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CoryAnnAvants#1
Jul 27th, 2004, 04:22 PM
I can't help but notice this...Venus always use to be one of the best, if not the best, at closing out sets and matches. But this year, in almost all of her losses, Venus has choked in one way or another. Could it be that Venus is far more mentally fragile now than she's letting on? Take a look at this...

V's losses

Aussie Open-lost to Lisa Raymond 6-4 7-6, had a set point in the second set.
Dubai-l. to Svetlana Kuznetsova 6-2 6-3-outclassed, no choke there
Miami-l. Elena Dementieva 6-3 5-7 7-6, match point in the third set.
RG-l. to Anastasia Myskina 6-3 6-4-once she became the favorite, fell apart with 45+ errors in two sets
Wimby-l. to Karolina Sprem 7-6 7-6-two set points in the first set lost and three in the second set lost
Stanford-l. to Lindsay Davenport 7-6 5-7 7-6-came within 2 points of winning.
LA-l. to Lindsay Davenport 7-5 2-0-yes she was injured, but she also blew a 5-0 lead.

Venus used to be so good at winning these close matches, but hasn't done too well with it this year. Even last week, despite the injury, she would NEVER blow a 5-0 lead.

mboyle
Jul 27th, 2004, 04:25 PM
It isn't like she blew a 6-4; 4-0 lead or anything:o :tape: HINGIS :tape: . Having a matchpoint in a tiebreak is very different than having a matchpoint with a big lead behind it.

*hingis_forever*
Jul 27th, 2004, 04:38 PM
It isn't like she blew a 6-4; 4-0 lead or anything:o :tape: HINGIS :tape: . Having a matchpoint in a tiebreak is very different than having a matchpoint with a big lead behind it.
You had to find a way to diss Hingis didn't you even though it had nothing to do with Venus choking!

ZX10R
Jul 27th, 2004, 04:38 PM
do yall think she will win today against Gisela Dulko, or do you think she may retire with that injury? or that injury will keep her from winning?

nate_my_love
Jul 27th, 2004, 04:40 PM
I just feel that she's a little rusty ...that's all...

Abdoul
Jul 27th, 2004, 04:44 PM
yeah, i realised that as well , but the problem with wenus villiams
is that she lost confidence and need a lot, a lot of practice. trust me .
and...
inch Allah ... it's only a matter of time.

boggs570
Jul 27th, 2004, 04:57 PM
I can't help but notice this...Venus always use to be one of the best, if not the best, at closing out sets and matches. But this year, in almost all of her losses, Venus has choked in one way or another. Could it be that Venus is far more mentally fragile now than she's letting on? Take a look at this...

V's losses

Aussie Open-lost to Lisa Raymond 6-4 7-6, had a set point in the second set.
Dubai-l. to Svetlana Kuznetsova 6-2 6-3-outclassed, no choke there
Miami-l. Elena Dementieva 6-3 5-7 7-6, match point in the third set.
RG-l. to Anastasia Myskina 6-3 6-4-once she became the favorite, fell apart with 45+ errors in two sets
Wimby-l. to Karolina Sprem 7-6 7-6-two set points in the first set lost and three in the second set lost
Stanford-l. to Lindsay Davenport 7-6 5-7 7-6-came within 2 points of winning.
LA-l. to Lindsay Davenport 7-5 2-0-yes she was injured, but she also blew a 5-0 lead.

Venus used to be so good at winning these close matches, but hasn't done too well with it this year. Even last week, despite the injury, she would NEVER blow a 5-0 lead.


Was she suppose to continue and make the injury worse. Stop being unrealistic.

boggs570
Jul 27th, 2004, 04:59 PM
I can't help but notice this...Venus always use to be one of the best, if not the best, at closing out sets and matches. But this year, in almost all of her losses, Venus has choked in one way or another. Could it be that Venus is far more mentally fragile now than she's letting on? Take a look at this...

V's losses

Aussie Open-lost to Lisa Raymond 6-4 7-6, had a set point in the second set.
Dubai-l. to Svetlana Kuznetsova 6-2 6-3-outclassed, no choke there
Miami-l. Elena Dementieva 6-3 5-7 7-6, match point in the third set.
RG-l. to Anastasia Myskina 6-3 6-4-once she became the favorite, fell apart with 45+ errors in two sets
Wimby-l. to Karolina Sprem 7-6 7-6-two set points in the first set lost and three in the second set lost
Stanford-l. to Lindsay Davenport 7-6 5-7 7-6-came within 2 points of winning.
LA-l. to Lindsay Davenport 7-5 2-0-yes she was injured, but she also blew a 5-0 lead.

Venus used to be so good at winning these close matches, but hasn't done too well with it this year. Even last week, despite the injury, she would NEVER blow a 5-0 lead.

The last time she continue playing and making the injury worse and look what happened to her she was almost out for a 1yr and now she is struggling to get back on track...which I think she is doing just great. A couple of more tournaments and she will be back where she was.

DA FOREHAND
Jul 27th, 2004, 05:00 PM
I can't help but notice this...Venus always use to be one of the best, if not the best, at closing out sets and matches. But this year, in almost all of her losses, Venus has choked in one way or another. Could it be that Venus is far more mentally fragile now than she's letting on? Take a look at this...

V's losses

Aussie Open-lost to Lisa Raymond 6-4 7-6, had a set point in the second set.
Dubai-l. to Svetlana Kuznetsova 6-2 6-3-outclassed, no choke there
Miami-l. Elena Dementieva 6-3 5-7 7-6, match point in the third set.
RG-l. to Anastasia Myskina 6-3 6-4-once she became the favorite, fell apart with 45+ errors in two sets
Wimby-l. to Karolina Sprem 7-6 7-6-two set points in the first set lost and three in the second set lost
Stanford-l. to Lindsay Davenport 7-6 5-7 7-6-came within 2 points of winning.
LA-l. to Lindsay Davenport 7-5 2-0-yes she was injured, but she also blew a 5-0 lead.

Venus used to be so good at winning these close matches, but hasn't done too well with it this year. Even last week, despite the injury, she would NEVER blow a 5-0 lead.


LOL pretty imaginative

It's not like she was up 6-2 4-0 or sqaundered eight matchpoints.

Paneru
Jul 27th, 2004, 05:04 PM
Grasping for straws,
what else is new. :lol:

pigam
Jul 27th, 2004, 05:06 PM
none of those matches Venus choked,
so my answer would be: no she is not a choker
she isn't known to choke
she hasn't choked and she isn't choking
she will not choke and shall not choke :wavey:

Paneru
Jul 27th, 2004, 05:07 PM
yeah, i realised that as well , but the problem with wenus villiams
is that she lost confidence and need a lot, a lot of practice. trust me .
and...
inch Allah ... it's only a matter of time.

That's why these injuries are so frustrating!

Everytime she seems to begin to get confidence
and is playing well some injury always seems to pop
up on her. I think that's why she wants to play San Diego.

She wants to keep that momentum of
good play and confidence going.

Helen Lawson
Jul 27th, 2004, 05:21 PM
I don't think the broad has traveled into choke-land, but, this sounds cliched and like a commentator, she plays important points too defensively and doesn't win them. She had loads of chances against Lin-See last week in Stanford, and fell short on most of them.

It's like being the front-runner in an Oscar race and running off to Europe. You stay in Hollywood and campaign your ass off until the ballots are in.

CoryAnnAvants#1
Jul 27th, 2004, 05:39 PM
Was she suppose to continue and make the injury worse. Stop being unrealistic.
I'm not saying she was supposed to continue. There's no way she would've won the match given her injury. HOWEVER, if this were 2000 or 2001 and she had the same problem, she would've at least found a way to win the first set having to quit in the second.

And being a choker doesn't mean you have to blow tons of matchpoints or a huge lead. If there's a consistent pattern of losing tight matches or blowing set points/match points, then yes, she is choking at the moment.

UDiTY
Jul 27th, 2004, 06:45 PM
The only time I think she choked was when she had 3 set-points against K-Lina at Wimby(shoulda been 4.) When she missed the crosscourt forehand on her final set-point she knew she blew it.

:eek: And I never knew she was up 5-0 against Davey last week.

You could also look at these matches in a very positive light. Of all the matches she has lost this year only two(Kuzey and Myskina) she didn't fight hard for one set or another. She had chances to win.:p

azza
Jul 27th, 2004, 06:50 PM
LA-l. to Lindsay Davenport 7-5 2-0-yes she was injured, but she also blew a 5-0 lead.
she also had a set point at 40-30 on her serve :wavey:

boggs570
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:05 PM
I don't think the broad has traveled into choke-land, but, this sounds cliched and like a commentator, she plays important points too defensively and doesn't win them. She had loads of chances against Lin-See last week in Stanford, and fell short on most of them.

It's like being the front-runner in an Oscar race and running off to Europe. You stay in Hollywood and campaign your ass off until the ballots are in.

Wasn't kicking Lindsay's butt before she got injured. She got injured at 3-0 and still went on to win 2 more games before the wrist got worse. What were you guys watching? You are talking like she lost a 5-0 lead for no apparent reason. She retired from the match hurt.

boggs570
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:08 PM
I'm not saying she was supposed to continue. There's no way she would've won the match given her injury. HOWEVER, if this were 2000 or 2001 and she had the same problem, she would've at least found a way to win the first set having to quit in the second.

And being a choker doesn't mean you have to blow tons of matchpoints or a huge lead. If there's a consistent pattern of losing tight matches or blowing set points/match points, then yes, she is choking at the moment.

What you are saying is not making any sence at all. As I said before she continued last year at Wimbledon and look what happened why should she repeat the same thing and let happen again. YOu don't seem to understand what I am saying. Venus has learned from her lesson if she's hurt she will stop playing.

villa
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:09 PM
I don't think she's a choker but i agree to an extent that she's not mentally as tough as she used to. I can't really remember anytime between 2000-2003 when venus had set points/match points and lost! Its rare for her not to take advantage of her oppurtunities.

boggs570
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:09 PM
she also had a set point at 40-30 on her serve :wavey:

Bradshaw she blew the lead because she was injured and it got worse. Are you that daff that you cannot understand that simple fact.

roarke
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:16 PM
Every since Venus and Serene came on the tennis scene, people have been taking pot shots at them. If it is not at their demeanor on and of court, it is their family, their dress, every word they say, what they do off court in their own free time or who they are dating. Jeez! Leave the women alone! Get a life of your wn. Enjoy the tennis tennis! If they are not playing well so what, it they are so what? The amount of venom disguised in these kinds of satirical threads is enough to sink the Titanic if it wasn't already sunk.

Paneru
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:29 PM
I don't think she's a choker but i agree to an extent that she's not mentally as tough as she used to. I can't really remember anytime between 2000-2003 when venus had set points/match points and lost! Its rare for her not to take advantage of her oppurtunities.

If you had to constantly worry about some part
of your body breaking down and not being able to practice
the way you wanted to, you'd lose confidence as well.

If Venus can stay healthy for any period of time she'll
be winning these points. Also, in the match against Lindsay
in LA before the wrist became an issue she did well when she
was down break points.

If she can ever find a way to stay healthy for
any length of time she'll be golden.

She's already showed those who said she'd never win
a tournament this year or ever again what she can do
and is capable of.

Paneru
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:30 PM
Every since Venus and Serene came on the tennis scene, people have been taking pot shots at them. If it is not at their demeanor on and of court, it is their family, their dress, every word they say, what they do off court in their own free time or who they are dating. Jeez! Leave the women alone! Get a life of your wn. Enjoy the tennis tennis! If they are not playing well so what, it they are so what? The amount of venom disguised in these kinds of satirical threads is enough to sink the Titanic if it wasn't already sunk.

:worship:

volta
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:46 PM
I just feel that she's a little rusty ...that's all...
me 2. and with no luck :sad: .last week against Lindsay she was going to win the set then BAM wrist injury :sad: MG some1 is making voodoo to my girl it has 2 be.
she´s gaining her confidence back a few more tournaments and Vee will have her crown back.

villa
Jul 27th, 2004, 08:06 PM
If you had to constantly worry about some part
of your body breaking down and not being able to practice
the way you wanted to, you'd lose confidence as well.

If Venus can stay healthy for any period of time she'll
be winning these points. Also, in the match against Lindsay
in LA before the wrist became an issue she did well when she
was down break points.

If she can ever find a way to stay healthy for
any length of time she'll be golden.

She's already showed those who said she'd never win
a tournament this year or ever again what she can do
and is capable of.
Iam not saying that the injuries aren't the main reason for this inability to take her chances but this is Venus Williams- she's always suffered from injureis..ive seen her win matches with the use of only one leg:eek: ;) . She would come back from a long lay off and win easy becuase when she had a chance that massive first serve would come into play and give her a free point- now its more likely to be DF.

Venus isn't the same player mentally with or without the injuries but having said that it still wouldn't surprise me if she killed dulko,pierce,sharapova,myskina,serena and lindsay to win this week and took the acura- her problems don't look like their hard to overcome.