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View Full Version : Why so much ado for the Williamsesīs special seedings?!


bandabou
Jun 2nd, 2004, 04:49 PM
Look at comments like this:

That's because Serena Williams is out. She lost to Jennifer Capriati 6-3 2-6 6-3, and will slip all the way to #11 (though of course she still has her protected ranking, which will last for at least a few more weeks before the WTA re-assesses her. And, given that "re-assess" appears to be WTA-speak for "give all Williamses the same ranking we gave them before" -- they never announced the results of Venus's re-assessment, just continued her special ranking, despite pretty horrid results to that point -- it's likely that she will keep that same seeding even after re-assessment).

It's a bit ironic to note that the Myskina/Venus and Capriati/Serena matches were both won by the player seeded lower but with the better WTA ranking.

Why is that?! I donīt remember any such comments when Lindsay didnīt have no titles during her protected rankings period?!

lizchris
Jun 2nd, 2004, 04:54 PM
Look at comments like this:

That's because Serena Williams is out. She lost to Jennifer Capriati 6-3 2-6 6-3, and will slip all the way to #11 (though of course she still has her protected ranking, which will last for at least a few more weeks before the WTA re-assesses her. And, given that "re-assess" appears to be WTA-speak for "give all Williamses the same ranking we gave them before" -- they never announced the results of Venus's re-assessment, just continued her special ranking, despite pretty horrid results to that point -- it's likely that she will keep that same seeding even after re-assessment).

It's a bit ironic to note that the Myskina/Venus and Capriati/Serena matches were both won by the player seeded lower but with the better WTA ranking.

Why is that?! I donīt remember any such comments when Lindsay didnīt have no titles during her protected rankings period?!
That's because Lindsay Davenport isn't Venus Williams or Serena Williams.

No matter what these young women do, they are going to be criticized. If they win, it's bad for tennis, if they lose (like they did yesterday), they are finished, so what can you do.

Thanks for brining up that though Lindsay had solid results, she didn't win any titles while she had her protected ranking. I think a lot of peole forget that.

bandabou
Jun 2nd, 2004, 04:59 PM
Real frustrating, liz....when you canīt do NOTHING right.

lizchris
Jun 2nd, 2004, 05:01 PM
[insert dramatic and sad music]

Most people couldn't care less about their seeding. Is it just another bitter thread to start trouble and drama?
Why don't you ask the person who started it?

lizchris
Jun 2nd, 2004, 05:01 PM
Real frustrating, liz....when you canīt do NOTHING right.
Not for them, but for their critics.

bandabou
Jun 2nd, 2004, 05:02 PM
well...the author of the article does....or donīt you see the comments?!

Jennifer's wife
Jun 2nd, 2004, 05:04 PM
i think the special seeding sux whoever its for and that includes lindsay davenpork. i think if youre out for whatever reason youre out and should have to work your way back up. if ur any good u can climb from oblivion to win grand slams ;)

lizchris
Jun 2nd, 2004, 05:04 PM
well...the author of the article does....or donīt you see the comments?!
Maybe he is blind?

BTW, there were a lot of people talking and there were a lot of articles when Justine lost, but not to the extent of yesterday.

faboozadoo15
Jun 2nd, 2004, 05:15 PM
So let's resume the situation...

"My fave lost and I have nothing better to do than dissecting their opponent after-match interviews or articles to find anything that can be considered negative to start my the-whole-world-is-against-us whining."
cliff's noted for what we will see in the next few days...

bandabou
Jun 2nd, 2004, 05:17 PM
Nothing of that sort cool.....but when Lindsay had her protected ranking it was all nice and cool, but now...you see snide comments: like horrible results, this and that.

Iīve no problem when they write something negative about my favs, but they should be consistent.

Helen Lawson
Jun 2nd, 2004, 05:27 PM
Nothing of that sort cool.....but when Lindsay had her protected ranking it was all nice and cool, but now...you see snide comments: like horrible results, this and that.

Iīve no problem when they write something negative about my favs, but they should be consistent.
Lindsay had the protected ranking for the bare number of tournaments and then was left to flip in the wind, such as at the 2003 Australian Open when she had to face Justine in the Fourth Round. If that had happened to Venus, we would still be hearing about it.

Venus has been back 5 months and played 7 tournaments, yet is bumped up 4 seeds for a tournament she has never won and in which she has suffered early round losses in the past. No other player has ever received that sort of preferential treatment.

The Crow
Jun 2nd, 2004, 05:38 PM
Bandy and Liz, is whining the only thing you two do all day? I can understand that if you love a player you try to defend them, but please. The entire world is not against your favs all the freaking time.

I hate special seedings/ranks/whatever/... whether it's Venus, Serena, Lindsay or my own fav who gets it. Injuries are part of the game. Period.

And it is indeed a bit ironic to note that the Myskina/Venus and Capriati/Serena matches were both won by the player seeded lower but with the better WTA ranking, don't you think?

lizchris
Jun 2nd, 2004, 05:55 PM
Lindsay had the protected ranking for the bare number of tournaments and then was left to flip in the wind, such as at the 2003 Australian Open when she had to face Justine in the Fourth Round. If that had happened to Venus, we would still be hearing about it.

Venus has been back 5 months and played 7 tournaments, yet is bumped up 4 seeds for a tournament she has never won and in which she has suffered early round losses in the past. No other player has ever received that sort of preferential treatment.
If what I remember someone saying on the board is true, then people have nothing to complain about because this special seeding was suppsoed to be for a maxium eight tournaments. If this is Venus' eight tournament, then don't expect her to get a special seeding for Wimbledon.

bandabou
Jun 2nd, 2004, 06:38 PM
Bandy and Liz, is whining the only thing you two do all day? I can understand that if you love a player you try to defend them, but please. The entire world is not against your favs all the freaking time.

I hate special seedings/ranks/whatever/... whether it's Venus, Serena, Lindsay or my own fav who gets it. Injuries are part of the game. Period.

And it is indeed a bit ironic to note that the Myskina/Venus and Capriati/Serena matches were both won by the player seeded lower but with the better WTA ranking, don't you think?

Maybe...but the actual higher ranked player Momo losing to Elena D is more ironic...just me.

bandabou
Jun 2nd, 2004, 06:41 PM
Lindsay had the protected ranking for the bare number of tournaments and then was left to flip in the wind, such as at the 2003 Australian Open when she had to face Justine in the Fourth Round. If that had happened to Venus, we would still be hearing about it.

Venus has been back 5 months and played 7 tournaments, yet is bumped up 4 seeds for a tournament she has never won and in which she has suffered early round losses in the past. No other player has ever received that sort of preferential treatment.

But Serena has only played 5 tournaments...and has done reasonably well in all of them.

LiliaLee-Frazier
Jun 2nd, 2004, 06:41 PM
Well..no..thats not it AT ALL. Its just goes to show that they were not ready to live up to there special seedings.
It actually worked against them and will contribute to both of them falling out of the top 10 after wimbledon. Its a shame when you think about it. Soooo many injuries and soo many mediocre players taking advantage and slipping into the later rds... :sad:

DA FOREHAND
Jun 2nd, 2004, 06:45 PM
"Lindsay had the protected ranking for the bare number of tournaments and then was left to flip in the wind, such as at the 2003 Australian Open when she had to face Justine in the Fourth Round. If that had happened to Venus, we would still be hearing about it. "

If you recall Venus thumped justine 6-3 6-3 at the A.O., so i guess you're talking about justine's fans whining about her having to meet Venus so early, and getting her ass kicked.

GermanBoy
Jun 2nd, 2004, 06:46 PM
:rolleyes: @ this whole thread! Venus and Serena are poor girls, we all know that... :rolleyes:

The long-play record repeats itself all the time.... :rolleyes:

lizchris
Jun 2nd, 2004, 06:48 PM
Well..no..thats not it AT ALL. Its just goes to show that they were not ready to live up to there special seedings.
It actually worked against them and will contribute to both of them falling out of the top 10 after wimbledon. Its a shame when you think about it. Soooo many injuries and soo many mediocre players taking advantage and slipping into the later rds... :sad:
Serena will be #11 next Monday, so she is already out of the top ten.

The sisters have absolutely nothing to defend after Wimbeldon, so I think they will be securely in the top ten after the USO is over. Most of the other players in the top ten have al lot of points to defend, and if Kim and Lindsay are still injured and cannot play, they will fall in the rankings just as Venus and Serena have.

alexusjonesfan
Jun 2nd, 2004, 07:59 PM
http://brawl-hall.com/gallery/data/media/5/drama_queen.jpg

fammmmedspin
Jun 2nd, 2004, 08:04 PM
Problem with the article is that it could be clearer and has an axe to grind. It raises some important questions though. Why doesn't the WTA announce what is happening with Venus's special ranking instead of it just seeming to continue with no assessment made as to if or how long she has it now after the first 4 tournaments. The other question is whether Serena and Venus are performing at the level required to justify their special ranking past the 4 initial tournaments. The answer is yes but no one has bothered to think of an explanation why.

As lots of other people are not playing and they only have a few tournaments left and many of the players playing best are not in the top 4 anyway it may not matter but it may when they get to their 9th tournament if they start getting some strange special special ranking. At their current rate they are not going to be at their special ranking by the USO so we may get something odd there - though if Serena doesn't play much more she might get to the USO in her total of 8 outings plus GS at her special ranking. Its not only an issue about draws its also pretty odd if you beat the second seed and get the quality points for someone outside the top 10.

Fingon
Jun 2nd, 2004, 09:19 PM
Look at comments like this:

That's because Serena Williams is out. She lost to Jennifer Capriati 6-3 2-6 6-3, and will slip all the way to #11 (though of course she still has her protected ranking, which will last for at least a few more weeks before the WTA re-assesses her. And, given that "re-assess" appears to be WTA-speak for "give all Williamses the same ranking we gave them before" -- they never announced the results of Venus's re-assessment, just continued her special ranking, despite pretty horrid results to that point -- it's likely that she will keep that same seeding even after re-assessment).

It's a bit ironic to note that the Myskina/Venus and Capriati/Serena matches were both won by the player seeded lower but with the better WTA ranking.

Why is that?! I donīt remember any such comments when Lindsay didnīt have no titles during her protected rankings period?!
I don't have a problem with Venus and Serena getting special seedings.

The problem is that they are given special rankings for quality points calculation purposes. that is beating Serena means # 2 quality points which is plain wrong.

that doesn't benefit the sisters and has nothing to do with the injuries, it's just lame ass WTA non-sense that contributes even more to distort the already fucked up ranking system.

If Somebody beats Serena, Kim and Justine in the same tournament, they get a ridiculous number of points that doesn't necessarily reflect reality.

It's perceived that beating Serena is a tough task, but even if it's evident for many people, it's still a subjective perception, it's just that the WTA "thinks" that's the degree of difficulty (#2) which introduces discretionality into the system.

Tomorrow they could decide that beating Sharapova is as difficult as beating the # 1 and reward # 1 points for beating her.

There are no guidelines, just the judgement of WTA officials (that normally is proven wrong) and that has converted the ranking system in a big joke.

IMO they should reward quality points based purely on rankings, no matter what, that's objective and nobody can argue that. If they have special rankings, why do they have rankings at all?

In addition, IMO they WTA should recalculate all the rankings that involved quality points under this mess, and they should compensate players whose seedings were affected by this miscalculations (example if Lisa Raymond got a 16th seed when it should have been 17th, too bad, next time you are down 1 place Lisa).

all of this would mean for the WTA to understand what a ranking is, something they obviously don't.

GoDominique
Jun 2nd, 2004, 10:09 PM
I agree with Fingon.

It's quite funny that awarding those inflated bonus points is actually a disadvantage for the sisters - of course only if they ever get their 'normal' ranking back. :rolleyes:

Yes, things can change during 6 months. And injuires are part of the game.
Anne Kremer (former top 30) is now struggling in satellites. Bad luck. But should her opponents in these events get 15 bonus points for beating her? No.
MAYBE SHE JUST ISN'T THAT GOOD ANYMORE.