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tennisIlove09
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:14 PM
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Davenport's playing amazing tennis right now...it's not THAT big of a surprise that she won...but it is a surprise at how easy it was

Havok
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:16 PM
:smoke: Now she better show up at the USO and do something and not let leads slip away like she did in the Australian Open and at Wimbledon. Nice job Lindsay :yeah:

VeNuS#1LoVa
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:18 PM
I've always been a Lindsay fan, and I never thought she would do what she's doing now. I'm so proud of her, but yet, I'm still disappointed with the Williams Sisters, especially Venus...

Congrats Lindsay! :banana:

Serena :help:
VENUS :help: :help: :help:

bandabou
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:19 PM
What can be said....my girl is over. I mean you can lose....buy lose like this?! No game-plan, no nada...it is over. Famous?! What famous.

men in black
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:19 PM
One of the few that has beated the Williams sisters back to back.
http://www.gotennis.com/Photos/2004-07-24T052352Z_01_LAC15D_RTRIDSP_2_SPORT-TENNIS.jpg
:bounce:

Roxers
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:20 PM
Congrats Linds!!! well played :yeah: :bounce:

tennisIlove09
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:20 PM
What can be said....my girl is over. I mean you can lose....buy lose like this?! No game-plan, no nada...it is over. Famous?! What famous.
you give up on your favorite too easily

harloo
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:21 PM
She basically outplayed the Princess from the outset. Serena could not get anything in and if she wants to start winning these finals again she will have to cut back on some of the other activities and win.

I like Lindsay, so good for her. If it's anyone I don't mind the sisters losing to it's Lindsay

wongqks
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:21 PM
A huge reality check for Serena, she will be back, but she better be dedicated to her tennis coz all the other girls are. Just focus and get ready for the US Open and Olympics!. Wow this may turn out to be one of the more exciting American hardcourt series

foreva lindsay
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:21 PM
Lindsay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Foot_Fault
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:22 PM
I've always been a Lindsay fan, and I never thought she would do what she's doing now. I'm so proud of her, but yet, I'm still disappointed with the Williams Sisters, especially Venus...

Congrats Lindsay! :banana:

Serena :help:
VENUS :help: :help: :help:
VENUS? WHY? Last week match was the best Women's match in 4 or 5 years. Although Venus was about 75-80% it was still GOOOD

I knew Serena was going to lose based off her performance all week, it was so so so so shaky.

I am not disappointed, I am just so happy for Lindsay, she's been through so much...just want her to show up at the open.

faste5683
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:22 PM
What can be said....my girl is over. I mean you can lose....buy lose like this?! No game-plan, no nada...it is over. Famous?! What famous.

You mean "overly famous"? Serena came out looking tight and anxious - and the way Lindsay's been hitting the ball the past two weeks didn't help...

:wavey:

-Em-
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:23 PM
:yeah: Yay Lindsay!!! Well played girl. You gave Serena like NO chances at all. You've really deserved that :bounce:

Kabezya
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:23 PM
What can be said....my girl is over. I mean you can lose....buy lose like this?! No game-plan, no nada...it is over. Famous?! What famous.

In BallsBuster's thread last night about why fans desert their favorites when they lose, this is a prime example of why in particular as a Williams fan I don't care to come to this board especially when Serena or Venus loses.

Serena has had a wonderful week of tennis where she's produced some great matches, in particular against Vera. She loses a final to Lindsay. It was not pretty of course, that cannot be denied. But lamenting that now this is the definitive end for Serena of all players... she may not have had her serve, she may have had too many unforced errors that clearly affected her game, but she fought til the end.

Should we start a petition for Serena to simply retire now since losing to Lindsay seems to be a sin? The girl can still play - that goes for both Lindsay and Serena. Things are not over, it wasn't the result but my goodness... I guess I just hate reactions like this. I can't even fault you for it, but dang.

SelesFan70
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:24 PM
Lindsay... :worship:

Serena...where's the strategy? :shrug:

WorldWar24
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:26 PM
Should we start a petition for Serena to simply retire now since losing to Lindsay seems to be a sin? The girl can still play - that goes for both Lindsay and Serena. Things are not over, it wasn't the result but my goodness... I guess I just hate reactions like this. I can't even fault you for it, but dang.

:bowdown:

Fans are fickle

Joana
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:27 PM
:woohoo:
How could I have ever doubted in you, Linds? :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

tterb
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:27 PM
Lindsay!! :eek: :D

Wow. I was worried in the second set because Serena started fighting better, and Lindsay seemed to lose a bit of concentration and make a few more unforced errors... but any doubts about Lindsay not running for balls or fighting had to be dispelled by that break point on deuce that Lindsay saved in the last game of the match. Amazing rally... Simply unbelievable.

After this week's matches against Vera, Elena, and Lindsay, I have to say I think that the main difference between Serena of 2002 and 2004 (besides the obvious one, confidence) is footwork. In her QF, SF, and F matches, Serena just wasn't getting her feet set to hit good shots... she almost ran into herself on one shot today! I think when everyone talks about Serena's groundstrokes being off, it's more her footwork that is causing the errors. There's also the fact that other players are really stepping it up, but as far as Serena's game goes, I think the big thing to improve is her footwork.

Rocketta
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:28 PM
What can be said....my girl is over. I mean you can lose....buy lose like this?! No game-plan, no nada...it is over. Famous?! What famous.First Congratulations Lindsey on a very well played match!

Now bandabou that post was ten times more pathetic than Serena's play...:rolleyes:

4 words for Serena


YOU played like SH*T! :wavey:

bandabou
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:28 PM
In BallsBuster's thread last night about why fans desert their favorites when they lose, this is a prime example of why in particular as a Williams fan I don't care to come to this board especially when Serena or Venus loses.

Serena has had a wonderful week of tennis where she's produced some great matches, in particular against Vera. She loses a final to Lindsay. It was not pretty of course, that cannot be denied. But lamenting that now this is the definitive end for Serena of all players... she may not have had her serve, she may have had too many unforced errors that clearly affected her game, but she fought til the end.

Should we start a petition for Serena to simply retire now since losing to Lindsay seems to be a sin? The girl can still play - that goes for both Lindsay and Serena. Things are not over, it wasn't the result but my goodness... I guess I just hate reactions like this. I can't even fault you for it, but dang.


This is TWICE in a row already that she plays crap like this in a final. I mean, come on....6-1 6-4 at Wimbledon and now this?! Wake up, wake up Serena!!1

Stamp Paid
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:29 PM
Serena!!!!!!!!!! Get it together sweetheart! You are developing a complex in finals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not gonna get to #1 this way! http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/laugh.gifhttp://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

STill, you made it this far, and that speaks volumes.

(Boy am I glad that Kim & Justine are out tho. They would slaughter this Serena! http://wtaworld.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif)

bis2806
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:30 PM
Oh my godddd Lindsay played so amazingly well!!!! like she didn't give up even when she was down!!! i love you girl :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

deckham
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:30 PM
A huge reality check for Serena, she will be back, but she better be dedicated to her tennis coz all the other girls are. Just focus and get ready for the US Open and Olympics!. Wow this may turn out to be one of the more exciting American hardcourt series
you would have thought getting spanked in the wimbledon final was enough of a reality check.....

pigam
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:31 PM
Lindsay!! :eek: :D

Wow. I was worried in the second set because Serena started fighting better, and Lindsay seemed to lose a bit of concentration and make a few more unforced errors... but any doubts about Lindsay not running for balls or fighting had to be dispelled by that break point on deuce that Lindsay saved in the last game of the match. Amazing rally... Simply unbelievable.

After this week's matches against Vera, Elena, and Lindsay, I have to say I think that the main difference between Serena of 2002 and 2004 (besides the obvious one, confidence) is footwork. In her QF, SF, and F matches, Serena just wasn't getting her feet set to hit good shots... she almost ran into herself on one shot today! I think when everyone talks about Serena's groundstrokes being off, it's more her footwork that is causing the errors. There's also the fact that other players are really stepping it up, but as far as Serena's game goes, I think the big thing to improve is her footwork.

I didn't see this match, but I noticed that too during the Wimbledon final, e.g.
She needs specific training for that, that's for sure, because it has been troubling her a few weeks already, even her early matches in Wimby (she won them easily, by the way) her footwork wasn't what it used to be.
Still, so amazing Linzi believed in herself, something she didn't seem to do in 2002 :shrug:

hotandspicey
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:31 PM
Serena just got a reality check from Lindsay!!! Put your all in the game, and stay focused, or you're going down like the titanic. Horrible display!!! She better come correct for USopen, or chances are she's out by the 3rd round, and I'll spend two weeks moping around!!!

bandabou
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:33 PM
The once queen of finals suddenly loses two in a row and not even with a chance.

Jakub
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:33 PM
Lindsay :bounce: :woohoo:
congrats !!

Sash1
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:34 PM
Come on guys Serena will be back, don't write her off just yet! In a way she has achieved so much in her carrer so far, and she is probably finding it hard to motivate herself at the moment. Once she realises how much it hutrs to loose she'll be back!!!
I only wish I could say the same about Venus... (but i certalnly hope so!)

Anyways well done to Davenport, she's surprised me how well she was playing last two weeks! Maybe all this talk about retireing helped her not to feel pressure anymore... whatever it is - it's working!

LeonHart
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:34 PM
Lindsay becomes one of the few people that beat Williams BACK to BACK!!! Of course my great goddess Hingis was one of them! :bounce:

tterb
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:35 PM
Bandabou, I'm not even a fan of Serena but I feel like I have more faith in her than you right now :confused:

You do realize she's only played seven tournaments, yet is still sixth in points earned this year? And that's with missing the first grand slam of the year! She hasn't lost before the QFs in any tournament she's played (excluding one walkover). She lost to Nadia, Jennifer twice, Maria, and Lindsay. I see no shame in those losses, which are all to very quality players, after coming back from an 8-month layoff.

By the way, congrats to both ladies on a good week... What I take away from this is that Lindsay MOST DEFINITELY still has it :worship: and that Serena, despite needing some obvious improvements, is still competing very well (she had chances in that second set with Davenport, and she just toughed it out in the Zvonareva match).

LeonHart
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:35 PM
One of the few that has beated the Williams sisters back to back.
http://www.gotennis.com/Photos/2004-07-24T052352Z_01_LAC15D_RTRIDSP_2_SPORT-TENNIS.jpg
:bounce:
Sorry...but this picture of Serena is hideous :eek::scared::bolt:

*JR*
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:35 PM
All complaints about (probably TPlayer) repeatedly posting that pic, or just being a Kloset Klansman who calls Jen, Linzi, etc. THE American (as deleted just B4) when playing either W/S should be addressed To The one who's the lead Dog (Danny). mulder_xf@webtv.net. (Tell The Twerp JR said hello). ;)

Kabezya
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:35 PM
This is TWICE in a row already that she plays crap like this in a final. I mean, come on....6-1 6-4 at Wimbledon and now this?! Wake up, wake up Serena!!1

I don't want Serena to losing to a player who was contemplating retiring just a minute ago either, but Serena is in no way shape or form over. I don't know what people expected of her when she came back, but her season is far from even being a disaster. This wake up crap is sickening because do you doubt Serena doesn't realize her game, her footwork, her body language, her confidence still need work? She does not enjoy losing - it's not something she's used to, but she's working at it, it's only natural that some pitfalls are going to be in her way but she'll get to that point where she's back to winning these championships.

men in black
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:35 PM
First Congratulations Lindsey on a very well played match!

Now bandabou that post was ten times more pathetic than Serena's play...:rolleyes:

4 words for Serena


YOU played like SH*T! :wavey:

LOL Good one Rocketta

mboyle
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:36 PM
played like SH*T! :wavey:
No, Lindsay played well. Serena had over 70% first serves in, and only 10 more UFEs to winners. Sure that isn't great, but Serena has won bucket loads of matches with far worse numbers. Lindsay beat Venus last week, and this week she beat Serena. Neither sister really lost the match. As Mary Joe said, "It may appear that Serena isn't playing her best, but alot of that has to do w/ Lindsay's play."

Bandabou, don't fret, Serena will be back fully. Give it til the end of the year. However, she has alot of work to do, and she probably won't dominate like she did in 02.

Tennisfan-Mtl
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:37 PM
Lindsay :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

wongqks
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:37 PM
you would have thought getting spanked in the wimbledon final was enough of a reality check.....

Well i don't think the Wimbledon final was a bigger reality check than this one IMO. I mean just one straight loss can be counted for just having an off day, but two of them will make she realise how tough the tour has become

bw2082
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:37 PM
:worship: Lindsay :worship:

mboyle
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:38 PM
She lost to Nadia, Jennifer twice, Maria, and Lindsay. I see no shame in those losses, which are all to very quality players, after coming back from an 8-month layoff.
the Nadia match was:scared: , but otherwise, the loses aren't so bad.

Stamp Paid
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:39 PM
No, Lindsay played well. Serena had over 70% first serves in, and only 10 more UFEs to winners.
I thought Serena made 9 winners, 29 errors? Thats 20 more.

thelittlestelf
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:39 PM
Lindsay is so awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!! She had 1 UNFORCED ERROR in the first set! 1!!!!!!

CRAZY!

I like Serena and all, but wow, Lindsay's confidence is SO high! She played amazing, and tracked down balls that I never thought she could!!!

lizchris
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:40 PM
The sad part is that Venus was injured and took more games off of Lindsay than Serena did and she is healthy.:eek:

I always said that Venus was a better summer hardcourt player than Serena and today's fianl proved my point. I still think that both sisters should be considered favorites to win the USO and at the Olympics.

bandabou
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:40 PM
Bandabou, I'm not even a fan of Serena but I feel like I have more faith in her than you right now :confused:

You do realize she's only played seven tournaments, yet is still sixth in points earned this year? And that's with missing the first grand slam of the year! She hasn't lost before the QFs in any tournament she's played (excluding one walkover). She lost to Nadia, Jennifer twice, Maria, and Lindsay. I see no shame in those losses, which are all to very quality players, after coming back from an 8-month layoff.

By the way, congrats to both ladies on a good week... What I take away from this is that Lindsay MOST DEFINITELY still has it :worship: and that Serena, despite needing some obvious improvements, is still competing very well (she had chances in that second set with Davenport, and she just toughed it out in the Zvonareva match).


Sorry man....sometimes I just get tooooo dissapointed when she loses. I see your point, but it seems that since I started taping her matches all she does is lose. :sad:

Kabezya
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:43 PM
The sad part is that Venus was injured and took more games off of Lindsay than Serena did and she is healthy.:eek:

I always said that Venus was a better summer hardcourt player than Serena and today's fianl proved my point. I still think that both sisters should be considered favorites to win the USO and at the Olympics.

Why is this even becoming a comparison of Venus -vs- Serena?

tterb
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:43 PM
the Nadia match was , but otherwise, the loses aren't so bad.

Didn't see that one, actually... I don't usually watch Serena's matches unless it's the latter stages of a big tournament or she's playing a fave of mine (of course, this means I see her play tons :lol: ). But wasn't that her first tournament of the year on clay, her weakest surface?

davenport_1
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:44 PM
Lindsay :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

Stay this way forever!

mboyle
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:45 PM
Lindsay becomes one of the few people that beat Williams BACK to BACK!!! Of course my great goddess Hingis was one of them! :bounce:
I don't think one should count the tmies when a player retires in a match. I mean, do you consider Clijsters to have done it by leading 5-0 in one set? I sure don't. Another thing: ASV is the ONLY player to beat both sisters legitimately AND win the title (sydney '98.) Graf beat both legitimately Sydney 99, but lost in the semis/final to Davenport. Hingis is really the only one to do it while both sisters were playing well, IMHO.

faste5683
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:47 PM
Bandabou, don't fret, Serena will be back fully. Give it til the end of the year. However, she has alot of work to do, and she probably won't dominate like she did in 02.

I agree with this. From what I saw (or *felt*) from Serena was anxiousness; starting from the first serve of the match to the final point. I know that when I'm in a big match and feeling nervous, the coordination (timing) is the first thing to go. For some reason or another, Serena is putting some heavy, self-inflicted pressure on herself. Lindsay, who played a competent, professional match, basically did her thing and watched Serena self-destruct.

Serena AND Venus will be "back", heck, they already are. But things do change - and the new kids on the block never stop coming...or improving.

:wavey:

bandabou
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:48 PM
I don't want Serena to losing to a player who was contemplating retiring just a minute ago either, but Serena is in no way shape or form over. I don't know what people expected of her when she came back, but her season is far from even being a disaster. This wake up crap is sickening because do you doubt Serena doesn't realize her game, her footwork, her body language, her confidence still need work? She does not enjoy losing - it's not something she's used to, but she's working at it, it's only natural that some pitfalls are going to be in her way but she'll get to that point where she's back to winning these championships.


See my earlier post...I see your point.

JennyS
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:57 PM
This is going to give Linsday a lot of confidence going into the US Open. The two week break she will have after San Diego will really help before she plays New Haven and the Open.

CJ07
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:00 PM
Serena :rolleyes:
But you all have to give Lindsay credit. Saying Serena is over because of one loss is rediculous. She hasn't gotten back to form yet. She'll be fine.

Heck she made the the finals playing below average tennis (relative to her 2002 form), just think how she'll do when she gets everything clicking? And yes her footwork was the biggest problem. She was tripping all over herself.

As for Venus, if she can get healthy she'll be fine. She's started to prodouce consistent tennis, she just hasn't been able to do it against the big players. That was changing yesterday with her going up 5-0, but again an injury.

Personally I think Venus is fine, but Serena definately has some work to do.

CJ07
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:03 PM
Why is this even becoming a comparison of Venus -vs- Serena?
EVERYTHING becomes a Venus vs. Serena topic :lol:

BTW, Mary Pierce won her first match today, so has Venus w/d yet?

bandabou
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:06 PM
Serena has to work on that footwork....and controlling her emotions in big matches. Come on come on!!

lizchris
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:08 PM
EVERYTHING becomes a Venus vs. Serena topic :lol:

BTW, Mary Pierce won her first match today, so has Venus w/d yet?
No.

Venus will not make any decision untl she is examined in LA tomorrow morning.

Unless it is more serious than we are aware of, I think the chances of her playing are good mainly because she wants to play. I have said from the beginning that she withdrew as a precaution knowing she has to play this week.

Stefwhit
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:09 PM
Bandabou and Machu Picchu (my absolute two favorite posters,) I gave it my all cheering for her to get it going but sadly, it wasn't meant to be. As usual, Machu Picchu you put things into perspective rather nicely (so did tturb)- Serena has had a high quality year with quality results to boot. Of course we'd like to see Serena win everything but seeing her struggle only makes us appreciate the victories that much more...and you better believe a lot more victories are in store for us Serena fans.

After the seventh game in the second set I got up from seat and me and my "friend" watched the last couple of games from uptop- the way the stadium is built you can actually go walking around and look down into the stadium. If you think it's disappointing to watch her lose on tv try sitting in the stands. Serena looked to be in great spirits after the match, which put me in good spirits. If Serena has to lose to a HOTTT Lindz, better for her to lose to her here than at the US Open.

Kabezya
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:10 PM
BTW, Mary Pierce won her first match today, so has Venus w/d yet?

I haven't heard of her withdrawing but there clearly is concern that maybe she should and just enter into the Canadian to really evaluate her wrist injury.

lizchris
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:12 PM
Bandabou and Machu Picchu (my absolute two favorite posters,) I gave it my all cheering for her to get it going but sadly, it wasn't meant to be. As usual, Machu Picchu you put things into perspective rather nicely (so did tturb)- Serena has had a high quality year with quality results to boot. Of course we'd like to see Serena win everything but seeing her struggle only makes us appreciate the victories that much more...and you better believe a lot more victories are in store for us Serena fans.

After the seventh game in the second set I got up from seat and me and my "friend" watched the last couple of games from uptop- the way the stadium is built you can actually go walking around and look down into the stadium. If you think it's disappointing to watch her lose on tv try sitting in the stands. Serena looked to be in great spirits after the match, which put me in good spirits. If Serena has to lose to a HOTTT Lindz, better for her to lose to her here than at the US Open.
My sentiments exactly.

Though I am dissapoited that the sisters didn't win in Stanford and LA, I'd rather they lose there than at the US Open, where I think they have a great chance of going deep in the tournament.

bandabou
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:15 PM
Bandabou and Machu Picchu (my absolute two favorite posters,) I gave it my all cheering for her to get it going but sadly, it wasn't meant to be. As usual, Machu Picchu you put things into perspective rather nicely (so did tturb)- Serena has had a high quality year with quality results to boot. Of course we'd like to see Serena win everything but seeing her struggle only makes us appreciate the victories that much more...and you better believe a lot more victories are in store for us Serena fans.

After the seventh game in the second set I got up from seat and me and my "friend" watched the last couple of games from uptop- the way the stadium is built you can actually go walking around and look down into the stadium. If you think it's disappointing to watch her lose on tv try sitting in the stands. Serena looked to be in great spirits after the match, which put me in good spirits. If Serena has to lose to a HOTTT Lindz, better for her to lose to her here than at the US Open.


Uhum, uhum....thing is I have taped her like 5 times and she lost three times and twice pretty lopsided...I guess Iīm just too hard on her. Hopefully sheīll bounce back in time.

Kabezya
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:17 PM
Of course we'd like to see Serena win everything but seeing her struggle only makes us appreciate the victories that much more...and you better believe a lot more victories are in store for us Serena fans.

You are ever so sweet :) I pretty much think this has been my mindset this whole year since Serena has come back. I really do believe there are many more victories and championship victories for Serena - the struggle is there and emotions that much more of a fevered pitch because Serena is right there ready to snatch the ultimate victory.

If you think it's disappointing to watch her lose on tv try sitting in the stands. Serena looked to be in great spirits after the match, which put me in good spirits. If Serena has to lose to a HOTTT Lindz, better for her to lose to her here than at the US Open.

I don't envy your status today, well in a way I do, I would have loved to see Serena play in person, but I know the emotions would have been much higher than just watching on TV. Serena believes and therefore I do too.

How's the dress in person?

CJ07
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:17 PM
It is better for Serena to have her off day now you're right. However I really wonder about her mentality. I was almost sure that Serena would come out firing because she wanted to make up for Venus's loss, but she played sooo passively, its crazy.

As for Venus and not winning Stanford, well I think that was just a mental thing. It wasn't like Davenport was doing anything special. Lindsay played better today than she did last week I think.

As for the Olympics and Us Open, Venus will do better than Serena will I think, at least if Serena doesn't start picking it up.

flyingmachine
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:22 PM
:eek: :)

lizchris
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:24 PM
It is better for Serena to have her off day now you're right. However I really wonder about her mentality. I was almost sure that Serena would come out firing because she wanted to make up for Venus's loss, but she played sooo passively, its crazy.

As for Venus and not winning Stanford, well I think that was just a mental thing. It wasn't like Davenport was doing anything special. Lindsay played better today than she did last week I think.

As for the Olympics and Us Open, Venus will do better than Serena will I think, at least if Serena doesn't start picking it up.
Venus would have won Stanford had she not made so many unforced errors. And people soon forget that she was up 5-0 yesterday against Lindsay before her injury flared up. If not for that injury, Venus would be holding the trophy today and deep inside Lindsay knows that.

bandabou
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:25 PM
I am so not suprised- Serena is not playing like Serena of old- she is playing way too defensive and tentative tennis right now(like Kim C. does against the top players)- I didnt' see this match but for the entire tourny (well against Demented & Vera) she was playing just like she played against Maria at Wimby- I hope she gets her old form back soon.

Congrats to an on fire Lindsay:)


Yep....Serena wasnīt hitting deep at all...that was shocking to see.

Crazy_Fool
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:27 PM
Venus would have won Stanford had she not made so many unforced errors. And people soon forget that she was up 5-0 yesterday against Lindsay before her injury flared up. If not for that injury, Venus would be holding the trophy today and deep inside Lindsay knows that.
:rolleyes: Yes Venus made many more errors, so therefore Lindsay was the better player. Why do people always make so many excuses.

bandabou
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:30 PM
Well today there ainīt no excuses. Serena got her ass kicked coming and going.

MagicMilan
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:30 PM
Lindsay :worship: :D :angel:
What a way to defeat Serena :eek:
Congrats :clap2:

Stefwhit
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:37 PM
How's the dress in person?
On my television the dress looks more yellowish but in person it's definitely "lime time"...- the same color as a tennis ball, I like it!

I have taped her like 5 times and she lost three times and twice pretty lopsided...
Well I've never seen Serena win a tournament in person. I've seen her win her QF and SF match then lose in the finals twice.

Crazy Venus fact: I've only seen Venus play twice and both times she's retired. I've never seen her play a full match. I saw her play Kim at the Championships and I saw her play yesterday. I'm definitely a bad luck charm for Venus.

Weather: There was a nice breeze but it was still too damn hott- I wanted to stay for doubles but my air-conditioned house and pool were calling me.

Congrats to Lindz- today she was the better player and most deserving of her win, but if I was her I'd be careful the next time they play. Something tells me Serena is looking forward to it, I know I am.

bandabou
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:40 PM
:lol: So I guess itīs just coincidence....man, man. Didnīt know that comebacks could be this taxing to fans. Now I feel how the Lindsay-fans were feeling two years ago...

selesfan
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:44 PM
Congrats Lindsay!:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

lizchris
Jul 25th, 2004, 11:54 PM
:rolleyes: Yes Venus made many more errors, so therefore Lindsay was the better player. Why do people always make so many excuses.
They are not excuses; they are the truth.

Jeleno Benesovo
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:03 AM
what a way to thrash and chop both williamses by Lindsay :banana:

stijntje
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:04 AM
Great job Lindsay! ;)

First Venus, now Serena!

tenn_ace
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:06 AM
Venus would have won Stanford had she not made so many unforced errors. And people soon forget that she was up 5-0 yesterday against Lindsay before her injury flared up. If not for that injury, Venus would be holding the trophy today and deep inside Lindsay knows that.

ue are a part of tennis... the fact that she was making them means she needs to practice hard and to become a better player. Linds WAS the better one in the final. so all these "ifs" is nothing but an attempt to bash Linds' win

PatM04
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:10 AM
Way to go Lindsay:)

Good luck to both Serena and Lindsay in San Diego next week!

lizchris
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:11 AM
ue are a part of tennis... the fact that she was making them means she needs to practice hard and to become a better player. Linds WAS the better one in the final. so all these "ifs" is nothing but an attempt to bash Linds' win
No offense, but one of the reasons I don't like when the sisters lose is that it gives licnese for the fans of others who resent the Williams sisters sucess to bash them.

Crazy_Fool
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:11 AM
ue are a part of tennis... the fact that she was making them means she needs to practice hard and to become a better player. Linds WAS the better one in the final. so all these "ifs" is nothing but an attempt to bash Linds' win
Yeah, but you should be used to it now on this board, i expected more than there has been, its kinda mellow, most fans are being gracious.

They are not excuses; they are the truth.
The truth is Lindsay was the better player, thats the only truth. If most players cut down their ue they would be in better positions to win.

Leo_DFP
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:12 AM
Davenport played a great first set and a solid second set, coming up with good stuff from break point down. Serena never found a real rhythm although she definitely started to improve her serve and groundies near the end of the match. Had she converted on her 15-40 chance at 3-5, I think it could have become a close 3-set battle like last week's final because Davenport's game was starting to slip ever so slightly.

I think the sun had a lot to do with Serena's problems. She played her last two matches at night and therefore wasn't using to serving with the sun in her face, unlike Davenport who had this same start time yestrerday against Venus.

I also think that the Williams fans are getting way too negative. The competition is stronger than before and Venus and Serena need to improve their games. It may not be easy and it may not happen for them straight away, but they know this and I think they will re-dedicate themselves to the game fully, body and mind, so that they can cut out these losses. Their careers are certainly not "over."

Keep notching up these titles and wearing that sexy yellow jacket, Lindsay. :kiss: The only problem with her success is that Davenport won't get to go into the US Open under the radar this year; she'll be one of the top two or three favorites, for sure, and she doesn't like that kind of attention surrounding her. I hope that doesn't panic Lindsay and I definitely hope that she's not peaking too early, in terms of form.

tenn_ace
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:14 AM
No offense, but one of the reasons I don't like when the sisters lose is that it gives licnese for the fans of others who resent the Williams sisters sucess to bash them.

how does it relate to my post? the only way I could inteprete it is that you did indeed bashed Linds win.

Leo_DFP
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:14 AM
Just some random stats for Lindsay:

1st title win with back-to back victories over the Williams (although one was a retirement)
4th title this year
4th LA title in 9 finals
11th Californian title in her career
42nd title over all

lizchris
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:16 AM
how does it relate to my post? the only way I could inteprete it is that you did indeed bashed Linds win.
I wasn't referring to you, but to others in this thread.

Alek
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:17 AM
Congratulations Lindsay :D

volta
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:17 AM
In BallsBuster's thread last night about why fans desert their favorites when they lose, this is a prime example of why in particular as a Williams fan I don't care to come to this board especially when Serena or Venus loses.

Serena has had a wonderful week of tennis where she's produced some great matches, in particular against Vera. She loses a final to Lindsay. It was not pretty of course, that cannot be denied. But lamenting that now this is the definitive end for Serena of all players... she may not have had her serve, she may have had too many unforced errors that clearly affected her game, but she fought til the end.

Should we start a petition for Serena to simply retire now since losing to Lindsay seems to be a sin? The girl can still play - that goes for both Lindsay and Serena. Things are not over, it wasn't the result but my goodness... I guess I just hate reactions like this. I can't even fault you for it, but dang.exactly i though i was the only 1 that never likes to come here when my girls lose cuz i know that bullsh!t will be said. look at WInbledon final and all iīm "new" here but just realised that almost every1 likes to say that the girls are done when they lose.so much hate over my girls i donīt even know why and honestly i donīt wanna know.


Congratz Lindsay you played better you deserved to win

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:18 AM
Venusīs loss might have been due to ufe...but Serena just got destoyed. Plain and simple.

thelittlestelf
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:18 AM
Serena's biggest problem is she is simply pushing balls over the net and relying on her speed to get to the flats her opponent knocks back at her, sometimes even when she's controlling a point! Mary Joe Fernandez pointed this out, and I noticed that a lot of things she finds tend to be correct, in spite of what some people on the board may think.

lizchris
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:20 AM
exactly i though i was the only 1 that never likes to come here when my girls lose cuz i know that bullsh!t will be said. look at WInbledon final and all iīm "new" here but just realised that almost every1 likes to say that the girls are done when they lose.so much hate over my girls i donīt even know why and honestly i donīt wanna know.


Congratz Lindsay you played better you deserved to win
Two reasons: Jealously and resentment

Leo_DFP
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:20 AM
Do posters here not like Mary Joe? :eek: IMO, she is our best female commentator besides Mary Carillo. Certainly better than Tracy, Pam, and Chrissie.

tenn_ace
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:22 AM
she's a lot better when she is not with Pammy... when Pammy is there, MJ kisses up too much and agrees with everything Pammy says

*JR*
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:33 AM
No offense, but one of the reasons I don't like when the sisters lose is that it gives licnese for the fans of others who resent the Williams sisters sucess to bash them.No offense, but if they always WON, you'd see the kind of racism we both did earlier today from One Of Our Old GoTennis "friends"... times 10. Remember how "Rational" Danny (mulder_xf@webtv.net) would say they had an Unfair Advantage, etc?

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:38 AM
And Serena was just sooooooo predictable. she NEVER went dtl or something, always cross-court....Lindsay wasnīt even moving, because she knew the ball was coming cross-court...pathetic.

foreva lindsay
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:43 AM
Some great pics of lindsay after her final win :worship: :hearts:

sbmh
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:53 AM
Congrats Lindsay

Dan23
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:57 AM
Well done Lindsay, 6-1 6-3 is a very one sided score :yeah:

!<blocparty>!
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:12 AM
OMG

I am shocked by the scoeline :eek:

Congrats Linds :bounce: I can't wait to see the match!!!!!!!!!

Sounds like she played great tennis today :d

ys
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:14 AM
Nice spanking. I guess the dummy is back to 20% :haha:

!<blocparty>!
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:15 AM
ps - Jon (John :unsure: ) Should attend every tourney she plays in now :p

lizchris
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:21 AM
Nice spanking. I guess the dummy is back to 20% :haha:At least she got to the final. If I am not mistaken, a Russian, who is probably dumber than Serena, only won two games against Lindsay in the quarterfinal. And the sad part? Nadia gave 100% and that was the best she could do.:lol:

ys
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:24 AM
At least she got to the final. If I am not mistaken, a Russian, who is probably dumber than Serena, only won two games against Lindsay in the quarterfinal.
She never claimed being at 20% or at 30%.. That's what dumbness is baout, not about who is better at hitting the small yellow item. I am sure, many posters here are very bad at tennis, but they are humble and intelligent. Serena lately behaves as boasting fool who can't walk the walk.

lizchris
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:26 AM
She never claimed being at 20% or at 30%.. That's what dumbness is baout, not about who is better at hitting the small yellow item. I am sure, many posters here are very bad at tennis, but they are humble and intelligent. Serena lately behaves as boasting fool who can't walk the walk.
I'll take a boasting fool who was able to win a title in her first win back from injury rather than somene who has never won a title.

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:28 AM
She already walked the talk in the past ys....and if sheīs talking right now, then I guess this really should have shut her up, not that Iīve heard her do any talking.

DemWilliamsGulls
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:29 AM
I dont know what Serena was doing the first set...i've never seen her play like that since the late 90's. I was impressed how Lindsay was running down those balls...props to her. Right now I still say Venus and Serena is paying half as good as they can....looks like Lindsay has her eyes on another slam! I would be nice to see either Capriati or Lindsay win another slam other than my dynamic duo...but Vee and Rena...baby its time to put those other things to side and get back to your day job.....you can sell a "how to play tennis book" when you are not on your game...I still love them though. ;)

faste5683
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:32 AM
Do posters here not like Mary Joe? :eek: IMO, she is our best female commentator besides Mary Carillo. Certainly better than Tracy, Pam, and Chrissie.

I think Mary Joe is terrific. She's young, was an excellent player, and seems to become more polished with every event. Tracy and Chrissie don't even come close.
Pam is a riot, and good - very good. Mary Carillo, well Mary is the Howard Cosell of professional tennis. Her lingustic skills are beyond compare, alas, she tends to ramble too much.

:wavey:

Vut
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:33 AM
:eek: Lindsey .... :yeah:

BK4ever
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:34 AM
ys you have to be one of the biggest WS haters out there but you sometimes try to come off as if you are so fair...thats why i dont like you, because you ride the fence...just say you hate them...any fair person would respect you...its the bullshit that you spew out of one side of your mouth that is so disgusting.

Serena has never ever said that her opponents didnt play well in her losses, but her honesty about her own play is a major problem for people. If she feels she only played to 20% of her ability, who are we to argue that...

if serena is a dummy, then i guess most of your russian faves are dumber and dumbest, because most of them have not even come close to achieving what serena has achieved...and maybe if they were more honest about assessing their game, maybe they would be better off.

ys
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:39 AM
She already walked the talk in the past ys.

No question about it, banadabou


...and if sheīs talking right now, then I guess this really should have shut her up, not that Iīve heard her do any talking.
She says that she was 20% at the biggest stage in tennis. What does it say about her?

Yesterday, she beats Dementieva and she is at 30%. Perhaps, because she was throughly outplayed off the ground yesterday. take 15 DFs out of the scoreline and you'll see where her ground game is. And that is after half of year after her comeback.


Today she got crushed by fading, talking retirement Davenport. I mean, seriously. It is not getting any better. We hear it since March probably - that she finds its necesary to emphasize that tennis is her priority, that she is improving and will improve even more. Somehow, I think that if it were true, she would not have been that obsessed about saying it again and again. As oriental wisdom says - no matter how many times you say "Honey", it won't get any sweeter in your mouth.

ys
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:42 AM
ys you have to be one of the biggest WS haters out there but you sometimes try to come off as if you are so fair...thats why i dont like you, because you ride the fence...just say you hate them...any fair person would respect you...its the bullshit that you spew out of one side of your mouth that is so disgusting.
I hate no one, I do dislike arrogant fools, and Venus Williams is not one of them. So even in BK4ever-speak, I am not a WS-hater.


Serena has never ever said that her opponents didnt play well in her losses, but her honesty about her own play is a major problem for people. If she feels she only played to 20% of her ability, who are we to argue that...

Indeed , who we are to argue that 20% of Serena Williams can beat our favourite players. I guess, it should be taken as flattering to those players, rigth?

lizchris
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:45 AM
No question about it, banadabou


She says that she was 20% at the biggest stage in tennis. What does it say about her?

Yesterday, she beats Dementieva and she is at 30%. Perhaps, because she was throughly outplayed off the ground yesterday. take 15 DFs out of the scoreline and you'll see where her ground game is. And that is after half of year after her comeback.


Today she got crushed by fading, talking retirement Davenport. I mean, seriously. It is not getting any better. We hear it since March probably - that she finds its necesary to emphasize that tennis is her priority, that she is improving and will improve even more. Somehow, I think that if it were true, she would not have been that obsessed about saying it again and again. As oriental wisdom says - no matter how many times you say "Honey", it won't get any sweeter in your mouth.

Serena took out two Russians, both of whom are curretnly ranked higher than her. Lindsay, who is suppsoed to be retiring, dismissed one who was suppoed to give her a challenge. IF I were you, I'd be more concerned aobut your Russian favorites than what Serena is doing.

~ The Leopard ~
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:46 AM
I hope you are being sarcastic, bandabou. Serena is far from over. She just made the final of Wimbledon...and now another final. She is playing like a top-5 player. Would anyone who is currently playing (Momo, Nastya, Elena D....) have won those matches against Masha and Lindsay, given the form they were in in the respective tournaments? They would have had to play at about 110%. If Serena lost, put it down to the fact that she wasn't able to lift to her very best level, but that she was still good enough to make the finals and beat some very good players on the way. She'll soon be top-5 again.

Whether she can be number 1 again is another story, but that's only because the general level has now improved so much...mainly because Venus and Serena raised the bar.

BK4ever
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:48 AM
There is no doubt Serena is not the player she used to be, but I think she is struggling most with how long its taking for her to get her groove back...winning Miami was actually the worse thing that could have happened to her this season, it gave her false security. Even though she has been back for a few months, injury hear and there has not allowed her to get back into a playing groove. she needs to play a few heavy weeks to get her game and confidence back, i have no doubt that she will eventually find the formula

The one thing that I notice about Rena is that she is just not moving as well as she use to...its like she has the knee injury in the back of her mind. Also, she is not nearly as aggressive as she use to be and thats what bothers me the most. Her second serve has also lost about 10mph...she needs to get it back where it use to be.

StarDuvallGrant
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:50 AM
In BallsBuster's thread last night about why fans desert their favorites when they lose, this is a prime example of why in particular as a Williams fan I don't care to come to this board especially when Serena or Venus loses.

Serena has had a wonderful week of tennis where she's produced some great matches, in particular against Vera. She loses a final to Lindsay. It was not pretty of course, that cannot be denied. But lamenting that now this is the definitive end for Serena of all players... she may not have had her serve, she may have had too many unforced errors that clearly affected her game, but she fought til the end.

Should we start a petition for Serena to simply retire now since losing to Lindsay seems to be a sin? The girl can still play - that goes for both Lindsay and Serena. Things are not over, it wasn't the result but my goodness... I guess I just hate reactions like this. I can't even fault you for it, but dang.


:worship:

ys
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:50 AM
Serena took out two Russians, both of whom are curretnly ranked higher than her. Lindsay, who is suppsoed to be retiring, dismissed one who was suppoed to give her a challenge. IF I were you, I'd be more concerned aobut your Russian favorites than what Serena is doing.
None of them has ever done really well on US hardcourts in the past. They are already doing better than an year ago. They migth not dominate this year. It's OK with me. I have patience. Time is on our side. Russian players are going up. US players are going down. This year, next year, just a matter of when, not a matter of if.

~ The Leopard ~
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:54 AM
As for the 20% comment by Serena, I put that down to her clowning around and not realising how arrogant it can sound if she seems to be suggesting that 25% (say) of her normal level is better than everyone else. We oughtta get off her back about it and realise that she just has this habit of using hyperbole to denigrate her own performances.

I didn't see the match against Lindsay. I did see the match against Maria. Serena played much as she always does but Maria played sensationally and frustrated her. It was not an inspired performance by Serena, but not especially below her usual level. I guess you could say it was a bit below the level she usually achieves in the biggest matches when she really has to go up yet another gear. She failed to do that, or Maria stopped her from doing it.

Next time she'll have to grit her teeth, not get frustrated at playing someone who can sometimes outhit her, find that extra gear, and maybe adopt some new strategies. If she does all that, she'll beat Masha.

But, hey, even when she's not doing all that, and even with the standard so much higher now, Serena is still one of the five or so best players in the world.

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:55 AM
I hope you are being sarcastic, bandabou. Serena is far from over. She just made the final of Wimbledon...and now another final. She is playing like a top-5 player. Would anyone who is currently playing (Momo, Nastya, Elena D....) have won those matches against Masha and Lindsay, given the form they were in in the respective tournaments? They would have had to play at about 110%. If Serena lost, put it down to the fact that she wasn't able to lift to her very best level, but that she was still good enough to make the finals and beat some very good players on the way. She'll soon be top-5 again.

Whether she can be number 1 again is another story, but that's only because the general level has now improved so much...mainly because Venus and Serena raised the bar.



Hmmmmm, hmmmm....sometimes you sound even more like a fan than I do..

lizchris
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:57 AM
None of them has ever done really well on US hardcourts in the past. They are already doing better than an year ago. They migth not dominate this year. It's OK with me. I have patience. Time is on our side. Russian players are going up. US players are going down. This year, next year, just a matter of when, not a matter of if.
If the US players are going down, then why have they reached the finals of two hardcourt events so far and could make it three in a row next weekend? And why are they numbers 1-3 in the US Open Series race at the moment. In fact, only one Russian is in the top eight.

Hantuchov
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:57 AM
Lindsay :worship:

esquímaux
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:59 AM
Wow. :lol:

sartrista7
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:59 AM
The one thing that I notice about Rena is that she is just not moving as well as she use to...its like she has the knee injury in the back of her mind. Also, she is not nearly as aggressive as she use to be and thats what bothers me the most. Her second serve has also lost about 10mph...she needs to get it back where it use to be.

This is all true - especially about the second serve, she hit a couple of total puffballs which virtually sat up and begged Lindsay to stomp on them - but what was most lacking was her mental strength. Remember how Serena used to be Princess Choke in 2000-01? Right now... she panics in the big finals, gets nervous and looks completely helpless, as if she doesn't know what to do to fix her game.

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:00 AM
There is no doubt Serena is not the player she used to be, but I think she is struggling most with how long its taking for her to get her groove back...winning Miami was actually the worse thing that could have happened to her this season, it gave her false security. Even though she has been back for a few months, injury hear and there has not allowed her to get back into a playing groove. she needs to play a few heavy weeks to get her game and confidence back, i have no doubt that she will eventually find the formula

The one thing that I notice about Rena is that she is just not moving as well as she use to...its like she has the knee injury in the back of her mind. Also, she is not nearly as aggressive as she use to be and thats what bothers me the most. Her second serve has also lost about 10mph...she needs to get it back where it use to be.


Yep....her speed is still there, but it is her footwork that is dooming her. Plus she isnīt hitting the balls deep nor going for the lines like she used....and she doesnīt come up with those big serves at crunch time anymore either. Sometimes losing can be good...will give her some toughness hopefully for the next time.

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:02 AM
No question about it, banadabou


She says that she was 20% at the biggest stage in tennis. What does it say about her?

Yesterday, she beats Dementieva and she is at 30%. Perhaps, because she was throughly outplayed off the ground yesterday. take 15 DFs out of the scoreline and you'll see where her ground game is. And that is after half of year after her comeback.


Today she got crushed by fading, talking retirement Davenport. I mean, seriously. It is not getting any better. We hear it since March probably - that she finds its necesary to emphasize that tennis is her priority, that she is improving and will improve even more. Somehow, I think that if it were true, she would not have been that obsessed about saying it again and again. As oriental wisdom says - no matter how many times you say "Honey", it won't get any sweeter in your mouth.


Now, now....there you might have a point. If Serena keeps making those statements, then over time she will have to back them up....but sometimes you say something, but you mean another.

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:04 AM
This is all true - especially about the second serve, she hit a couple of total puffballs which virtually sat up and begged Lindsay to stomp on them - but what was most lacking was her mental strength. Remember how Serena used to be Princess Choke in 2000-01? Right now... she panics in the big finals, gets nervous and looks completely helpless, as if she doesn't know what to do to fix her game.


Very odd....I mean at wimbledon she could fight down and hit some big shots at crunch against Momo, but when it was the finals?! Serena could barely move...she is really gone backwards in that department. She ainīt money in big matches anymore.

mykarma
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:05 AM
I agree with this. From what I saw (or *felt*) from Serena was anxiousness; starting from the first serve of the match to the final point. I know that when I'm in a big match and feeling nervous, the coordination (timing) is the first thing to go. For some reason or another, Serena is putting some heavy, self-inflicted pressure on herself. Lindsay, who played a competent, professional match, basically did her thing and watched Serena self-destruct.

Serena AND Venus will be "back", heck, they already are. But things do change - and the new kids on the block never stop coming...or improving.

:wavey:Hey Faste, I agree with you about Serena putting additional pressure on herself. Even though I love Serena, happy to see Lindsay playing well again.

BTW, tried to send you an email to say hi, but couldn't.

AKA: kgsuv

~ The Leopard ~
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:06 AM
Hmmmmm, hmmmm....sometimes you sound even more like a fan than I do..
The thing is I actually like Venus and Serena, and always have. They seem like nice enough people. I kind of cheer against them :devil: because I got sick of them dominating...and simply crushing everyone...in 2002. I find it hard to cheer for someone who seems invincible.

I had the same problem with Graf, Seles and Hingis at different times. It's always easier (for me) to root for a player who just might lose. I've actually found myself rooting for the sisters now and again, of late. :D

ys
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:06 AM
Very odd....I mean at wimbledon she could fight down and hit some big shots at crunch against Momo, but when it was the finals?! Serena could barely move...she is really gone backwards in that department. She ainīt money in big matches anymore.
Yep. The only tournament that she has won since her comeback, she probably won because in the final she faced someone who is even worse in that department.

mykarma
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:08 AM
Uhum, uhum....thing is I have taped her like 5 times and she lost three times and twice pretty lopsided...I guess Iīm just too hard on her. Hopefully sheīll bounce back in time.Hopefully, you'll stop taping her matches. ;)

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:09 AM
The thing is I actually like Venus and Serena, and always have. They seem like nice enough people. I kind of cheer against them :devil: because I got sick of them dominating...and simply crushing everyone...in 2002. I find it hard to cheer for someone who seems invincible.

I had the same problem with Graf, Seles and Hingis at different times. It's always easier (for me) to root for a player who just might lose. I've actually found myself rooting for the sisters now and again, of late. :D


Like that, huh?! I know youīre for real. I must admit that after going through the ī02-ī03 phase of them winning everything, itīs kinda hard now for me to see them losing more often nowadays....but on the same hand, you canīt keep winning them all. There are other people who deserve to win sometimes too, I guess, huh?! Hopefully Momo will join that group soon....:lol:

men in black
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:10 AM
The best part is that Lindsay beat Venus first and then crushed Serena.
Back to Back.
http://www.gotennis.com/Photos/2004-07-24T052352Z_01_LAC15D_RTRIDSP_2_SPORT-TENNIS.jpg
This must be a hard pill to swallow for all the Williams fans. :bounce: :lol:

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:11 AM
Hopefully, you'll stop taping her matches. ;)

Consider it done...:lol:

ys
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:11 AM
The best part is that Lindsay beat Venus first and then crushed Serena.
Back to Back.
Something that has never been accomplished on US soil before. :worship:

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:12 AM
Yep. The only tournament that she has won since her comeback, she probably won because in the final she faced someone who is even worse in that department.


Seeing the results of her last two finals, I wouldnīt deny that in any chance.

Mr_Molik
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:12 AM
:eek: awesome lindsay :bounce: :worship:

ys
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:13 AM
Seeing the results of her last two finals, I wouldnīt deny that in any chance.
Whose last two finals you meant, Dementieva's or Serena's? :haha:

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:13 AM
Something that has never been accomplished on US soil before. :worship:


Yeah...kinda, because both times Venus had to retire..but the first three times it happened were all in Australia..:eek:

men in black
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:13 AM
Serena Goes Down
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040725/capt.camt10307252201.carson_camt103.jpg

rue
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:14 AM
That was a really tremendous match from Lindsay and I bet you if she does win this next one coming up this week, she will definitely go into the US Open as the favorite to win it. She is playing really well and I am really impressed by her. All credit to her.

Serena again just was not playing well. She seemed really flat out there today, just not being able to play the way she wanted to. I think part of the reason is because Lindsay did not allow Serena to play her normal game. Even though Serena got 80% of first serves in, she still was losing many points on her serve. She will have to step it up in the next few weeks if she wants to win the Olympics and the US Open.

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:14 AM
Whose last two finals you meant, Dementieva's or Serena's? :haha:


:haha: Not MUCH difference going on there, huh?!

franny
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:25 AM
What was Lindsay's Winners to unforced error ratio? It's gotta have been pretty dang good. Congrats Lindsay! Good luck next time Serena!

MisterQ
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:26 AM
congrats lindsay! very impressive! :)

UDiTY
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:27 AM
:eek: wOW...I haven't seen Serena play that bad since prolly '98. She had nothing on her groundstrokes, and she was tentative from start to finish.

And all those BP's in the second set...she needs to take the point from Lindsay and she wasn't doing that.

Let's hope she picks it up b4 the Olympics and the Open.

;) Good playing Lindz...and congrats on joining the elite list of players who have beaten both the Willies in the same tourney.

aimee20
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:27 AM
One of the few that has beated the Williams sisters back to back.
http://www.gotennis.com/Photos/2004-07-24T052352Z_01_LAC15D_RTRIDSP_2_SPORT-TENNIS.jpg
:bounce:
I love this pic
I think I'll use this pic as my wallpaper on my screen

men in black
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:35 AM
I love this pic
I think I'll use this pic as my wallpaper on my screen
LOL :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Stefwhit
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:37 AM
Just some random stats for Lindsay:

1st title win with back-to back victories over the Williams (although one was a retirement)
4th title this year
4th LA title in 9 finals
11th Californian title in her career
42nd title over all

With her great play over the week she moves ahead of Chris Everet as the second most successful player at the JP Morgan event- which is one the longest running events on tour, 29 years.
1. Maritina N- 58-6
2. Lindsay- 40-8
3. Chris Evert- 35-4
4. Amy Frazier- 30-12
5. Monica- 23-3
(6. Serena- 22-5)

LDVTennis
Jul 26th, 2004, 03:27 AM
And Serena was just sooooooo predictable. she NEVER went dtl or something, always cross-court....Lindsay wasnīt even moving, because she knew the ball was coming cross-court...pathetic.


Hey bandabou, seems like I do know a lot about Serena's game. Heck, you even agree with me.

Maybe, you should do Serena a favor and send her the analysis of her game I did. You know where to find it.

thelittlestelf
Jul 26th, 2004, 03:55 AM
I completely agree that Serena was playing at about 20% of her level today. If you watch matches from say last year or 2002, you would notice that she didn't have to defend as much then. Why you ask? The difference is Serena is not hitting the ball as hard as she did in 2002 or 2003. No it is not because of her fitness, it is because of her mentality! It's not her lack of thinking, it's the fact that she's thinking too much. As the ball is coming to her at warp speed, imagine the thoughts going through Serena's head. All these thoughts cause her to nervously push the ball over the net leaving easy shots or even putaways for her opponent.

Why do you think Serena plays better on faster surfaces? Sure her serve is more formidable and her groundstrokes are more penetrating, but the BIGGEST advantage she has is that she doesn't have time to think! Sometimes a player has so much talent that they play best when they don't have to think at all, they just let things flow. Serena is just one of these players.

Leo_DFP
Jul 26th, 2004, 04:01 AM
Yeah...kinda, because both times Venus had to retire..but the first three times it happened were all in Australia..:eek:
It's not actually that surprising since neither Serena nor Venus have ever shown their best tennis in Australia. They start off the year rusty and usually by this part of the year they are both in full flight. Not so in 2004.

Leo_DFP
Jul 26th, 2004, 04:13 AM
What was Lindsay's Winners to unforced error ratio? It's gotta have been pretty dang good. Congrats Lindsay! Good luck next time Serena!
12 and 12. But in the first set she had just 1 unforced error to probably 8 winners. The second set was just a decent set from her, but the first was spectacular. :worship:

tterb
Jul 26th, 2004, 04:14 AM
I think BK4ever was right on about Serena... Her second serve was sitting up more, and she was relying too much on running shots down rather than dictating points, much like she did against Vera. I do think at various points in both her QF and F match Serena was trying to hit out, and was putting the ball deep - it's just that she couldn't quite seem to put away winners when she went for them. Once she made some unforced errors after going for winners, I think she lost some confidence and tried to hit with a bigger margin of error, not going for the lines as much. But today, Lindsay wasn't missing AT ALL for a set and a half, and Serena couldn't just rely on moving Davenport until she missed, because it wasn't happening. Davenport was matching Serena powerwise, as well as changing the direction of the ball and using some beautiful angles when Serena would get her into a rally.

I think it also does have something to do with Serena getting tight in finals for some reason... I mean, she fought through her Wimbledon SF with Mauresmo and her L.A. QF with Vera, but in both finals just couldn't raise her game. I think that's got to be due to a combination of some recently developed lack of mental strength in big finals as well as the level of play of her opponents in the finals (which at both Wimbledon and L.A. were awesome).

beauty_is_pink
Jul 26th, 2004, 04:14 AM
OMG LINDSAY!!!!!

YAYYYYYY!!! :worship:

jean_genie
Jul 26th, 2004, 04:16 AM
Congratulations Lindsay. Get to work, Serena and take my all time favorite, your sister with you. Get 'em at the Acura. GO VENUS!!!

miranda_lou
Jul 26th, 2004, 04:20 AM
LDVTennis, the entire time I was watching the match today I was thinking about your incredible analysis of Serena's game. You were so "on the money" it's scary. If other players do what Maria S. and Lindsay D. are doing, Serena might never win another big tournament again.:lol:

Serena looks a bit overweight so, obviously, she hasn't worried too much about going to the gym. By the end of the first couple of games, she was breathing hard and moving slowly. She really needs to get serious again about her tennis and about keeping in shape. Otherwise, I guess she can just go into acting full time. I'm sure Hollywood is waiting with bated breath.:lol: :lol: She's so good, you know. She compares herself to O.J. Simpson, one of the greatest actors in the history of Hollywood.:lol: :lol:

tterb
Jul 26th, 2004, 04:21 AM
Also, I agree with Leo about the 20% comments. BK4ever, Serena may be being honest in her mind about her level of play, but that doesn't make what she says a fact that shouldn't be questioned. If she said she was around 70% or 80%, I'd be more inclined to agree, as those are reasonable numbers (not that she would or should give a damn about my assessment). It's no doubt that she didn't bring her best game in her losses, but IMHO, if she truly believes she was at 20% or so, she's deluding herself about her abilities or seriously underestimating her opponents' abilities. I'm sure it's just that she's not used to other players having the belief and ability to beat her, and she's just exaggerating about her performances somewhat.

But the thing is, I don't think there's going to be much dominance from anyone these days. The difference between the top players is so minimal anymore that if any one part of Serena's game is off - footwork (especially poor lately), serve, or shot selection, for instance - she can't expect to trounce people anymore. So many players have the weapons and belief to do well right now - Elena's ground game, Mauresmo's all-court game, Lindsay's serve and groundtrokes, Myskina's tactical awareness, Justine's variety and mental strength, Venus's defense-to-offense with one shot ability... the list is endless.

That all said, I don't think it's reasonable for people to give up on Serena. When she improves her footwork and second serve and gets more match play and mental toughness, she'll challenge for the top again. Hell, she's already sixth in points earned this year with only seven tourneys played, which is a hell of a comeback after 8 months... She still has the ability to get back to the top, but so do a growing number of players. So I'm not even sure Serena's pre-injury success can be repeated... and if it can, it may take longer and be more difficult than people expect to accomplish.

Fedex
Jul 26th, 2004, 05:36 AM
Lindsay!!! :D :woohoo: :banana: :bounce: I'm so happy she won. She just played too good today. :yeah: Congrats on her 42nd career title. :worship: :worship: I agree with the poster who said Kim and Justine would slaghter Serena. I cant wait till they meet. ;) I hope Lindsay can have a good run at the Open, maybe win it all. :D

Martian Jeza
Jul 26th, 2004, 07:39 AM
:bounce: :bounce:

How more the Williams Sisters are beaten the better :)

Rub
Jul 26th, 2004, 07:55 AM
lindsay is amazing! :dance:

WSfan
Jul 26th, 2004, 08:56 AM
Congratulations Lindsay!!! Awesome job... Man Serenas' footwork was just horrible... She needs to get on a roll soon or she'll never be as good as she was before...

GoSandrine
Jul 26th, 2004, 09:03 AM
Lindsay wow!!! :eek: :D :yeah: Congrats!!! :aparty: Question is can she hold up and put together two solid weeks in New York? Would be a a wonderful cap on her career if she could win another slam and now she has to be considered one of the faves. :)

but Serena omg :o :smash: She really is in a funk. :sad: Hope she gets herself together soon. :hug:

mandy7
Jul 26th, 2004, 09:04 AM
:yeah: lindsay :bounce:

Nikki
Jul 26th, 2004, 09:05 AM
Congrats Lindsay on a great tournament:bounce:

t_fan
Jul 26th, 2004, 09:11 AM
Congrats Lindsay! :bounce: That was a great win! The match resembled Wimby final very much, IMHO. What a difference confidence makes. Serena's been playing jerky, reflex tennis. When confidence is here and everything goes in, it's amazing. When not it's pathetic. Lindsay played accurately and confidently and thoroughly deserved the win.

Beat
Jul 26th, 2004, 09:42 AM
42nd title over all

:worship:
congrats, lindsay!! *very much looking forward to the replay on eurosport*

fifiricci
Jul 26th, 2004, 10:11 AM
No offense, but one of the reasons I don't like when the sisters lose is that it gives licnese for the fans of others who resent the Williams sisters sucess to bash them.
Sorry, but thats complete bollocks!!! You are trying to justify a loss by indiscriminately attacking others and assuming that everyone hates the WS. This happens so often and quite frankly its pathetic!

Chance
Jul 26th, 2004, 10:27 AM
I thought this match would be closer... congratulations Lindsay, better luck next time Rena... Serena's confidence will come back, just needs a lil more time.

It's strange how the fan base of whoever beats a WS suddenly doubles overnight......

Venus+Serena#1fan
Jul 26th, 2004, 10:35 AM
Well played by Lindsay and well deserved. She was DEFINETLEY the BETTER player today.

Serena was AWFUL. She mishit just about 50% of the shots, she was either tentative or missing by ALOT trying to be agressive, just flat out THE WORSE MATCH IVE EVER SEEN HER PLAY. It was almost like she didnt even try in the 1st set, and then in the 2nd when she had the break points, she lost all of them on errors.

The good news is, Serena knows it. Sheīs aware of just how "horrible" she was, so thats a reality check and a sign that she will focus and improve. With many tournaments coming up, she can only get better.

Serena (and Vee too) will be back with revenge!!! But congrats Lindz :)

foreva lindsay
Jul 26th, 2004, 11:20 AM
Lindsay :worship::bowdown::worship:

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 11:35 AM
Hey bandabou, seems like I do know a lot about Serena's game. Heck, you even agree with me.

Maybe, you should do Serena a favor and send her the analysis of her game I did. You know where to find it.


You were right on the money....scary. Hmm, hmm..but I donīt get why it only gets this bad in finals?!

moby
Jul 26th, 2004, 11:53 AM
was lindsay in the zone?
if she was, then there isn't much serena can do about it anyway, unless she was zoning too?

faste5683
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:03 PM
Hey Faste, I agree with you about Serena putting additional pressure on herself. Even though I love Serena, happy to see Lindsay playing well again.

BTW, tried to send you an email to say hi, but couldn't.

AKA: kgsuv

I have the email thingy turned off. Yeah, I miss our conversations over at Yahoo General, but that place has turned into a blood-bath. :eek:

Serena (and Venus) will be fine - and as always, very exciting to watch. However, times change and I don't see them continuing the dominance they once had. Linsday is on a roll, isn't she? :eek:

I believe that Justine will be in the same situation as Vee and Rena when she comes back. I'm gearing myself up for that long, frustrating comeback trail.

:wavey:

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:06 PM
Lindsay zoned, but NO WAY should Serena lose sets 6-1 to anybody.

TatiAnnahølic
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:09 PM
:eek: wow!! congrats Lindsay! :D :worship:

better luck next time Serena

Tompier
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:36 PM
I watched the second set, both were making unfirced errors but more on Serena's side of course. Very impresive Lindsay :bounce: I'm so happy for you

Hagar
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:41 PM
Awesome display by Lindsay but someone needs to tell Serena to clean up her act.
I hated it when she was dominating and beating my fave Kim so often but I notice that I hate it even more if she's playing so mediocre like yesterday. We all know she can do much better.
Serena, get yourself a real tennis coach ASAP so that you can finetune some parts of your game.

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:50 PM
It is funny...she can step it up even when playing badly in the earlier rounds but then she completely gets lost in the F...not good.

Venus+Serena#1fan
Jul 26th, 2004, 12:52 PM
No serena did not "zone" she was as far from the zone as she could possibly be.

mentos
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:19 PM
wow! @ the serena bandwagon coming unwheeled. congrats to linzi. babygirl needs to work out the kinks cause she's playing like serena2000...inconsistent. her pride will not permit this suspect play to continue.

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:24 PM
It is not even incosistent...not many "bad" losses, just that she canīt win the big matches.

lizchris
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:26 PM
Sorry, but thats complete bollocks!!! You are trying to justify a loss by indiscriminately attacking others and assuming that everyone hates the WS. This happens so often and quite frankly its pathetic!
I don't assume that everyone hates the sisters, but many do resent them and are jealous of them.

And I wasn't justifying Serena's loss; she deserved to lose because she played slopppy.

TonyP
Jul 26th, 2004, 03:23 PM
Serena's play does not seem as bad as some are saying. Serving at 70 percent is pretty darn good,and although she only hit 3 aces, that's better than no aces.

And 29 unforced errors? Serena often hits 20 per set and wins!

The truth is, Serena is now not beating the top players. She was very lucky to get out of the quarter finals alive. Vera choked a game midway through the third, in effect giving Serena the match.

And the semis were even luckier for Serena. Dementieva gave her 15 free points in two sets. Still, it wound up 6-4, 7-6. Elena is faster around the court than Serena, has cleaner ground strokes and easily out volleys Serena. If Elena fixes her serve, she will be more than a match for either Williams sister now.

Has Serena let her skills atrophy while consumed with outside activities? Yes, but there is something else at work here, too. Other players have simply gotten a handle on Serena's game and can deal with her.

This tournament should finally shut the door on the idea that the Willies are the two best players in tennis. They were for a short period of time, but it is over now. They may or may not get back to their previous level.

But they are no longer the shadow government of women's tennis, no matter what the rankings say. Now, they are both just big scalps that other players know can be taken.

Truth is, there are girls out there much hungrier for tennis success than either Venus or Serena.

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 03:35 PM
Serena's play does not seem as bad as some are saying. Serving at 70 percent is pretty darn good,and although she only hit 3 aces, that's better than no aces.

And 29 unforced errors? Serena often hits 20 per set and wins!

The truth is, Serena is now not beating the top players. She was very lucky to get out of the quarter finals alive. Vera choked a game midway through the third, in effect giving Serena the match.

And the semis were even luckier for Serena. Dementieva gave her 15 free points in two sets. Still, it wound up 6-4, 7-6. Elena is faster around the court than Serena, has cleaner ground strokes and easily out volleys Serena. If Elena fixes her serve, she will be more than a match for either Williams sister now.

Has Serena let her skills atrophy while consumed with outside activities? Yes, but there is something else at work here, too. Other players have simply gotten a handle on Serena's game and can deal with her.

This tournament should finally shut the door on the idea that the Willies are the two best players in tennis. They were for a short period of time, but it is over now. They may or may not get back to their previous level.

But they are no longer the shadow government of women's tennis, no matter what the rankings say. Now, they are both just big scalps that other players know can be taken.

Truth is, there are girls out there much hungrier for tennis success than either Venus or Serena.


Much to tonypīs delight, huh?!

About the QF, it was Serena who choked first....remember that she led 3-0 in the first!! Tjaaa...and Elena D with a better serve. why donīt you give Serena better volley is well then?!

Short period of time,huh?! compared to whom Martina N and Steffi, Iīd suppose.

Of course the girls are getting better, but a normal Serena doesnīt lose 6-1 6-3 and fails to convert 6 bpīs in a row.

rightous
Jul 26th, 2004, 03:41 PM
Two things, fristly great to see Lindsay playing so well - I think she has belief back whether she is looser as its her final yr or perhaps cos she sees everyone around her injuried or not playing well, but she hits the ball cleaner and better than anyone PERIOD (perhaps only Seles can compete with her in this category) but movement etc is her downfall.

Secondly while I'm not a great fan of either sister, I think its just confidence issue, both need to do alot of work on their serve and forehand and get the technique back instead of trying to force it - I think the tour has progressed in their absence and its a case of trying to catch up and also rebuild but they are great champions and I think they can do it

ys
Jul 26th, 2004, 04:13 PM
About the QF, it was Serena who choked first....remember that she led 3-0 in the first!! Tjaaa...and Elena D with a better serve. why donīt you give Serena better volley is well then?!
Serena had a better volley. Improvement in Elena D's serve is not that obvious ( even though I think that her first serve now has much more bite ), but her volley was considered an obvious liability, but on Saturday she maanged to pull off quite a few very good volleys, like that half-volley pick up. Definite improvement, combined with now quite effective transition game.



Of course the girls are getting better, but a normal Serena doesnīt lose 6-1 6-3 and fails to convert 6 bpīs in a row.
That I agree. Something was wrong with Serena yesterday. By the first set I thought she was sick, she was slow, not reacting, barely moving. In the second she got herself together, more or less, still it was very uncharacteristic display.

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 05:38 PM
That I agree. Something was wrong with Serena yesterday. By the first set I thought she was sick, she was slow, not reacting, barely moving. In the second she got herself together, more or less, still it was very uncharacteristic display.

Exactly...and the thing is that usually she can fight through it in the earlier stages, but lately when it is a big match, she is all out of sorts. I hope that it is just a phase that every player goes through when they have spent sometime off the tour....because the basic game is there otherwise she wouldnīt be reaching finals.

Butchwax
Jul 26th, 2004, 06:48 PM
I love this pic
I think I'll use this pic as my wallpaper on my screen
http://www.gotennis.com/Photos/2004-07-24T052352Z_01_LAC15D_RTRIDSP_2_SPORT-TENNIS.jpg
OMG, She looks like something that would eat its young.

Andrew.
Jul 26th, 2004, 07:21 PM
I was at the match, and I was stunned. Serena was making errors at the beginning, but Lindsay was playing some amazingly fearless tennis. The audience was getting really involved in the match, which was nice to see. The second set was fun to watch.

!<blocparty>!
Jul 26th, 2004, 07:57 PM
I was at the match, and I was stunned. Serena was making errors at the beginning, but Lindsay was playing some amazingly fearless tennis. The audience was getting really involved in the match, which was nice to see. The second set was fun to watch.

oh thats so cool Andrew, Lindsay won for you :woohoo:

You must be her good luck charm. I was wandering where you were, LOL.

Anyway, I saw the match this morning, is it me, or was Lindsay's movement just great? :eek:

I dont think she turned her back on any ball?

Jericho
Jul 26th, 2004, 08:00 PM
I was at the match, and I was stunned. Serena was making errors at the beginning, but Lindsay was playing some amazingly fearless tennis. The audience was getting really involved in the match, which was nice to see. The second set was fun to watch.
where were you sitting? were you one of those guys that yelled I Love You Lindsay during the trophy presentation? :p

QUEENLINDSAY
Jul 26th, 2004, 08:07 PM
oh thats so cool Andrew, Lindsay won for you :woohoo:

You must be her good luck charm. I was wandering where you were, LOL.

Anyway, I saw the match this morning, is it me, or was Lindsay's movement just great? :eek:

I dont think she turned her back on any ball?
I think Lindsay's movement is really good now. She dont give up easily.
This is the reason of her success lately. I always knew she has the game to beat the best and she just needs confidence.

GO Lindsay!!!!! I'm proud to be your fan.

!<blocparty>!
Jul 26th, 2004, 08:10 PM
I think Lindsay's movement is really good now. She dont give up easily.
This is the reason of her success lately. I always knew she has the game to beat the best and she just needs confidence.

GO Lindsay!!!!! I'm proud to be your fan.

did you see that break point serena at 5-3 to linds in the second set, amazing point, both players had some great gets, i was like "Lindsay won that point :eek: " :p

jenny161185
Jul 26th, 2004, 08:12 PM
tough luck on Serena but hey she still made the final - Im glad Lindsays been having a great year - She is one of the greatest tennis players ever to watch and one of the most consistent , she hadn t been winning as much since her surgery until this yr and its great to see her being dominant again - would love to see her win USOpen - we all know Serena has alot of titles left in her too!!

DeDe4925
Jul 26th, 2004, 08:19 PM
Well played by Lindsay and well deserved. She was DEFINETLEY the BETTER player today.

Serena was AWFUL. She mishit just about 50% of the shots, she was either tentative or missing by ALOT trying to be agressive, just flat out THE WORSE MATCH IVE EVER SEEN HER PLAY. It was almost like she didnt even try in the 1st set, and then in the 2nd when she had the break points, she lost all of them on errors.

The good news is, Serena knows it. Sheīs aware of just how "horrible" she was, so thats a reality check and a sign that she will focus and improve. With many tournaments coming up, she can only get better.

Serena (and Vee too) will be back with revenge!!! But congrats Lindz :)
Yeah, congrats to Lindsay on a well-deserved victory and for just playing her game. I don't know what's wrong with Serena, but I wish she'd snap out of it. The worst part of it all is that she didn't even seem to care. :sad:

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 08:54 PM
Itīs either all or nothing with Lindsay it seems....ALL her wins against Serena has come in straight sets. I was rooting like mad for Serena to get that break in the second, but it wasnīt meant to be....

Jem
Jul 26th, 2004, 09:08 PM
Anyone writing Serena off is just plain crazy. I still say, when she plays her best, no one is going to beat her at the moment. Serena simply did not play her best. There's a couple of things at work in my way of thinking.

One -- Serena is not in the best of shape. She looks like the Serena who was struggling before she began winning grand slams. When she was dominating, she never looked tired because she was in superb shape. I don't see that as much now. Tired players make mistakes.

Two -- She's playing tight for whatever reasons. Her game is high risk, and it has to be played with confidence and self-belief. It's not there right now. She's playing scared tennis, as if she's more afraid of losing than willing to win. I personally think she adds more pressure to herself with comments like, "I only played at 20 percent." Not a verbatim, but a general comment.

Three -- I can't help wondering if perhaps her sister's death put competition in a new perspective for her -- made her see tennis and winning more as a game and not as the be-all-end-all. That's probably cheap psychoanalysis. But I see some parallels with this Serena and the post-stabbing Monica. Not as focused and not as consumed with winning.

All that said, Serena is extremely talented. I suspect she will get through this rough patch and win a few more Grand Slams. But she does need to get in better aerobic shape!

bandabou
Jul 26th, 2004, 09:25 PM
Anyone writing Serena off is just plain crazy. I still say, when she plays her best, no one is going to beat her at the moment. Serena simply did not play her best. There's a couple of things at work in my way of thinking.

One -- Serena is not in the best of shape. She looks like the Serena who was struggling before she began winning grand slams. When she was dominating, she never looked tired because she was in superb shape. I don't see that as much now. Tired players make mistakes.

Two -- She's playing tight for whatever reasons. Her game is high risk, and it has to be played with confidence and self-belief. It's not there right now. She's playing scared tennis, as if she's more afraid of losing than willing to win. I personally think she adds more pressure to herself with comments like, "I only played at 20 percent." Not a verbatim, but a general comment.

Three -- I can't help wondering if perhaps her sister's death put competition in a new perspective for her -- made her see tennis and winning more as a game and not as the be-all-end-all. That's probably cheap psychoanalysis. But I see some parallels with this Serena and the post-stabbing Monica. Not as focused and not as consumed with winning.

All that said, Serena is extremely talented. I suspect she will get through this rough patch and win a few more Grand Slams. But she does need to get in better aerobic shape!


Great analysis....you might just be right.

mykarma
Jul 26th, 2004, 09:30 PM
I have the email thingy turned off. Yeah, I miss our conversations over at Yahoo General, but that place has turned into a blood-bath. :eek:

Serena (and Venus) will be fine - and as always, very exciting to watch. However, times change and I don't see them continuing the dominance they once had. Linsday is on a roll, isn't she? :eek:

I believe that Justine will be in the same situation as Vee and Rena when she comes back. I'm gearing myself up for that long, frustrating comeback trail.

:wavey:
I think Justine will have a difficult time also, but women's tennis is becoming really competitive and exciting. Can't wait until all the ladies are healthy.

thelittlestelf
Jul 26th, 2004, 09:40 PM
I really thought that Serena would have come back after she beat Amelie at Wimbledon. Amelie was playing soooo well and Serena was so intense, like she knew the title was hers. Now she's losing sets 6-1 which hasnt happened since the early stages of her career.

With time she will get better, though.

wtaworld
Jul 27th, 2004, 12:55 AM
I think that Elena D would have given us a better final against Davenport then what Serena gave us. Serena's game was lackluster and boring. It looked as though she is not focused on playing to win, just simply playing shots by memory. Elena D would have played Davenport as a fighter desiring to win the title. I really wish Elena had made it to the final as she has beaten Davenport before and knows how to push her. I like to see action packed tennis in the finals, not what I saw on sunday. I didn't watch the entire match...too boring. C'mon Elena D...we need you in the finals for some excitment :)

*JR*
Jul 27th, 2004, 01:11 AM
Serena Goes Down
So does TPlayer men in black! (Keep those greetings coming to his Bossman, Rational Danny, Scottsdale Sewer System Slime. (mulder_xf@webtv.net).

bandabou
Jul 27th, 2004, 01:29 AM
I think that Elena D would have given us a better final against Davenport then what Serena gave us. Serena's game was lackluster and boring. It looked as though she is not focused on playing to win, just simply playing shots by memory. Elena D would have played Davenport as a fighter desiring to win the title. I really wish Elena had made it to the final as she has beaten Davenport before and knows how to push her. I like to see action packed tennis in the finals, not what I saw on sunday. I didn't watch the entire match...too boring. C'mon Elena D...we need you in the finals for some excitment :)

Now, it wouldnīt be THAAAATTT hard to make the final better....I think Elena would have made it tougher for Linds, but tjaa....gotta learn a way to beat serena.

ys
Jul 27th, 2004, 05:09 AM
C'mon Elena D...we need you in the finals for some excitment :)
Yep.. Elena D. has provided us some ... excitement .... in the finals this year..

bandabou
Jul 27th, 2004, 11:42 AM
Yep.. Elena D. has provided us some ... excitement .... in the finals this year..


:haha: :rolls: SOME excitement!!

DevilishAttitude
Dec 15th, 2006, 04:00 PM
BUMP

Possibly the best match of Lindsay's career. At least one of the best. She destroyed Serena that day.

You know, it's very sad she's gone. Lindsay was one of the few top players out there who was actually commited to tennis. If only she'd won Wimbledon 2005... I don't think she ever recovered from that.

But she's done some amazing things, 3 slams. And she proved being a poor mover didn't necessarily mean you couldn't beat top players. Lindsay was probably more talented than the Williams sisters, Sharapova, Clijsters etc.

Goodbye Lindsay :wavey:

:worship:

The Daviator
Dec 15th, 2006, 04:04 PM
One of my favourite Lindsay wins ever :worship:

I can't remember a heavier defeat for Serena? :confused: Certainly not since she started winning Slams...

hurricanejeanne
Dec 15th, 2006, 04:10 PM
:eek: and :worship: at this thread getting a bump.

Goodtimes. Lindsay made 1 error in the first set. I don't think I have ever seen her hit the ball so cleanly, especially against someone like Serena. Lindsay played like god that summer.

Lindsay :worship:
You will be missed but never forgotten. :angel:

tennisfan5
Dec 15th, 2006, 04:10 PM
only the 2004 wimbledon final comes close score-wise, I think

LDF
Dec 15th, 2006, 04:12 PM
only the 2004 wimbledon final comes close score-wise, I think

And her loss to Petrova at Amelia Island earlier that year :tape:

!<blocparty>!
Dec 15th, 2006, 04:14 PM
It wasn't Lindsay's best match ever. Playing that way in a tier II final is a lot easier than at a slam. But still.

I remember waking up the following morning to check how much she'd lost by on the teletext. When the score came up as 3 and 1 to Lindsay I honestly thought there had been a mistake. :tape:

Craigy
Dec 15th, 2006, 04:30 PM
And her loss to Petrova at Amelia Island earlier that year :tape:

She was having knee troubles in that match.
--
Anyway, Serena was so crap in this match, and Lindsay did so well!

LDF
Dec 15th, 2006, 04:37 PM
She was having knee troubles in that match.
--
Anyway, Serena was so crap in this match, and Lindsay did so well!

Oh right :)

Craigy
Dec 15th, 2006, 04:48 PM
Oh right :)

Well I think so :lol: I'm not 100% sure, but well :p

LDF
Dec 15th, 2006, 04:50 PM
Well I think so :lol: I'm not 100% sure, but well :p

Yeh, she needs a good excuse for that loss :p

Andrew..
Dec 15th, 2006, 04:50 PM
She was having knee troubles in that match.
--
Anyway, Serena was so crap in this match, and Lindsay did so well!
When Serena was asked last year about matches where she felt she was simply outplayed, she listed this match specifically.

When Lindsay is making 1 unforced errors per set, it's really, really hard to do much of anything.

Craigy
Dec 15th, 2006, 04:51 PM
Yeh, she needs a good excuse for that loss :p

True :o

Craigy
Dec 15th, 2006, 04:52 PM
When Serena was asked last year about matches where she felt she was simply outplayed, she listed this match specifically.

When Lindsay is making 1 unforced errors per set, it's really, really hard to do much of anything.

Yup, ok I was wrong then :lol: But I just remember reading that she had knee problems somwhere around that time...

serenafan08
Dec 15th, 2006, 04:57 PM
I've never seen Lindsay play so well against Serena. Normally she has a lot of trouble with Serena's game - but in this match she just took control from her first service game. Serena held at love to open the match, then got broken three straight times as Lindsay rattled off six straight games to win the set. Even if Serena wasn't at 100%, it would have been hard to beat Lindsay that day.

The Daviator
Dec 15th, 2006, 05:04 PM
Serena fans, you've got to give us this one, the H2H is 4-11 after all :tape: :help: :lol:

hurricanejeanne
Dec 15th, 2006, 05:09 PM
Serena fans, you've got to give us this one, the H2H is 4-11 after all :tape: :help: :lol:

:lol: I know, that and the fact that Serena got Lindsay at the AO the next year...:( ;)

Andrew..
Dec 15th, 2006, 05:30 PM
I've never seen Lindsay play so well against Serena. Normally she has a lot of trouble with Serena's game - but in this match she just took control from her first service game. Serena held at love to open the match, then got broken three straight times as Lindsay rattled off six straight games to win the set. Even if Serena wasn't at 100%, it would have been hard to beat Lindsay that day.
Serena didn't hold to love to open the match. The game went to deuce.

Stamp Paid
Dec 15th, 2006, 06:57 PM
BUMP

Possibly the best match of Lindsay's career. At least one of the best. She destroyed Serena that day.

You know, it's very sad she's gone. Lindsay was one of the few top players out there who was actually commited to tennis. If only she'd won Wimbledon 2005... I don't think she ever recovered from that.

But she's done some amazing things, 3 slams. And she proved being a poor mover didn't necessarily mean you couldn't beat top players. Lindsay was probably more talented than the Williams sisters, Sharapova, Clijsters etc.

Goodbye Lindsay :wavey:

:worship:

LOL!
I'll let the late, great veteran rest and just say, "OK!"

But yeah, she beat the living daylights out of Serena. Serena was playing tight in finals in 2004 (except when she facd an even tighter Lena in Miami).

Stamp Paid
Dec 15th, 2006, 07:01 PM
Yup, ok I was wrong then :lol: But I just remember reading that she had knee problems somwhere around that time...

She was injured in that Amelia Island loss to petrova. No excuse though, because she finishd the match. But she couldnt really serve or move, her knee was fucked up.

In LA though, Serena was tight and Lindsay was in full slight. Shame, Venus was beating her ass in the semis until the injury. :(

KishG
Dec 15th, 2006, 07:08 PM
Serena never played that well in finals in 2004. I don't know, she just froze and didn't have that mental toughness she had the year before. She did, however, get it back at the Australian Open, but then went onto to do her own thing i.e. went onto party!

Anyway, back on topic, Lindsays strokes on hardcourt were punishing! I'm not really schoked at the scoreline. I am, however, shocked that Serena leads the head-to-head 11-4. I guess most of those matches, Serena won on mental toughhness as she was a mentally tougher player than Lindsay!

At their peaks, Serena was definately a better player than Lindsay, but when Lindsay was on she was ON!!!!!!!!

eugreene2
Dec 15th, 2006, 07:43 PM
Lindsay's best match against Serena was actually the 2000 US Open. Her game plan of centering the ball frustrated Serena greatly!

darrinbaker00
Dec 15th, 2006, 07:46 PM
She was injured in that Amelia Island loss to petrova. No excuse though, because she finishd the match. But she couldnt really serve or move, her knee was fucked up.

In LA though, Serena was tight and Lindsay was in full slight. Shame, Venus was beating her ass in the semis until the injury. :(
You ain't lyin'! When Venus jumped out to that 5-0 lead in the first set, I had to pick my jaw up from off the floor. :eek: I could not believe she was beating Lindsay Davenport like that.

serenafan08
Dec 15th, 2006, 07:55 PM
Serena didn't hold to love to open the match. The game went to deuce.
Oh...well I just remember her holding and then losing her next three service games.

RJWCapriati
Dec 15th, 2006, 08:38 PM
:) :) .......I need to find another great thread to bring up!!

Josh.
Dec 15th, 2006, 08:42 PM
:) :) .......I need to find another great thread to bring up!!

:lol: :hug:

!<blocparty>!
Dec 15th, 2006, 08:42 PM
:) :) .......I need to find another great thread to bring up!!

They closed the Davenport def. Sharapova 6-0 6-0 thread. Twice. :tape::sad:

hurricanejeanne
Dec 15th, 2006, 08:49 PM
They closed the Davenport def. Sharapova 6-0 6-0 thread. Twice. :tape::sad:

I know!:lol: :tape:
I still have that thread in my favorites. :hearts:

RJWCapriati
Dec 15th, 2006, 08:56 PM
I know!:lol: :tape:
I still have that thread in my favorites. :hearts:

:lol: Well damn.....it was one great thread though.....that is my next match I'm going to get on dvd :) :) :)

LefandePatty
Dec 15th, 2006, 09:00 PM
:worship:

hingis-seles
Dec 15th, 2006, 09:21 PM
Venus would have won Stanford had she not made so many unforced errors. And people soon forget that she was up 5-0 yesterday against Lindsay before her injury flared up. If not for that injury, Venus would be holding the trophy today and deep inside Lindsay knows that.

:spit: :haha:

The Daviator
Dec 15th, 2006, 09:26 PM
Just going back to that semi against Venus, she didn't just suddenly collapse at 5-0, Lindsay played really well to get back into that set, saved sp at 5-3, it was only really until 5-5 that Vee started to dertiorate badly...

KishG
Dec 15th, 2006, 09:31 PM
Just going back to that semi against Venus, she didn't just suddenly collapse at 5-0, Lindsay played really well to get back into that set, saved sp at 5-3, it was only really until 5-5 that Vee started to dertiorate badly...

I know Lindsay Davenport has more or less official retired but please dont be in denial about her match against Venus. Venus was kicking her backside until she injured her wrist. It wasn't until then, that Lindsay won her first game. :)

Anyway, it's all in the past now. It's just a shame Lindsay couldn't kick Serena's ass like this in the Australian Open final.

The Daviator
Dec 15th, 2006, 09:36 PM
I know Lindsay Davenport has more or less official retired but please dont be in denial about her match against Venus. Venus was kicking her backside until she injured her wrist. It wasn't until then, that Lindsay won her first game. :)

Anyway, it's all in the past now. It's just a shame Lindsay couldn't kick Serena's ass like this in the Australian Open final.

I saw the match, if you think that the only way Lindsay can win games against Venus is if she is injured, the you're the one in denial :wavey:

Venus was fit enough to make it to set point a few games later :wavey: But Lindsay held her nerve :angel:

Stamp Paid
Dec 15th, 2006, 09:42 PM
Shit I wish Serena would/could play even THIS well at this point.

hurricanejeanne
Dec 15th, 2006, 09:43 PM
Goodtimes. :)

StarDuvallGrant
Dec 16th, 2006, 01:51 AM
Goodbye Lindsay :wavey:



Yes, Goodbye :)

Andrew..
Dec 16th, 2006, 03:27 AM
Just going back to that semi against Venus, she didn't just suddenly collapse at 5-0, Lindsay played really well to get back into that set, saved sp at 5-3, it was only really until 5-5 that Vee started to dertiorate badly...
I think Lindsay hit like four winners to hold for 1-5, and a few more for 2-5. She kinda just went for broke at that point.

Venus' wrist didn't look like it was troubling her until 5-3. Her play went way down from 5-5 on, though.

maddogz48
Dec 16th, 2006, 05:32 AM
Davenport may have crushed Serena in the L.A. final '04 but the horrible defeat Serena handed Davenport in the Australian Open '05 final was waaayyyy more crushing in my opinion. :lol: :lol:

Everyone would prefer a grand slam finals win instead of a Tier 2 finals win, which is why the Davenport loss in Australia '05 was so much more painful. :lol:

Stamp Paid
Dec 16th, 2006, 05:33 AM
Davenport may have crushed Serena in the L.A. final '04 but the horrible defeat Serena handed Davenport in the Australian Open '05 final was waaayyyy more crushing in my opinion. :lol: :lol:

Everyone would prefer a grand slam finals win instead of a Tier 2 finals win, which is way the Davenport loss in Australia '05 was so much more painful. :lol:

Dont be mean. :secret:

geri234
Dec 16th, 2006, 06:49 AM
any videos on youtube?

VeeReeDavJCap81
Dec 16th, 2006, 07:20 AM
It was that damn dress, didn't Serena wear a yellow version of her Wimbledon dress that year? j/k...Serena was beaten with a broomstick that day, hats off to Lindsay.

Davenselesport
Dec 16th, 2006, 11:30 AM
Davenport may have crushed Serena in the L.A. final '04 but the horrible defeat Serena handed Davenport in the Australian Open '05 final was waaayyyy more crushing in my opinion. :lol: :lol:

Everyone would prefer a grand slam finals win instead of a Tier 2 finals win, which is why the Davenport loss in Australia '05 was so much more painful. :lol:

Well I'm happy for "your" win but I think this is more of a tribute thread for Lindsay rather than a comparison of the two players. Dont ruin the mood.

.Andrew.
Dec 16th, 2006, 11:32 AM
Well I'm happy for "your" win but I think this is more of a tribute thread for Lindsay rather than a comparison of the two players. Dont ruin the mood.

:worship:

KishG
Dec 16th, 2006, 03:15 PM
;) I saw the match, if you think that the only way Lindsay can win games against Venus is if she is injured, the you're the one in denial :wavey:

Venus was fit enough to make it to set point a few games later :wavey: But Lindsay held her nerve :angel:

I didn't say that the only way Lindsay could win a game off Venus is if Venus was injured:confused: Venus injured her wrist after winning five games in a row and no matter how much you try to hide the pain the pain is still there and it affects your game considerably. Thats why her level of play dropped dramatically. And of course she could have got to set point with a few errors from Lindsay. Maybe she could have won the set but from the moment Venus hurt her wrist the match was on Lindsays hand. And Lindsay has saved set/match points in minor tournaments before. It is much easier to do so there but the great champions save them in grand slam finals. Now thats "holding your nerve".

!<blocparty>!
Dec 16th, 2006, 03:33 PM
It's hilarious, and pathetic, how 90% of this thread has been taken up by dumb Williams fans arguing pointlessly about their level of play. LMAO @ the recent references to the slam finals Lindsay lost, can you not just STFU for one second.

Dexter
Dec 16th, 2006, 04:52 PM
oh well... Lindsay :wavey:

Lulu.
Dec 16th, 2006, 05:09 PM
Great win for Lindsay. Im glad Serena got her back at the AO :angel: