the semis in the first place) and this Davenport match (eight hours after a 2 3/4 match the night before).

Also, when referring to Nastya's negative head-to-head against certain top players, you fail to take into account the fact that she's only really been an elite player herself since last autumn. She hasn't played Serena since then, and Davenport only once. Hardly fair to criticise her for not having beaten them.

bandabou
Aug 2nd, 2004, 01:22 PM
This thread kind of restored a little bit of faith in WTAWorld seeing as EVERYONE in it has seen through Doc's initial semi-point as ridiculous twaddle.



Except... she's not. On her ranking points this week:

Myskina d. Henin-Hardenne 3-6 6-3 6-3, F Leipzig
Myskina d. Mauresmo 6-2 6-4, F Moscow
Myskina d. Capriati 6-2 6-2, SF Doha
Myskina d. V Williams 6-3 6-4, QF Roland Garros
Myskina d. Capriati 6-2 6-2, SF Roland Garros

And that's not including her numerous wins over her fellow Russians.

The only two losses of the sort you describe, in fact, were the Henin-Hardenne match at Indian Wells (where Nastya was carrying a toe injury; she'd barely made it to the semis in the first place) and this Davenport match (eight hours after a 2 3/4 match the night before).

Also, when referring to Nastya's negative head-to-head against certain top players, you fail to take into account the fact that she's only really been an elite player herself since last autumn. She hasn't played Serena since then, and Davenport only once. Hardly fair to criticise her for not having beaten them.



Man, youīre good! weīll see how beloved Maria fares from now on. No excuses anymore for being unable of beating top 10 players, etc.

xan
Aug 2nd, 2004, 02:07 PM
Just looked up some of the head to heads.

V HENIN

SF Indian W. Mar 21 2004 J Henin-Hardenne(1) - A Myskina(4) 6-1 6-1
RR Championsh Nov 9 2003 J Henin-Hardenne(2) - A Myskina(5) 7-5 5-7 7-5
F Leipzig Sep 28 2003 A Myskina(3) - J Henin-Hardenne(2) 3-6 6-3 6-3
QF US Open Sep 7 2003 J Henin-Hardenne(2) - A Myskina(7) 6-2 6-3
QF Dubai Feb 23 2003 J Henin-Hardenne(1) - A Myskina(5) 6-1 6-4
2 New Haven Aug 25 2002 A Myskina - J Henin-Hardenne(4) 7-62 6-2
1 Palermo July 16 2000 J Henin-Hardenne - A Myskina(3) 7-5 6-2

V CAPRIATI

SF Roland G. June 6 2004 A Myskina(6) - J Capriati(7) 6-2 6-2
QF Berlin May 9 2004 J Capriati(6) - A Myskina(4) 6-3 6-2
SF Doha Mar 7 2004 A Myskina(3) - J Capriati(2) 6-2 6-2
RR Championsh Nov 9 2003 J Capriati(3) - A Myskina(5) 7-5 5-7 6-4
4 Wimbledon July 6 2003 J Capriati(8) - A Myskina(10) 6-2 6-3
QF Charleston Apr 21 2002 J Capriati(1) - A Myskina 6-0 7-5
3 Key Bisc. Mar 31 2002 J Capriati(1) - A Myskina(32) 3-6 7-5 6-2

V SERENA

F Leipzig Sep 29 2002 S Williams(1) - A Myskina(6) 6-3 6-2
QF Rome May 19 2002 S Williams(4) - A Myskina 6-3 6-4

V DAVENPORT

F Acura July 2003 L Davenport - A Myskina 6-1 6-1
Hopman Cup Jan 11 2004 L Davenport - A Myskina 6-4 6-4
SF New Haven Aug 25 2002 L Davenport(2) - A Myskina 6-2 6-2
2 New Haven Aug 26 2001 L Davenport(1) - A Myskina-Q 6-2 6-1


V KIM

QF Australian O. Feb 1 2004 K Clijsters(2) - A Myskina(6) 6-2 7-69
SF Leipzig Sep 28 2003 A Myskina(3) - K Clijsters(1) 5-7 4-4 (retirement when leading)
QF Rome May 18 2003 K Clijsters(2) - A Myskina(8) 6-2 6-2
QF Australian O. Jan 26 2003 K Clijsters(4) - A Myskina(8) 6-2 6-4
1 Filderst. Oct 13 2002 K Clijsters(6) - A Myskina 6-4 6-2
SF Leipzig Sep 29 2002 A Myskina(6) - K Clijsters(4) 6-4 5-7 7-63
2 Wimbledon July 9 2000 A Myskina - K Clijsters 6-4 6-2


It all seems to back what doc was saying rarther than sartrista..

sartrista7
Aug 2nd, 2004, 02:23 PM
For those who can't read the first time round:

Also, when referring to Nastya's negative head-to-head against certain top players, you fail to take into account the fact that she's only really been an elite player herself since last autumn. She hasn't played Serena since then, and Davenport only once. Hardly fair to criticise her for not having beaten them.

xan
Aug 2nd, 2004, 02:33 PM
Originally Posted by sartrista7
Also, when referring to Nastya's negative head-to-head against certain top players, you fail to take into account the fact that she's only really been an elite player herself since last autumn

Huh? She's been around Top Ten level since 2002.

sartrista7
Aug 2nd, 2004, 02:39 PM
Huh? She's been around Top Ten level since 2002.

There's a difference between "top ten player" and "elite player"... otherwise we'd be taking into account Nastya's dominance over the non-elite top tenners like Rubin and Dementieva as well. Not to mention her ownage of Sharapova, which is what this thread is really all about :tape:

xan
Aug 2nd, 2004, 02:43 PM
There's a difference between "top ten player" and "elite player"... otherwise we'd be taking into account Nastya's dominance over the non-elite top tenners like Rubin and Dementieva as well. Not to mention her ownage of Sharapova, which is what this thread is really all about :tape:You're the one bringing Sharapova into this. :rolleyes: As far as I can see, the thread is about Myskina's inability to beat other top players consistently.

As for "elite player" by your definition being better than "top ten", then I don't see how Nastya can claim to be "elite" even now without consistent victories over the Top ten.

!<blocparty>!
Aug 2nd, 2004, 02:46 PM
There's a difference between "top ten player" and "elite player"... otherwise we'd be taking into account Nastya's dominance over the non-elite top tenners like Rubin and Dementieva as well. Not to mention her ownage of Sharapova, which is what this thread is really all about :tape:
You still think of Myskina as an elite player then?

sartrista7
Aug 2nd, 2004, 02:47 PM
You're the one bringing Sharapova into this. :rolleyes: As far as I can see, the thread is about Myskina's inability to beat other top players consistently.

As for "elite player" by your definition being better than "top ten", then I don't see how Nastya can claim to be "elite" even now without consistent victories over the Top ten.

She's won a Slam, has hung around the top five for the best part of this year and has started to gain wins over her fellow elite players.

Everything Doc says is ultimately about Sharapova :tape:

xan
Aug 2nd, 2004, 02:54 PM
I just present the facts, mate. if you don't like the facts, stick your head back in the sand.

deckham
Aug 2nd, 2004, 03:04 PM
i think elite will speak for itself when she is the number 2 player in the world at the end of the rogers cup.... ;)

Beat
Aug 2nd, 2004, 03:08 PM
"potential" slam-winner???

bandabou
Aug 2nd, 2004, 04:27 PM
The point is: NONE of the Russian girls are beating the other top 10īers consistently. No even Maria who has been hailed as the greatest ever since Martina N and Steffi G....only means that Myskina just is the better russian h2h.