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View Full Version : Woo-Hoo! I'm Getting Into Ivy-League! (Granted For the Wrong Reason, Its Wrong!)


CJ07
Jun 17th, 2004, 04:53 AM
Listen to this.




Based on acceptance rates alone, African American students have the best chance of getting into Dartmouth, with legacies right behind them. African Americans were accepted into the Class of 2008 at a rate of 44.6 percent, while legacies had a 35.4 percent acceptance rate. Native Americans and Latinos enjoyed acceptance rates of 34.6 and 29 percent, respectively.

With so much of the applicant pool enjoying these benefits, it leaves others receiving below-average acceptance rates. White Americans, who make up over 60 percent of applicants, had an acceptance rate of 16.2 percent. International students had the hardest time getting into Dartmouth, accepted at a rate of only 10.2 percent.

This girl from my school with a 1140 got into Brown. Not to be mean, but by no stretch of the imagination is she an astounding talent at anything. No substantial hooks at all. However, she is of Cuban descent, and has a sister currently attending there. After reading some of the Brown rejections on this board, I have lost complete faith in the idea that college admissions are based on merit.

According to Michele Hernández, a former assistant director of admissions at Dartmouth and author of the 1997 book, A is for Admission: The Insider’s Guide to Getting into the Ivy League and Other Top Colleges, applications from minority students are literally flagged early on. “At Dartmouth,” she writes, “minority-student status is designated by blue tags for black students, red tags for Hispanic students, and black tags for Native American students.” Admissions officers apply different criteria to these applicants. Hernandez says that officers are willing to trade off test scores for class rank, or vice versa—and will generally “give less weight to test scores and class rank than would be accorded to nonminority applicants”—when weighing a decision about a non-Asian minority candidate. “For white students without tags, modest test scores are not offset by superior class rank.” According to 1992 data, the average SAT score of black students at Dartmouth is 218 points below that of whites
In Short, since I'm an African-American Male with a 1270 (before taking a prep course, which garuntees a 130 pts increase avg.), 3.9, all AP/IB, Crew/Tennis/Rugby/Church Member, who is dirt poor, who is applying early....I'm goin to Dartmouth!

Granted, this really wrong. REALLY wrong. I'm completely against Affirmative-Action. Everyone should have an equal chance. Black kids aren't inherantly smarter or stupider (Even though a recent study showed that 8th grade white kids are on average smarter than 12th grade black kids), they just as a whole don't choose to do the work. Granted some are in bad situations, but I was in a bad situation, and still did better than 87% of the kids in my school. I'm not that special. Yall niglets need to get off yer ass and do your damn homework. :p

But seriously. I think this is wrong. Granted, I'll benefit from it. Huge. I was st ressing about getting into Brown, Penn, Dartmouth, or Cornell, but if I play may cards right, its pick and choose.

peachfuzz
Jun 17th, 2004, 04:57 AM
Sure these people can get in...but can they do the work that is expected from the professors of these schools?

CJ07
Jun 17th, 2004, 04:59 AM
Sure these people can get in...but can they do the work that is expected from the professors of these schools?
well I think people do in college as they do in high school.
If they got 'help' there, they'll get 'help' in college

bw2082
Jun 17th, 2004, 05:01 AM
I'm asian and got wait listed at Yale with a 1470 SAT and all those extra curricular activities, class rank, gpa etc ... :fiery:

I got into Stanford though so I packed my bags and headed west. Better weather and just as good if not better. :)

College admissions should be based on merit only imo.

CJ07
Jun 17th, 2004, 05:18 AM
I'm asian and got wait listed at Yale with a 1470 SAT and all those extra curricular activities, class rank, gpa etc ... :fiery:

I got into Stanford though so I packed my bags and headed west. Better weather and just as good if not better. :)

College admissions should be based on merit only imo.
well for asians its different. Actually they're a majority in some schools in CA. They have a higher education % than whites in most areas.

There seems to be more work ethic in that group.

but still Affirmative Action really is wrong. But at the same time it would be messed up if these schools were too homogenous

- L i n a -
Jun 17th, 2004, 05:30 AM
More reason for me to laugh when blacks say "we have no chances!"... then, I see a story like this... and half the blacks in my school are getting payed to go there.

Anyway, congrats. Don't worry about how you got into whatever school you're going to... just take advantage of the opportunity. :)

bw2082
Jun 17th, 2004, 05:32 AM
Well just do well because if you don't the others will start to think to themselves "How'd he get in here? Must be affirmative action."

ys
Jun 17th, 2004, 05:34 AM
US Universities are way overrated..

CJ07
Jun 17th, 2004, 05:35 AM
More reason for me to laugh when blacks say "we have no chances!"... then, I see a story like this... and half the blacks in my school are getting payed to go there.

Anyway, congrats. Don't worry about how you got into whatever school you're going to... just take advantage of the opportunity. :)
well I probably would have gotten into a good school black or no black
But i'll take it :angel:


Well just do well because if you don't the others will start to think to themselves "How'd he get in here? Must be affirmative action."

thats what everyone is going to say. But to hell with them.

CJ07
Jun 17th, 2004, 05:38 AM
US Universities are way overrated..
other than Oxford/Camridge and the Sorbonne, they're the best in the world :)

Sally Struthers
Jun 17th, 2004, 05:39 AM
Why don't you apply to my school? International Correspondence School.

We offer a variety of programs and you can even get your associates degree in business or acounting!

peachfuzz
Jun 17th, 2004, 05:49 AM
Why don't you apply to my school? International Correspondence School.

We offer a variety of programs and you can even get your associates degree in business or acounting!

I used to hate your commercials, Sally.

Sally Struthers
Jun 17th, 2004, 05:50 AM
I used to hate your commercials, Sally.

so do you like them more now? :o

ys
Jun 17th, 2004, 05:59 AM
other than Oxford/Camridge and the Sorbonne, they're the best in the world :)
I see professionals from those US universities around me. With rare exception they are level below Russian and Ukrainian guys with whom I am working with.

gentenaire
Jun 17th, 2004, 06:29 AM
other than Oxford/Camridge and the Sorbonne, they're the best in the world :)

The Sorbonne is not the best French Uni, all the best French students aim to get accepted in one of the écoles nationales.

decemberlove
Jun 17th, 2004, 06:31 AM
US Universities are way overrated..
college is overrated . what one learns in college, one can also learn by reading on their own

ys
Jun 17th, 2004, 07:02 AM
college is overrated . what one learns in college, one can also learn by reading on their ownI don't know much about US colleges.

In Russian technical universities it seems to be a completely different concept of education. There is very little that one could actually learn over there by graduation time. The major goal is not to make you study some subject thoroughly, but rather to make you understand the concept and learn how to think within that concept. Most of what we've been doing were thinking exercises. By graduation time I would not even be able to name the subjects that we've learned in, say, first three years in universities. It was totally irrelevant. It was basically a school of quick logical thinking.

Volcana
Jun 17th, 2004, 07:05 AM
I'm VERY pro-affirmative action.

The Federal government should act in ways that benefits the society as a whole. We didn't get affirmative action in a vacuum. It's here because, after 'the Second Civil War', in the sixties, the Feds made the determination that assisting Blacks to overcome the white privilege built into American society was better that thousands of people dying in the streets and hundreds of millions in property damage.

The problem the Federal government faced was this. In the United States, the Feds have direct control over relatively little. The education system was the appropriate vehicle to address white racism in the United States, but not at the college level. Grades K through 12 is far better. But localities control grades K through 12. Most grade school funding is done through local property taxes in the USA. The avenue used to address inequities in educational opportunity at the K through 12 level was bussing. However, that was gutted in a very few years, when the Supreme Court ruled that suburban districts could refuse to accept urban kids, and vice Versa. Whites immediately fled to the suburbs, in such heavy numbers that 'white flight' became common short hand among city planners. This resulted in even more segregated urban schools, the situation we have today.

So the vehicle left to the Federal government to try to avoid a repeat of the sixties, call it 'the second civil war', 'the Rebellions', 'the riots' or the AMerican Intafada', is affirmative action at the college and corporate level. Where it is least effective.

Give all American kids a basically equal education K through 12, and I'd say ban affrimative action completely. But in New York City, there are classrooms of 50 kids, being taught in basement storerooms, taught by teachers who were declared 'certified' after a three week training course. Those students are 90% Black and Latino. An hour away, there's a 90% white suburban school with 25 students to a class, a teacher who was only declared certified after two YEARS of training, in a classroom with windows and an actual desk for every student.

Affirmative action in college admissions is a poor atempt to make up for the vast inequities in K throug 12 education in the United States. A VERY poor attempt.

But before you throw it how, tell me a better way to address those inequities.

Or maybe you'd like to go through the cities burning all over again.

Volcana
Jun 17th, 2004, 07:15 AM
Everyone should have an equal chance.But in America, they don't. And the reason why correlates heavily with race.

Black kids aren't inherantly smarter or stupider ...they just as a whole don't choose to do the work.Black kids aren't inherantly smarter or stupider, they just as a whole don't have the same educational opportunitites at the K thourgh 12 level.

Because K through !@ schooling is based on property taxes.

Because of past and present discrimination, blacks own a lot less property per capita than whites. (For a lot of the histoiry of the USA, Blacks weren't even ALLOWD to own property in certain places. And baanks wouldn't give Balcks mortgages to buy property, aor loans to oopen businesses.

Communities in the United States are still largely segregated, meaning that white property owners fund schools for white kids, and Black s property owners fund schools for Blacks kids.

And racial discrimaintion has ensured that there are far fewer Black property owners per capita, and so a lot less money for schools.

Even though a recent study showed that 8th grade white kids are on average smarter than 12th grade black kids.Since this read like you ARE saying Blacks kids are inherently stupider, please provide a link to the study. Thanks.

vs1
Jun 17th, 2004, 08:02 AM
Congrats on whichever college you attend. I think that the most important thing is that you attend the school that is right for you. And once you get there, you ought to make the best use of it...not just academically, but with the extracurricular activities and social setting. You can get into the most prestigious uni, yet feel out of place. You can go to the least prestigious uni, and thrive and come out ready for the world. I began at Columbia (Ivy League), didn't like it and transferred to Georgetown (not an Ivy League) and then to a German university. I didn't regret the choices that I made, although if I were to make them over again, I probably would have chosen differently. So make the best choice for yourself (regardless of reputation and societal pressure) and go and have a DAMN GOOD TIME!!! ;)

Experimentee
Jun 17th, 2004, 08:11 AM
I think it'll work out for the best, because with the opportunities that poeple in some communities get vs the opportunities others get, if you put a black person in college who scored slightly lower than a person of another race, both people would be just as successful. The latter only scored lower because of lack of opportunities in the schools of that community. Its a commonly known fact that not all schools are equal and people of the same ability will get higher scores if they go to a better school.

Ballbuster
Jun 19th, 2004, 06:39 PM
Congratulations!!!

Yet, you sound like an ingrate. You'll find out soon what the real world is like. Let's talk about it in 10 years

CJ07
Jun 20th, 2004, 05:09 AM
But in America, they don't. And the reason why correlates heavily with race.

Black kids aren't inherantly smarter or stupider, they just as a whole don't have the same educational opportunitites at the K thourgh 12 level.

Because K through !@ schooling is based on property taxes.

Because of past and present discrimination, blacks own a lot less property per capita than whites. (For a lot of the histoiry of the USA, Blacks weren't even ALLOWD to own property in certain places. And baanks wouldn't give Balcks mortgages to buy property, aor loans to oopen businesses.

Communities in the United States are still largely segregated, meaning that white property owners fund schools for white kids, and Black s property owners fund schools for Blacks kids.

And racial discrimaintion has ensured that there are far fewer Black property owners per capita, and so a lot less money for schools.

Since this read like you ARE saying Blacks kids are inherently stupider, please provide a link to the study. Thanks.
I think we have different perspectives.

I am part basically that token black guy in that rich white suburban neighborhood. So I don't really see all that underprivledgeness.

Obviously, people are a product of their environment.
A lot of black people have bad environments.

How will it change? People have to WANT to change. Plain and simple.
Look at Asian people. They were in fricken containment camps for heaven sakes. And they're the most educated race in the entire nation. They make more money than anyone else. Because they have that work ethic.

Blacks just dont. They just talk about the 'White man" putting them down.
I really don't buy that. the resources are out there for everyone. You just have to have the desire to find them.

As for that study, it was in the USA Today.