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GANGSTABACKHAND!
Apr 26th, 2004, 03:42 PM
...VENUS'S SECOND SERVE LATELY?? It looks like she is making a lot more first serves, but hitting them in the 110's in stead of the 120's, and moving them around the box more. I wondered why she did not hit her first serve down the middle more often, looks like she is doing that now. Her second serves are consistantly above 80mph. I'm not sure what the fed cup stats were, but she does not double fault as much as she used to. Good signs for her! Venus needs to keep doing this, consistancy will come after a little time. I love what i'm seeing from venus this will definately help her in the immediate future. GO VENUS!! I'M STILL VERY PROUD OF YOU!!

V-MAC
Apr 26th, 2004, 03:49 PM
well venus did say after her 2nd round match against reeves in Charleston that she was working on new elements in her game in that match.I guess she was referring to her serve. :) glad to see that her whole game is coming together right now (at last!!). She should be in peak form by the French Open :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Knizzle
Apr 26th, 2004, 03:52 PM
She was hitting her second serves between 85-95 most times at Charleston. She has really worked on that within the past year. Now her first serve is better because of that. The pressure is off some on her second serve because she strives to make it a weapon. When you don't worry about hitting a second serve, it takes pressure off your first serve.

Paneru
Apr 26th, 2004, 03:58 PM
Williams feels like her reputation took a bit of hit in Miami, when Dementieva climbed all over her fluttering second serve. When Venus was at her peak, she cracked 95-mph plus second serves that truly bit. If she's to be a top player again, she needs to rediscover that weapon in a big way.

"The match against Dementieva, my second serve was really off," she said. "I said, 'Never again, V. If your going to miss, you're going to miss going crazy, doing it all.' It is a weapon."

With each passing year, most players mentally mature and see their games in different lights. Venus prefers not to dwell on her glory years of 2000 and 2001, or on her stint as No. 1. But she's realizes that she was a more aggressive player then and was more confident going for her shots at closing time, but she likes the 2004 version of V a whole lot more.

"That's was a different time and I'm actually a better player now," Williams said. "I look at those tapes and I know I could beat [myself then]. I just have to get into the shape to do it."

:cool:

esquímaux
Apr 26th, 2004, 04:00 PM
It looks to me like she's keeping he head up on her serves as of late. She's been known to cock it to the side :lol:

tennisIlove09
Apr 26th, 2004, 04:17 PM
Because she's finally going back to the 2001 days. Who knows what happened between the 01 Open and now (hmm...well, I think we all know what happened)

Paneru
Apr 26th, 2004, 04:24 PM
Because she's finally going back to the 2001 days. Who knows what happened between the 01 Open and now (hmm...well, I think we all know what happened)

And that is...? :smash:

Foot_Fault
Apr 26th, 2004, 04:38 PM
Because she's finally going back to the 2001 days. Who knows what happened between the 01 Open and now (hmm...well, I think we all know what happened)
I disagree. I totally see the Different Elements of Vee's game and that is (finding a way to end the point at net). Not a serve and vollyer, more of a closer, Deep, Apporach, Volly seems to be the game she's looking for and constructing. She's a baseliner, but she's realizing shortballs will NOT survive on her court. The Venus of 2000-2002 wanted to beat you from the back of the court, much flashier and power tennis. Venus of 2004 have been mixing up the pace, getting Lower on her shots, and Placing the ball where she want it where the anticipation is spot on(most of the time). I've been watching her 2nd serve speeds and yeah...Mid 80's and 90's. She's totally evolved her game. her footwork and speed has and will always be there, her Approach game has picked up considerably.

Keep striving and moving forward Queen V!

Knizzle
Apr 26th, 2004, 04:44 PM
Because she's finally going back to the 2001 days. Who knows what happened between the 01 Open and now (hmm...well, I think we all know what happened)
Shut up about the 2001 days. She was better in 2002 and 2003 then she was in 2001 and she is EVEN better in 2004. She lost in 2002 and 2003 because Serena played BETTER!! Wrap your psyche around that fact.

tennisIlove09
Apr 26th, 2004, 04:47 PM
Shut up about the 2001 days. She was better in 2002 and 2003 then she was in 2001 and she is EVEN better in 2004. She lost in 2002 and 2003 because Serena played BETTER!! Wrap your psyche around that fact.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: for the last time, had Serena beaten Venus while Venus was playing at her best fine, Serena is better. But Venus wasn't any where near her best against Serena. Go figure.

And if you think Venus was serving BETTER in 02/03 then you haven't seen her 00/01 days.

DeDe4925
Apr 26th, 2004, 04:51 PM
I disagree. I totally see the Different Elements of Vee's game and that is (finding a way to end the point at net). Not a serve and vollyer, more of a closer, Deep, Apporach, Volly seems to be the game she's looking for and constructing. She's a baseliner, but she's realizing shortballs will NOT survive on her court. The Venus of 2000-2002 wanted to beat you from the back of the court, much flashier and power tennis. Venus of 2004 have been mixing up the pace, getting Lower on her shots, and Placing the ball where she want it where the anticipation is spot on(most of the time). I've been watching her 2nd serve speeds and yeah...Mid 80's and 90's. She's totally evolved her game. her footwork and speed has and will always be there, her Approach game has picked up considerably.

Keep striving and moving forward Queen V!
I totally agree with Foot Fault here, her game has evolved. She doesn't look like the old Venus on court, but a new and improved Venus. I think Serena better watch out, because Venus has a lot of confidence and is doing a lot more with her game. She has more variety, she is more aggressive in coming to the net, her volleys are almost textbook perfect, her second serves are deep in the box and have a kick, she is getting her first serves in a whole lot more and she has cut down on her UFE's considerably. She looks great. :eek:

Pureracket
Apr 26th, 2004, 04:52 PM
I honestly feel that Venus played the role of Big Sister and chief Serena cheerleader in '02. From that infamous bag incident where Venus had to withdraw from the IO to Venus' lackadaisacal play in the FO(=) final against Serena. We won't even talk about that semifinal that she lost to Serena in Miami that year. (Venus completely phoned that one in too).

Wimbledon(=) of '02 is when they started playing for both to win. Serena was better there, @ the USOpen and @ the Aussie Open. I'm sure Venus would've won @ Wimbledon(=) last year if she had not been injured.

tennisIlove09
Apr 26th, 2004, 04:55 PM
I honestly feel that Venus played the role of Big Sister and chief Serena cheerleader in '02. From that infamous bag incident where Venus had to withdraw from the IO to Venus' lackadaisacal play in the FO(=) final against Serena. We won't even talk about that semifinal that she lost to Serena in Miami that year. (Venus completely phoned that one in too).

Wimbledon(=) of '02 is when they started playing for both to win. Serena was better there, @ the USOpen and @ the Aussie Open. I'm sure Venus would've won @ Wimbledon(=) last year if she had not been injured.
:worship: :worship: :worship: (although I disagree about the OZ...Venus was the better player throughout the event, but I don't think she could prevent Serena from that history)

Knizzle
Apr 26th, 2004, 04:56 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: for the last time, had Serena beaten Venus while Venus was playing at her best fine, Serena is better. But Venus wasn't any where near her best against Serena. Go figure.

And if you think Venus was serving BETTER in 02/03 then you haven't seen her 00/01 days.
Venus doesn't play every match at her best if you hadn't noticed. No one does. It's not like Serena played spectacular tennis against Venus everytime. I watched everything unfold for Venus in 00/01. You are not the "Ultimate Venus Williams Fan" like you act like around here. Other people know Venus just as well or better than you. Venus served fine in 02 and 03 before her injury. I agree she served a bit above that level in 01, especially at Wimbledon.

tennisIlove09
Apr 26th, 2004, 04:59 PM
in 2000/2001 (especially 01) Vee's second serve was not a weakness. It just wasn't. Then after the 01 Open, her second serve is a weakness??? Clearly something happened. The only logical explaination is the win over Serena. More proof is how she played (or lack there of) against Serena for the rest of the year.

Pureracket
Apr 26th, 2004, 05:02 PM
Well, the two weeks that Venus has scheduled off gives me mixed feelings. I'm glad that she will be able to take care of any injuries she may have and be able to train even harder; however, Venus is the type that seems to need steady play in order to find her rhythm and confidence. Two weeks off may not help this.

Knizzle
Apr 26th, 2004, 05:03 PM
in 2000/2001 (especially 01) Vee's second serve was not a weakness. It just wasn't. Then after the 01 Open, her second serve is a weakness??? Clearly something happened. The only logical explaination is the win over Serena. More proof is how she played (or lack there of) against Serena for the rest of the year.
Her second serve wasn't a weakness because hardly no one moved in to attack it. Until Serena became more consistent and attacked it and everyone followed suit. Of course there are emotional issues playing Serena. Serena suffers from the same thing against Venus, but she is better able to pull it together at the right time. Therefore she is BETTER in their matchups.

tennisIlove09
Apr 26th, 2004, 05:04 PM
Keep telling yourself that :) :wavey: I'm out!

Knizzle
Apr 26th, 2004, 05:05 PM
Well, the two weeks that Venus has scheduled off gives me mixed feelings. I'm glad that she will be able to take care of any injuries she may have and be able to train even harder; however, Venus is the type that seems to need steady play in order to find her rhythm and confidence. Two weeks off may not help this. She likes to go to the US (home) and practice before the French for whatever reason. I don't think it will affect her play.

Knizzle
Apr 26th, 2004, 05:07 PM
Keep telling yourself that :) :wavey: I'm out!
I don't want to be like you. You have told yourself over and over again that Venus tanked to Serena so much that your are obsessed with it.

Foot_Fault
Apr 26th, 2004, 05:08 PM
Well...
I have to agree with some posters on a few issues about Vee vs. Ree.

2002 Nasdaq-100 Open. Venus Gave that match away. Why? (MY PERSONAL OPINION: Serena was shooting her diary for MTV, Vee was her semifinal opponent, it sure would look DAMN good if she finish the diary off with a Victory and i feel Vee aided in that happening at least a walk through to the finals).

2002 FO- Serena played very well till Jennifer. Venus played well through the fortnight. I got the feeling Vee was in a place where she felt that, the FO was in her grasp, a Final will happen again, I want my sister to gain the Glory, and she did.

WB 2002- All out Fight....Serena has the confidence Vee as well, Serena just played Better.

USO 2002- Same Fight, Venus wanted it, Serena just played much better..Vee's serve left her.

AUS 2003- Another Fight, Vee played very well the entire fort...But Vee Mentally Destructed and UE's crept in b/c she was OUTPLAYING Serena. Serena just steady the course and Vee's errors sent her to a loss.

WB 2003- Everyone one could see the Fired up Venus, in EVERY MATCH leading to the finals, this was the first tournament where Vee's Winners were higher than her UE's. The semi's broke my heart b/c I felt Vee was playing the best tennis out there and was going to win the tournament, Although she played well in the final she knew that if she didn't do it in Two, that Serena was going to win b/c she couldn't last out there with Serena with half a serve.

tennisIlove09
Apr 26th, 2004, 05:19 PM
Well...
I have to agree with some posters on a few issues about Vee vs. Ree.

2002 Nasdaq-100 Open. Venus Gave that match away. Why? (MY PERSONAL OPINION: Serena was shooting her diary for MTV, Vee was her semifinal opponent, it sure would look DAMN good if she finish the diary off with a Victory and i feel Vee aided in that happening at least a walk through to the finals).

2002 FO- Serena played very well till Jennifer. Venus played well through the fortnight. I got the feeling Vee was in a place where she felt that, the FO was in her grasp, a Final will happen again, I want my sister to gain the Glory, and she did.

WB 2002- All out Fight....Serena has the confidence Vee as well, Serena just played Better.

USO 2002- Same Fight, Venus wanted it, Serena just played much better..Vee's serve left her.

AUS 2003- Another Fight, Vee played very well the entire fort...But Vee Mentally Destructed and UE's crept in b/c she was OUTPLAYING Serena. Serena just steady the course and Vee's errors sent her to a loss.

WB 2003- Everyone one could see the Fired up Venus, in EVERY MATCH leading to the finals, this was the first tournament where Vee's Winners were higher than her UE's. The semi's broke my heart b/c I felt Vee was playing the best tennis out there and was going to win the tournament, Although she played well in the final she knew that if she didn't do it in Two, that Serena was going to win b/c she couldn't last out there with Serena with half a serve.
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

No obsession Knizzle, just the truth

tennisIlove09
Apr 26th, 2004, 05:20 PM
ok, really I have to go now... :wavey:

Ballbuster
Apr 26th, 2004, 05:27 PM
Keep telling yourself that :) :wavey: I'm out!

beat it already!

Serena was Just plain Better!

End of discussion. You act like you live in their household. Serena seriously raised her game and Venus didn't have an answer.

Paneru
Apr 26th, 2004, 05:35 PM
Goodness! :angel:

Such a positive thread started and all
of the sudden turns into a bitching war! :cool:

What's done is done, it's all in the past!

Vee's second serve has improved, as well as the consistency
in her forehand, lot less errors. She also feels Vee of today is better
then Vee of 00'/01' and I agree(she has more variety and is wiser
about it all! Someone on another board posted that Vee's future
Slams are at the net and I couldn't agree more!). All she has to do is
to get in the shape to do it and execute as she has said!

Go Venus! :worship:
The Queen is ready to play! :bounce:

Venus Forever
Apr 26th, 2004, 05:48 PM
I disagree with one statement.

I do notice that she is hitting the first serve a tad slower, but her percentage hasn't gone up, and it hasn't gone up consistently. Maybe one match she was in the 70%, but most of the time this year, Venus has still been in the 50-60% range with the first serve. She did that when she was booming them in at 120+, I say she just continues to go for those 120+ bombs because the reduction in speed is not really helping her get them in more.

I do notice an improvement in the second serve though.

Nobody's Perfecc
Apr 26th, 2004, 06:29 PM
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

No obsession Knizzle, just the truth
Biased speculation does not equal the truth. Until I hear the words from Venus and Serena, it's all conjecture.

DeDe4925
Apr 26th, 2004, 09:10 PM
Well, the two weeks that Venus has scheduled off gives me mixed feelings. I'm glad that she will be able to take care of any injuries she may have and be able to train even harder; however, Venus is the type that seems to need steady play in order to find her rhythm and confidence. Two weeks off may not help this.
Help what?? :confused:
Have you guys been watching Fed Cup? If not, I guess you can't appreciate how far Venus' game has come from AO '04. Everything is clicking on all cylinders right now. Her technique is very good and she has cut down on the DF's and UFE's considerably. She looks really comfortable on clay and I'm with whoever started that thread a while back that Venus should be a strong contender for the FO this year.

oddkayla
Apr 27th, 2004, 07:54 AM
I havent seen any of the clay matches this year so I will take your word for it.

One thing I do know is that Venus 2000/01 version has a very good second serve. Watch the Acura Classic 01 matches if you can. Venus against Lindsay and Monica, semi and final, that thing was popping. Her forehand was superb. She just did not come to net. Now both her Wimbledon crowns she was there a lot.

Something happened that ruined the second serve and the forehand, and I'm glad to hear she is working on those and adding still more elements to her game. I hope all starts to click. I cant wait for the shock in her opponents who have been trash-talking her.