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View Full Version : After the debates, who're you votin' for Canada?


alexusjonesfan
Jun 16th, 2004, 02:48 AM
By this time, the large majority of voters are expected to have made up their minds, so who's it going to be?

PointBlank
Jun 16th, 2004, 02:49 AM
N D P :)

alexusjonesfan
Jun 16th, 2004, 02:52 AM
N D P :)
It'd be nice if you were Canadian and of voting age :p

PointBlank
Jun 16th, 2004, 02:53 AM
It'd be nice if you were Canadian and of voting age :p
:lol: Stevens MSN name is Vote New Democratic Party so what the hell :p

PointBlank
Jun 16th, 2004, 02:56 AM
since St.Raphaël is in Québec I should be for Bloc Québécois but ya know :p

and whos gonna vote for the Commys anyways :p

alexusjonesfan
Jun 16th, 2004, 03:01 AM
I'm not a fan of the conservatives either but I gotta credit them with running the slickest campaign so far. The NDP platform reads like a peppy boyscout manual and the libs can't keep from tripping over their own feet.

From today's debate: Jack Layton reeeeaaally seems to believe he's got a shot at forming government, and what was with Duceppe saying he wouldn't form a coalition with the Conservatives or Liberals? Did Paul Martin pay him off or something ;)

PointBlank
Jun 16th, 2004, 03:03 AM
What party is the Prime Minister part of now?

I think thats what yall are voting for

alexusjonesfan
Jun 16th, 2004, 03:09 AM
We need a more serious poll:

Should Jack Layton shave his moustache or not? :scratch:
Oh how I miss Stockwell Day :lol:

Mariangelina
Jun 16th, 2004, 10:28 AM
I can't vote, being underage, but I'd vote NDP if I wasn't worried (read: terrified) about the Conservatives getting in, but realistically Liberal, because I am terrified.

alexusjonesfan
Jun 17th, 2004, 06:06 AM
vote :p

Scotso
Jun 17th, 2004, 07:33 AM
I don't know much about these parties, can a Canadian educate me?

(vote green!)

Crazy Canuck
Jun 17th, 2004, 11:47 AM
I'm a poor student bum, so voting for the Conservatives would be on par with committing financial suicide. They have nothing to offer me. I imagine I'll vote liberal like I usually do. Maybe NDP if it's looking like it might be a close race in this riding.

*JR*
Jun 17th, 2004, 11:58 AM
We need a more serious poll:

Should Jack Layton shave his moustache or not? :scratch:
Should Stockwell Day be listed as Doris or not? :p

Barrie_Dude
Jun 17th, 2004, 06:22 PM
Well, I would have voted for the Liberals, but between Jean Chrietens BS and Dalton McGuinty's lies, I am completly turned off and angry!

The NDP was a viable choice prior to the arrival of Jack Layton, however, I recall him as a city councilor in Toronto and as far as I am concerned, he is just a pretty boy out for himself. There is no substance there at all.

The party Quebecois is really not a national party as they have no candidates outside of Quebec. I seriouslt would not vote for them as I can recall the seperatist bullcrap that pissed off the rest of Canada. In fact, they did more damage for Quebecs image than good. But these are politicians only and I find that the average person from Quebec is much more mainstream than that, in fact, most of the French Canadians I know are among the nicest people I know.

That leaves the consrvatives, and though I am no fan of Steven Harper, he is the least of the evils here.

Bacardi
Jun 17th, 2004, 06:52 PM
I would have thought all of Canada would have nominated and voted for Jarome Iginla :haha:

Randy H
Jun 17th, 2004, 06:55 PM
I would like to vote NDP, but as is the usual case, they basically have no hope of even coming close to winning in my riding so I will probably end up voting Liberal because there is no way in hell I will ever vote Conservative :)

alias
Jun 17th, 2004, 07:54 PM
Liberal.

The Conservatives scare me.

alexusjonesfan
Jun 21st, 2004, 06:21 AM
Well apparently Paul Martin supports kiddie-porn...and drowns kittens in his spare time :(

As for me, I'm an immigrant, student, living in smoggy Toronto so I guess my vote is obvious...not that it matters anyway, this riding is Grit-locked ;)

Scotso
Jun 22nd, 2004, 09:32 PM
so can someone tell me what the different parties are? where they stand?

azza
Jun 22nd, 2004, 10:28 PM
Bloc Québécois :banana:

alexusjonesfan
Jun 22nd, 2004, 11:25 PM
so can someone tell me what the different parties are? where they stand?I'll try ;)

The two main parties with the potential to form government are the Liberal and Conservative parties. The Liberal party is centre-left. They've been in power since 1993, but now for the first time since then, are behind the Conservatives in the polls. They're socially liberal and economically conservative. Gay marriage was legalised under their watch as were corporate tax cuts and the budget balanced by slashing certain programs. They're running on the issue of keeping the national health-care system. This was their election to lose until a few months ago when the party was rocked with financial scandals and its Ontario wing released a dumbass budget breaking promises they'd made to get elected.

The Conservative party is newly 'reformed' and is staunchly right-wing now, though it tries to look as moderate as possible. They're running on the promise of making huge tax cuts and being accountable instead of arrogant like the Liberals. They'll privatise a lot of national industries, cut a lot of services and dramatically ratchet up the defense budget. They don't believe in global warming so we'd be taken out of Kyoto and they believe in preserving the traditional definition of marriage. They think issues such as abortion controls and same-sex rights should be determined by free votes in parliament rather than supreme-court decisions and that healther political ties with the US should be pursued. They have strong support in prairie Canada and are making major inroads in Ontario.

The National Democratic Party is the third largest national party and is a more lefty version of the Liberals. Their platform includes increasing taxes on corporations and making certain necessities tax-free for young families. They have a lot of support in Toronto because of their pledge to increase funding to metropolis regions for public transit and into housing and support services for low-income families. They are much more committed to the environment than the two parties mentioned above and would bring in stricter regulations on industry as well as invest in alternative sources of energy. This, right here is the lefty student party. Unfortunately for them, the most they can hope for is to hold the balance of power in parliament and/or become king-makers for the Liberals.

The Bloc Québécois is the separatist/sovereignist party which only has candidates in Quebec. They've benefitted from the Liberals' sponsorship scandal in Quebec and are doing great in polls there. They want tougher environmental regulations and more freedoms for Quebec. Uhh...I don't really know anything else about them, maybe a poster from Quebec could help :o

The Green Party is the largest of the small parties (i.e. no seats in parliament). The smaller parties are highlighted here (http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/leadersparties/parties/other.html)

The Conservatives have been increasing their lead over the past few days and unfortunately their policies don't work for me at all. A tax system that benefits the rich and the corporate (nope, I'm none of those), social service cuts and 'reforms' which benefit high income nuclear families specifically (not one of those either), no promises whatsoever for cheaper housing, lowering tuition rates etc. (but more money for tanks...hoorah!), no comittment to arts and culture funding (likely to be cut even more), no Kyoto (more smog for me yay), no special treatment of large cities, privatization reform of health care and an 'end to state supported multiculturalism'...oh and don't forget, I'll now have to rely on Harper's right wing cronies to protect my rights since the charter of rights and freedoms is abandoned with notwithstanding clauses. That's about all the whinging I have for now ;)

Scotso
Jun 22nd, 2004, 11:29 PM
Ugh, so basically the Conservatives are like Bush? :rolleyes:

Thank you so much for your very detailed response, I appreciate it! :)

I suppose I would be voting for the NDP ;)

Crazy Canuck
Jun 23rd, 2004, 12:26 AM
I would have thought all of Canada would have nominated and voted for Jarome Iginla :haha:
Gee, thanks for adding that nugget of wisdom. I hope that putting that together didn't exhaust your cognitive resources for the day.

Crazy Canuck
Jun 23rd, 2004, 12:27 AM
Ugh, so basically the Conservatives are like Bush? :rolleyes:

Thank you so much for your very detailed response, I appreciate it! :)

I suppose I would be voting for the NDP ;)
Indeed. In my opinion, voting conservative here is voting to put Canada back in time about 5 decades. But, as I pointed out, they have nothing to offer me, so of course I don't have anything positive to say about them :)

Crazy Canuck
Jun 23rd, 2004, 12:29 AM
Well, I would have voted for the Liberals, but between Jean Chrietens BS and Dalton McGuinty's lies, I am completly turned off and angry!

The NDP was a viable choice prior to the arrival of Jack Layton, however, I recall him as a city councilor in Toronto and as far as I am concerned, he is just a pretty boy out for himself. There is no substance there at all.

The party Quebecois is really not a national party as they have no candidates outside of Quebec. I seriouslt would not vote for them as I can recall the seperatist bullcrap that pissed off the rest of Canada. In fact, they did more damage for Quebecs image than good. But these are politicians only and I find that the average person from Quebec is much more mainstream than that, in fact, most of the French Canadians I know are among the nicest people I know.

That leaves the consrvatives, and though I am no fan of Steven Harper, he is the least of the evils here.
Mike Harris and his government, a conservative (PC, actually, who have now joined with the former Alliance, as you know) government, totally shit all over our education and and health care system in Ontario. Where is your outrage over that? I guess education and healthcare don't really matter. Just get mad at Dalton because he decided to tax you when he said he wouldn't. That is clearly far more serious than the future of the children in this province, and the future of our healthcare system.

Crazy Canuck
Jun 23rd, 2004, 12:30 AM
Ugh, so basically the Conservatives are like Bush? :rolleyes:

Thank you so much for your very detailed response, I appreciate it! :)

I suppose I would be voting for the NDP ;)
That's sort of like voting for Nader ;)

Crazy Canuck
Jun 23rd, 2004, 12:32 AM
I don't understand why anybody who isn't rich would vote conservative in the coming election. Frankly, I find the entire notion a little retarded. If you aren't rich, they arent for you, and don't give a flying crap about you. If you're rich, then Hell, go nuts. I'd vote for them too!

alexusjonesfan
Jun 23rd, 2004, 12:38 AM
I don't understand why anybody who isn't rich would vote conservative in the coming election. Frankly, I find the entire notion a little retarded. If you aren't rich, they arent for you, and don't give a flying crap about you. If you're rich, then Hell, go nuts. I'd vote for them too!Many people I know are voting that way to 'teach the liberals a lesson'. Yes, let's give up rights to put an inanimate entity in its place.

Scotso
Jun 23rd, 2004, 01:22 AM
Good then, Becs, because Nader is who I'll be voting for :D

Viggen, doesn't it make more since to vote for the NDP to teach the Liberals a lesson? That way they can at least form a coalition :rolleyes:

¤CharlDa¤
Jun 23rd, 2004, 01:37 AM
Kill the Tories! I think anybody voting Conservatory are completely blind....Do we want to become a mini-USA?

Yes Liberals had their bad times, but i hope canadians aren't stupid enough to try to give them a lesson by voting Tories :rolleyes:

If i could vote, i would vote BQ only because i know the guy pretty well.....He is cool....

NPD are cool. I like the way the base of the way they think. But i think it is good saving the trees, but you also need to do something else than smoke pot and be back in the 70s lol

Fingon
Jun 23rd, 2004, 02:41 AM
Well, I would have voted for the Liberals, but between Jean Chrietens BS and Dalton McGuinty's lies, I am completly turned off and angry!

exactly my feelings

The NDP was a viable choice prior to the arrival of Jack Layton, however, I recall him as a city councilor in Toronto and as far as I am concerned, he is just a pretty boy out for himself. There is no substance there at all.

don't agree here, I am sick of paying taxes that go to benefit someone, they want more taxes and more expenses that won't benefit me in the slightest, so no way I vote the NDP>

The party Quebecois is really not a national party as they have no candidates outside of Quebec. I seriouslt would not vote for them as I can recall the seperatist bullcrap that pissed off the rest of Canada. In fact, they did more damage for Quebecs image than good. But these are politicians only and I find that the average person from Quebec is much more mainstream than that, in fact, most of the French Canadians I know are among the nicest people I know.
well, the I am like you in Ontario so it's not an option, but if it was I could cut off my right hand before voting them.

It's not only the separatism, it's the stupid regulation they have. They have their priorities totally screwed up in my opinion.

That leaves the consrvatives, and though I am no fan of Steven Harper, he is the least of the evils here.
there you go

Fingon
Jun 23rd, 2004, 02:48 AM
Kill the Tories! I think anybody voting Conservatory are completely blind....Do we want to become a mini-USA?

Yes Liberals had their bad times, but i hope canadians aren't stupid enough to try to give them a lesson by voting Tories :rolleyes:

If i could vote, i would vote BQ only because i know the guy pretty well.....He is cool....

NPD are cool. I like the way the base of the way they think. But i think it is good saving the trees, but you also need to do something else than smoke pot and be back in the 70s lol
well, I am sick of the high taxes, to a point that if I get a good job offer in the US I will accept it without hesitation.

I will never ever vote a party that has an idiot like McGuinty with them. I know federal liberals are not provincial liberals, but Paul Martin supported that budget. Mc Guinty has broken each and every one of his promises, so why would to believe the federals won't do the same?

same music, a few month ago Martin said there was no money, all the sudden, he will invest 30 billion dollars in healthcare without raising taxes, it sound pretty darn close to what that idiot of Mc Guinty said in his campaign.

And now he is saying that when ontarians understand his lame budget they will support him in 4 years. I can promise you that in four years I will vote whoever has a chance to whipe his ass off the office, no matter what he does from now on, the only way I could change my mind is if they scrap the health premium all together, if I have to pay that shit, then I will never ever vote the liberals again, unless they return the money with interests.

The NDP? well, I want a government that governs, not dreams, and I don't want even higuer taxes.

polishprodigy
Jun 23rd, 2004, 03:03 AM
I am voting conservative. Why? Because I don't like the liberals, they have had an 11 year dictatorship full of corruption, scandal, arrogance, broken promises and poor leadership. I must remind the poster that the Liberals are not centre left but a tad centre right under Martin. Anywho, I don't like Harper at all, but I phoned my Conservative candidate in my riding and i was impressed with his answers. The NDP is a party that I considered voting for but 1) I don't see them getting power 2) I feel that they would lead to the erosion of the middle class 3) I feel that many of their policies are a bit extreme and some would lead to financial problems/deficit.
Personally, I cannot understand why someone could find a reason to vote Liberal! After all these years, you would think someone would vote for the NDP, Green or conservatives instead!

I will be voting conservative, but really, I would be happy with ANY government that is not liberal or at least not a liberal majority.

And the conservatives would not outlaw abortion or legalize the death penalty! That is liberal propoganda. I would have to agree though that I do forsee same sex marriage under a conservative government returning to the "traditional definition of marriage".

alexusjonesfan
Jun 23rd, 2004, 04:30 AM
finally some action in this thread

I am voting conservative. Why? Because I don't like the liberals, they have had an 11 year dictatorship full of corruption, scandal, arrogance, broken promises and poor leadership.
Dictatorship? Canadians voted them in for three terms in a row? Corruption, arrogance and scandal go hand in hand with democratic politics. I'm surprised people think a conservative government would somehow avoid all these things.


I must remind the poster that the Liberals are not centre left but a tad centre right under Martin.

Ok


Anywho, I don't like Harper at all, but I phoned my Conservative candidate in my riding and i was impressed with his answers. The NDP is a party that I considered voting for but 1) I don't see them getting power 2) I feel that they would lead to the erosion of the middle class 3) I feel that many of their policies are a bit extreme and some would lead to financial problems/deficit.
Actually, all three parties have gaping holes in their platform budgets. They're all relying on imaginary revenue either from sales of crown corporations and/or through additional taxes. The thing is, the conservatives have the most money unaccounted for. To 'create accountability' they'll spend more money creating committees, management and generally expand the bureaucracy in an attempt to 'streamline systems'.


Personally, I cannot understand why someone could find a reason to vote Liberal! After all these years, you would think someone would vote for the NDP, Green or conservatives instead!

I will be voting conservative, but really, I would be happy with ANY government that is not liberal or at least not a liberal majority.
This I don't understand. The last 3 liberal terms were much better than the two conservative ones before that. Remember the 56 billion dollar a year deficit gifted to us by Mulroney? People seem to want change for the hell of it...like 'let's give the tories a shot at it'...I wouldn't care about that if they were just like the old PC party in sharing the centre with moderate views and choosing one over the other wouldn't make a real difference. That's changed now...both the biggest parties will take Canada in significantly different directions.


And the conservatives would not outlaw abortion or legalize the death penalty! That is liberal propoganda. I would have to agree though that I do forsee same sex marriage under a conservative government returning to the "traditional definition of marriage".
Nobody's saying that they'd outlaw abortion or legalize the death penalty. The problem aren't the issues they're bringing up, it's how they suggest to deal with them. They plan on hiding behind free votes in parliament for minority rights issues, using the notwithstanding clause to bypass the charter of rights and freedoms. With an electoral majority, they can do whatever they want. Hey let's make it mandatory for Canadian citizens born in muslim nations to have their picture and fingerprints taken everytime they move between provinces...but wouldn't that be unconstitutional?...not really, we can just vote it through and nobody will be able to do anything.

I personally like the idea of two level healthcare, what I don't like the idea of is slashing health care budgets a la Mike Harris to balance bankbooks while increasing waiting times and then whining about how the federal liberals screwed us with increased waiting times.

The annoying thing is, the conservatives don't talk at all about a lot of things. Their platform has nothing about dealing with cities and homelessness, nothing about budgeting for culture and is spends about a page and a half of its 44 page platform on healthcare with nothing more than vague statements like 'we'll do better than the liberals'. Half a page of that talks about making drug approval in Canada faster to match up with the US when longer drug approval times actually help in many cases to ensure all the side-effects of drugs are known about. For all the change they promise, theirs is the least verbose platform on the details of their plan. Add to that, weird things that party members sometimes spill like making abortion counselling mandatory or that bilingualism should be abolished and people don't really know what to expect. They've run the whole campaign as 'the other guy'. Kinda like how some Bloc candidates skirt the issue of what they'd do for sovereignty once elected in order to just be 'the other choice'.

Here are links to the thre major party platforms:
Liberal (http://www.liberal.ca/pdf/Policyeng1.pdf)
Conservative (http://www.conservative.ca/platform/e.pdf)
NDP/NPD (http://www.ndp.ca/uploaded/20040527091443_Fed.NDP.Platform.eng.sm.pdf)

Captain.Canada
Jun 24th, 2004, 03:12 AM
Our voting system is TERRIBLE.
For example, in a riding where Conservatives get 100 000 votes, Liberal 80 000 and NDP 90 000 votes, the Liberal and NDP votes are worth nothing. The conservatives would get the seat in the House even though 170 000 people clearly do not want the Conservatives in power as opposed to 100 000 who do. This to me is a serious problem.
Also, we don't even directly vote for our Prime Minister who as head of a nation has the powers equal to a dictator.
Our voting system needs major changes.
The only party who I've heard make promises about voting system changes is the NDP so that's who I'm voting for. Also, I like that they aren't big suck ups to the USA, how they want to protect the environment and their socially liberal policies.

Captain.Canada
Jun 24th, 2004, 03:17 AM
Under the Conservatives and Liberals, it seems like big corporations have a huge say in how Canada is run. To me, it should be the people in control of a country. Many big corporations don't care about the people, all they want is to make the most profit possible at the expense of the lower classes. To me that's wrong. I feel that the NDP will try to make the big corporations make more compromises for the benefit of the people.

treiber04
Jun 24th, 2004, 03:19 AM
I can't vote but I watched it. Layton is like a Used Car Salesman, Harper sickens me with wanting to change the hate-laws against gay's and lesbian's in Canada, and Martin and the Liberals continue to impress. Either way even if Martin sucked Layton is too much of a hypocrit to get my families vote.

adss
Jun 24th, 2004, 03:23 AM
in my riding i'd like the conservatives to win, but if harper becomes our new PM i'm moving

Crazy Canuck
Jun 24th, 2004, 05:09 AM
So I've read some slams on the liberals, almost none of which I disagree. They have lied, blah blah and blah. Welcome to politics. They absolutely have done that, and will continue so.

But could a conservative voter who thinks that us liberal voters are big tards, please explain to me, a bum student, what on earth the conservative party has to offer me? Aside from a whole shit load of nothing.

Thanks.

Crazy Canuck
Jun 24th, 2004, 05:11 AM
I do think it's concerning that people care more about their taxes than the future of health care and education in this country... but, that's cause I'm still a 20 something student I suppose :)

Crazy Canuck
Jun 24th, 2004, 05:12 AM
For whoever it was that wondered why liberal voters haven't started giving more votes to the NDP already... here is my reasoning: splitting the liberal votes means a conservative government. A conservative government has absolutely NOTHING to offer me. That's why I vote liberal, and will likely do so this election. Even if my heart says NDP

alexusjonesfan
Jun 24th, 2004, 05:55 AM
Our voting system is TERRIBLE.
For example, in a riding where Conservatives get 100 000 votes, Liberal 80 000 and NDP 90 000 votes, the Liberal and NDP votes are worth nothing. The conservatives would get the seat in the House even though 170 000 people clearly do not want the Conservatives in power as opposed to 100 000 who do. This to me is a serious problem.
Also, we don't even directly vote for our Prime Minister who as head of a nation has the powers equal to a dictator.
Our voting system needs major changes.
The only party who I've heard make promises about voting system changes is the NDP so that's who I'm voting for. Also, I like that they aren't big suck ups to the USA, how they want to protect the environment and their socially liberal policies.
The proportional representation system the NDP have proposed is another can of worms itself. While the NDP and smaller parties like the Greens will get more seats, minority governments will become much more common bringing with them new pros and cons. It's also a system that requires more voter knowledge and activity because of its complexity.

As for our PM, he/she has less individual control over matters than say the US President. Technically, he/she isn't even the head of state. The system does have flaws but I do like the fact that mostly you end up voting for the party rather than just for its leader.

Playmate
Jun 24th, 2004, 05:06 PM
Vote me! Vote me!

Captain.Canada
Jun 24th, 2004, 11:45 PM
As for our PM, he/she has less individual control over matters than say the US President. Technically, he/she isn't even the head of state.

Whether or not our PM has more or less control than the U.S. President is irrelevant. What's relevant is that he/she has too much control for someone that isn't even voted in by the people. They don't even have to win their riding. The PM and the Cabinet with a majority government can pretty much do whatever they want because of strict party discipline and the serious consequences that can occur when a MP doesn't follow his/her party. The PM hires and fires the Cabinet members so there you have it, the PM has a lot of power with a majority government. And how long have the Liberals had a majority government?

Crazy Canuck
Jun 25th, 2004, 12:52 AM
Wow, I must say I'm surprised to see so many names voting conservatives.



I've visited their website and it's totally empty of content. :confused: Which worries me because it seems they do everything to hide or keep secret their agenda.

I don't see the reasonning of voting for the conservatives just because people are sick of the Liberals. Why do people assume it's gonna be better with them anyway?
Indeed. I think that "the liberals lied! I can't ever vote them again!" is an hilarious line of reasoning. Now, if you simply don't like the platform of the liberal party and feel that what the Coservatives are offering is more important (what on earth are they offering, aside from "demand better! vote change!?;) ), then sure, that makes perfect sense. SOme people in this thread have expressed that. I said myself that if I felt they had anything to offer me that I could vote conservative (although I have serious issues with one of their bigotted platforms).

As I said... voting for a party that doesn't give a twat about you... is stupid. Just my opinion, of course, and I really don't think that line applies to most of the people in here who claimed they would vote conservative anyways.

GBFH
Jun 25th, 2004, 12:56 AM
rebecca!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! where have you been?????????

Crazy Canuck
Jun 25th, 2004, 12:59 AM
rebecca!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! where have you been?????????
You know where to find me silly ;) Congrats on graduation, btw :kiss:

*JR*
Jun 25th, 2004, 01:00 AM
If Martin loses, it'll be like when John Turner did to Brian Mulroney in '84 after being given the helm as the iceberg approached by Trudeau. Or like when Kim Campbell did to Chretien after Brian did her the same "favour" in '93. BTW (no lookups) NE of you Canucks know what job Kim held for part of his tenure?

Crazy Canuck
Jun 25th, 2004, 01:03 AM
Don't know and don't care. I must have been 10 when she was removed from office ;)

GBFH
Jun 25th, 2004, 01:03 AM
You know where to find me silly ;) Congrats on graduation, btw :kiss:
i know...but i've still missed you! :)

thanks. i can support us, now :lol:

Crazy Canuck
Jun 25th, 2004, 01:18 AM
i know...but i've still missed you! :)

thanks. i can support us, now :lol:
Yay! You can put me through either grad school for psych or law school. Whatever I decide to do! It's great to have a sugar... mamma?

*JR*
Jun 25th, 2004, 01:34 AM
Don't know and don't care. I must have been 10 when she was removed from office ;)
Kanadian Kim was hot then. :drool: I'll bet anything Clinton was hitting on her @ the '93 G7 summit! :p (BTW, she became your Consul General in LA). ;)

Fingon
Jun 25th, 2004, 02:35 AM
I do think it's concerning that people care more about their taxes than the future of health care and education in this country... but, that's cause I'm still a 20 something student I suppose :)
well, I do pay the taxes so that affects me a big deal.

Martin has tried to make this election only about healthcare. I don't like the NDP but Jack Layton had the best remark. He said the election is not only about healthcare like Martin pretends and he said votes should ask themselves a question, can I trust this guy?

the answer is no. Maybe the conservatives won't "promise" to invest as much money in healthcare but will the liberals? at least the conservatives has the benefit of the doubt, the liberals have demonstrated they lie.

A few months ago Martin said there was no money, now he has 30 billion dollars? how come? did he forget to check his left pocket?

And for those who use the Harris government to show how Harper will be, I can tell you that then you should use the McGuinty government to see how the liberals will be, and then... end of story.

alexusjonesfan
Jun 25th, 2004, 04:28 AM
If Martin loses, it'll be like when John Turner did to Brian Mulroney in '84 after being given the helm as the iceberg approached by Trudeau. Or like when Kim Campbell did to Chretien after Brian did her the same "favour" in '93. BTW (no lookups) NE of you Canucks know what job Kim held for part of his tenure?
Nothing could be as bad as the Kim Cambell debacle, the Libs will atleast get seats in the double figures ;)

alexusjonesfan
Jun 25th, 2004, 05:05 AM
well, I do pay the taxes so that affects me a big deal.

Martin has tried to make this election only about healthcare. I don't like the NDP but Jack Layton had the best remark. He said the election is not only about healthcare like Martin pretends and he said votes should ask themselves a question, can I trust this guy?

Again, I don't get this moral highground stuff. Each party pretends the election is about their own main issue. Layton thinks the main issue is keeping everything nationalised, coincidentally which corresponds to his platform :eek:


the answer is no. Maybe the conservatives won't "promise" to invest as much money in healthcare but will the liberals? at least the conservatives has the benefit of the doubt, the liberals have demonstrated they lie.

At least the Liberals have a track record of balanced budgets as well as increasing health-care transfers every year since 1993. The Conservatives have run the campaign with vague taglines like 'demand better' alone. They've learned from the Stockwell Day fiasco that saying nothing is better than saying too much, especially when the Liberals are already self-destructing for you. All we have to go on is their history, which isn't pretty. Harper attacked Martin today about how the Grits had cut healthcare funds in 1993 to stop the haemhorrhaging economy, failing to mention, that as an MP, Harper had voted for even bigger cuts and then chided the Libs for being too soft. I'll give you another Layton quote: "Canadians know that the Liberals won't keep their promises and are afraid that the Conservativs will keep theirs".


A few months ago Martin said there was no money, now he has 30 billion dollars? how come? did he forget to check his left pocket?

This surprises you? Were you also surprised that Bono visted PM to congratulate him on his commitment on AIDS right at the beginning of the election campaign? They're called election gimmicks and no party is above them.


And for those who use the Harris government to show how Harper will be, I can tell you that then you should use the McGuinty government to see how the liberals will be, and then... end of story.
good point. The fact is though, they've already broken tons of promises. The GST was supposed to be temporary, the aging SeaKing helicopters were supposed to have been replaced a long time ago, Martin's daycare program which forms a significant part of his platform is a recycled promise from Chretien's campaign in 1993, the list goes on and on. That's all part of politics. Former PC leader Peter MacKay won his convention by signing a letter stating that he'd never join with the Alliance party, soon forgetting about it. I don't understand how the Conservatives are somehow supposed to be more 'honest' than other politicians. The point is, even with all the screwups and mishandling, Canada's in better shape now than in 1993.

As an aside a lot of the baby-boomers who're considering voting for the Conservatives will be whining about them in a few decades when the majority of Canada will be senior citizens who'll realize that their health and drug coverage has dwindled to nothing in the name of efficiency. People whine now about paying for physio and chiropractors, imagine their relish when they learn that heart pills alone will set them back hundreds.

Hey, but by that time I'll be rich and successful and enjoying my tax-cuts.

Crazy Canuck
Jun 25th, 2004, 05:41 AM
well, I do pay the taxes so that affects me a big deal.

Martin has tried to make this election only about healthcare. I don't like the NDP but Jack Layton had the best remark. He said the election is not only about healthcare like Martin pretends and he said votes should ask themselves a question, can I trust this guy?

the answer is no. Maybe the conservatives won't "promise" to invest as much money in healthcare but will the liberals? at least the conservatives has the benefit of the doubt, the liberals have demonstrated they lie.

A few months ago Martin said there was no money, now he has 30 billion dollars? how come? did he forget to check his left pocket?

And for those who use the Harris government to show how Harper will be, I can tell you that then you should use the McGuinty government to see how the liberals will be, and then... end of story.
Uh, yes, that was my entire point. Using McGuinty or Harris as examples... THEY ALL LIE. They are all going to lie. They will all continue to lie. Welcome to politics.

I'm not criticizing you for voting conservative. You've made it very clear why you do (uh, aside from the "liberals lie" arguement, which is so funny I think that I'm going to fall out of my chair and die now. They ALL lie. Vote for the Conservatives because they will hack your taxes, not because they apparently lie less than the liberals. That's comedy gold). I'm just explaining why I don't, and why I don't see how anybody who doesn't make a very good living would.

Crazy Canuck
Jun 25th, 2004, 05:46 AM
As an aside a lot of the baby-boomers who're considering voting for the Conservatives will be whining about them in a few decades when the majority of Canada will be senior citizens who'll realize that their health and drug coverage has dwindled to nothing in the name of efficiency. People whine now about paying for physio and chiropractors, imagine their relish when they learn that heart pills alone will set them back hundreds.


Heh. Well here is one person who won't feel particularly sorry for them (unless they start dropping dead as a result of this, of course. I don't totally lack compassion).

I love hearing people claim "I will never vote liberal" or "I will never vote conservative"... "because they lied". Excuse me for a moment. I have to fall out of my chair and die laughing again. It's incredible how selectively people attend to things... no matter what government we vote in, they are going to be full of lies. That means you too, NDP. You're too full of ideals to not lie a little ;)

I have absolutely no use for a Conservative government right now. None whatsoever. However, I'd never be so bold as to claim that I never will vote for them, because what if ten years down the road their agenda is ideal for me?

/end rant

Captain.Canada
Jun 25th, 2004, 08:28 PM
There should be consequences for people who lie. Like if you say you're ABSOLUTELY NOT going to raise income tax and then when you get voted in, you do, then you should be booted out of office.
I know that'll probably never happen because no politician in power in his/her right mind would create a law which prevented him/her from lying but the politicians should be accountable for their lies and I think that 4 years is way too long because they break our trust right off the bat and hope we'll forget about it come election time 4 years later.

Fingon
Jun 26th, 2004, 03:32 AM
Uh, yes, that was my entire point. Using McGuinty or Harris as examples... THEY ALL LIE. They are all going to lie. They will all continue to lie. Welcome to politics.

I'm not criticizing you for voting conservative. You've made it very clear why you do (uh, aside from the "liberals lie" arguement, which is so funny I think that I'm going to fall out of my chair and die now. They ALL lie. Vote for the Conservatives because they will hack your taxes, not because they apparently lie less than the liberals. That's comedy gold). I'm just explaining why I don't, and why I don't see how anybody who doesn't make a very good living would.
that is right, I don't trust any politician, you have to see through their nets of lies to see what is left, and what they don't tell you (not only Harper but all of them) and what they don't know, and then, see what you have and choose.

as per Mc Guinty, and notice I won't put this on Martin because it really has nothing to do with him, but back to Mc Guinty, the problem I see is not that he is a liar, not that he is corrupt, it's that he is simply not qualified, he isn't smart enough, and the same goes to Sorbara. He simply doesn't fit the position.

I can live with a little of corruption, it's not that I like it, I hate it but it's unavoidable unfortunately, but stupidity is another thing and IMO it's a lot more dangerous.

Mc Guinty and Sorbara are just plain incompetent and that scares me.

but again, nothing to do with the federal election, Martin is anything but incompetent.

alexusjonesfan
Jun 26th, 2004, 04:16 AM
Mc Guinty and Sorbara are just plain incompetent and that scares me.


I agree, McGuinty's mostly a prettyboy...either that or he's Harper's inside man :o. A lot of people voted for him because he was 'the other choice', just as they're doing with the Conservatives now.

Here's another nugget from Layton's travels today: "Mr. Harper, Canadians want to punish the Liberals for not keeping their promises, not punish themselves by voting for you" :lol:
He hasn't got a hell's chance of getting more seats than Ed Broadbent was able to, but he sure has entertaining speech-writers. Martin and Harper were boring as usual...

Crazy Canuck
Jun 26th, 2004, 06:56 AM
that is right, I don't trust any politician, you have to see through their nets of lies to see what is left, and what they don't tell you (not only Harper but all of them) and what they don't know, and then, see what you have and choose.

as per Mc Guinty, and notice I won't put this on Martin because it really has nothing to do with him, but back to Mc Guinty, the problem I see is not that he is a liar, not that he is corrupt, it's that he is simply not qualified, he isn't smart enough, and the same goes to Sorbara. He simply doesn't fit the position.

I can live with a little of corruption, it's not that I like it, I hate it but it's unavoidable unfortunately, but stupidity is another thing and IMO it's a lot more dangerous.

Mc Guinty and Sorbara are just plain incompetent and that scares me.

but again, nothing to do with the federal election, Martin is anything but incompetent.
For what it's worth, I don't like McGuinty either. But after the way they ripped apart our education system, I wasn't voting PC (were they still PC at that point? Yes?). That.. and I never vote for them.

I don't like Paul Martin either ;)

Barrie_Dude
Jun 26th, 2004, 07:07 PM
Actually, I may change my stance and vote Liberal. My argument with the Liberals is more with Dalton McGuinty than with the federal liberals. At leat, now that Jean the Creature Chreitien is gone. Frankly, Stephen Harper is scaring me, and, having lived in Toronto for a number of years, I am no fan of Jack Layton (nor his wife, Olivia Chow) and, because of that, I would not vote NDP if my life depended on it.

Crazy Canuck
Jun 26th, 2004, 08:47 PM
I can only see t wo reasons for voting conservative -

1)You're rich
2)You believe in their stance on things like gay marriage, and what not

If you don't fit into either of those two catagories, I'm completely lost at what reason there is to vote for them.

Somebody be a dear and enlighten me.

Crazy Canuck
Jun 28th, 2004, 12:33 AM
I take it that nobody has an answer? Great, hopefully people will remember that next time they bash liberal voters ;) (to be fair, conservative voters get a lot of flack too... but not from me)

MrYonex
Jun 28th, 2004, 03:59 AM
Well, I am underage, but I would vote for the NDP. They seem like the only party that won't bankrupt or lie to our country. I think they have good platforms, and they are all about the middleclass family. I hope they get lots of seats, and at the next election I should be able to vote, so I will vote for NDP even if there is a monkey running in my area!

~CANUCK~
Jun 28th, 2004, 04:05 AM
I can only see t wo reasons for voting conservative -

1)You're rich
2)You believe in their stance on things like gay marriage, and what not

If you don't fit into either of those two catagories, I'm completely lost at what reason there is to vote for them.

Somebody be a dear and enlighten me.

They prolly just see harper as the lesser of the two evils. But honestly if he wins this country will fall apart, we will be like mini me of the USA.

polishprodigy
Jun 28th, 2004, 04:14 AM
Well, I am underage, but I would vote for the NDP. They seem like the only party that won't bankrupt or lie to our country. I think they have good platforms, and they are all about the middleclass family. I hope they get lots of seats, and at the next election I should be able to vote, so I will vote for NDP even if there is a monkey running in my area!
All about the middle class family???? Umm...not really. one of the reasons why I am so troubled to vote for the NDP even though I do believe in principle in most of their social and economic policy, is that they focus too much on spending which would lead to deficit but more importantly they do little for the average middle class Canadian. They help out the lower income groups, which is needed, but so much so that I think that if they were in power, they would lead to the EROSION of the middle class! I have watched Layton respond to questions about some of his policies affectin the AVERAGE middle class canadian, and he hasn't impressed me at all. At one point, he told this lady that its just "tough luck" that she would not benefit from the inheritance tax.

polishprodigy
Jun 28th, 2004, 04:19 AM
I can only see t wo reasons for voting conservative -

1)You're rich
2)You believe in their stance on things like gay marriage, and what not

If you don't fit into either of those two catagories, I'm completely lost at what reason there is to vote for them.

Somebody be a dear and enlighten me.
Ok, lets not get extreme here. That is like saying that you should be only gay or low income to vote for the NDP. The conservatives have received a lot of support this time around becaues they have some viable election promises to combat government mismanagement, which has plagued the Liberal record over the last 11 years. What is making people worried is some comments that some conservative MPs have made. But it would be a political death sentence for a government in Canada to outlaw abortion or the death penalty. And 50% of canadians are against gay marriage, so its a very divided issue.

But I am not rich, nor am I poor, I come from a middle class family (like the average Canadian) yet I still am considering (heavily) to vote Conservative. So, your theory is wrong! Certainly the upper class like the conservatives more, perhaps because they are more into tax cuts and business tax cuts, but Martin made a 4 billion dollar tax cut, so your theory should apply to him as well then!

Crazy Canuck
Jun 28th, 2004, 04:26 AM
Ok, lets not get extreme here. That is like saying that you should be only gay or low income to vote for the NDP. The conservatives have received a lot of support this time around becaues they have some viable election promises to combat government mismanagement, which has plagued the Liberal record over the last 11 years. What is making people worried is some comments that some conservative MPs have made. But it would be a political death sentence for a government in Canada to outlaw abortion or the death penalty. And 50% of canadians are against gay marriage, so its a very divided issue.

But I am not rich, nor am I poor, I come from a middle class family (like the average Canadian) yet I still am considering (heavily) to vote Conservative. So, your theory is wrong! Certainly the upper class like the conservatives more, perhaps because they are more into tax cuts and business tax cuts, but Martin made a 4 billion dollar tax cut, so your theory should apply to him as well then!
I actually wasn't being extreme whatsoever. I said "these are the only two reasons I can understand why one would vote Conservative, could sombody give me other reasons?"

Explain to me how posing a question is "extreme"? Furthermore, explain to me how a question is all of a sudden a "theory"? I was demonstrating that I had a weak understanding of something... not that I had devised some sort of theory on the matter.

Anyways, you provided an explanation for your own reasons, so thanks.


(congratulations me. I got through that without using the rolleyes, and boy, did I want to)

Crazy Canuck
Jun 28th, 2004, 04:30 AM
The Average voter is so easily swayed... take the last provincial election in Ontario as an example. People were pissed off at the PC and voted in record numbers of the liberals. I imagine that a good number of people who voted liberal didn't have any idea what they stood for this time around, and that they were even liberal. They were just pissed off at the current government and wanted a change. As a result, the liberals in this province have a ridiculously massive majority, and can do whatever the Hell they want.

I just hope that Canada isn't as stupid as Ontario is. That's all ;)

polishprodigy
Jun 28th, 2004, 04:30 AM
Lol, perhaps I used the wrong language here and there, but you got my point ;)

PointBlank
Jun 28th, 2004, 04:56 AM
What do the canadates look like anyways .. Looks matter :p

Crazy Canuck
Jun 28th, 2004, 09:07 AM
Lol, perhaps I used the wrong language here and there, but you got my point ;)
Sure. I was just annoyed because I was making a point of NOT stepping on conservative toes (because I quite dislike when people generalize liberal voters... as at least one person in this thread already has), and somebody seemingly got all irked out at me for asking a question. But whatever... thanks for answering the question :wavey:

alexusjonesfan
Jun 28th, 2004, 04:56 PM
Go out and vote!

The liberals win a minority by a slim margin according to our uber-scientific wtaworld poll ;)

Barrie_Dude
Jun 28th, 2004, 05:16 PM
They prolly just see harper as the lesser of the two evils. But honestly if he wins this country will fall apart, we will be like mini me of the USA.Having lived in the States and Canada, I can tell you that, effectivly, we are a "Mini Me" of the USA! Our defense and economy depend entirely on the USA.

Barrie_Dude
Jun 28th, 2004, 05:19 PM
Yay! You can put me through either grad school for psych or law school. Whatever I decide to do! It's great to have a sugar... mamma?Sooooo, can we expect to see you in Toronto at UT or York? :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


Or will you be at Westen in London?:sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:

Crazy Canuck
Jun 28th, 2004, 05:43 PM
Having lived in the States and Canada, I can tell you that, effectivly, we are a "Mini Me" of the USA! Our defense and economy depend entirely on the USA.
That's true.

As for school, I'm going west west.

Barrie_Dude
Jun 28th, 2004, 05:53 PM
That's true.

As for school, I'm going west west.You will be missed, Becca!:sad:

cyberix
Jun 28th, 2004, 09:18 PM
Well this is an interesting thread. I have already voted (advance voting) for the Liberals. My reasons
First, I don't look at personalities or scandals. That isn't what dictates government policy. (Isn't it a shame that Clinton and the democrats loose their government position because of a woman?? and that this lead to the Iraq mess)
Second the conservative option, although it would benefit me financially, is too far to the right and would lead to the loss/diminishment of social programs which are the envy of most Americans plus it would bring us closer to integration with the US.
Third, the NDP is too far to the left and although favorable for Labour at first glance would eventually lead to a lowering of the standard of living brought about by the fleeing of capital and business (ex. BC).
Leaves me with the liberals which seem to strike a balance which the others lack.