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View Full Version : Congrats to cal linesmen


Nastyafan
Jul 31st, 2004, 08:46 PM
They beat Elena. They were the worse (biased) linesmen I have ever seen.
And Davenport showed abominable behaviour.After gifting at least 3 points in the most crucial game she argued with the umpire about a clear point and wheedled another one later.
And so many people here contend she is the nicest player
She is a bitch:devil: (http://www.wtaworld.com/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=34#):devil: (http://www.wtaworld.com/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=34#):devil: (http://www.wtaworld.com/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=34#)

foreva lindsay
Jul 31st, 2004, 08:48 PM
on court and off court are different situations ;)

faboozadoo15
Jul 31st, 2004, 08:51 PM
i don't think the linespeople were biased toward lindsay... they were just horrible. and elena got a bunch of really horrible calls that really could have changed the complexion of the match. for one, she should have been up 2-1 instead of down 2-1.
but credit to lindsay, she did play a great match and really toom it to elena and played very consistent and moved incredibly well in the first set.

Andrew.
Jul 31st, 2004, 08:52 PM
Give it up.

volley1
Jul 31st, 2004, 08:53 PM
They beat Elena. They were the worse (biased) linesmen I have ever seen.
And Davenport showed abominable behaviour.After gifting at least 3 points in the most crucial game she argued with the umpire about a clear point and wheedled another one later.
And so many people here contend she is the nicest player
She is a bitch:devil: (http://www.wtaworld.com/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=34#):devil: (http://www.wtaworld.com/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=34#):devil: (http://www.wtaworld.com/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=34#)
Some people don't know this, but, Davenport uses gamesmanship more than any other player out there. She's been doing this for years.

faboozadoo15
Jul 31st, 2004, 08:56 PM
Give it up.
:confused: is that to me?
im glad lindsay won, but i'm just saying it's unfortunate that elena got so many horrible calls.

Andrew.
Jul 31st, 2004, 08:56 PM
Really? Not.

Andrew.
Jul 31st, 2004, 08:56 PM
:confused: is that to me?
im glad lindsay won, but i'm just saying it's unfortunate that elena got so many horrible calls.
No, to the thread starter. You're good.

bmxbandit
Jul 31st, 2004, 08:56 PM
Actually, if you watched the match...bad calls went both ways :/

hotandspicey
Jul 31st, 2004, 08:57 PM
They both got bad calls.Shit happens!!! Talk to Vee about that!!!!!

thelittlestelf
Jul 31st, 2004, 08:58 PM
Lindsay would NEVER question a call if she didn't think it was out (or in). The linesmen were drunk today.

vaiva
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:00 PM
Linespeople were awful for some time of the match. But the calls went against both players. Unfortunately, the bad calls came at crucial points for Lena.

Every palyer has the right to question dubious calls. It's perfectly within the rules. Can hardy blame Lindsay, even though I dearly wanted Lena to win :(

Nastyafan
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:06 PM
both ways?
i didn't notice when Elena was favoured.
but it was damn clear lindsay's out for 2-1 and the situation wnen she yelled the ball touched the line i saw it
she may THINK that every her ball is in , and opponent's one is out, maybe there is no need of linesmen, lindsay may judge instead of them

Nastyafan
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:10 PM
Linespeople were awful for some time of the match. But the calls went against both players. Unfortunately, the bad calls came at crucial points for Lena.

Every palyer has the right to question dubious calls. It's perfectly within the rules. Can hardy blame Lindsay, even though I dearly wanted Lena to win :(
argueing like that deserves at least a penalty point, i had a feeling she would beat the umpire

azza
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:12 PM
Give it up.
Can't Handle the truth.

Crazy_Fool
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:13 PM
They beat Elena. They were the worse (biased) linesmen I have ever seen.
And Davenport showed abominable behaviour.After gifting at least 3 points in the most crucial game she argued with the umpire about a clear point and wheedled another one later.
And so many people here contend she is the nicest player
She is a bitch
Please, are you a sore loser or what? If you think they were the most biased linesman you obviously didn't watch all of Roddicks matches at the US Open last year.

And she is not a bitch as you put it, so what if she made a few calls about descisions, alot of players do it. In my opinion its good for her to be like tht, it shows shes motivated.

tterb
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:15 PM
The first time Lindsay talked to the chair was on an overrule of a shot of hers that looked very much in. The second time, she argued a shot of Elena's was out that was shown to have clipped the line. She was wrong the second time, but players are wrong sometimes - that doesn't mean they shouldn't question line calls they don't believe are accurate. There were about two bad calls against Lindsay, including the first one that she argued. There were maybe three or four against Elena, including that crucial point at 1-1 where Lindsay's shot that was clearly out was called good. It was sad that particular call came at such a big moment, because it truly could have influenced the match. I felt bad for Elena, though I think Lindsay would have pulled it out anyway.

Overall, this match was just poorly officiated. I don't see why Lindsay shouldn't have questioned the line calls after so many poor calls, and it's ludicrous to just assume she was trying to influence the future line calls in her favor. If Elena's rhythm was thrown off by Lindsay questioning the chair, then she needs to stay mentally tougher. And you do realize that Elena questioned the chair, too, don't you?

DEETHELICK
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:15 PM
Our commentators, who love Lindsay btw, even said they found her behaviour in that game very disappointing (or words to that effect).

vaiva
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:21 PM
argueing like that deserves at least a penalty point, i had a feeling she would beat the umpire

Let's not get overdrammatic.

Lena got robbed of the game. Tough. Unfair. But it's just how it is.

Andrew.
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:24 PM
This is like what people did to Justine at the Australian Open....

Peer101
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:28 PM
Actually, if you watched the match...bad calls went both ways :/


Yea maybe Lindsay had one bad one

but Elena got so many

tterb
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:30 PM
I don't think any player has NEVER once done something that can be construed as 'trying to influence the linespeople.' But arguing calls you think are wrong is not the evil deed people would like to make it out to be. :rolleyes:

Yes, the one line call at 1-1 was terrible. And it sucks that it was on a big point. But there were bad calls all around, one against Lindsay that same game. And one point almost never costs a person the match. Elena had the whole rest of the second set to turn things around, and if she hadn't hit so many double faults that game, she probably wouldn't have had to worry about the bad call. Shit happens to everyone. It's not fair, but you have to try to overcome it.

casanovalover
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:32 PM
bad calls happen buddy. i saw dementieva argue a ton of calls against kleinova at wimbledon were she was clearly wrong.

she lost 6-2, 6-4 - it's not as if the match was close. get a life and stop getting so upset over tennis matches.

casanovalover
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:34 PM
there are no crucial games when at 2-1 in a set in women's tennis, especially when you can't even serve so breaking means nothing

Nastyafan
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:34 PM
The first time Lindsay talked to the chair was on an overrule of a shot of hers that looked very much in. The second time, she argued a shot of Elena's was out that was shown to have clipped the line. She was wrong the second time, but players are wrong sometimes - that doesn't mean they shouldn't question line calls they don't believe are accurate. There were about two bad calls against Lindsay, including the first one that she argued. There were maybe three or four against Elena, including that crucial point at 1-1 where Lindsay's shot that was clearly out was called good. It was sad that particular call came at such a big moment, because it truly could have influenced the match. I felt bad for Elena, though I think Lindsay would have pulled it out anyway.

Overall, this match was just poorly officiated. I don't see why Lindsay shouldn't have questioned the line calls after so many poor calls, and it's ludicrous to just assume she was trying to influence the future line calls in her favor. If Elena's rhythm was thrown off by Lindsay questioning the chair, then she needs to stay mentally tougher. And you do realize that Elena questioned the chair, too, don't you?
Don't you realize the difference between the way Elena and Lindsay were argueing.Elena just showed her frustration, but how many times did she come to umpire and yelled?
Do you think if in soccer one player shows a surprise from the umpire's decision and another slaps in the face the same umpire, they both will get the same penalty ?

Andrew.
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:36 PM
OMG Lindsay that BITCH.

casanovalover
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:37 PM
Don't you realize the difference between the way Elena and Lindsay were argueing.Elena just showed her frustration, but how many times did she come to umpire and yelled?
Do you think if in soccer one player shows a surprise from the umpire's decision and another slaps in the face the same umpire, they both will get the same penalty ?

boy you're really clutching at straws aren't you. it's ok, you're right, the whole world is out to get you and russian tennis players. bad world, bad lindsay.

Crazy_Fool
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:37 PM
bad calls happen buddy. i saw dementieva argue a ton of calls against kleinova at wimbledon were she was clearly wrong.

she lost 6-2, 6-4 - it's not as if the match was close. get a life and stop getting so upset over tennis matches.
lol, i agree. i just hate people who suggest that was the reason why someone lost. i mean can you be 150% sure she would have won with those calls, don't think so.

Crazy_Fool
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:39 PM
This is like what people did to Justine at the Australian Open....
Yeah, ignore it, its just jealousy that their player lost ;)

tterb
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:42 PM
Don't you realize the difference between the way Elena and Lindsay were argueing.Elena just showed her frustration, but how many times did she come to umpire and yelled?
Do you think if in soccer one player shows a surprise from the umpire's decision and another slaps in the face the same umpire, they both will get the same penalty ?

My goodness, you're right! I completely forgot how Lindsay used physical violence to make the umpire see her point. Terrible analogy. :rolleyes:

Just showing her frustration? What do you think Lindsay was doing? She walked up to the net and talked to the umpire. She was obviously pissed, but it's not like she was screaming, throwing a tantrum, threatening the umpire, etc.

Look, arguing a call is not something new. Every player has done it. And it doesn't make it somehow a worse thing to argue a call, just because she was wrong in this case. She's human. Players are wrong about line calls all the time.

You're coming off as sounding extremely biased here. I don't think Lindsay should have argued about the call for that long, but I'm sure it looked out to her mind. I don't think she did anything to gain some sort of an advantage like you seem to be suggesting. Look, I'm sure you're just upset about the bad calls against Elena and you're taking it out on Lindsay. And I'm sorry that Elena got a few bad calls... But that happens all the time. It didn't lose the entire match for her.

faboozadoo15
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:43 PM
there are no crucial games when at 2-1 in a set in women's tennis, especially when you can't even serve so breaking means nothing
you're crazy to think that winning a game, getting a bad call, and then losing it doesn't make a difference.
even with that, elena had a break point to make it 5-5. the second set WAS close... and it would have been different with different calls, surely. you just can't overlook it.

BUT to say lindsay was being a bad sport is a little ridiculous. she very rarely argues calls and just wasn't seeing a few really well. i think everything was working for her SO well that she expected everything to go in, and that was why she reacted the way she did.

Nastyafan
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:50 PM
I don't think any player has NEVER once done something that can be construed as 'trying to influence the linespeople.' But arguing calls you think are wrong is not the evil deed people would like to make it out to be. :rolleyes:

Yes, the one line call at 1-1 was terrible. And it sucks that it was on a big point. But there were bad calls all around, one against Lindsay that same game. And one point almost never costs a person the match. Elena had the whole rest of the second set to turn things around, and if she hadn't hit so many double faults that game, she probably wouldn't have had to worry about the bad call. Shit happens to everyone. It's not fair, but you have to try to overcome it.I can immediately point one player that regularly tries to influence the linespeople, but won't name her because her fans will jump on me too, but I think most of people will guess who she is
And it wasn't 1 point, in my opinion Lena was robed at least 3-4 points. But it's more important not the point, but the psychological affect of this point. The players are human and no one can accept iniquities with indifference

casanovalover
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:58 PM
you're crazy to think that winning a game, getting a bad call, and then losing it doesn't make a difference.
even with that, elena had a break point to make it 5-5. the second set WAS close... and it would have been different with different calls, surely. you just can't overlook it.



i'm not saying it makes no difference but i definitely take issue with people who say it was the deciding factor in the match as if it gave her match points or even a slightly imposing lead - was it not only 1 service hold (ok i admit that is a big thing for elena). she lost the first 6-2, trailed 5-2 in the 2nd, oh but wait had a breakpoint for 5-5!!!! did i just imagine davenport limping around after injuring her knee at 5-3?

dementieva serve is so weak that you can't make conclusions about what a 2-1 led would have meant for her.

Steff_forever
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:58 PM
bad calls happen buddy. i saw dementieva argue a ton of calls against kleinova at wimbledon were she was clearly wrong.

she lost 6-2, 6-4 - it's not as if the match was close. get a life and stop getting so upset over tennis matches. So you havn't witnessed that Alyona was really close to a 5-5 in the second when Lindsay got shakey once again. And the last 5-5-scenario we have seen has been in the final of Amelia Island 2003 ... ;)

The first time Lindsay talked to the chair was on an overrule of a shot of hers that looked very much in. The second time, she argued a shot of Elena's was out that was shown to have clipped the line. She was wrong the second time, but players are wrong sometimes - that doesn't mean they shouldn't question line calls they don't believe are accurate. There were about two bad calls against Lindsay, including the first one that she argued. There were maybe three or four against Elena, including that crucial point at 1-1 where Lindsay's shot that was clearly out was called good. It was sad that particular call came at such a big moment, because it truly could have influenced the match. (sorry for wrong quote)
No. There has been no overrule of the clear fh-cc by Linds that was beside the line right beneath the umpire's feet. We have had a *Adv-40 in favor of Aloyna so the game should have gone to Alyona (2-1*). But what really made me angry was Lindsay debating 3 times in a row to break Alyona's rythm. That was obvious. Lindsay forced a DF (the 7th :smash: ). But don't tell me Lindsay wouldn't have made one in the same situation. She doublefaulted yesterday at 5-0 *0-15 vs Sugiyama and lost serve when serving for the set. And today she was shakey in serving set or match out, too. So she influenced Alyona in a bad way. I will remind you when we talk about an all-time sportsmanship of Lindsay. This was the opposite.

faboozadoo15
Jul 31st, 2004, 10:01 PM
i'm not saying it makes no difference but i definitely take issue with people who say it was the deciding factor in the match as if it gave her match points or even a slightly imposing lead - was it not only 1 service hold (ok i admit that is a big thing for elena). she lost the first 6-2, trailed 5-2 in the 2nd, oh but wait had a breakpoint for 5-5!!!! did i just imagine davenport limping around after injuring her knee at 5-3?

dementieva serve is so weak that you can't make conclusions about what a 2-1 led would have meant for her.
yea, i also noticed that elena hit a couple of screaming winners to get it close again...
no matter, lindsay won and played better for a vast majority of the match. im just a little disappointed because we could have seen a third set instead of women's POKER!

Nastyafan
Jul 31st, 2004, 10:07 PM
My goodness, you're right! I completely forgot how Lindsay used physical violence to make the umpire see her point. Terrible analogy. :rolleyes:

Just showing her frustration? What do you think Lindsay was doing? She walked up to the net and talked to the umpire. She was obviously pissed, but it's not like she was screaming, throwing a tantrum, threatening the umpire, etc.

Look, arguing a call is not something new. Every player has done it. And it doesn't make it somehow a worse thing to argue a call, just because she was wrong in this case. She's human. Players are wrong about line calls all the time.

You're coming off as sounding extremely biased here. I don't think Lindsay should have argued about the call for that long, but I'm sure it looked out to her mind. I don't think she did anything to gain some sort of an advantage like you seem to be suggesting. Look, I'm sure you're just upset about the bad calls against Elena and you're taking it out on Lindsay. And I'm sorry that Elena got a few bad calls... But that happens all the time. It didn't lose the entire match for her.
She WAS screaming, if you didnt hear maybe the problem is yours
Argueing isn't so bad, but when you are OBVIOUSLY favoured with previous calls, when even the biased American audience noticed that, argueing in such a demonstative way to say the least is impudence

Andrew.
Jul 31st, 2004, 10:12 PM
She WAS screaming, if you didnt hear maybe the problem is yours
Argueing isn't so bad, but when you are OBVIOUSLY favoured with previous calls, when even the biased American audience noticed that, argueing in such a demonstative way to say the least is impudence
As a Myskina fan, you are not one to be talking about players screaming.

tterb
Jul 31st, 2004, 10:17 PM
Well, NastyaFan and DaniDoki-addict, after this I won't take further issue with what you perceive to have happened. But the fact is, you're making assumptions about Lindsay's motives when you have no idea for sure what she was thinking... unless you are both mind readers. She was upset and questioned a few calls. I don't think Lindsay needs to resort to gamesmanship to beat Elena... she won the first set 6-2. If someone questioning a call is all it takes to rattle Elena, then I feel sorry for her.

I'm sorry it happened that way. The linespeople really should have done a better job today. But in my opinion, if Lindsay was trying to break up Elena's rhythm by arguing calls, it's no different than taking your time walking around the baseline between points. And I don't believe she was trying to influence the calls, I just think she was upset at what she thought were bad calls. However, obviously we will all believe what we want, as we can't be inside Lindsay's head. ;)

I agree with casanovalover in that one point could obviously have had a huge effect on the outcome, but it wasn't the deciding factor. Elena had a break point for 5-5 in the set, so she was still in it. I'm sure it had psychological effects on Elena, and that's unfortunate. But you can't look at that one call that early in the set and say, if Elena had won the game, the match was hers.

Steff_forever
Jul 31st, 2004, 10:18 PM
@andrew

apart from that issue
How are you feeling now after Lindsay recovered from that Wimby-defeat ?
I hope you change your lines beneath your avatar once again if she's #1 in a few weeks. And she will be, with or without bad line-calls ;)

Black Mamba.
Jul 31st, 2004, 10:19 PM
There is nothing that can be done about the bad calls now, the match is over. Sometimes the calls just don't go in your favorite's way you just move on and hope it's better in the next match.

Steff_forever
Jul 31st, 2004, 10:26 PM
Well, NastyaFan and DaniDoki-addict, after this I won't take further issue with what you perceive to have happened. But the fact is, you're making assumptions about Lindsay's motives when you have no idea for sure what she was thinking... unless you are both mind readers. She was upset and questioned a few calls. I don't think Lindsay needs to resort to gamesmanship to beat Elena... she won the first set 6-2. If someone questioning a call is all it takes to rattle Elena, then I feel sorry for her.

I'm sorry it happened that way. The linespeople really should have done a better job today. But in my opinion, if Lindsay was trying to break up Elena's rhythm by arguing calls, it's no different than taking your time walking around the baseline between points. And I don't believe she was trying to influence the calls, I just think she was upset at what she thought were bad calls. However, obviously we will all believe what we want, as we can't be inside Lindsay's head. ;)

I agree with casanovalover in that one point could obviously have had a huge effect on the outcome, but it wasn't the deciding factor. Elena had a break point for 5-5 in the set, so she was still in it. I'm sure it had psychological effects on Elena, and that's unfortunate. But you can't look at that one call that early in the set and say, if Elena had won the game, the match was hers.
I don't say Lindsay questioned the calls or none-calls in order to rattle Alyona. I just say she should have picked up a certain feeling for the tense situation. But she hasn't.

Lindsay won right. But this 3rd game in the 2nd was crucial for Alyona. And she lost it because of her nerves. That could also have happened to Lindsay after a possible 5-5.

Steff_forever
Jul 31st, 2004, 10:29 PM
There is nothing that can be done about the bad calls now, the match is over. Sometimes the calls just don't go in your favorite's way you just move on and hope it's better in the next match.
well said.
Lindsay's gained the 3rd final spot and I like that cause I wish she grabs the #1 one more time before her retirement.

Nastyafan
Jul 31st, 2004, 10:40 PM
I have never said that Lena would have won without the bad linecalls. But it could have happened. We will never know that. Now I only know that Lindsay was obviously favoured by linespeople and she showed abominable behavior.
I'm almost sure she will be tolerated the same way in USO, -she should receive her present in her "last year", and she won't retire.

And andrew I don't remember Nastya screaming to umpires or linesmen or argueing in such a way

CC
Jul 31st, 2004, 11:29 PM
Viva Lindsay. :dance:

volta
Aug 1st, 2004, 12:14 AM
they were crazy today it was 1 of the worse that iīve seen.
no Dementieva didnīt lost because the baseliner she lost cuz Lindsay played better (donīt forget that they did almost the same 2 Lindsay) but yeah i know that affected Demetieva game but Lindsay is playing some of her best Tennis

Andrew.
Aug 1st, 2004, 01:23 AM
I have never said that Lena would have won without the bad linecalls. But it could have happened. We will never know that. Now I only know that Lindsay was obviously favoured by linespeople and she showed abominable behavior.
I'm almost sure she will be tolerated the same way in USO, -she should receive her present in her "last year", and she won't retire.

And andrew I don't remember Nastya screaming to umpires or linesmen or argueing in such a way
:haha: Myskina's behavior can be freakish on court. Screaming at random people, breaking things. I don't know how you can say Lindsay's behavior is bad when you have a stunning example of bad behavior right in your own fave.

tazban1
Aug 1st, 2004, 01:24 AM
I noticed there were bad calls, but I didn't think much of it because there's always bad calls and Elena most likely would have lost anyway. Though, I did take issue with the crowd. I was starting to think they were taking a cue from the French Open crowds - there were at least two times that I noticed them wildly cheering Elena's double faults (probably more, but I didn't watch the whole match very closely), they would whistle whenever Elena argued a call, even though she was often right but were fine with Lindsay arguing correct calls. I'm not normally one of those people that complain about the crowds, after all, they're almost always biased, and I guess I can sort of understand whistling arguing since they didn't know for sure whether the ball was in or out, but to cheer double faults is ridiculous.

Oneofakind0490
Aug 1st, 2004, 01:30 AM
Natashafan you say the linesmen were biased you seem to be biased toward Dementieva because your a fan of hers.

Nastyafan
Aug 1st, 2004, 06:15 AM
Of course I'm biased, but in some moments it was obviously even for the American crowd and they showed that.

For these who didn't hear lindsay screaming - it's from yahoo and i doubt they are in Lena's favour:
They needed seven deuces in the third game before Dementieva double-faulted to trail 2-1. There were several controversial calls in the game, prompting Davenport to make her third trip of the match to the chair umpire when the Russian's forehand on the baseline was called good, giving Dementieva the advantage.
Davenport yelled, raised her arms, came to the net and dropped her racket. ``Did you see it in? That's all I want to know,'' she asked before retreating to the baseline.

LuckyStrike
Aug 1st, 2004, 10:04 AM
Linds was tired !!! She had never won a 3rd Set!!!
She won the first one cuz she played better. The second was Luck and the good Will of the Ref. and the Linesmen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

chris whiteside
Aug 1st, 2004, 10:17 AM
Line calls are questions of judgement. There's not much you can do about them But this match surely reinforces the argument for using modern technology to decide them?