PDA

View Full Version : Carl Maes : "Venus still has so much potential."


Josh
Jun 1st, 2004, 11:10 PM
Kim's ex-coach was commentating the match between Venus and Myskina and said that Venus has so much potential still. There are so many things she could improve and make her even better than she already is. Scary thought!

But I think he's right, Venus pretty much is a raw diamond. Just imagine what she could do to the tour if she actually used all her potential! :eek:

Agree or not?

Bezz
Jun 1st, 2004, 11:14 PM
Well i agree to an extent, venus can make improvements, but there is an old saying "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" (no offense). I just see her carrying on with the weaknesses in her game much like Hingis did with the serve, she knows they are a problem but she has played like that for years, trying to change now might be too hard. ?

Rocketta
Jun 1st, 2004, 11:16 PM
I agree...there's so much she can work on in regards to aggression and net play that would have a massive effect on her game.

darrinbaker00
Jun 1st, 2004, 11:18 PM
Well i agree to an extent, venus can make improvements, but there is an old saying "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" (no offense). I just see her carrying on with the weaknesses in her game much like Hingis did with the serve, she knows they are a problem but she has played like that for years, trying to change now might be too hard. ?
I couldn't disagree more, Bezz, and I offer up none other than 28-year-old Jennifer Capriati as evidence. ;)

volta
Jun 1st, 2004, 11:18 PM
Kim's ex-coach was commentating the match between Venus and Myskina and said that Venus has so much potential still. There are so many things she could improve and make her even better than she already is. Scary thought!

But I think he's right, Venus pretty much is a raw diamond. Just imagine what she could do to the tour if she actually used all her potential! :eek:

Agree or not?
i agree 100 %. she can improve her forehand, she can improve her service (wich is the best of WTA and still she can improve it) she needs to improve her concentration, she can improve her backhand....... WOW realising that sheīs one of the bests Tennis players off all time and has all this and mutch more to improve itīs just fantastique. :eek:

azinna
Jun 1st, 2004, 11:42 PM
During her tough 2nd set in the 4th round I saw Venus serving and volleying. With her serve, she pulled her opponent out wide of the deuce court. The return she got was dipping and threatening to jam her, but she closed in quickly and executed one of the more beautiful volleys I've seen this fortnight in women's tennis. The point was classic, old skool tennis. And it suited Venus' body to a T. She seemed to be gliding. It made be sigh at what could be.

Venus' potential will be fully realised only if she starts playing truly all-court tennis. Especially coming in after strong 1st serves and every damn weak reply she gets. It makes too much sense, really. And lets' face it: she's not winning slams with a baseline-hugging game. Out of the 7 matches that's required of her, there's always one opponent that can consistently bunt that power serve back, play frustrating defense, exploit that forehand, or get her to twist or strain something while running herself ragged. She needs to realise that her body was never meant for Serena's game.

Of course, it is not a good time for any radical changes. Let's see what the summer brings. But if she ends the year with no major titles, I strongly suggest she spend the fall and winter sculpting a serve and volley game. She's not in tennis to be the 5th best player.

Meanwhile, Venus, act like the 23 year-old woman you are and ask your father if he wishes to be your coach. If he says he can't accompany you to at least all four slams, then consider a replacement. BJK for example.

lizchris
Jun 1st, 2004, 11:59 PM
If Venus wants to improve her game, she will have to ask for outside help, that has been offered to her in the past becasue a lot of people know she can improve on her game, but if Venus wants to get better, she has to be the one to ask for help and she is so loyal to her father that she doesn't want to do that, but she may have to rethink her position, epsecially if she ever wants to win the French Open, which I still think she can do.

volta
Jun 2nd, 2004, 12:04 AM
If Venus wants to improve her game, she will have to ask for outside help, that has been offered to her in the past becasue a lot of people know she can improve on her game, but if Venus wants to get better, she has to be the one to ask for help and she is so loyal to her father that she doesn't want to do that, but she may have to rethink her position, epsecially if she ever wants to win the French Open, which I still think she can do.
i donīt agree i think that the sisters always play better when Richard is "in the zone" LOL. Richard can make her improve her game but he needs to travel more with them. hopefully after this RG he realises that.

lizchris
Jun 2nd, 2004, 12:07 AM
i donīt agree i think that the sisters always play better when Richard is "in the zone" LOL. Richard can make her improve her game but he needs to travel more with them. hopefully after this RG he realises that.
Anyone who is a fan of the sisters knows that the only Grand Slam he goes to other than the USO is Wimbledon because he doesn't like to fly plus he likes that the English press has been relatively fair to the sisters.

azinna
Jun 2nd, 2004, 12:09 AM
i donīt agree i think that the sisters always play better when Richard is "in the zone" LOL. Richard can make her improve her game but he needs to travel more with them. hopefully after this RG he realises that.

Without doubt Venus becomes a sharper more focused player when Richard is around. But for whatever reason he accompanies her about half the time. Venus has had bad losses before. Richard still ain't in Paris. No serious player should have to accept this arrangement.

azinna
Jun 2nd, 2004, 12:13 AM
Anyone who is a fan of the sisters knows that the only Grand Slam he goes to other than the USO is Wimbledon because he doesn't like to fly plus he likes that the English press has been relatively fair to the sisters.

True. Also, a reporter once found out that he doesn't even like attending matches. He said he didn't want to be part of folks turning their heads one way, the other way, and then "clapping like seals." The comment cracked me up when I read it, but now I'm like: "Venus, do you have a coach?"

WF4EVER
Jun 2nd, 2004, 12:35 AM
Of course Venus can improve her game a lot, but is she willing to? I think Venus is a very lazy-minded player who thinks she can get by on the gifts she has. The serve and volley horse has been ridden into the ground already; can't you see that Venus is not willing to change?

Every FedCup that she participates in the same argument comes up: Venus would be almost unbeatable with a serve and volley game and she does it for a little while then it's back to her old ways.

However I really don't think that was Venus' problem today. Venus seemed flat and uninspired, almost like she didn't expect much of herself today and I have no idea why.

But back to the topic I really think Venus can improve if she really tried, but she's just not willing to try. Losing this FO is a huge blow to her; she wanted it badly, but she has to learn the hard way. I fear that if she doesn't make the kind of commitment to strengthening her weaknesses and perfecting her strengths that RG Finals is the best she'll do. I'm not counting her out at all but I think she has to adapt a no-lazy, I'm-not-good-enough-as-is attitude and push herself to be much better because she has a lot of potential. Hope? I don't know.

I don't think Venus needs a new coach, tho; she just needs her coach. Poor Richard, I really sympathize with his hatred of flying but Vee especially needs him there 24/7. He has a huge impact on her performance and IMO she plays well because she wants him to be pleased. Her mother just sits there and squirms/claps the opponent/ winces/claps the opponent. I don't think Vee and Rena need a chaperone; they're adults already, but a coach (Richard) would go a long way to at least make them strive harder.

thecatinthehat
Jun 2nd, 2004, 12:37 AM
I think that before Venus makes some major changes she will have to first take a couple steps back. This is a move that Venus may be unwilling to make. We all remember the poor results that Justine had while fixing her serve.

Rocketta
Jun 2nd, 2004, 01:01 AM
Of course Venus can improve her game a lot, but is she willing to? I think Venus is a very lazy-minded player who thinks she can get by on the gifts she has. The serve and volley horse has been ridden into the ground already; can't you see that Venus is not willing to change?

Every FedCup that she participates in the same argument comes up: Venus would be almost unbeatable with a serve and volley game and she does it for a little while then it's back to her old ways.

However I really don't think that was Venus' problem today. Venus seemed flat and uninspired, almost like she didn't expect much of herself today and I have no idea why.

But back to the topic I really think Venus can improve if she really tried, but she's just not willing to try. Losing this FO is a huge blow to her; she wanted it badly, but she has to learn the hard way. I fear that if she doesn't make the kind of commitment to strengthening her weaknesses and perfecting her strengths that RG Finals is the best she'll do. I'm not counting her out at all but I think she has to adapt a no-lazy, I'm-not-good-enough-as-is attitude and push herself to be much better because she has a lot of potential. Hope? I don't know.

I don't think Venus needs a new coach, tho; she just needs her coach. Poor Richard, I really sympathize with his hatred of flying but Vee especially needs him there 24/7. He has a huge impact on her performance and IMO she plays well because she wants him to be pleased. Her mother just sits there and squirms/claps the opponent/ winces/claps the opponent. I don't think Vee and Rena need a chaperone; they're adults already, but a coach (Richard) would go a long way to at least make them strive harder.
I agree Venus plays better when Richard is there but I disagree that Venus is lazy. I've seen her practice as hard as anyone. I think she struggles with motivation. This is where Richard is vital for Venus.

BigTennisFan
Jun 2nd, 2004, 01:01 AM
I agree with the sentiments that say even though she won't be able to fix her serve and forehand (at least not very quickly) she can fix her head so that she takes advantage of her serve and volley potential.


A couple of weeks ago she was going on and on about how she was coming to the net and she discovered that she liked it.

I wish that she would take that attitude on the court with more consistency.

And I do think that she needs to get a new coach. It won't happen though unless Richard insists. And he should be selfless enough to do that. :cool:

faste5683
Jun 2nd, 2004, 01:04 AM
If Venus wants to improve her game, she will have to ask for outside help, that has been offered to her in the past becasue a lot of people know she can improve on her game, but if Venus wants to get better, she has to be the one to ask for help and she is so loyal to her father that she doesn't want to do that, but she may have to rethink her position, epsecially if she ever wants to win the French Open, which I still think she can do.

Right on the money, lizchris. Think Brad Gilbert and Venus working together for a year - :eek: Awesome.

:wavey:

lizchris
Jun 2nd, 2004, 01:13 AM
Right on the money, lizchris. Think Brad Gilbert and Venus working together for a year - :eek: Awesome.

:wavey:
That would be great!

Does he coach female players?

faste5683
Jun 2nd, 2004, 01:20 AM
That would be great!

Does he coach female players?

From what I recall, right after he and Agassi split, Brad worked with several women players (albeit briefly). The thing is, ANY experienced professional who has a talent for coaching would be great for Venus - if they learned to trust and like (respect) one another. The "keeping it in the family thing" was fine in the beggining, but Venus really could use a full time "professional" touring coach.

:wavey:

1jackson2001
Jun 2nd, 2004, 01:35 AM
Of course she can improve. :)

WF4EVER
Jun 2nd, 2004, 01:40 AM
I agree Venus plays better when Richard is there but I disagree that Venus is lazy. I've seen her practice as hard as anyone. I think she struggles with motivation. This is where Richard is vital for Venus.
I don't mean laziness in terms of practising; I mean in terms of working on new things, working harder on her second serves, etc, coming to net. Venus needs motivation to come to the net? Maybe we should litter it with Hershey's kisses then since she likes chocolate.

Vee is too complacent, IMO. She's too satisfied getting by with what she has so she doesn't work on "expanding her arsenal".

Working hard in practise doesn't mean a thing if you are lost when there's a real opponent across from the net. Vee says she intends to play for 10 more years but she can't play 2 more years without making herself more formidable. It hurts to see someone of Vee's potential not go for it. Serena OTOH wants to be the best and she works hard at it (at least she did pre-Hollywood). I wish some of Serena's drive would rub off on her sister.

Diesel
Jun 2nd, 2004, 01:40 AM
I think that before Venus makes some major changes she will have to first take a couple steps back. This is a move that Venus may be unwilling to make. We all remember the poor results that Justine had while fixing her serve.

Agree 100% here. Sometimes that's the only way to learn, or re-learn as the case may be.

Diesel
Jun 2nd, 2004, 01:42 AM
From what I recall, right after he and Agassi split, Brad worked with several women players (albeit briefly). The thing is, ANY experienced professional who has a talent for coaching would be great for Venus - if they learned to trust and like (respect) one another. The "keeping it in the family thing" was fine in the beggining, but Venus really could use a full time "professional" touring coach.

:wavey:

I'm all for one of the changes being a new coach. The keeping in the family thing I feel has gone as far as it can go and will go.

WF4EVER
Jun 2nd, 2004, 01:45 AM
You know I would really be shocked if Venus ever got a different coach; shocked, I say.

Shock me, Venus. Shock me.

le bon vivant
Jun 2nd, 2004, 01:53 AM
Venus or Serena don't want new coaches because a professional coach (No offense to Richard or Oracene) would not allow them to have free reign over when they practice or what they do. A coach would get sick of Venus and Serena not focusing 100% on tennis, and would most likely end up quitting or the relationship between Venus/Serena and the new coach would sour. Matches like what happened today would make a lot of coaches leave the stadium and go back to the hotel room.

Diesel
Jun 2nd, 2004, 01:57 AM
Venus or Serena don't want new coaches because a professional coach (No offense to Richard or Oracene) would not allow them to have free reign over when they practice or what they do. A coach would get sick of Venus and Serena not focusing 100% on tennis, and would most likely end up quitting or the relationship between Venus/Serena and the new coach would sour. Matches like what happened today would make a lot of coaches leave the stadium and go back to the hotel room.

So they don't want to improve and like where they are at now?

I doubt that. I think there is a difference. With the parents it's their parents. They know them and that's why and how they got where they're at now.

Venus and Serena have had to be highly disciplined like any successful tennis star to get to championship form. You don't do that by being lazy. I don't think a coach and rules is something they are against. I just think they believe they can get back to the top with what they have and their system with their parents.

azinna
Jun 2nd, 2004, 02:02 AM
I think that before Venus makes some major changes she will have to first take a couple steps back. This is a move that Venus may be unwilling to make. We all remember the poor results that Justine had while fixing her serve.

True. But it's not like she's winning slams here. I hope she realises that if she's not willing to take those steps back herself, the Russians will continue to help her do it.

gweeny
Jun 2nd, 2004, 02:06 AM
I hope Venus will get a new coach. At least for a couple of months. Serena apparently benefits more from Oracene coaching her than Venus does.
It will be sad, if Venus fails to reach her potential based on trying to please her family. (If that's what she is doing).

Good luck Venus in the wimbledon. :bounce:

le bon vivant
Jun 2nd, 2004, 02:13 AM
So they don't want to improve and like where they are at now?

I doubt that. I think there is a difference. With the parents it's their parents. They know them and that's why and how they got where they're at now.

Venus and Serena have had to be highly disciplined like any successful tennis star to get to championship form. You don't do that by being lazy. I don't think a coach and rules is something they are against. I just think they believe they can get back to the top with what they have and their system with their parents. Yes, loyalty is definitely a big part of it. But also, Venus and Serena wouldn't enjoy their tennis if they had to put in the level of commitment that an outside coach would require.

BTW, why won't they fire Kerry Brooks?!:fiery::fiery: I think she needs to go, they need a new physical therapist.

Diesel
Jun 2nd, 2004, 02:21 AM
BTW, why won't they fire Kerry Brooks?!:fiery::fiery: I think she needs to go, they need a new physical therapist.

That would be a big first step. Especially with their current states.

Venus and Serena need to make some changes. All may not even look or be substantial but if they want to be #1 and #2 in the world again, competing for grand slams like they used to, they need to try to get that reality back again and just talking about it may not be enough anymore.

Rocketta
Jun 2nd, 2004, 02:30 AM
I don't mean laziness in terms of practising; I mean in terms of working on new things, working harder on her second serves, etc, coming to net. Venus needs motivation to come to the net? Maybe we should litter it with Hershey's kisses then since she likes chocolate.

Vee is too complacent, IMO. She's too satisfied getting by with what she has so she doesn't work on "expanding her arsenal".

Working hard in practise doesn't mean a thing if you are lost when there's a real opponent across from the net. Vee says she intends to play for 10 more years but she can't play 2 more years without making herself more formidable. It hurts to see someone of Vee's potential not go for it. Serena OTOH wants to be the best and she works hard at it (at least she did pre-Hollywood). I wish some of Serena's drive would rub off on her sister.
that's not my experience watching Venus practice. Actually she worked on her forehand, her net game and her serve for hours...It all comes down to who is directing her practices. To change habit takes a lot of practice. If you don't have someone helping you focus on what your are working on and a game plan you can tend to revert to normal.

I think it's a misconception that Venus doesn't practice on her weaknesses because I saw her work very hard on them in Charleston and they got a lot better in Charleston, Fed Cup and then she started traveling with her mother. I have no doubt in my mind that practices became less focused and more about convience. Also factor in not practicing at all because of a bum ankle I think its very evident why she would revert back to her old game.

She needs consistency in her coaching, ie she needs a full-time coach. Whether it's Richard or someone else, to me is of little consequence because to me it's all about consistency in focus.

Chance
Jun 2nd, 2004, 03:35 AM
I agree 100% that's why it's so freaky frustrating when she plays absolute shit arse tennis!!!!!!

Richard better be at Wimbledon!!!

tennisIlove09
Jun 2nd, 2004, 03:39 AM
Richard will be in London :)

Venus Forever
Jun 2nd, 2004, 04:17 AM
That's the one thing I don't like about Venus. She is STUBBORN as hell.

She DESPERATELY needs a new coach, because she definitely needs to work out these kinks. She's so strange on court. She plays great, hitting the ball well, going into net, attacking everything. Then she plays terrible, goes passive, forehand and serve breakdown, and stops going to net. She has soooo many up and downs, she needs to find that consistency out there. A new coach would definitely help her achieve that.

Venus, however, will NEVER get a new coach. She'll take advice here and there, but she will NEVER consistently improve because those "advice-givers" will only be there 1% of the time.

Sometimes, I just wonder about her. She says tennis is #1, and there is no doubt in my mind that it is, but DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Diesel
Jun 2nd, 2004, 04:31 AM
Richard will be in London :)

Richard has been great. Deserves all the credit in the world, but I don't believe he's this magician that can get Venus not just into a final but wining it. Where were the slams? Serena and Justine have them. Venus needs a new coach among other things, not just relying on Richard or else she'll remain slamless.

venus_envy
Jun 2nd, 2004, 06:07 AM
Venus needs to get a new coach, there is no question about it. If you want to really be real, I honestly don't think she's getting a lot of coaching from anywhere. Richard is really not around most of the time and Oracene really doesn't strike me as much of a coach.

One thing that proves to me that Venus would benefit greatly from a new coach outside of the family is the drastic change in her game earlier this year after a few coaching sessions at Fed Cup. After that, she was really aggressive and attacking the net like crazy...and winning! That was just from a few sessions.

I know that Venus claims that her parents have been telling her the same thing that she was told at fed cup...but obviously there was something about her getting that coaching that made up the difference (maybe just getting objective opinions on her game).

I think that it is a great achievement that both sisters have gotten this far doing the family thing, but I think Venus (even more so than Serena) probably will keep getting similar results if she doesn't branch out and get some outside coaching.

Venus needs somebody that is going to drill her on developing a serve and volley game. And to keep on her when she stops coming to the net and goes back to the baseline game that she feels most confortable with. I just have a hard time believing that they are doing that right now or Venus would be at the net more and would have been doing it long before Fed Cup.

Another problem with thier current set up is that they are trying to coach two top tennis players at the same time. Venus is basically sharing her coach with her sister whereas if she had her own coach she would have somebody to focus on her game exclusively ao that she can make the necessary adjustments to her game. I don't care how much they claim that the coaching is equal, there is no way it can be.

Another issue that I have had with the set up also has to do with the fact that since Venus and Serena are coached and trained together they are not trained to beat each other. I understand that they are sisters, but to me if you are somebody's coach you need to help them gain the skills to beat all of their opponents. Since Venus' parents don't want to do that, it shows the huge conflict of interest there. The saddest part about it was that Venus kept losing to the same person that she was training with and her coaches still didn't want to help her beat her. Its understandable to feel like that because they are family, but when they saw that this was happening they should have stepped aside and let them get seperate coaches. That way they haven't taught them to beat each other, and the parents could truely sit back and just be happy with whoever was able to get the win.

I think that its really going to be more and more of a problem as time goes on. I believe that right now Venus more than Serena needs a new coach, but Serena will come to a point where she will too...and she has already in the past gotten outside coaching.

I am not coming down on Venus' parents. I respect and commend them for all that they have done for their daughters to get them to this point. But I really think that if they really want to see their daughters become the best that they can be, they should allow them and even encourage them to seek outside coaching. Honestly, I am not even sure how much time Oracene will have for tennis once she gets custody of her grandkids.

The big thing that has to happen is that Venus needs to make the decision to get the coaching. She is a grown woman, very capable of making her own decisions. Venus needs to realize that getting a coach does not mean that she is abandoning her family. She should remember what her parents told her from a young age that tennis was just tennis, but your still family at the end of the day. She needs to see that this chance that she has is a once in a lifetime one, and if her family loves her, they will support her decision to get her own coach.

Though it pains me to say this about Venus because she is my favorite, I really believe that if Venus doesn't get her own coach (one that will challege her to work on the weaknesses in her game) she is going to find herself always coming close but just not making it. The sad part about this is that I really believe that if Venus really did dedicate herself to a good coach, that she has the potential to be the best in the game. If things stay the same I highly doubt that she will come close to her potential. The same could be said for Serena too, although at this point I think she is still benefitting from her coaching and if she would focus on getting back into form she could still do well.

Sam L
Jun 2nd, 2004, 06:12 AM
In theory yes she has a lot of potential but then on the other hand I don't think so. Keep in mind that filling that potential would mean more practice. More practice = more pressure on the body = more risks of injuries. With her already as injured as she is, how can she keep this up? :confused:

I don't know. That's just one way of looking at it.

It's like Monica after her stabbing. We know that she if really wanted to, she could've lost about 10 kg and swept the slams again, but did she? Was it REALLY possible for her? Nope.

tyk101
Jun 2nd, 2004, 06:24 AM
Kim's ex-coach was commentating the match between Venus and Myskina and said that Venus has so much potential still. There are so many things she could improve and make her even better than she already is. Scary thought!

But I think he's right, Venus pretty much is a raw diamond. Just imagine what she could do to the tour if she actually used all her potential! :eek:

Agree or not?
definitely can improve her game, but is she willing to get input other than from her parents?