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silvercharm
Feb 26th, 2002, 02:46 PM
O Canada!
by Joseph Sobran

When President Bush spoke of Iraq, Iran, and North Korea as "an axis of evil," some of us reached the hasty conclusion that he was nuts. After all, Iran and Iraq are next-door neighbors and bitter enemies. Didnít Bush know theyíd recently fought a long and exhausting war, with more than a million deaths? Didnít he know about their profound religious, cultural, and linguistic differences?

As for North Korea, itís an isolated, lunatic Communist regime at the other end of the worldís largest continent. The idea that itís on the same "axis" as either Iraq or Iran is daffy. Itís hardly in the same universe.

And what would an "axis of evil" be, anyway? Do wicked people say to each other: "Hey, why donít us evil guys get together!"?

"Evil" is an evaluation, not a substance or a quality. In the language of Thomistic philosophy, evil is a "privation of good." It has no positive existence.

And very few people, including mass murderers, think of themselves as evil. Itís always the other fellowís fault. Check out Stalin and Trotsky, or Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis.

So why is Bush talking this way? Well, we now have the answer. And we should have known it wasnít his idea.

Whenever a dimwittedóthat is to say, Republican president utters a striking phrase, itís only a matter of hours before a speechwriter steps out from behind the curtain to take a bow. Why should the ventriloquist let the dummy get all the credit?

In this case the ventriloquist was one David Frum, a Canadian journalist for whom "evil" means "enemy of Israel." The word "axis" was intended to equate the odd threesome of Iraq, Iran, and North Korea with the original Axis of Germany, Italy, and Japan. Never mind the minor distinction that the original Axis really was a working alliance, whereas the "axis of evil" trio arenít even on speaking terms.

Frumís wife, Danielle Crittenden, who is also a journalist, expressed her connubial pride at the phrase in an e-mail to friends, one of whom forwarded it to Slate, which published it over her objections.

So now we know the phrase "axis of evil" wasnít really coined by an American president. It wasnít even coined by an American! You have to watch those Canadians every minute. Theyíre always trying to get this country to fight their wars for them, just like their British cousins.

I realize that by saying this I may have made it impossible for me to take my next vacation in Quebec. I will probably be barred from Canada under their stringent hate-speech laws, and my rather innocuous remarks will probably fall under that heading in their hypersensitive minds. Iíll be accused of fomenting hatred against all Canadians.

Well, let the chips fall where they may. Canadians can go around calling other countries "evil," but if you suggest that they themselves have their little shortcomings, youíre a bigot. The double standard is flagrant.

I donít suggest that all Canadians are evil. Iíve known several who werenítóMarshall McLuhan, Northrop Frye, and the Montreal Canadiens, for example. But they have their own angle, and you have to deal with them with due wariness.

Canada is a lovely place to visit, but I wouldnít want to live there. For one thing, taxes are stupendous -- though it doesnít matter much, since the official currency is essentially counterfeit anyway. The value of the Canadian dollar shrinks so fast you need a stopwatch to time it.

On the other hand, Canada is a democracy and our only reliable ally in the region. Itís rich in natural resources and every year exports thousands of Newfie jokes, which are now considered hate crimes. Hate crimes! They are among Canadaís chief contributions to Western culture. True, the premise of the jokes is that the noble people of Newfoundland have IQs somewhere in the Bush range. But every country has its seething ethnic tensions, and humor can be a healthy release. The whole problem could be resolved by giving the Newfies their own homeland.

Call me a nativist, but Iím getting just a little weary of Canadians pouring into this country to dodge taxes, take our women, and get us into wars. Do they take us for a bunch of Newfies?

February 26, 2002

jas
Feb 26th, 2002, 03:02 PM
Whopps...I thought this was about the MEN WINNING THE GOLD....sorry...wrong thread...

silvercharm
Feb 26th, 2002, 03:07 PM
sorry jas...i'll give that gold medal performance as a tribute to you;) ...like disposable I'm a big hockey fan and a big Sakic fan (saw him play in the Pepsi Center many times)...i believe the gold meant more for Canada than it did for the U.S.--they need that likely since the NHL teams there are struggling financially...

Tracey
Feb 26th, 2002, 03:14 PM
silvercharm honey, you need a history lesson. You need to refresh about the second world war.( Fighting our wars for us???? )You are right, there are probably quite a few of your American vets who would be very upset with you at this time seeing as our Canadian soldiers fought BEFORE you and WITH you during WWll. Fight our wars for us? really? I'm afraid you have woken a sleeping giant with this thread. Oh yes and bottom line....whomever wrote the speech YOUR AMERICAN Administration ultimately chose the words. Take some time next time you are in Quebec and educate yourself about the country so that you can understand more and not feel so hostile towards us. I feel it necessary to also comment for all of the families all over Canada who currently have loved ones fighting for ALL of OUR freedom in Afganistan working shoulder to shoulder with your American military "GIVE YOUR HEAD A SHAKE" . Finally I will not take offence to your thread because I understand that you are ignorant as to much of Canadian history. Hypersensitive, naw just concerned that American people who don't really understand our country who claim to have so much knowledge are educated.

Barrie_Dude
Feb 26th, 2002, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by jas
Whopps...I thought this was about the MEN WINNING THE GOLD....sorry...wrong thread...



OMG!
Jas!
I Love You!
I Am So Glad You Are Here!



[center]:hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

jas
Feb 26th, 2002, 03:27 PM
"I believe the gold meant more for Canada than it did for the U.S."...??


Pardon, Silvercharm...? You may need to ask your Men and Women's Olympic Hockey Teams about that comment...

silvercharm
Feb 26th, 2002, 04:03 PM
jas--i was referring to the Canadian people...and congrats to the women as well

Crazy Canuck
Feb 26th, 2002, 04:05 PM
jas - I kind of have to agree that it mean more to the Canadian people than it would have to the American.
Perhaps maybe it didn't mean more to the individual players than it did for the other team -
But when is the last time you've seen Canadians be so nuttingly patriotic? I'm not sure I'll ever see it to that degree again - unless well - the leafs win the Stanley Cup lmao.

But seriously - from coast to coast people were flag waving, cheering, and partying all over the place.
If I'm not mistaken, the game drew the largest Canadian audience in TV history.

Do you think the effect inthe USA would have been to the same degree?

btw -
"Canada is a lovely place to visit, but I wouldnít want to live there. "

These were the authors words - but I assure you that you, he, and anyone else who shares similar views, aren't wanted up here anyhow.

Crazy Canuck
Feb 26th, 2002, 04:13 PM
Let me elaborate a little on the last bit -

I am not denying that there are hypocrits, and sick minded people that live in Canada. There are people like that everywhere.

But to suggest that we turn to the USA to fight all our wars, is both untrue and hypocritical.

Did the USA not turn to Brittain, Canada, and other countries for some much needed support after Sept. 11? Yet this guy has the balls to accuse us, of doing the same thing? Its almost laughable. Almost.

Furthermore, I seem to have vague recollection of the USA fighting a battle that wasn't theirs in Vietnam. Where was Canada? Oh thats right - not interested in fighting a battle that wasn't there.

Lets examine world war two now shall we - who was there first , Canada ot the US? The US only came in to the war years after the rest of us, after they were personally effected, then for the next half century have been trying to claim they won it :rolleyes:

That is - Canada has gone to war without the US, and not followed the US into their wars, on different accounts.

The writer of this article is clearly ignorant, as is anyone who buys the load of crap for everything it says.

If we're going to judge a country on what a few individuals have done, let me name a few - Timothy McVay, Jeffery Dommer, Charles Manson.

Scotso
Feb 26th, 2002, 04:17 PM
Becca, they aren't really wanted here either, but because we have to be so kind to Nazis like silvercharm, they're allowed here.

I totally agree with Tracey. This is the most ridiculous bullshit I have ever read. Canada is not the reason we're fighting those countries, American (Republican) greed is. It's because of people like silvercharm who want to stay head and shoulders above the rest of the world in terms of wealth no matter what the cost to others.

Tracy put it perfectly... "whomever wrote the speech YOUR AMERICAN Administration ultimately chose the words."

Crazy Canuck
Feb 26th, 2002, 04:23 PM
"Becca, they aren't really wanted here either, but because we have to be so kind to Nazis like silvercharm, they're allowed here. "

lol :) Well even if I say they aren't wanted here - Its Canada. Anyone can get into Canada ;)

No skills, no educations, no employment experience, criminal backgroud - Come to Canada! We accept anyone :rolleyes: :D

Scotso
Feb 26th, 2002, 04:33 PM
Sometimes I really feel like the United States and Canada would both benefit from restricting immigration like France and the United Kingdom do. And while it would help keep out a lot of undesirables, there are a lot of innocent people fleeing persecution and other problems and they have no where else to go. So, in order to help those people who really do deserve our help, we just have to put up with those that really don't.

silvercharm
Feb 26th, 2002, 04:36 PM
"Nazis like silvercharm"...proof of how diseased the liberal mind really is...i guess only Nazis disapprove of massive killing of Iraqi children; waging immoral and illegal wars; of having the State to wage coersive forse against its citizens; of valuing each individual life as an end to itself....hmmm, that a good definition of a Nazi

Crazy Canuck
Feb 26th, 2002, 04:39 PM
silvercharm - do you have a response for any of the stuff I said?

I dont' think I flat out insulted you - aside from snidely pointing out that I wouldn't want to live around people who don't want to live inCanada to begin with - and think that i had some very good points.

babsi
Feb 26th, 2002, 04:40 PM
Canada a good place to live is just one big myth. i lived there for 1 year and really i was so glad to get out of there and live somewhere which isn't like a worse version of the us.

and please get your facts right on the uk immigration policy, they let anyone in, it is an easy touch

Crazy Canuck
Feb 26th, 2002, 04:44 PM
babsi - same goes for you. No offense but if you hated it here so much, I'm glad you left.

The less people we have here who hate the country, the better off we all are.

But honestly - a worse version of the USA? PUH Lease!
I've been to the USA ona several occasions, and STRONGLY disagree on this.

OUr histories are different, we have different attitudes, different political systems, a dfferent way of looking at things.

While your entitled to your opinion - hearing - INCORRECTLY - that we hare USA jr all the time is a little tiresome.

When we start spelling colour, like "color" then I'm be suspect.

Untill then, I'm quite proud to be Canadian, and think I am one of the luckiest people in the world for living here.

babsi
Feb 26th, 2002, 04:50 PM
i am not going into why i was there but i did not live off the state at all, as long as am i able to support myself in all aspects i feel i can go anywhere i like.

it is my opinion that i did not like the country and certain aspects of it, for instance there is not a proper tv set-up for example all the stuff is off the american channels and that is what ctv and cbc carry.

nevermind that the medical coverage there is a joke and needs a major overhaul.

and just one more thing i phoned up in september to immigration regarding a matter, i was very civil on the phone and i couldn't believe the treatment i received, i was shouted out and the phone was put down, cos they were sick of people phoning regarding immigration matters...that would not happen in this country

i have been to the us for some times and i feel it is much better there than canada.

and when i walked through immigration after coming back home it was a very happy moment.

griffin
Feb 26th, 2002, 04:55 PM
To each their own - living in the UK would probably make me nuts, that doesn't mean some people can't be happy there.

Whenever I hear people talk about wanting to keep "undesirables" our of the US (or anywhere else), I think about the Irish side of my family, and the utter contempt most Yanks had for Irish immigrants back in their day. My great-great grandparents we considered little better than animals and their culture was thought of as foriegn (at best) by the "have's" and Pat Buchanans of the time who thought they would bring aobut the downfall of American civilization and culture. I can't even imagine what this country would be like today had they succeeded in turning the Irish away.

(hey Becca - I understand you're proud and all, but don't you get tired of being cooped up in an igloo? ;))

Scotso
Feb 26th, 2002, 04:57 PM
babsi... what is "this country" that you refer to?

Crazy Canuck
Feb 26th, 2002, 04:58 PM
babsi - I'm not trying to rag on you for not liking Canada- thats your opinion.
Much like I will say that I would never want to live in Brittain, and not expect to get hit on the head for it :)

"nevermind that the medical coverage there is a joke and needs a major overhaul. "

Just one note- the medical coverage is a joke? We practically have free health care! What the heck are you talking about?
If I get in a car accident at least they dont' search me for medial coverage first before taking me to the hospital first - or let me die of cancer because I can't afford treatment for it.

Canada has a phenomenal health care program - it has its obvious flaws, but I'll take what we have over the US anyday.

When Mike Harris suggested introducing a two tier health system to Ontario, similar to that of the USA, he was flamed for it. We wouldn't have it.

Furthermore, our student loans program is much better than that in the USA. I can go wherever I want to school in Canada, and get an apporpriate loan to do it. It also doesn't cost me 20000 a year to go to school. Unlike in the USA.

I'm not outright saying "the US is better than Canada" but you make it sound like Canada is far inferior to both the USA and Brittain. Which is well.... horse manure.

To each his own I guess.

Scotso
Feb 26th, 2002, 04:59 PM
griffin, when I say "undesirables" I don't mean poor people or whatever. I mean the people who's soul purpose in life is to go around spreading hate. I'm not an expert on the Irish immigration to America... but as far as I know they were not a hateful people and they were rather happy to be here.

Scotso
Feb 26th, 2002, 05:01 PM
And I agree with Becca about Canada's medical system. It's probably the best medical system in the world with regards to the affordability and quality of treatment.

The only country with totally free health care is probably Cuba... but personally I wouldn't want to be treated there.

babsi
Feb 26th, 2002, 05:04 PM
when all your papers are not sorted out and you need treatment you have to PAY for treatment that is not emergency treatment...i had something wrong with me last year and was not entitled to any free treatment whatsoever, every time i would have gone to the doctors i would have had to pay at least $50 a time and that is part of the reason i came back to receive free health care in the uk which i am legally entitled to.

if you were living here and you were in the same situation you would get the treatment free, the nhs has its flaws but it has obvious advantages like the free for all policy.

i think that it is safe to say that i will NEVER live in Canada or the US ever again.

i know this is about canada, but for me the uk is the best place to live in the whole world and i realise that now.

griffin
Feb 26th, 2002, 05:05 PM
Scotso - sorry, I was speaking more in general terms.

I'm no expert either, but the Irish weren't just hated because they were poor. They were hated because they were Irish, and I'm sure some of them were less then pleasant 24/7 and I'm sure some of them were pure trouble. Taken as a whole over time though, I think immigrants and immigration add more than they take.

Crazy Canuck
Feb 26th, 2002, 05:07 PM
babsi - I'm glad that your happy living the UK :)
Its much better than still trying to find a place to make you happy, but not being there yet.

We may not have the same feelings about Canada, but we have totally different experiences with it - I was born and raised here, so of course I loved it :)

Cheers :)

Scotso
Feb 26th, 2002, 05:08 PM
Which was exactly what I meant when I said we have to deal with the bad elements because of that fact.

silvercharm
Feb 26th, 2002, 05:16 PM
becca--i posted this article b/c it was funny & interesting at a time when Canada just brought home two gold medals in hockey...i personally don't have nothing against Canada with the warring issue but do agree with Sobran about the hate speech laws (which ARE fascist in nature) and its too socialist...but of course i'm for an unfettered economy...and hasn't Canada stopped the immigration of the Chinese? i had heard that was a problem but don't know much about it...and btw the Quebec Nordiques used to be one of my fav teams;)

disposablehero
Feb 26th, 2002, 06:00 PM
I DO NOT go to the US to start wars or dodge taxes. Maybe Silvercharm is upset because I stole some of his women on my many journeys down the Tower Ave strip in Superior. (Duluth bars suck, by and large)

Let's see, there was that waitress Tara and the now-defunct Cove. The other waitress Bobbi at the now-defunct Pacific Club.

But hey, that slutty girl Candy that used to hang out at Cove and at Carignans wasn't with me, that was my buddy Trevor's doing.

Ah, Duluth/Superior women, how I miss them so. :kiss:

silvercharm
Feb 26th, 2002, 11:58 PM
hmmm--the Duluth women were enough for me:D ...as for that cesspool called Superior he he I only attended the dirt track there for the sprint car races...let's see the most famous sprint car driver from Canada--Lynn Mcantosh, he was great but was badly injured at Red River in Fargo--ah the good 'ol days when all i had to worry about is what car race i was going to see next...and i think I knew that slutty girl named Candy :angel: ...Go Bulldogs!

NAT
Feb 27th, 2002, 01:42 AM
:rolleyes: Personally, I'd pay little attentions to crtiticisms of our country from somebody whose first such criticism is regarding television programming. Canada's healthcare system is a joke? Obviously somebody with very little knowledge.

Dawn Marie
Feb 27th, 2002, 02:59 AM
There are many NAZI like people on this board and and (IF) Silvercharm is a NAZI then come on guys he's not the only one. Why get so upset with him or her but steady be up other posters asses? Come on now lets all be consistant here shall we?:)

I love you all.. and go CANADA and USA!!:)

Crazy Canuck
Feb 27th, 2002, 03:12 AM
Dawn Marie - I can't speak for everyone in this thread - but the only reason I even bothered to reply was because the article was aimed at Canadians.

in fact, if I hadn't seen Canada in the title of the thread, I would likely not have even came in, as I'm not particularly interested in silvercharms views, as I am opposed to them.

For that reason , I tend not to get on other peoples asses for doing the same thing - cause I don't go into the threads.

its not a matter being inconsistent, its a matter of just not caring enough to give most of the threads the time of day.