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View Full Version : Are Elena Dementieva and Jelena Dokic all washed up?


Dawn Marie
Jul 25th, 2004, 06:16 PM
These two are not getting any younger and they were both expected to win some grand slams. So far neither one of them have broke through and took one home. The competition is getting tougher so my question to some of you is this: Is Elena and Jelena all washed up and do you think either one will win a major in their tennis lifetime. Time is ticking away.

I say no, that they will both never win a grandslam in the WTA tour tennis era. :sad: :sad:

Leo_DFP
Jul 25th, 2004, 06:18 PM
Dementieva is #6 in the world and a recent Grand Slam finalist. Dokic hasn't won a single match in months. How can you even compare the two? :eek: :rolleyes:

goldenlox
Jul 25th, 2004, 06:20 PM
The competition doesn't look like it's getting tougher. It's never been easier to win a major.
The names are still there, but they don't play like it's 2002 anymore.

Dawn Marie
Jul 25th, 2004, 06:22 PM
It is easy to compare them, regarding grandslams as neither one has ever won one. They are both getting older. Sure Elena was a slam finalist but not the winner. I know being a finalist is a major achievement but she is still getting older. The youg girls will catch up soon.


I dont see her winning a major in her lifetime.

Dawn Marie
Jul 25th, 2004, 06:26 PM
I think it is alot harder to dominate the slams as to winning one. Many players are getting stronger and are showing competitive spirit. goldenlox if it is so easier then why hasn't Jelena or Elena won in 2002-2004?

goldenlox
Jul 25th, 2004, 06:28 PM
Elena just lost to Myskina in a final. Everyone tells me Myskina just pushed down the middle.
Sharapova almost lost to Sugiyama. She's never made the semis of a Tier I or Tier II.

Dawn Marie
Jul 25th, 2004, 06:31 PM
How can u even compare Sharapova to ELena? Maria just won a GRANDSLAM at the age of 17.

goldenlox
Jul 25th, 2004, 06:33 PM
Maria's never made the semis above a Tier III. Elena won a Tier II. Elena's ranked higher.
If Lindsay holds serve in set 2 at Wimbledon, Elena's career is much better.

Leo_DFP
Jul 25th, 2004, 06:36 PM
Sugiyama has not only reached the semifinals of more than one Tier II event, she's also won more than one Tier II tourney.

Anyway, the competition on the WTA Tour these days is so much stronger now than in the past two years when the Williams and Belgians were practically untouchable at Majors. I think Dementieva is certainly given renewed hope to see two lower-ranked players win surprise Slams this year. And right now she's playing well, so I expect at least a quarterfinal from her at the US Open.

Dementieva proved last night that her ground game is just as good as Serena's. What's holding her back is the serve. But she's still only 22 and has time to work on it, if she really focuses on it with her coach and takes time off from playing to improve that one shot. If she does, she will contend for Majors on a pretty consistent basis. If she doesn't, she still has the ability to win one (probably the French or Aussie which have slower surfaces and don't require good serves), as she showed this year by making it to the Final 2 in Roland Garros without a serve.

As for Dokic, I can't help you there. She's struggling right now and seems unmotivated, unfocused.

Elvira
Jul 25th, 2004, 06:38 PM
I think Venus is pretty washed up. When was the last time she beat a top 10 player?

Declan
Jul 25th, 2004, 06:40 PM
I must admit I have never remotely considered Dokic OR Dementieva as likely Major winners, so I'd question the assertion that both were 'expected to win Grand Slams'. By whom exactly?

goldenlox
Jul 25th, 2004, 06:46 PM
Elena expects to win a grand slam. She knows the players who used to win majors aren't playing well.
Myskina knows that also. These majors are wide open. Whoever plays well in week 2.

DEETHELICK
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:16 PM
Elena D has been improving since 2002 while Dokic has nosedived since then. No comparison at all.

Elena is still beating the big names, pushing the others, has hit No. 6 in the world and was a finalist at the FO.

No offence, but Elena is not washed up. Judging by the way she played Serena, had Elena served a little more effectively and taken the 2nd set, God knows what would have happened.

Elena is preparing as we speak to win a major. Her whole training and practice is dedicated to it. And now finally, she knows she can win one. When that serve begins to click, the tour better watch out IMO. :)
Elena is actually improving her game, don't expect her to fade away just yet. Her groundstrokes and ground game are definitely one of THE best in the world.

mboyle
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:23 PM
Maria's never made the semis above a Tier III. Elena won a Tier II. Elena's ranked higher.
If Lindsay holds serve in set 2 at Wimbledon, Elena's career is much better.
Yeah but Davenport didn't. Why? Because Maria is the game's best returner. Also, Dementieva has been playing since like 1997. Maria since 2002. That means Elena has had 5 extra years to play tier ones and tier twos. Heck Maria wasn't even able to qualify for the big tournaments until late last year. Oh and what is their head to head? Oh right, 2-1 for Sharapova. Maria is a better player by far, and has had a better career thusfar. Maria has more titles, more grand slams, and far more fame, all while being 6 years younger than Dementieva.

mboyle
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:27 PM
Elena expects to win a grand slam. She knows the players who used to win majors aren't playing well.
Myskina knows that also. These majors are wide open. Whoever plays well in week 2.
Yeah, every player expects to win a grand slam. Serena is back already, JHH will be back by next Aussie open, Maria is already a better player who is only getter better, Kim is a better player, Amelie is a better player, J-Cap is a better player, Lindsay is a better player, Venus is a better player, and Myskina can win important matches. That makes 9 players who clearly have a better chance at winning a major than Dementieva. Now I like the girl for her personality, but she doesn't have much a chance at all to win a grand slam event.

mboyle
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:29 PM
Elena just lost
Sharapova almost lost
this is why Sharapova is known across the world already at 17. Oh and btw, Dementieva has twice lost to Ai Sugiyama: 2002 Rome and 2002 Los Angeles. Maria has never lost to Sugiyama.

goldenlox
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:35 PM
Like I said, Sharapova has never reached a semi above a Tier III before Wimbledon. Elena made a French Open final, and she made the Olympic team. And she has silver medal from 2000.

Frank
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:35 PM
mboyle, you are just so right in your last three posts. :yeah: I have nothing to add :D

mboyle
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:36 PM
oh and I just looked up Maria's and Elena's results in tier ones/tier twos. Maria has played 12 thusfar, best result being the quarters. Elena needed 18 events before she got to a semi-final.

DEETHELICK
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:36 PM
Its really funny to see people write Elena off so easily. Its also very similar to when she was being written off when she couldn't win a title. That all changed pretty quick.

Elena has the size, speed and power to make huge dents wherever she goes. She is in the process of improving her serve and building her confidence and consistency with Olga.

If these positive actions work out, why can't she win a Slam? Even the very elite players regard Elena as a dangerous threat. Ask the Belgians or Williams x 2. they never underestimate her.

Frank
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:39 PM
If we're going to compare Masha and Elena here. Shouldn't we compare them at the same age? So, when we compare results: compare the results of Masha now and Elena from when SHE was 17. That would be fair. This is unfair.

mboyle
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:41 PM
Like I said, Sharapova has never reached a semi above a Tier III before Wimbledon. Elena made a French Open final, and she made the Olympic team. And she has silver medal from 2000.okay then, Sharapova made the semi-finals in her 19th higher-than-tier-three appearance. Dementieva did so in her 25th. Sharapova made the quarter-finals in her 11th higher-than-tier-three event. It took Dementieva 14 more tournaments to achieve the same feat.

goldenlox
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:41 PM
Elena made the US Open semi in 2000, the YEC semi, and won an Olympic silver medal.
Maria gets to watch the Olympics on tv.

mboyle
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:45 PM
If we're going to compare Masha and Elena here. Shouldn't we compare them at the same age? So, when we compare results: compare the results of Masha now and Elena from when SHE was 17. That would be fair. This is unfair.
Fair enough. Sharapova won Wimbledon at 17. Dementieva won nothing at 17 (not even an ITF event.) Sharapova is ranked no. 8 at 17, 3 months. Dementieva was ranked 182 at 17, 3 months.

mboyle
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:47 PM
Elena made the US Open semi in 2000, the YEC semi, and won an Olympic silver medal.
Maria gets to watch the Olympics on tv.
that isn't fair because Elena was almost or right at 20 when all that happened. Sharapova is a mere 17, and is ranked higher than other Russians who are going to the Olympics. Besides, winning Wimbledon is better than semi-finaling at the US Open. And Maria might make the semis of the YEC. The year isn't over.

goldenlox
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:47 PM
And Elena won an Olympic medal as a teen. Maria can applaud that, but she can't equal it.

mboyle
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:49 PM
And Elena won an Olympic medal as a teen. Maria can applaud that, but she can't equal it.
Sharapova won a grand slam. Elena can applaud that, but she won't be able to equal that.

Frank
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:51 PM
Elena made the US Open semi in 2000, the YEC semi, and won an Olympic silver medal.
Maria gets to watch the Olympics on tv.

Elena did a great job winning that silver medal. But we all know an Olympic medal in tennis counts much less than winning a grand slam... Respect for Elena though.

mboyle
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:51 PM
And Elena won an Olympic medal as a teen. Maria can applaud that, but she can't equal it.
oh and it isn't Sharapova's fault that the Russian Olympic commitee didn't pick her. Anyways, Dementieva had 2 olympics constested while she was an eligible teen player. Sharapova will have had 1. That definately isn't a fair comparison. Let's change that to: Dementieva medaled at the second Olympics she could have entered. Sharapova hasn't been eligible for two Olympics yet.

goldenlox
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:52 PM
She just made a slam final. Elena will have plenty of chances to win a major before Maria gets a chance to play at the Olympics.

mboyle
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:52 PM
I have a way to end this: At 17, 4 months, Hingis had 4 grand slams, Sharapova had 4 WTA titles, and Dementieva had less than 4 ITF circuit titles.

mboyle
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:53 PM
She just made a slam final. Elena will have plenty of chances to win a major before Maria gets a chance to play at the Olympics.
Sharapova won a slam at 17. Dementieva reached the finals of a slam at 23. BIG difference. Sharapova could win THE grand slam by 23.

wongqks
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:55 PM
Elena and Jelena has done a lot in their career.
Wash up I don't think so, but elena need to get her serve going and Jelena need to really settle down her personal problem and start training real hard again or we will see another talent down the drain

the cat
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:57 PM
Hi Dawn. I don't really think "The Darling One" (Elena Dementieva) belongs in the washed up conversation with Jelena Dokic. Dementieva still has a big upside is she can improve her second serve. I hope Dokic isn't already washed up at age 21 because that would be sad. But it's a fair question on your part, Dawn. But bringing Elena into the topic of being washed up isn't fair. And I think if Dementieva can improve her lightweight second serve and double faulting problem by 25% or more she could still win a grand slam singles title in her career. If Anastasia Myskina and Maria Sharapova can win grand slam singles titles in 2004 I think Elena can certainly win one in her career. But she will need a good draw and an improved service game to do so.

goldenlox
Jul 25th, 2004, 07:59 PM
Elena is working on her serve. She had a shoulder problem, and she has to rework her motion.
Elena's best tennis is still in her future. But her Olympic medal is in the trophy case.
And she made the 2004 Olympic team.

the cat
Jul 25th, 2004, 08:59 PM
GL, both you and I wanted Maria on the Russian Olympic tennis team because she deserved to be there. But I think you are overrating the importnace of winning an Olympic tennis medal. It was a good achievement that Dementieva won the silver medal in Sydney in 2000. But that doesn't compare to winning a grand slam singles title. And you and I both know that if Maria Sharapova was playing in the Olympics she would have a better chance to win the gold medal than Elena does.

Well said Knerf.

Havok
Jul 25th, 2004, 09:47 PM
Dementieva kinda always had these extremely streaky results all the time, great one week, sucking hard for the nex week or two, and then coming back t form. Dementieva isn't washed up. Dokic on the other hand, her personal life is so fucked up that its messing with her tennis on the court. If she doesn't fix her off court problems, then I don't know what's gonna happen with her tennis career :sad: but it can't get any worse than it already is this year. Hope she can get back to her old form, she's too good of a player to be sucking this hard.:tears:

Jakeev
Jul 25th, 2004, 10:02 PM
You know I would swear that when dawn marie sits at her computer, she seriously has a joint lit up and hanging from her lip when she comes up with this stuff......:lol:

Silent George
Jul 26th, 2004, 11:45 AM
Oh please... first of all, comparing players doesn't determine whether a player is washed up. All the player have different potential, some are early bloomers, some are late bloomers, etc.


Having said that, neither of them is washed up. Elena just came from a GS final and has some of the best groundstrokes on the game. If she's able to fix her serve (which she will) she's gonna be a contender in the big events and a solid top 5 player.

Dokic is very talented but you gotta feel for her. When your own father accuses you of doping, well, that kinda creates some distractions and other priorities in her life. But I think she'll be back on top form eventually.

Beat
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:21 PM
It is easy to compare them, regarding grandslams as neither one has ever won one.

if that's all your comparison is based upon, you can also add mauresmo, bovina, clijsters and a trillion others to that list.

tenn_ace
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:25 PM
I say no, that they will both never win a grandslam in the WTA tour tennis era. :sad: :sad:.


:sad: :sad: these 2 at the end of your post is such a lie... don't insult poster's intelligence:rolleyes: please

hollywood7172
Jul 26th, 2004, 01:41 PM
jelena does look like she's on her way of being "washed up", if she continues to have non-results for another year or two. but then again, look at capriati. tennis is unpredictable, and jelena is still young and she still has that basic talent.

as for dementieva, suggesting that she is "washed up" will do you NO GOOD in the reputation-in-WTAWORLD arena. you just sound stupid when you say that. she was in a grandslam final just a few months ago, for goodness' sake ( and dont give me that others played like shit or who and who wasn't there crap). if that is called "washed up" then venus is washed up--she hasnt been in a grandslam final since 2003 july. ( and i CERTAINLY dont think venus is washed up.) and whether dementieva will ever win a grandslam or not has NOTHING (nada, zilch, zero, null) to do with whether she is washed up right now. do you even know what the term washed up means? i seriously doubt it judging by your posts.

bubble
Jul 26th, 2004, 02:38 PM
Why are Jelena and Elena being compared together? on what basis?
Is Elena in a slump now? She got a gs final and was in the semi-final at Stanford last week...
It's unfair to compare Jelena against Elena... Elena is way ahead of her at the moment...

LuckyStrike
Jul 26th, 2004, 04:46 PM
And Elena won an Olympic medal as a teen. Maria can applaud that, but she can't equal it.

Right!!!! Masha playes very well in Wimbledon, but she doesn`t have Elena`s Experience and she needs to prove in the Future that she deserves to stay in the Top 10. Every Player had a bad Year after they raised to the Top. Elena had it, also Nastya,Dokic, Hantuchova etc..... A great Player will overcome a bad Year and will be on Top again!!!!!

Jakeev
Jul 26th, 2004, 09:35 PM
.


:sad: :sad: these 2 at the end of your post is such a lie... don't insult poster's intelligence:rolleyes: please

Hey bitch don't you dare bag on dawn marie like that..........she was not in her right state of mind when she came up with this thread so give her some slack would you..........:lol: :lol: :lol:

BlahBlahson
Jul 26th, 2004, 09:37 PM
These two are not getting any younger and they were both expected to win some grand slams. So far neither one of them have broke through and took one home. The competition is getting tougher so my question to some of you is this: Is Elena and Jelena all washed up and do you think either one will win a major in their tennis lifetime. Time is ticking away.

I say no, that they will both never win a grandslam in the WTA tour tennis era. :sad: :sad:

This is the first post I saw on this board...How stupid

tenn_ace
Jul 27th, 2004, 01:13 PM
Hey bitch don't you dare bag on dawn marie like that..........she was not in her right state of mind when she came up with this thread so give her some slack would you..........:lol: :lol: :lol:

is she ever, sister?

vogus
Jul 27th, 2004, 03:22 PM
lumping Dementieva and Dokic into the same thread when they are having completely opposite careers, screams of something just totally out of whack here. It's a bizarre thread. It should have been about Dokic and Hantuchova, or better yet just Dokic.

kosmikgroove
Jul 27th, 2004, 07:59 PM
Dementieva is NOT washed up. It's a pity that after her semi appearance at the Us Open in 2002 she had an injury... but let's not forget also that Justine's only loss on clay in 2003 came from none other than Dementieva.. pretty impressive stuff. Since then this girl has only improved with her Finals at Rolland Garos.

I agree that once she gets her serve under control, she's defintely top 3 material and a definite threat to win a GS. And her forehand in my opinion, is the most incredible shot on the women's tour. . . well next to JUstine's backhand ;)