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View Full Version : Serena, the knee, clay... what's up?


Diesel
Jun 1st, 2004, 02:21 PM
How long until Serena gets her whole game together? Especially with that knee.

Is it the surface that eventually gives her trouble with the knee and will grass suit it better? She says she's healthy and fine, but the clay court season hasn't done Serena any favors.

Jen played better than Serena today - I can stand Serena losing to Jen because of who Jen is; a lesser ranked and quality player would have really bothered me. It was an important match for her. Undoubtedly it's an important match for anyone when it's a win, but how important is it that Serena lost and what does she need to do in the future, what does this loss mean for right now?

bandabou
Jun 1st, 2004, 02:24 PM
I think the clay just exposes Serenaīs lack of patience a bit...she can be patient, but it is against her nature. The knee is a concern....the knee is a major concern. Second let-up already....

Diesel
Jun 1st, 2004, 02:32 PM
I think the clay just exposes Serenaīs lack of patience a bit...she can be patient, but it is against her nature. The knee is a concern....the knee is a major concern. Second let-up already....

Serena needs to be patient, but that knee worries me. I would hate this to be a recurring thing.

fammmmedspin
Jun 1st, 2004, 02:45 PM
where was the pain - the commentary here reported she was grimacing with her left leg - but next minute she ws sliding all over the place and the next she wasn't running for dropshots so its not clear what injury she has.?

bandabou
Jun 1st, 2004, 02:49 PM
where was the pain - the commentary here reported she was grimacing with her left leg - but next minute she ws sliding all over the place and the next she wasn't running for dropshots so its not clear what injury she has.?


She couldnīt set up at all for her serves....and you call see her grab the knee constantly. Plus her face looked like she was in real obvious pain.

Helas
Jun 1st, 2004, 02:49 PM
Serena lost in 3 sets thats no disgrace especially since Capriati is one who can beat anyone on her day. :wavey:

Junex
Jun 1st, 2004, 02:55 PM
is the knee really a big factor in Serena's defeat today? I think NOT!

It just clearly states the inevitable, Serena will never win any GS again at least in this and next year. Her long absence in competitive tennis makes it very difficult for her to be at peak as she was before pre-injury. And its not about the knee hurting or anything. Its plainly her long lay-off and she needs a year or two to be in form again. She is no Superwoman you know. So quit raising the knee everytime She loses.

volley1
Jun 1st, 2004, 02:58 PM
How long until Serena gets her whole game together? Especially with that knee.

Is it the surface that eventually gives her trouble with the knee and will grass suit it better? She says she's healthy and fine, but the clay court season hasn't done Serena any favors.

Jen played better than Serena today - I can stand Serena losing to Jen because of who Jen is; a lesser ranked and quality player would have really bothered me. It was an important match for her. Undoubtedly it's an important match for anyone when it's a win, but how important is it that Serena lost and what does she need to do in the future, what does this loss mean for right now?
When she realizes she's a tennis player and not an actress. Serena suffers from a bad case of "Little Princess Sydrome".

Diesel
Jun 1st, 2004, 02:58 PM
Serena lost in 3 sets thats no disgrace especially since Capriati is one who can beat anyone on her day. :wavey:

It's not a disgrace to lose to Jennifer. I mentioned that in the initial thread. I'm not as disappointed about her loss as I am in any questions about her knee and how it affects her game, serves, going to the net, etc. Jennifer is a great player; she and Serena have a rivalry for a reason and the back and forth play is what makes it even better.

AjdeNate!
Jun 1st, 2004, 02:59 PM
I think Serena's biggest injury today was Jennifer's forehand. ;)

Diesel
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:00 PM
When she realizes she's a tennis player and not an actress. Serena suffers from a bad case of "Little Princess Sydrome".

I thought Serena was the princess because Venus was the queen? :confused:

Was Serena shooting for a movie on court that I didn't know about? Please fill me in.

cheo23
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:00 PM
Well I believe she hurt her knee more by Playin right after the Miami Tournament and goin to the Bausch & Lomb..she should have like rested 3 weeks..and prepared for the German Open & Italian OPen..U know what I'm sayin!

Stamp Paid
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:01 PM
The knee was a factor in the loss (mobility), but the knee had little to do with all the unforced errors. The knee was a minor concern in this match.

Diesel
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:02 PM
is the knee really a big factor in Serena's defeat today? I think NOT!

It just clearly states the inevitable, Serena will never win any GS again at least in this and next year. Her long absence in competitive tennis makes it very difficult for her to be at peak as she was before pre-injury. And its not about the knee hurting or anything. Its plainly her long lay-off and she needs a year or two to be in form again. She is no Superwoman you know. So quit raising the knee everytime She loses.


Geez, can a person ask a question around here?

If her long absence from tennis provides the inevitable, then you can go a step further and link it to her knee :rolleyes: which was my main concern in this thread.

Hey if her knee is actually a part of why she loses, aside from her opponent of course, I'm going to ask and talk about it. And for your info, this is my first ever main thread. Get over yourself please.

venus_envy
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:03 PM
I don't think Serena's knee is the problem. I think that she is off her game. She hasn't played the same this whole tournament. I don't know what the problem is, maybe she needs to focus more on tennis and leave the acting career for when she retires.

Diesel
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:04 PM
Well I believe she hurt her knee more by Playin right after the Miami Tournament and goin to the Bausch & Lomb..she should have like rested 3 weeks..and prepared for the German Open & Italian OPen..U know what I'm sayin!

She should have taken more time in between. Her scheduling was horrible - was it all to just get back into the proper rankings quickly? If so, it backfired.

bandabou
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:04 PM
Anybody whoīs saying that the knee wasnīt a factor obviosly didnīt watch the third-set...sure Jen deserved the win and played well, but Serena could barely serve....and there were many frozen shots of her clutching her knee after she served....so donīt come out and act like the knee wasnīt a factor.

I kinda agree with junex....Serenaīs still finding her game, but for a player still finding her game...must say her results arenīt too shabby. Still time for her to sort her game out..might be an eye-opener.

Mase
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:05 PM
Ok and even though Jen said her thigh was OK, dont act like thats not a factor. Just because she didnt hold it or grimace at all doesnt mean it didnt hurt. It was taped for some reason.

Nobody's Perfecc
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:06 PM
Well said, Helas. Capriati has been on fire the last month.

Is Serena's knee problem a chronic thing? She had surgery, what, nine months ago? I thought the purpose of the operation was so that he knee didn't impair her movement so much. Sorry, I'm just a disgruntled fan right now. I hope her knee is fine. It's a great effort to get to the quarterfinals when everyone, aside from the bookies, expected her to lose quite early. Wimbledon is coming up soon, and I'm not expecting anything.

AjdeNate!
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:06 PM
Ok and even though Jen said her thigh was OK, dont act like thats not a factor. Just because she didnt hold it or grimace at all doesnt mean it didnt hurt. It was taped for some reason.
True. Everyone hurts, it's how your able to cope with it.

Diesel
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:06 PM
The knee was a factor in the loss (mobility), but the knee had little to do with all the unforced errors. The knee was a minor concern in this match.

There certainly are mobility issues. Just as long as this isn't serious or becomes a recurring problem. I think she also needs to be patient; losing her patience can lead to the unforced errors and that helps to give it right away to the opponent.

Do you think grass will help or be better for her game?

Experimentee
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:07 PM
There were reports that Serena had trouble moving and lifting off because of knee soreness. I hope it wont be a recurring thing like Chanda's injury :sad:

Diesel
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:08 PM
Ok and even though Jen said her thigh was OK, dont act like thats not a factor. Just because she didnt hold it or grimace at all doesnt mean it didnt hurt. It was taped for some reason.

The only difference here is that I'm concerned about Serena and if this is going to be a more serious issue everytime she plays.

bandabou
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:10 PM
since when did athaneum become a Serena-fan?! No one is blaming the loss on the knee. Weīre just saying that her knee is struggling again....not taking away anything from Jen. Shouldnīt you be busy figuring out how despite her tout as the next big thing, your girl K-lina couldnīt get out of the first round, instead of instigating trouble?!

Diesel
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:11 PM
Well said, Helas. Capriati has been on fire the last month.

Is Serena's knee problem a chronic thing? She had surgery, what, nine months ago? I thought the purpose of the operation was so that he knee didn't impair her movement so much. Sorry, I'm just a disgruntled fan right now. I hope her knee is fine. It's a great effort to get to the quarterfinals when everyone, aside from the bookies, expected her to lose quite early. Wimbledon is coming up soon, and I'm not expecting anything.

Losses are bound to come. Serena can't win everything. As it's been said, she's not Superwoman. I hope the knee isn't a chronic thing and that if it does trouble her from time to time, that she actively does something about it to prevent it from acting up in matches. The surgery was for a reason, I don't get why it would still be bothering her now. I don't know what is best, a little layoff, or more match play??

Experimentee
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:12 PM
Ok and even though Jen said her thigh was OK, dont act like thats not a factor. Just because she didnt hold it or grimace at all doesnt mean it didnt hurt. It was taped for some reason.

Many players have precautionary taping :rolleyes:
Jen hasnt been out for 8 months because of her thigh.

Nemesis
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:13 PM
:sad: Serena ... Good luck at Wimbledon ...

Well done Jennifer ;) , but Serena was just off today ...

Mase
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:13 PM
But she was out like 3 for her back. We could go back and forth, its useless.

Experimentee
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:14 PM
There certainly are mobility issues. Just as long as this isn't serious or becomes a recurring problem. I think she also needs to be patient; losing her patience can lead to the unforced errors and that helps to give it right away to the opponent.

Do you think grass will help or be better for her game?

Clay is supposed to be a good surface for injuries :(
Hardcourt will be worse.

Diesel
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:14 PM
I don't think Serena's knee is the problem. I think that she is off her game. She hasn't played the same this whole tournament. I don't know what the problem is, maybe she needs to focus more on tennis and leave the acting career for when she retires.

Ah another acting critic. Well, true enough, Serena has outside interests, but she's been back on court from her surgery at a pretty constant level. I doubt any acting or outside interests have truly come into this equation in terms of her being off her game. No one can just come back from a layoff, look at Justine. It does take time, I'm however a bit put off by the amount of time and if the knee is a factor, why is it a factor even after surgery. Those are my questions and concerns.

Stamp Paid
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:16 PM
There certainly are mobility issues. Just as long as this isn't serious or becomes a recurring problem. I think she also needs to be patient; losing her patience can lead to the unforced errors and that helps to give it right away to the opponent.

Do you think grass will help or be better for her game?
I hope so. I hope that the serve alone can get her to the semis at least, but she is obviously still not in championship form.

Diesel
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:18 PM
But she was out like 3 for her back. We could go back and forth, its useless.


Okay, so Jen was out for 3 months for her back? And that has what to do with Serena? This isn't a competition on injuries here.

Please note, I'm not taking anything from Jennifer at all today. She beat Serena. Serena lost. Cool, I've taken it in, let it sit, and dealt with it. My concern is Serena plain and simple - when I read stuff about her knee it makes me anxious and worry about just how well she can do and how far she can go.

bandabou
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:20 PM
Ah another acting critic. Well, true enough, Serena has outside interests, but she's been back on court from her surgery at a pretty constant level. I doubt any acting or outside interests have truly come into this equation in terms of her being off her game. No one can just come back from a layoff, look at Justine. It does take time, I'm however a bit put off by the amount of time and if the knee is a factor, why is it a factor even after surgery. Those are my questions and concerns.


Exactly....it ainīt like sheīs losing to qualifiers out there....

Experimentee
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:21 PM
Okay, so Jen was out for 3 months for her back? And that has what to do with Serena? This isn't a competition on injuries here.

Please note, I'm not taking anything from Jennifer at all today. She beat Serena. Serena lost. Cool, I've taken it in, let it sit, and dealt with it. My concern is Serena plain and simple - when I read stuff about her knee it makes me anxious and worry about just how well she can do and how far she can go.

Its pretty sad that we cant discuss player's injuries without other people getting paranoid and thinking everyone's making up excuses :rolleyes:

Diesel
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:23 PM
I hope so. I hope that the serve alone can get her to the semis at least, but she is obviously still not in championship form.


You know, maybe Serena does need to improve her overall fitness level. We all know she's athletic and whatnot and can hang in with the best of them, but maybe she needs to work on endurance and fitness, aside from other aspects of her game. Unforced errors, lack of patience, serve, stuff like that can all be worked on and maybe somewhere in that equation is a solution for her lack of form.

Junex
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:23 PM
Geez, can a person ask a question around here?

If her long absence from tennis provides the inevitable, then you can go a step further and link it to her knee :rolleyes: which was my main concern in this thread.

Hey if her knee is actually a part of why she loses, aside from her opponent of course, I'm going to ask and talk about it. And for your info, this is my first ever main thread. Get over yourself please.

If i am not mistaken, Wimbledon 2003, Serena was already suffering with her knee and guess what she had the title, defeating "who" players.

Experimentee
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:24 PM
I also think the fact that Serena is coming back from a layoff was more of a factor in her losses than her acting. The people who criticise acting just seem jealous that Serena has the opportunity to do so many things others cant. If shes having fun why the hell not.

cheo23
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:24 PM
She should have taken more time in between. Her scheduling was horrible - was it all to just get back into the proper rankings quickly? If so, it backfired.
NO it wasn't to get to the proper rankings! she still had that protective ranking..but Yeah..after she won the Nasdaq Open which is a hardcourt event..she went straight to clay at the Bausch & Lomb; where she lost to Nadia Petrova in 2 sets quarters..then played the next week at the Family Circle Cup played just one match and withdrew from the tournament..I believe if she like rested after the Nasdaq Open at Miami..then not played until the German Open..her knee wouldn't have experienced any pain...U know what I'm sayin

Stamp Paid
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:25 PM
If i am not mistaken, Wimbledon 2003, Serena was already suffering with her knee and guess what she had the title, defeating "who" players.
Sorry, you're mistaken! The knee didn't become an issue until after Wimbledon!

tennisIlove09
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:26 PM
if the knee is giving her problems on clay (which is the softest surface), how will it hold on grass (which you have to get low?) or hard courts (which are already brutal on your body)?

bandabou
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:26 PM
You know, maybe Serena does need to improve her overall fitness level. We all know she's athletic and whatnot and can hang in with the best of them, but maybe she needs to work on endurance and fitness, aside from other aspects of her game. Unforced errors, lack of patience, serve, stuff like that can all be worked on and maybe somewhere in that equation is a solution for her lack of form.
It ainīt like Serena has been losing matches because she got tired out there...whatīs got the endurance do with anything here?!

cheo23
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:26 PM
so Basically!!! BAD SCheduliln!!!!!!!!!!!!! Poor SERENA!..but I already Knew J.CRap would win this Match even if the knee wasn't botherin SEReNa..SERENA is never ready in that 1st SET Between J.CRap..in most of their last 8 or 9 matches..J.Crap wins the 1st SET in a hurry..so I wasn't Surprised by their match 2day!

Diesel
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:29 PM
If i am not mistaken, Wimbledon 2003, Serena was already suffering with her knee and guess what she had the title, defeating "who" players.


Serena was suffering from the knee even way back then and after Wimby decided on getting the surgery. To think she played all that time with some form of the injury just made me like her even more. But the fact is, since the surgery the knee has at times acted up and she at times on a visible level isn't putting everything together. Again, where is the crime in even commenting or asking about all this?

Diesel
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:30 PM
It ainīt like Serena has been losing matches because she got tired out there...whatīs got the endurance do with anything here?!

I'm relating endurance relatively on a whole scheme of her game. She may not be getting tired, but if this knee is even a little issue, she needs to be able to deal with it and incorporate it into her game so she comes out the victor. If not endurance then she needs some sort of game plan where she can control the outcome - a la Guga.

Diesel
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:34 PM
NO it wasn't to get to the proper rankings! she still had that protective ranking..but Yeah..after she won the Nasdaq Open which is a hardcourt event..she went straight to clay at the Bausch & Lomb; where she lost to Nadia Petrova in 2 sets quarters..then played the next week at the Family Circle Cup played just one match and withdrew from the tournament..I believe if she like rested after the Nasdaq Open at Miami..then not played until the German Open..her knee wouldn't have experienced any pain...U know what I'm sayin

She should have gone easier with the tournaments and scheduling but sometimes with these things you don't know until it happens.

But I meant rankings in terms of overall rankings. She's slipped. She may get protected rankings but that's not her real world rankings and playing more tournaments would give her more points no?

Junex
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:37 PM
My main point is Serena is Serena, injured or not. What made her achieved the Serena Slam is her getting use to dominating all the WTA players. She was very competitive and had always had that hunger in crushing her opponents. Its her competitive edge. Right now she lost it and she had to find it pretty soon.

I just wonder why the knee was never brought up in the earlier rounds where she was winning, thats if ur really concern with the injury.

And i am not looking for trouble here. still its part of the discussion.

Diesel dnt get mad at me, Its bandabou who posted "the knee is a major concern". I am reeacting on his post not yours.

AjdeNate!
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:38 PM
since when did athaneum become a Serena-fan?! No one is blaming the loss on the knee. Weīre just saying that her knee is struggling again....not taking away anything from Jen. Shouldnīt you be busy figuring out how despite her tout as the next big thing, your girl K-lina couldnīt get out of the first round, instead of instigating trouble?!I've never not liked Serena. I'm just not as rabid a fan as some. And K-Lina has got nothing to do with this, so why bring her up? Defending your fave by slamming another's is really immature, childish, and boorish.

And how did I instigate trouble? By saying that everyone has to deal with their own body and/or pain? That's just true.

Junex
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:42 PM
Sorry, you're mistaken! The knee didn't become an issue until after Wimbledon!


Right! very right, the knee was never an issue until after Wimbledon because she was back then still winning.

But now i am sure, thanks to your post, she already had that injury before Wimbledon, in fact the plan of going under the blade was already scheduled even before Wimby started.

venus_envy
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:42 PM
My main point is Serena is Serena, injured or not. What made her achieved the Serena Slam is her getting use to dominating all the WTA players. She was very competitive and had always had that hunger in crushing her opponents. Its her competitive edge. Right now she lost it and she had to find it pretty soon.

I just wonder why the knee was never brought up in the earlier rounds where she was winning, thats if ur really concern with the injury.

And i am not looking for trouble here. still its part of the discussion.

Diesel dnt get mad at me, Its bandabou who posted "the knee is a major concern". I am reeacting on his post not yours.

I agree. The difference between Serena 2002 and Serena 2004 is attitude. Back in 2002, Serena was on a high and she exuded confidence. Nobody could beat her then. The same can be said of Venus in 2000-2001. The difference now is they don't command the fear factor like they did in the past. Venus and Serena used to be able to beat most players before they stepped on the court because nobody thought they had a chance to beat them. What's happening now is people are going on the court thinking that they can beat them.

Diesel
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:47 PM
My main point is Serena is Serena, injured or not. What made her achieved the Serena Slam is her getting use to dominating all the WTA players. She was very competitive and had always had that hunger in crushing her opponents. Its her competitive edge. Right now she lost it and she had to find it pretty soon.

I just wonder why the knee was never brought up in the earlier rounds where she was winning, thats if ur really concern with the injury.

And i am not looking for trouble here. still its part of the discussion.

Diesel dnt get mad at me, Its bandabou who posted "the knee is a major concern". I am reeacting on his post not yours.

Gotcha! (It can be really easy to get defensive at this board sometimes/Misunderstandings happen quite frequently).

I do agree a bit that she has lost that competitive edge. It's weird seeing Serena play sometimes because I do know she wants it but there is a spark that is missing - I won't say she's lost the desire for tennis, but circumstances are what they are. I hope babygirl can get to that level again regardless of injuries and whatnot. Attitude does make up for a lot and how a player looks at their chances and their play.

bandabou
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:49 PM
I'm relating endurance relatively on a whole scheme of her game. She may not be getting tired, but if this knee is even a little issue, she needs to be able to deal with it and incorporate it into her game so she comes out the victor. If not endurance then she needs some sort of game plan where she can control the outcome - a la Guga.

O.k....

Diesel
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:51 PM
I agree. The difference between Serena 2002 and Serena 2004 is attitude. Back in 2002, Serena was on a high and she exuded confidence. Nobody could beat her then. The same can be said of Venus in 2000-2001. The difference now is they don't command the fear factor like they did in the past. Venus and Serena used to be able to beat most players before they stepped on the court because nobody thought they had a chance to beat them. What's happening now is people are going on the court thinking that they can beat them.

Which is cool. I got tired of players feeling inferior to the sisters anyway. BUT do the sisters have the same belief in themselves. I know this started with a question about a knee, but it seems so much more is into this. Speaking specifically about Serena, we've touched on her attitude, does she believe she can be the Serena of 2003 or due to the emergence of other players and maybe even the surgery on the knee, Serena feels she can't do it?

cheo23
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:55 PM
Whatever..SERENA Still has the belief..I mean she did win her 1st Tournament back that Tier 1 NasDAq Open thrashin Elena Dementieva 1 & 1...she just didn't schedule herself good after that tournament..she's gotta work on her backhand shot because she just made tons of Unforced Errors in this Grand Slam..also REST up the KNee..who knows if she might participate at Wimbledon..but We'll SEE

cheo23
Jun 1st, 2004, 03:58 PM
She should have gone easier with the tournaments and scheduling but sometimes with these things you don't know until it happens.

But I meant rankings in terms of overall rankings. She's slipped. She may get protected rankings but that's not her real world rankings and playing more tournaments would give her more points no?
its True its not her REAL Rankings..but the French OPen committe placed SERENA #2 in this tournament..I doubt a Tournament would give her a seed of like 6 or 7..U know what I'm sayin...the majority of the players are cool with givin her a SEEd of 2 or 3

venus_envy
Jun 1st, 2004, 04:03 PM
Whatever..SERENA Still has the belief..I mean she did win her 1st Tournament back that Tier 1 NasDAq Open thrashin Elena Dementieva 1 & 1...she just didn't schedule herself good after that tournament..she's gotta work on her backhand shot because she just made tons of Unforced Errors in this Grand Slam..also REST up the KNee..who knows if she might participate at Wimbledon..but We'll SEE

But when she won that title, she beat a very week field. She didn't play any of the top players to get that title. The people at the top are more hungry and now have the belief that they can beat the Williams.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. It just means that both sisters are going to have to focus and dedicate themselves completely to the game if they want to remain on top.

bandabou
Jun 1st, 2004, 04:09 PM
My main point is Serena is Serena, injured or not. What made her achieved the Serena Slam is her getting use to dominating all the WTA players. She was very competitive and had always had that hunger in crushing her opponents. Its her competitive edge. Right now she lost it and she had to find it pretty soon.

I just wonder why the knee was never brought up in the earlier rounds where she was winning, thats if ur really concern with the injury.

And i am not looking for trouble here. still its part of the discussion.

Diesel dnt get mad at me, Its bandabou who posted "the knee is a major concern". I am reeacting on his post not yours.


Now that it acted.....second time that it acted up. Thatīs all....but it seems that when it gets a bid colder that it acts up.