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View Full Version : Mühlegg, Lazutina and Danilova disqualified !


GoDominiqu
Feb 24th, 2002, 09:03 PM
There we have our 'true champions'. :rolleyes:

Gold goes to Paruzzi and Ivanov.

Princess Fiona
Feb 24th, 2002, 09:08 PM
I just find this so hard to conceive - whyyy would these athletes do such a thing? *shaking head* Anyway, congrats to Paruzzi and Ivanov. :)

Lola
Feb 24th, 2002, 09:14 PM
I didn't want that happen. I've heard the news on TV, horrible...

GoDominiqu
Feb 24th, 2002, 09:14 PM
The whole cross-country-competition in SLC is now a complete joke ! :(

Mühlegg won 3 gold, Danilova 1 gold, Lazutina 1 gold and 2 silver. Almost all races are doubtful now. :sad:

ys
Feb 24th, 2002, 09:19 PM
Why wouldn't they strip them of all medals they earned these Olympics, that would be only fair if it is a regular doping case..

But medically, it is not only a question of doping. It is also a question of whether should competitions be held at such a high altitude? To compete on 1,800m you have to have a much higher blood cell count. I.e. when I am coming to highlands of that altitude, my count jumps nearly 10-20% within several days. But even living there my count will never match the average count of people who were born there. And other people don't have even that kind of ability to generate erythrocytes , and it has nothing to do with skiing or anything else, it differs from one body to another.

GoDominiqu
Feb 24th, 2002, 09:23 PM
ys, stop it. Doping is doping, no matter what. I'ts hard and I hate it as well, but one has to accept this.
Mühlegg will still have 2 gold and Larissa 2 silver, but they are worth zero.

Hurley
Feb 24th, 2002, 09:26 PM
Phew...someone said something before I had to. :D

ys, it's terrible that this happened...but it's no excuse.

The altitude may have made it seem like more of an excuse...but it isn't. It just isn't fair.

matthias
Feb 24th, 2002, 09:27 PM
yes, all 3 should lose all her medals!


how could lazutina start after her relay disqualifying? :confused:

GoDominiqu
Feb 24th, 2002, 09:31 PM
matthias, I think this is another case, relying on tests during practice.

I heard that Mühlegg will still have his other gold medals, as the test was only thursday this week.

Princess Fiona
Feb 24th, 2002, 09:31 PM
You'll have to excuse me here, but I just find it so hard to believe an athlete of Larissa Lazutina's calibre would cheat. This is so, so horrible.

GoDominiqu
Feb 24th, 2002, 09:33 PM
I agree, Franziska. She has won everything (hopefully fair), that's not worth it. Whole career has a negative tone now.

Iconoclast
Feb 24th, 2002, 09:39 PM
Lazutina is 37 years old. She annihilated the rest of the field in the 30K in the same manner as Johann Muehlegg did in the 50K.

ys
Feb 24th, 2002, 09:39 PM
You actually never know if it was the athlete who was cheating, but the final responsibility will certainly be theirs. Note that this substance is not a one from the list of banned substances, and it is no secret that ALL athletes take performance-enhancing substances ( after all, all vitamins can be considered ones). And whether a substance is officially banned or not makes all the difference in the world. And then it will be up to team's doctors to make a final decision when they prepare cocktails for sportsmen. I am absolutely sure that no sportsman would ever have taken a risk of taking anything banned. Usually, it's a team's doctor's mistake.

Princess Fiona
Feb 24th, 2002, 09:44 PM
I'm not disputing these findings, but it's so hard to believe three of the highest-profile athletes are guilty of the same offence, and again, a sportswoman with the standing of Lazutina. Maybe I need to do some more research. Didn't something like this happen with the Finnish xc team last year?

ys
Feb 24th, 2002, 09:55 PM
VivalaSeles,

take it easy.. There is nothing wrong about performance enhancing drugs . Recently, with all advances of biochemistry it is becoming really difficult to distinguish what should be banned and what shouldn't be. Normally, they ban performance enhancing drugs with negative, potentially harmful side effects. Keep in mind, that the drugs that are reason for DQing on these Olympics could be a reason for someone winning gold medal in previous ones , you never know. And at the end, as a rule, I repeat, it is a team's doctor's mistake and athletes are simply victims of that mistake too.

Iconoclast
Feb 24th, 2002, 10:13 PM
NESP is a newly-developed drug which is intended for seriously ill people. It has harmful side-effects, can lead to heart problems.

The athletes are not ignorant. They know what they are taking. This is not vitamin pills, but hardcore drugs.

The skiers should be stripped of all their medals.

Canada's Beckie Scott can rightfully demand a gold medal.

Gallofa
Feb 24th, 2002, 10:40 PM
Darn, I just *knew* he had to be on something. I was actually talking to my friends about how he was probably doped and was going to get caught... cuz what Muhlegg did was not just super-human, it was of the on-drugs-super-human category.

I am saddened that he didn't win cleanly, and even though I haven't followed the other cases, I agree with VivalaSeles about Muhlegg, he should be asked to return *all* of the medals.

Iconoclast
Feb 24th, 2002, 10:47 PM
Though, there's not a thin line between vitamin pills and NESP. It's more like the difference between mineral water and crack.

NESP (Novel Erythropoietin Stimulating Protein) is a pumped-up version of EPO. A variant which is supposed to be 10 times as effective.

Gallofa
Feb 24th, 2002, 10:58 PM
Hi VivalaSeles! :D how are you? I think I've told you before, but I love your signature!

The Olympics are so much more than a bunch of athletes competing at the same time in different sports. Taking drugs taints everything that the Olympics mean, not just the competition... I don't really understand how these sanctions work, some people seem to get away with almost no punishment and others are suspended forever? what logic is there in making them give back just one medal? I think sticking to the "list" of drugs and sanctions is actually a draw back, it's hindering the process, because people play with the fact that "if it's not in the list I can take it" - they should get rid of those limitations in the COI or wherever it is that they set up the rules, so that they can truly punish and erradicate doping.

Kuilli
Feb 25th, 2002, 12:14 AM
This is really sad. :(
I do agree that Mühlegg, Lazutina and Danilova should be stripped of all their medals, and they should be suspended.

Just too bad that the olympics ended with the doping scandal. :( But, that's just part of the sport unfortunately. Some athletes cheat and some get caught. I doubt that the doping control would ever get to the point that all the doping users will get caught, but as long as there is some improvement, I am happy. And, I honestly don't believe that it's only the team doctors fault. If the athlete is using doping, he or she knows about it. There are of course exceptions. The one what comes to mind first is that Romanian(?) gymnast in Sydney (can't remember her name), who took the cold medicine that the team doctor subscribed. And, the sanctions need to be enforced equally for everybody. I agree with Bea that some athletes get away with almost no punishment. :mad: That is just ridiculous!

Lola
Feb 25th, 2002, 03:58 AM
Kuilli, Muehlegg will be suspended for about 2 years! That's what they told us today on TV.
And I think the same will happen to the russians.

Lola
Feb 25th, 2002, 04:08 AM
Originally posted by Kuilli
This is really sad. :(
I do agree that Mühlegg, Lazutina and Danilova should be stripped of all their medals, and they should be suspended.

Just too bad that the olympics ended with the doping scandal. :( But, that's just part of the sport unfortunately. Some athletes cheat and some get caught. I doubt that the doping control would ever get to the point that all the doping users will get caught, but as long as there is some improvement, I am happy. And, I honestly don't believe that it's only the team doctors fault. If the athlete is using doping, he or she knows about it. There are of course exceptions. The one what comes to mind first is that Romanian(?) gymnast in Sydney (can't remember her name), who took the cold medicine that the team doctor subscribed. And, the sanctions need to be enforced equally for everybody. I agree with Bea that some athletes get away with almost no punishment. :mad: That is just ridiculous!

The Romanian gymnast's name is ANDREEA RADUCAN. She caught a sore-throat and had fever in Sydney, therefore her doctor gave her a medicine which you can usually take by high fever. It's an antibiotika. But it contained a substance which is not allowed in order to be 100% clean. The doctor knew that, but he wanted to cure Andreea faster in order to get her well for the competition. The consequences...Andreea has been taken away the gold medal and the doctor has been arrested in Romania. There has been a trial against him and he declared it had been his fault....

Mitch01
Feb 25th, 2002, 04:12 AM
Originally posted by Lola
Kuilli, Muehlegg will be suspended for about 2 years! That's what they told us today on TV.
And I think the same will happen to the russians.

Good, I am glad they are cracking down on these athletes that are cheating their way to the top. I mean, I know Lazutina has been a top skier for years, I just hope that she hasn't been doing this for all of these years. They know what they are doing, it's not the result of 'team doctors' all the time.

And whoever mentioned Beckie Scott...well she's gonna have more arguments now to back up everything she says about the fact that still sports aren't totally fair because people are still often using performance enhancing drugs. I like her outspoken anti-doping attitude! Plus, I love her in competition...I've never seen such a look of intensity and determination on any other athlete's face before, as she did when she won her bronze medal by like a couple of inches!

thefreedesigner
Feb 25th, 2002, 08:32 AM
Can I just add a little voice here?

I heard that this new drug in question isn't on the IOC's official list of banned substances (what with it being so new and all)....

It's not a defence of what these athletes did, because they absolutely knew they were gaining an unfair advantage over their opponents, but has anyone else heard this?

irma
Feb 25th, 2002, 09:42 AM
It`s on the list, epo is on it and stuf that does the same with your body and that`s this!

I don`t understand why people dope, if you know that you win because you took stuf, how can you feel happy then?:confused:

Iconoclast
Feb 25th, 2002, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by thefreedesigner
Can I just add a little voice here?
I heard that this new drug in question isn't on the IOC's official list of banned substances (what with it being so new and all)....


As Irma said, while it's not explicitly mentioned, there's a ban on EPO and "similar substances". NESP - or Darbepoetin - is derived from EPO. It does the same thing - stimulates growth of red blood cells - but demands less injections for the same effect because it is inherently more potent.

This is a drug intended for cancer patients receiving chemotherapy and people with kidney failure. No sane, healthy human being would use this drug well-meaningly.

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Feb 25th, 2002, 12:38 PM
The fact is, they were caught, enough said.

Very disappointing, because this was the most "clean" Olympics in years until the last day. And Muhlegg was awesome! Now I know why he did so well.

SerenasMelons
Feb 25th, 2002, 09:19 PM
Cross Country is a sport where doping would GREATLY help an athlete, becuase it adds endurance. In Raducaan's case, it was dumb that she was stripped of a medal, but rules are rules. Doping isn't going to help a gymnast, where the sport is more about skills and nerves. That is opposite for cross country.