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iloveazza
Jul 31st, 2004, 06:27 PM
they would still be dominating the tour just like they had been before the injuries foreced them out?

Of course nobody knows what things would be like. One can only speculate.
I think given they were quite dominant and winning pretty much everything important where there was before injuries hampered their domination. It's a big shame that everyone some new faces emerge, the top players have to get injured and we never see those dominating and those up n coming face off at their best.

Hant Hant
Jul 31st, 2004, 06:28 PM
fo' sure. JHH would have won the French Open and Wimbledon.

Ivan C
Jul 31st, 2004, 06:33 PM
Sharapova would have still won wimbledon.

Hant Hant
Jul 31st, 2004, 06:36 PM
Sharapova definitely has a chance, but if Justine was healthy like she was, I think Justine would have won Wimbledon. After all, the Wimbledon was Justine's first grand slam final and she was so young and stretched Venus to 3 sets.

Ivan C
Jul 31st, 2004, 06:43 PM
Sharapova definitely has a chance, but if Justine was healthy like she was, I think Justine would have won Wimbledon. After all, the Wimbledon was Justine's first grand slam final and she was so young and stretched Venus to 3 sets.

I'm not sure if grass is henin's best court. Grass is Sharapova's best though. I mean henin's has had many attempts at wimbledon and hasn't won before, and sharapova is only 17 therefore i think maria has the edge.

Filip!
Jul 31st, 2004, 06:59 PM
dunno about Wimbledon because I didn't saw her playing this year on grass, but it was the main goal this season, so she was probably preparing this grand slam very carefully... Anyway, Juju was really dominating before she was out... so yes, with her still playing, she would still be great... Now, it will be something different, she'll have to come back after a long period without matches, just look at the Williams-sisters, it's very though...

Kim was also playing great, so I don't see players who could stop the Belgians...

le bon vivant
Jul 31st, 2004, 07:02 PM
Sharapova would have still won wimbledon.
IRRATIONAL FAN ALERT!!!! LOL, j/k Ivan C.

If Kim and Justine were still around and at optimum health, either one of them or both of them would have won the French and Wimbledon. Serena was choking that final to whoever she was playing against that day, I believe.

Ivan C
Jul 31st, 2004, 07:05 PM
IRRATIONAL FAN ALERT!!!! LOL, j/k Ivan C.

If Kim and Justine were still around and at optimum health, either one of them or both of them would have won the French and Wimbledon. Serena was choking that final to whoever she was playing against that day, I believe.

You are so biased. What makes you think she wouldn't have won?

le bon vivant
Jul 31st, 2004, 07:08 PM
You are so biased. What makes you think she wouldn't have won?
Because Maria played superior at Wimbledon, thats why she won it, but Justine would have slaughtered her, and Kim would have done the same. We saw last night that Maria is still not on the level of a Top 5 player yet. Top 10 maybe, but not Top 5.

Sharapova is a Slam champion now, and I dont think she can handle the pressure of everyone playing outside of themselves to beat you, because now a win over you means something.

Maria would have gone well at Wimbledon until she met either Kim or Justine, and her WImbledon would have been over. JHH and Kim are superior players.

Ivan C
Jul 31st, 2004, 07:10 PM
Because Maria played superior at Wimbledon, thats why she won it, but Justine would have slaughtered her, and Kim would have done the same. We saw last night that Maria is still not on the level of a Top 5 player yet. Top 10 maybe, but not Top 5.

Sharapova is a Slam champion now, and I dont think she can handle the pressure of everyone playing outside of themselves to beat you, because now a win over you means something.

Maria would have gone well at Wimbledon until she met either Kim or Justine, and her WImbledon would have been over. JHH and Kim are superior players.

Thats bullshit. Henin has had plenty of chances to win wimbledon and has never done it. Kim hasn't even won a grand slam, to say they WOULD have slaughtered Maria is a joke. COMPLETELY irrational.

Whats happened and hppened, nothing would have changed it, nothing ever will.

Filip!
Jul 31st, 2004, 07:16 PM
Thats bullshit. Henin has had plenty of chances to win wimbledon and has never done it. Kim hasn't even won a grand slam, to say they WOULD have slaughtered Maria is a joke. COMPLETELY irrational.

Whats happened and hppened, nothing would have changed it, nothing ever will.

Maria is not dominating the tour like the 2 Belgians were doing. That's the reality right now!

le bon vivant
Jul 31st, 2004, 07:18 PM
Thats bullshit. Henin has had plenty of chances to win wimbledon and has never done it. Kim hasn't even won a grand slam, to say they WOULD have slaughtered Maria is a joke. COMPLETELY irrational.

Whats happened and hppened, nothing would have changed it, nothing ever will.
Yes, but if Maria was stomped by Myskina today, how the hell do you think she would have fared against the Belgians, who stomp on Myskina!

Maria is Top 10, not Top 5.

Doc
Jul 31st, 2004, 07:45 PM
Yes, but if Maria was stomped by Myskina today, how the hell do you think she would have fared against the Belgians, who stomp on Myskina!

Maria is Top 10, not Top 5.

You clearly haven't looked into this in any depth. Just because player A beats player B who beat player C, doesn't mean that player A can beat player C. There are different styles, backgrounds, associated baggage, etc. Start looking up some of the player records etc.

The fact is the whole idea of trying to "theorise" what "would" have happened if X or Y had been at tournament Z in full health is a waste of time. If Suzanne Lenglen had been at Wimbledon 2003, maybe she would have beaten Serena and taken the title! All we know is that neither Kim nor justine have taken Wimbledon when they were there and healthy. End of story.

le bon vivant
Jul 31st, 2004, 08:11 PM
You clearly haven't looked into this in any depth. Just because player A beats player B who beat player C, doesn't mean that player A can beat player C. There are different styles, backgrounds, associated baggage, etc. Start looking up some of the player records etc.

The fact is the whole idea of trying to "theorise" what "would" have happened if X or Y had been at tournament Z in full health is a waste of time. If Suzanne Lenglen had been at Wimbledon 2003, maybe she would have beaten Serena and taken the title! All we know is that neither Kim nor justine have taken Wimbledon when they were there and healthy. End of story. Kim and Justine have also never had a Wimbledon as top players where both Williamses were ailing.

And on a level playing field, of course just because player A beats player B who beat player C, doesn't mean that player A can beat player C. But that goes for top 5 players, i.e. Mauresmo, Serena, Venus, Lindsay, Kim, Myskina, Justine, etc. MARIA is not on Kim and Justine's level, and neither is Myskina on most days! This is women's tennis, there is little depth in the field. Please, step outside of your fanaticism and think critically. I am not a Kim or JHH fan, and I have nothing against Sharapova, so I am speaking without bias.

I am not attempting to rewrite history, the question was asked, and I gave my opinion.

justine&coria
Jul 31st, 2004, 08:14 PM
Last year, at Wimbledon, Serena was playing outstanding : Justine was a bit "scared" and didn't play near her best : that's why she got thrashed by Serena. This year, she would have been more determined and would probably have won it !

Sharapova definitely wouldn't have thrashed the Serena of last year the way she did at Wimby : she might have won the match but not this way.

But, I really think that Sharapova wouldn't have won Wimbledon, had Justine and Kim being there. And maybe, the fact of Justine and Kim playing would have brought out the bests of Serena and Venus.

BUt of course, those are just ifs : anyway, what's sure is that Serena of last year was a lot lot stronger than what she showed in the Wimbledon finals.

shap_half
Jul 31st, 2004, 08:16 PM
Thats bullshit. Henin has had plenty of chances to win wimbledon and has never done it. Kim hasn't even won a grand slam, to say they WOULD have slaughtered Maria is a joke. COMPLETELY irrational.

Whats happened and hppened, nothing would have changed it, nothing ever will.

Noone's saying that anything can change the past. Noone can. It's been done. But what people are doing are speculating. You're just being irrational. The only match that Justine loss this season was to Kuznetsova when she was healthy. She was already showing signs of fatigue in the Vera match at AI and therefore I think that her loss to Amelie was just the biproduct of the effects of the virus she incurred later that month. Her loss to Garbin says nothing of what kind of player Justine is.

Justine would have demolished Maria. I firmly believe that a healthy Justine is just not a match for Sharapova. They once played an exhibition in Decemeber and Justine defeated Sharapova after having saved 9 MPS. I don't think the same thing would have happened. And Justine had only lost her Wimbledon chances to a Williams sisters. She hasn't been defeated by anyone other than a sister in the last 3 years she's played Wimbledon. And those were in the years the sisters played their best.

tterb
Jul 31st, 2004, 08:43 PM
Tough question. Both were doing so well before they got injured/ill. I think they both would have at very least made the SF of Roland Garros and Wimbledon... And I think they'd be winning multiple tournaments as well. I still think other players would have stepped up, but there probably would have been less opportunities to do so.

Anyway, it's all speculation. Hopefully Kim and Justine can recover ASAP and get back to winning! :D

Calimero377
Jul 31st, 2004, 08:53 PM
You are so biased. What makes you think she wouldn't have won?


Maybe that Henin is a better player?

:lol:

Hant Hant
Jul 31st, 2004, 08:53 PM
I'm not sure if grass is henin's best court. Grass is Sharapova's best though. I mean henin's has had many attempts at wimbledon and hasn't won before, and sharapova is only 17 therefore i think maria has the edge.


it doesn't matter if grass is sharapova's best surface and jhh's best surface is clay. jhh's skills on grass is still enough to beat sharapova (if we were talking about jhh before her injury).

thelittlestelf
Jul 31st, 2004, 08:54 PM
Yes they would, but had the Williams Sisters not gotten injured it would be a different story, eh?

joao
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:40 PM
Yes they would, but had the Williams Sisters not gotten injured it would be a different story, eh?I was about to say the same!

le bon vivant
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:42 PM
Yes they would, but had the Williams Sisters not gotten injured it would be a different story, eh? Why do you assume the thread starter, iloveazza, gives a damn about the Williamses? He is most likely not even a Williams Fan, but once again, we become the scapegoats anyway for all thats bad on WTAworld.http://wtaworld.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

CJK
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:44 PM
I love all these if's and what if's.....:).
If Lindsay wasnt injured, could Serena win 4 slams in a row?
If Steffi wasnt retired, could Venus have won 2 Wimbledon's in a row?
Speculations are fun:D

If Kim is there, i'm sure the draw will be reshuffled, and I think it'll be harder for Maria to get her title. But her match against Lindsay on grass made me a believer, so I say yes, she can even with the Belgians present:).

Ivan C
Jul 31st, 2004, 09:44 PM
it doesn't matter if grass is sharapova's best surface and jhh's best surface is clay. jhh's skills on grass is still enough to beat sharapova (if we were talking about jhh before her injury).

You can't say that, cos henin's ain't won wimbledon yet. henin(b4 injury) had more opportunities that sharapova.

SerenaVenusNo1
Jul 31st, 2004, 10:33 PM
Um, they'd still be #1 and #2, I know that. Perhaps Myskina and Maria would've won the French and Wimbledon respectively anyway, but Kim and Justine wouldn't have slowed to nothing.

bandabou
Jul 31st, 2004, 10:41 PM
Hmmm....I think it is safe to speculate because the domination of the Belgians has been RECENT. Justineīs last tournament before getting ill: IW and look how she TOTALLY DESTROYED that field. I mean CRUSHED. Myskina, Davenport...all got spanked.

Imo a healthy Justine wins both Wimbledon and Roland Garros of this year. End of story. Look what Myskina does with maria...donīt you think a healthy Justine would have done even worse?! But alas....when you ainīt there, you ainīt there.

iloveazza
Jul 31st, 2004, 10:49 PM
I don't think either Myskina or Sharapov would have won their titles respectively. We were missing the wolrd no.1 and no. 2 (although Justin played the French Open, she was no where near her best). The duo were so dominant over the rest (except the Williams sisters but I'm sure they would have won, had they faced each other after the sisters came back). So, I think Myskina's and Sharapov's victories were similar to Henin's U.S. Open victory last year in the sisters' absense.

tennnisfannn
Jul 31st, 2004, 11:26 PM
they would still be dominating the tour just like they had been before the injuries foreced them out?

Of course nobody knows what things would be like. One can only speculate.
I think given they were quite dominant and winning pretty much everything important where there was before injuries hampered their domination. It's a big shame that everyone some new faces emerge, the top players have to get injured and we never see those dominating and those up n coming face off at their best.If the williamses hadn't gotten injured would they have been that dominant in the first place.
Like Agassi puts it to win a slam you not only need to play well but you need luck as well. Injuries generally open up the draw for many players. A player can be playing so well but they do need someone else to take care of their nimesis.
Personally I believe players can only be in the zone for a time, they may peak and drop only to peak again. Watch what is happening to lindsay she has had alot of ups and downs in her career, everyone gets that. The williams are struggling right now but they will be back, the belgians will struggle to begin with but eventually will rise again. Maria is on the rise but that let down after a high will come. Myskina just seems steady as a ship wins the FO only to lose to amy frazier, go figure!
Personally I cannot wait till this sput of illnesses and injuries pass. maybe 2005 will be a better season.

shap_half
Aug 1st, 2004, 12:15 AM
The way Justine was playing leading into the clay season (her struggles in AI were probably due to the viral illness), everyone should have reason to believe that there really wasn't anyone who could stop her from winning high Tier and GS events. She was really dominating the tour upto that point. I mean in her SF and F matches in IW, she only dropped 7 games against 2 Top 5 players (myskina and davenport). And against someone as inexperienced as Maria?

Robbie.
Aug 1st, 2004, 12:43 AM
This thread is so ironic. At the start of the year everyone was saying that Justine was the one who had gotten lucky with the injuries of Serena and Venus. And let's face it if they weren't injured would you have expected Henin to win the US Open and Aus Open? As someone has said above if not for the Williams injuries at Wimbledon 03 its unlikely that there have been any Belgian dominance in the first place.

The hypotheticals are endless.
When are people just going to ACCEPT the way it is. Players get injured and other players take advantage.

After Monica was stabbed (I know its a bit different) it was "IF Monica hadn't been stabbed Steffi wouldn't have won all those slams"
When Steffi became injured in 1997 it was "IF Steffi wasn't injured Hingis wouldn't have been dominant"
When the Williams dominated in 2002, it was "IF Davenport and Hingis weren't injured they wouldn't be dominant"
When the Belgians dominated in 2003/4 it was "IF the Williamses were there the belgians wouldn't be dominating"
Now when the Belgians are injured, it's "If the belgians were there Myskina and Sharapova and Davenport wouldn't be dominant".

Can't you people see the pattern here?

ALL players get injured at one point or another. Except for the Seles tragedy, it all evens itself out IMO.
Why the need to constantly downgrade the best players at any point in time?

CJK
Aug 1st, 2004, 01:40 AM
Why the need to constantly downgrade the best players at any point in time?
I think some people are just angry that the Lindsay and the Russians are taking all the spotlights off their favourites. I, on the other hand, am a tennis fan. I appreciate what every player has done despite the circumstances. I mean c'mon, Maria Sharapova = Sarah Hughs on WTA, as if she is never going to achieve anything else :rolleyes:. Hopefully there can be more positive fans like us to cheer players on despite all the negative comments.

Smackie
Aug 1st, 2004, 03:55 AM
If both Kim and Justine were around and healthy, I think Maria would still have a chance in Wimbledon but it would slim dramatically. As pretty and talented as Maria is, the Belgians were, before the injury and illness, by far more all-round and higher skilled players in every department.

Again, had they been around and healthy, I wouldn't think Myskina could win RG and in Wimbledon, the Williams Sisters would probably less subdue and might play better, and Maria's route would probably tougher than it was.

But that's all hypothetical anyway. If all four were fit and at in their very best form, Maria wouldn't get an invitation in the semis - nevermind winning. I would guess the final would be either Serena/Justine with Serena winning or Serena/Venus with Serena winning.

Andy.
Aug 1st, 2004, 05:07 AM
the same things have been said about the williams sisters but its sad that we must have these types of threads because of all the injuries