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View Full Version : Who's the best player on grass, Serena or Venus?


tennisjunky
Apr 24th, 2004, 07:57 AM
It seems like most people think Venus is the dominate player on grass? I've heard that said more than once, so I wanted to see who most people really thought was the better grass player. I think on hardcourts and clay Serena has the definite edge, but I'm not sure about grass. IMO, I still think she is favored over Venus on grass, even if Venus is slightly better at the net, I think Serena's second serve is the one big advantage that sways my vote to her.

CanadianGuy
Apr 24th, 2004, 08:32 AM
Venus, but neither one will ever come close to Martina Narvatilova:)
But just to be compared to Martina is an honor itself:D (both great)

Glenn
Apr 24th, 2004, 08:35 AM
Serena is better on any surface at the moment.

tennisjunky
Apr 24th, 2004, 09:04 AM
Venus, but neither one will ever come close to Martina Narvatilova:)
But just to be compared to Martina is an honor itself:D (both great)
Yeah Martina is the greatest on grass, no argument from me on that. But I do think that Serena (and Venus if there was no Serena,) could definitely come close to challenging what Martina was able to do on grass. Think about it, who do you see really standing in Serena's way on this surface? She can have a really great history at this slam for a long time, if she plays a long time.

dreamgoddess099
Apr 24th, 2004, 09:17 AM
Hello, Venus has been in the Wimbledon finals for the past four years. Serena can play on grass too, but Venus is better.

SJW
Apr 24th, 2004, 09:39 AM
does it matter? these Venus vs Serena battles do get tired...and annoying when you try to be a fan of both

bandabou
Apr 24th, 2004, 09:56 AM
I think theyīre pretty even on grass and yeah these debates get tired.

pav
Apr 24th, 2004, 10:18 AM
You would have to roll them one up each and watch the results as even closely- related people can react differently to a puff of the Ganga it's the only way to find out which plays best on grass!

Frooty_Bazooty
Apr 24th, 2004, 10:37 AM
maybe im crazy but i doubt Wimbledon would give players hash before they go on to play, unless i've misunderstood the meaning of "grass" tournament :eek:

Chunchun
Apr 24th, 2004, 10:58 AM
I think Venus is better

tennisjunky
Apr 24th, 2004, 11:12 AM
does it matter? these Venus vs Serena battles do get tired...and annoying when you try to be a fan of both
The question wasnt meant as any kind Venus and Serena battle, its an honest question that I was interested in hearing peoples thoughts on. To me its a no-brainer, I think Serena. But Ive heard lots of people say Venus and even some Serena fans say Venus as well so I wanted someone to explain why they think the way they do. To me it's like asking who's better on grass Steffi Graf or Martina Navaratilova. You could actually build a case for each player. In this case I would say that Steffi was equal to Venus, while Serena is equal to Martina when it comes to the grass courts. Grass courtrs reward power and players that have power combined with quickness and an aggressive game are usualy the best grass court players. I honestly dont see what edge Venus has over Serena, besides being a little better at the net, that would give her the advantage over Serena on grass.

This is a tennis board for goodness sake, and just because people are fans of both doesn't mean that we cant ask questions and compare the two. And just because youre a fan of both doesn't mean that you cant have an opinion either, unless you simply think theyre equal in every aspect.

Brαm
Apr 24th, 2004, 11:33 AM
Wow, the poll's at 33,3% - 33,3% - 33,3% now :)

azza
Apr 24th, 2004, 11:43 AM
Els :)

charmedRic
Apr 24th, 2004, 02:24 PM
V, simply V.

VRULES
Apr 24th, 2004, 02:29 PM
I would say Venus is lightly better than Rena if not they are equal on this surface and on Hard, but Rena is slightly better on clay, but Venus could win some from her because she isn't a slouch on clay either. On grass topspin dosn't help as much as on clay and harcourt, thats why claycourters have problems and Kim does to.. The grass dilutes the bounce, therefore Serena's second serve is brought down into peoples strike zone, whereas Venus's slice gets lower and skids more, actually making her second serve more effective, plus Venus hits slightly flatter, comes in more and I think knows how to use a grass court better, where Rena knows how to use a clay court better, and then it equals out on hardcourts.

I will admit Rena is the most talented female tennis player ever (laj) but I don't get where she is that much better at hard courts, clay yes, the angles, and how Venus is better on grass, the net (that is a hude difference by the way, not a small one). The time the sisters have been on tour the difference was the mentality of them. Serena was more negative until 2002, and then Venus has been more negative since, but I think if both got over it then it would provide amazing matches on any surface, because they are the two most powerful playes of tour, and can hit and retrieve winners for either of them. Just my honest opinion!!

Stephieva
Apr 24th, 2004, 02:32 PM
me thinks vee is betta on grass. vee can win wimbledon this year.

tennisIlove09
Apr 24th, 2004, 02:40 PM
Venus. 4 straight finals; should have won three of four because last year she lost due to injury, not a better player (as was the case in 2002...Serena was unbeatable that year)

7~ŒLęV3ņ―
Apr 24th, 2004, 02:46 PM
Venus Williams

LindsayRocks89
Apr 24th, 2004, 02:47 PM
Miss Venus Williams

Experimentee
Apr 24th, 2004, 03:06 PM
Serena of course. Even though Venus was injured in the Wimbledon final Serena was outplaying her and would have won anyway. Serena thrashed all her opponents including Henin 6-3 6-2, while Venus lost sets to Davenport and Kim.
In the 2002 Wimby final Serena clearly outplayed Venus while the latter was not injured. I dont know how anyone can possibly say Venus is better than Serena on any surface. Obviously all just biased Venus fans.

Experimentee
Apr 24th, 2004, 03:08 PM
Maybe Venus WAS the better grass player before 2002, but thats clearly not the case anymore, and hasnt been for a few years.

victory1
Apr 24th, 2004, 03:09 PM
Serena of course. Even though Venus was injured in the Wimbledon final Serena was outplaying her and would have won anyway. Serena thrashed all her opponents including Henin 6-3 6-2, while Venus lost sets to Davenport and Kim.
In the 2002 Wimby final Serena clearly outplayed Venus while the latter was not injured. I dont know how anyone can possibly say Venus is better than Serena on any surface. Obviously all just biased Venus fans.
I think Serena is better on grass now, but Venus is better overall (4 year straight in the finals). That has to count for something.

bandabou
Apr 24th, 2004, 03:13 PM
plus I donīt think Venus has been as dominating on grass as Serena has been the last couple of years. Serena isnīt just winning, she is destroying quality opponents, making them look like amateurs.

Legends
Apr 24th, 2004, 03:20 PM
Serena of course. Even though Venus was injured in the Wimbledon final Serena was outplaying her and would have won anyway. Serena thrashed all her opponents including Henin 6-3 6-2,
.
Henin did not show up for that match, i expect Serena would still have won but it would not have been a thrashing.


In the 2002 Wimby final Serena clearly outplayed Venus while the latter was not injured. 1.go check Venus fastest and average first serve speed for that match, 2. go check the same stats for the preceding 6 matches and 3.then go and check the transcript of Oracene's LIVE BBC interview about why she knew Serena would win 02.




while Venus lost sets to Davenport ....

and Serena lost sets to Capriati- let's not forgot and.....


...and Kim.
well let's call that a match of two halves 'b/4 rain and a/f rain' or 'injury pain/panic' vs injury resignation.

then let's ask why Serena dropped her second set, of the tournament, to an injured Venus.

I dont know how anyone can possibly say Venus is better than Serena on any surface. Obviously all just biased Venus fansperhaps it is not only Venus fans who are biased;)

Stefwhit
Apr 24th, 2004, 03:26 PM
I agree with the smaller contingent of fans and think that Serena is better on grass. While some are quick to point out that Vee was injured last year, let me remind you that in 2000 Serena was in kick ass form completely destroying the field. After 10 sets of tennis she had only lost 13 games before mentally collapsing against Vee in the semis. I don't like excuses of any kind because that's all they are, excuses, but if Serena had her mindset of today back then I don't think we would be talking about Vee being in four straight finals.

Let's all hope they're seeded at opposite ends of the draw and that both are 100% physically fit when Wimby rolls around- sounds like they'll be playing for braggin' rights as today's queen of Wimby.

bandabou
Apr 24th, 2004, 03:31 PM
I agree with the smaller contingent of fans and think that Serena is better on grass. While some are quick to point out that Vee was injured last year, let me remind you that in 2000 Serena was in kick ass form completely destroying the field. After 10 sets of tennis she had only lost 13 games before mentally collapsing against Vee in the semis. I don't like excuses of any kind because that's all they are, excuses, but if Serena had her mindset of today back then I don't think we would be talking about Vee being in four straight finals.

Let's all hope they're seeded at opposite ends of the draw and that both are 100% physically fit when Wimby rolls around- sounds like they'll be playing for braggin' rights as today's queen of Wimby.

brilliant post!

Experimentee
Apr 24th, 2004, 03:34 PM
Henin did not show up for that match, i expect Serena would still have won but it would not have been a thrashing.

1.go check Venus fastest and average first serve speed for that match, 2. go check the same stats for the preceding 6 matches and 3.then go and check the transcript of Oracene's LIVE BBC interview about why she knew Serena would win 02.

and Serena lost sets to Capriati- let's not forgot and.....


well let's call that a match of two halves 'b/4 rain and a/f rain' or 'injury pain/panic' vs injury resignation.

then let's ask why Serena dropped her second set, of the tournament, to an injured Venus.

perhaps it is not only Venus fans who are biased;)

OK how many excuses was that? :rolleyes:

Henin didnt show up for that match? I can easily say Serena didnt show up for any matches against Venus before 2002, and that would be true.

You have got to be kidding when you say Venus was injured for the 2002 Wimby final! I can buy that she was injured in 2003, but no way was she injured in 2002. Everyone who saw that match said that it was the best all Williams final, both played their best and fought hard. You've lost all credibility and shown yourself up as someone who just makes excuses for their fave if you seriously expect anyone to believe Venus was injured in 2002 Wimby final. She was simply beaten by a better player.

I'll repeat it again, Venus USED to be the best player on grass, but she hasnt been since 2001.

Legends
Apr 24th, 2004, 04:03 PM
OK how many excuses was that? :rolleyes:
Here I was thinking i was responding to the points YOU initially laid out :devil: oh dear, have they come back to bite you?



Henin didnt show up for that match? I can easily say Serena didnt show up for any matches against Venus before 2002, and that would be true. but have you asked my opinion on this? because i did not think that was the issue being disputed;)



You have got to be kidding when you say Venus was injured for the 2002 Wimby final! I can buy that she was injured in 2003, but no way was she injured in 2002. Everyone who saw that match said that it was the best all Williams final, both played their best and fought hard. You do not have to buy anything you don't want. That's the beauty of the free world.
...but you may want to go back though and check the STATS for yourself rather than get so hot and bothered.




I can never understand why people can't live and let live, oh well be as it may, thank goodness i do not crave credibility in your eyes, Experiment.

I have seen Venus play very well and have seen her play very poorly and Venus has played below her potential these past few years but that i think Venus at her best will win vs Serena at her Best (something that i have not actually seen yet) is an opinion that YOU CAN NOT CHANGE. It is called having a different opinion. Please, please, please don't be threatened by it:kiss: perhaps you may want to chill and focus on your believes rather than taking such umbrage at mine.

i'll just chill here and hope that Venus can remain healthy and brings out her best at the right times this year because then i know everything else will fall into place:angel:

Jericho
Apr 24th, 2004, 04:03 PM
Venus' game is suited for grass tennis. Big first serve, great movement, and great net skills (something that Serena does not have)

IF Venus and Serena were 100% healthy and both in form, there is no doubt in my mind that Venus will win. The problem with Venus is that she will go to the net a lot of times against other players and then against Serena she gets stuck on the baseline.

bandabou
Apr 24th, 2004, 04:28 PM
I love these Venus fans....itīs so cute! Itīs all about Venus. EVerytime Venus lost to Serena, she didnīt try, she wasnīt there, etc....when Serena was losing all the time, my bet is they werenīt seeing those same things for Serena.

Even at her best, I donīt think it is that case-closed that Venus is better than Serena on grass...not buying that.

Experimentee
Apr 24th, 2004, 04:29 PM
Here I was thinking i was responding to the points YOU initially laid out :devil: oh dear, have they come back to bite you?



but have you asked my opinion on this? because i did not think that was the issue being disputed;)



You do not have to buy anything you don't want. That's the beauty of the free world.
...but you may want to go back though and check the STATS for yourself rather than get so hot and bothered.

I can never understand why people can't live and let live, oh well be as it may, thank goodness i do not crave credibility in your eyes, Experiment.

I have seen Venus play very well and have seen her play very poorly and Venus has played below her potential these past few years but that i think Venus at her best will win vs Serena at her Best (something that i have not actually seen yet) is an opinion that YOU CAN NOT CHANGE. It is called having a different opinion. Please, please, please don't be threatened by it:kiss: perhaps you may want to chill and focus on your believes rather than taking such umbrage at mine.

i'll just chill here and hope that Venus can remain healthy and brings out her best at the right times this year because then i know everything else will fall into place:angel:

I didnt ever say you couldnt have your opinions. In fact, you were the one who started responding to and disputing my opinion, as if I had said something wrong, and making false claims that Venus was injured. You keep going on about stats, but everyone knows they dont tell the whole story.
I think you are the one who needs to chill. If you didnt want to debate with me you should never have responded to my post first.
I believe Serena at her best is better than Venus on any surface and has been since 2002. You didnt say anything that changed my mind on that issue.

Volcana
Apr 24th, 2004, 04:41 PM
We have a very small sample to use.

I think Venus is the better grrass court player against the rest of the tour. However, when they face each other, Serena is better. When you've been inthe last four staight Wimbledon finals, it's kinda hard to say someone else is BETTER than you on that surface.

It would help if there were a few more grass tournament to use as a measure.

harloo
Apr 24th, 2004, 04:53 PM
Boy this can be debated forever, but right now Serena is the best on grass. She won 2 Wimby titles like Venus did when she was regarded the best on grass.

In 2002 Serena played outstanding and Vee could not stop her at Wimby. I was amazed at how well she served throughout the match. The difference has always been the serve with the sisters and that's what gave Serena the edge in most of those slam matches.

The sisters are coached by the same person, grew up together, so they know each other's game inside out. I do feel if Venus learns how to come to the net more against Serena she will get a new edge. Venus is intimidating when she comes in, but otherwise I would not put her over Serena. I really feel that both sisters have equal ability and on any given day can step it up against each other.

Legends
Apr 24th, 2004, 06:49 PM
I didnt ever say you couldnt have your opinions. In fact, you were the one who started responding to and disputing my opinion, as if I had said something wrong.

Actually I was not trying to change your opinion at all. I voted on this thread when it just opened which is when I came across it. I saw the thread starters argument, came across is again with Glenn’s, Bandabou’s, Tennisjunky’s etc posts.

Yours was the only one which seemed to be attacking those who voted for Venus (Btw it was not only Venus fans who voted for her and also not all Venus fans voted for her at that).

You keep going on about stats, but everyone knows they dont tell the whole story.
if i believed it was only about stats or results i would not even be posting in this thread.
You brought up a match against Henin – for me the argument was not that Serena won. I believe she would have regardless. My argument was did Henin play as well as she could have? I do not think so – so my point here is that looking at scoreline would not necessarily tell the whole story.


You brought another point that Venus lost sets to Davenport and Kim, conveniently forgetting that Serena lost sets to Capriati and Venus. My argument here is that losing sets is not the best indication. Capriati in her slam runs lost sets on a regular basis (okay slight exaggeration) but delivered when it counted. Having said this, Davenport played an excellent 2nd set against Vee but I do not believe Venus would have dropped a set against Kim if not for the injury.

you have to credit to those who see the things in Venus' game/abilities that allows them to believe in her irrespective of her results.


and making false claims that Venus was injured.
You brought up the 2002 match – the only one I did wonder about until I heard and saw Oracene on TV after the match (before that particular match people were asking her who would win and she was like ‘how would I know?’ basically, she was uneasy about what was being implied by the questioning she was being subjected too. She only began to believe that Serena had the advantage when she learnt that Venus had a shoulder injury prior to the match) Oracene’s comments not mine and not made up by me- anyone who followed 2002 Wimbledon coverage on BBC in the UK would have seen this interview. She also talked about the fact that she was travelling to Africa after the tournament on a charity/sport promotion tour.

.

So yes I did wonder until I put those comments together with the fact that Venus did not serve as fast as previous matches.

The Guardian’s definitive guide on Wimbledon 2003 – had the following Hot Shot listed for Venus, exact quotes “Serves like a rocket, taking no prisoners. Unless she’s playing her own family, that is” This guide was compiled for all the seeds based predominantly on their 2002 performances and other general facts known. FYI for Serena the Hot Shot was “All of them, but opponents live in fear of the verbal volley Serena might unleash if she gets beaten. Accused Justine Henin of ‘lying and fabricating’ after her French Open defeat”.
I buy The Guardian on a regular basis and kept this exert because I found a lot of the comments entertaining. Please don’t accuse me of lying without verifying these sources.
For me the point remains, whether Venus serving to full capacity would have made difference to 2002 outcome- well as s Serena fan I would expect you to say no ‘Serena was on a mission’ but as a Venus fan I retain the right to have reasonable doubt. That for me, is Live and let Live.

I believe Serena at her best is better than Venus on any surface and has been since 2002. You didnt say anything that changed my mind on that issue Good for you.

It is never about what you believe and trying to change re: who is better. It was about responding to your attack on Venus fans – which I took up based on the points you highlighted – and your attack on me because you were not happy with my response to the points you raised.

CJ07
Apr 24th, 2004, 06:58 PM
Obviously, you know what I'm going to say.
However, Venus WAS injured during her 2002 Wimbledon final.
And even so, like John McEnroe said at 3-4 in the second set Serena was playing very well, but Venus wasn't winning because of her mentality.

But anyway, untill Venus beats Serena on grass again, Serena will remain the better player.

cometz9
Apr 24th, 2004, 07:05 PM
Venus is the better player on grass:worship::worship::worship:

SJW
Apr 24th, 2004, 07:11 PM
I love these Venus fans....itīs so cute! Itīs all about Venus. EVerytime Venus lost to Serena, she didnīt try, she wasnīt there, etc....when Serena was losing all the time, my bet is they werenīt seeing those same things for Serena.

Even at her best, I donīt think it is that case-closed that Venus is better than Serena on grass...not buying that.heard of the phrases "bastard child" or "sacrificial lamb"?

numbers and facts only matter to some people when it's favourable. in other cases, such as a>b, a only occurs because of some sort of injury, lack of passion, etc

bandabou
Apr 24th, 2004, 07:26 PM
heard of the phrases "bastard child" or "sacrificial lamb"?

numbers and facts only matter to some people when it's favourable. in other cases, such as a>b, a only occurs because of some sort of injury, lack of passion, etc

:lol: You got that one right. When Venus was winning, I could live with it and accept that she was better at the time. Now thatīs the opposite, Venusīs fans canīt accept nor deal with it. Injuries this and blah blah....

tennisIlove09
Apr 24th, 2004, 07:27 PM
maybe it's such a tough debate because we've never seen the girls play their best against each other? Serena wasn't at her best in 2000; Venus wasn't at her best in 2002 or 2003.

Hopefully 2004 both will be 100% determined (which Venus hasn't been against Serena since the 2001 US Open) and 100% healthy.

New_balls_please
Apr 24th, 2004, 07:27 PM
Venus

darrinbaker00
Apr 24th, 2004, 07:27 PM
****PC ANSWER ALERT****
As of now, I say it's a push. Serena has won the last two Wimbledons, but Venus has played in four straight finals, which only Navratilova and Evert have ever done before. If either of them win the Big W this year, she'll have the upper hand, but I consider them even right now. ;)

tennisIlove09
Apr 24th, 2004, 07:28 PM
:lol: You got that one right. When Venus was winning, I could live with it and accept that she was better at the time. Now thatīs the opposite, Venusīs fans canīt accept nor deal with it. Injuries this and blah blah....
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: It's the truth though. Venus hasn't played a good match against Serena since the 2001 US Open

bandabou
Apr 24th, 2004, 07:54 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: It's the truth though. Venus hasn't played a good match against Serena since the 2001 US Open

:haha: :rolls: Or is it: THAT was the last bad match Serena played against Venus?! :lol: :rolls:

tennisIlove09
Apr 24th, 2004, 08:07 PM
:haha: :rolls: Or is it: THAT was the last bad match Serena played against Venus?! :lol: :rolls:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: The French was ugly. Serena didn't play well. The Australian wasn't bad, I guess. Wimbledon 2003 was ugly from Serena. Venus had the title if she wasn't injured (Serena said so).

It's just Serena fans can't see anything else but Serena. It's kind of sad, in a strange twisted way. ;)

bandabou
Apr 24th, 2004, 08:13 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: The French was ugly. Serena didn't play well. The Australian wasn't bad, I guess. Wimbledon 2003 was ugly from Serena. Venus had the title if she wasn't injured (Serena said so).

It's just Serena fans can't see anything else but Serena. It's kind of sad, in a strange twisted way. ;)

Uhmm....some VENUS fans you meant say..

tennisIlove09
Apr 24th, 2004, 08:16 PM
No. There was no typo ;)

bandabou
Apr 24th, 2004, 08:34 PM
And you mean it....but then if one looks at for you are writing for...

tennisIlove09
Apr 24th, 2004, 08:37 PM
:lol: ...or one looks at your sig ;)

...this could go on and on and on and on and on

bandabou
Apr 24th, 2004, 09:01 PM
:lol: ...or one looks at your sig ;)

...this could go on and on and on and on and on

:lol: I got the results....on grass the h2h is 2-1..

tennisIlove09
Apr 24th, 2004, 09:02 PM
:lol: I got the results....on grass the h2h is 2-1..
and the "2" victories are both when the other was injured :tape:

"Topaz"
Apr 24th, 2004, 09:23 PM
Who's the best player on grass, Serena or Venus?

I think it would have been better if the question was shortened to
Who's the (current) best player on grass?
So doing we would have avoided pitting the sisters against each other, something they don't like anyway. Besides, the answer(s) would be just the same. ;)

Nevertheless, a thread is a thread. So, my sentimental answer is Venus even though the last data on record prove otherwise.

SJW
Apr 24th, 2004, 09:23 PM
:rolleyes:

what a wonderous thread this turned out to be

harloo
Apr 24th, 2004, 09:30 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: The French was ugly. Serena didn't play well. The Australian wasn't bad, I guess. Wimbledon 2003 was ugly from Serena. Venus had the title if she wasn't injured (Serena said so).

It's just Serena fans can't see anything else but Serena. It's kind of sad, in a strange twisted way. ;)
Serena beat Venus and that's something that Vee only fans(such as yourself) should accept. Venus was dominate at one point, but dominance does not last forever. Serena won't be dominate forever.

What I find so disturbing about some Venus ONLY fans is they cannot accept the fact that Serena was just better at that time when she beat Venus. Now that is sad.

Futhermore being a fan of both I just am tired of the comparisons, the Venus let Serena win crap, well was anyone saying this when Serena was losing to Vee constantly as well as every other top player in big matches?

The fact that noone cannot deny is that Venus's level has been down for a while now, while dealing with injuries, and a lack of focus on tennis. I would like her to win some slams this year, but she is going to have to take lil sis down to do it. Serena is just as good as Venus right now, she has proven it so all the denial is pretty much hogwash.

bandabou
Apr 24th, 2004, 09:31 PM
and the "2" victories are both when the other was injured :tape:

Tjaa....part of being a player is being fit.

bandabou
Apr 24th, 2004, 09:35 PM
Serena beat Venus and that's something that Vee only fans(such as yourself) should accept. Venus was dominate at one point, but dominance does not last forever. Serena won't be dominate forever.

What I find so disturbing about some Venus ONLY fans is they cannot accept the fact that Serena was just better at that time when she beat Venus. Now that is sad.

Futhermore being a fan of both I just am tired of the comparisons, the Venus let Serena win crap, well was anyone saying this when Serena was losing to Vee constantly as well as every other top player in big matches?

The fact that noone cannot deny is that Venus's level has been down for a while now, while dealing with injuries, and a lack of focus on tennis. I would like her to win some slams this year, but she is going to have to take lil sis down to do it. Serena is just as good as Venus right now, she has proven it so all the denial is pretty much hogwash.

man, youīre good!

sartrista7
Apr 24th, 2004, 09:41 PM
So doing we would have avoided pitting the sisters against each other, something they don't like anyway.

I don't see why we shouldn't pit Venus and Serena against each other... any other players widely perceived to be the best two in the world would be constantly compared.

V and S's rivalry is very odd though... I'm not even sure how much we can even take the head-to-head into account at any time. Serena is definitely the superior player, but neither of them have played against each other like they do against other players, ever... neither with the same quality, nor the same passion. And that goes for both of them, so neither have any excuses.

I've said for a long time that if Serena plays at 100%, only two players have a chance of beating her... Justine on clay and Venus on grass. (I think Amelie has the skills to do it, but she is also Queen Choke.) And in Venus's case, that's based on what she CAN do in a match... which is move forward, serve-volley, get to the net at every opportunity. If her first serve is working, grass is the only surface where Serena's amazing returns won't prevent her from doing this... and Venus has nice touch at the net, whereas Serena's volleying technique can be quite hilarious, especially when she's emotionally frazzled.

That said, if Venus stays on the baseline... that doesn't apply. So, er... I guess Venus has a game more suited to grass than Serena, but Serena's still the likelier winner if either of them bother to play well against each other. And as long as their matches continue to be horrid, Serena's superior technique will see her through.

(Incidentally, I think tennisIlove might well be one of the densest posters on this board, which is quite something. I fucking hate fans who are blind to rationality.)

sartrista7
Apr 24th, 2004, 09:42 PM
Oh, and I'm a Venus-only fan for what it's worth.

harloo
Apr 24th, 2004, 09:58 PM
Oh, and I'm a Venus-only fan for what it's worth.
some Venus ONLY fans:) ;)

bandabou
Apr 24th, 2004, 10:00 PM
I don't see why we shouldn't pit Venus and Serena against each other... any other players widely perceived to be the best two in the world would be constantly compared.

V and S's rivalry is very odd though... I'm not even sure how much we can even take the head-to-head into account at any time. Serena is definitely the superior player, but neither of them have played against each other like they do against other players, ever... neither with the same quality, nor the same passion. And that goes for both of them, so neither have any excuses.

I've said for a long time that if Serena plays at 100%, only two players have a chance of beating her... Justine on clay and Venus on grass. (I think Amelie has the skills to do it, but she is also Queen Choke.) And in Venus's case, that's based on what she CAN do in a match... which is move forward, serve-volley, get to the net at every opportunity. If her first serve is working, grass is the only surface where Serena's amazing returns won't prevent her from doing this... and Venus has nice touch at the net, whereas Serena's volleying technique can be quite hilarious, especially when she's emotionally frazzled.

That said, if Venus stays on the baseline... that doesn't apply. So, er... I guess Venus has a game more suited to grass than Serena, but Serena's still the likelier winner if either of them bother to play well against each other. And as long as their matches continue to be horrid, Serena's superior technique will see her through.

(Incidentally, I think tennisIlove might well be one of the densest posters on this board, which is quite something. I fucking hate fans who are blind to rationality.)

Good analysis..says something about Serenaīs skills for sure.

victory1
Apr 24th, 2004, 10:19 PM
I don't see why we shouldn't pit Venus and Serena against each other... any other players widely perceived to be the best two in the world would be constantly compared.

V and S's rivalry is very odd though... I'm not even sure how much we can even take the head-to-head into account at any time. Serena is definitely the superior player, but neither of them have played against each other like they do against other players, ever... neither with the same quality, nor the same passion. And that goes for both of them, so neither have any excuses.

I've said for a long time that if Serena plays at 100%, only two players have a chance of beating her... Justine on clay and Venus on grass. (I think Amelie has the skills to do it, but she is also Queen Choke.) And in Venus's case, that's based on what she CAN do in a match... which is move forward, serve-volley, get to the net at every opportunity. If her first serve is working, grass is the only surface where Serena's amazing returns won't prevent her from doing this... and Venus has nice touch at the net, whereas Serena's volleying technique can be quite hilarious, especially when she's emotionally frazzled.

That said, if Venus stays on the baseline... that doesn't apply. So, er... I guess Venus has a game more suited to grass than Serena, but Serena's still the likelier winner if either of them bother to play well against each other. And as long as their matches continue to be horrid, Serena's superior technique will see her through.

(Incidentally, I think tennisIlove might well be one of the densest posters on this board, which is quite something. I fucking hate fans who are blind to rationality.)
I would like to second your views on TennisIlove!:worship:

Knizzle
Apr 24th, 2004, 10:19 PM
I'd like to say that the word is DOMINANT!!! Not Dominate!! Otherwise I have no use in this thread.

Venus Forever
Apr 24th, 2004, 10:54 PM
Serena beat Venus and that's something that Vee only fans(such as yourself) should accept. Venus was dominate at one point, but dominance does not last forever. Serena won't be dominate forever.

What I find so disturbing about some Venus ONLY fans is they cannot accept the fact that Serena was just better at that time when she beat Venus. Now that is sad.

Futhermore being a fan of both I just am tired of the comparisons, the Venus let Serena win crap, well was anyone saying this when Serena was losing to Vee constantly as well as every other top player in big matches?

The fact that noone cannot deny is that Venus's level has been down for a while now, while dealing with injuries, and a lack of focus on tennis. I would like her to win some slams this year, but she is going to have to take lil sis down to do it. Serena is just as good as Venus right now, she has proven it so all the denial is pretty much hogwash.
It's quite funny, we hear all about how the Venus fans can't accept that Serena was just too good, but of course, that was not true in the days when Venus was the one winning all the time.

Of course, when Venus was winning all the time, it wasn't because Venus was too good, it was because Serena's mentality when playing Venus was terrible, which often lost her the match, and I totally agree with that, then and now.

HOWEVER, it does go both ways.

Venus was at her best in 2000 and 2001. The forehand was on always, the second serve was consistently in the 90mph ranges, sometimes cracking 100mph, and rarely ever double-faulting. 2002 and 2003 Venus was not the same person, in fact, I think the constant beatings she handed to Serena affected Venus more than it affected Serena.

I'm not applying that Venus gave Serena all of those GS Finals willingly, but Venus went into those matches with a different perspective. After the US Open 2001, Venus saw how distraught Serena was, and didn't like seeing that pain. This changed Venus for the next few years, as if she didn't want that to happen to Serena ever again. This affected the way Venus approached the matches; she didn't go in there with that same attitude and determination as she did with the rest of the tour. This, was just simply not Venus, not to mention that her game slipped in general as well.

Serena WAS better, but, why was she better??

Just as I believe it was mental when Serena was constantly losing to Serena, I believe it's now mental with all of Venus' losses to Serena. The girl was just never the same after her 2001 victory in New York.

My question to you is, why can't the Serena fans accept the fact that the Venus who played Serena in all of those GS finals is NOT the same Venus who beat Serena in the previous years, just as we all knew that the Serena we saw against Venus pre-2002 was not the real Serena??

bandabou
Apr 24th, 2004, 11:07 PM
It's quite funny, we hear all about how the Venus fans can't accept that Serena was just too good, but of course, that was not true in the days when Venus was the one winning all the time.

Of course, when Venus was winning all the time, it wasn't because Venus was too good, it was because Serena's mentality when playing Venus was terrible, which often lost her the match, and I totally agree with that, then and now.

HOWEVER, it does go both ways.

Venus was at her best in 2000 and 2001. The forehand was on always, the second serve was consistently in the 90mph ranges, sometimes cracking 100mph, and rarely ever double-faulting. 2002 and 2003 Venus was not the same person, in fact, I think the constant beatings she handed to Serena affected Venus more than it affected Serena.

I'm not applying that Venus gave Serena all of those GS Finals willingly, but Venus went into those matches with a different perspective. After the US Open 2001, Venus saw how distraught Serena was, and didn't like seeing that pain. This changed Venus for the next few years, as if she didn't want that to happen to Serena ever again. This affected the way Venus approached the matches; she didn't go in there with that same attitude and determination as she did with the rest of the tour. This, was just simply not Venus, not to mention that her game slipped in general as well.

Serena WAS better, but, why was she better??

Just as I believe it was mental when Serena was constantly losing to Serena, I believe it's now mental with all of Venus' losses to Serena. The girl was just never the same after her 2001 victory in New York.

My question to you is, why can't the Serena fans accept the fact that the Venus who played Serena in all of those GS finals is NOT the same Venus who beat Serena in the previous years, just as we all knew that the Serena we saw against Venus pre-2002 was not the real Serena??

If it goes both ways, then itīs aight. Donīt act like Venus was the queen of the world when she was winning and it didnīt matter how Serena played, and now that Venusīs losing itīs because she isnīt mentally there.

sartrista7
Apr 24th, 2004, 11:13 PM
My question to you is, why can't the Serena fans accept the fact that the Venus who played Serena in all of those GS finals is NOT the same Venus who beat Serena in the previous years, just as we all knew that the Serena we saw against Venus pre-2002 was not the real Serena??

The Venus who owned Serena's ass pre-2002 was not the same Venus beating up on the rest of the field. The Serena who beats up on Venus now is not the same Serena who's dominant against everyone else. In every all-Williams match so far, both winner and loser have played spectacularly sub-par tennis - and the winner has generally won primarily because of the loser just being even worse.

Knizzle
Apr 24th, 2004, 11:15 PM
If it goes both ways, then itīs aight. Donīt act like Venus was the queen of the world when she was winning and it didnīt matter how Serena played, and now that Venusīs losing itīs because she isnīt mentally there.
OK I'm going back on my word and jumping into the discussion. I have to say that when Venus was winning, Serena wasn't always around. Now that Serena's winning, Venus is right there with her in the finals.

harloo
Apr 24th, 2004, 11:22 PM
It's quite funny, we hear all about how the Venus fans can't accept that Serena was just too good, but of course, that was not true in the days when Venus was the one winning all the time.

Of course, when Venus was winning all the time, it wasn't because Venus was too good, it was because Serena's mentality when playing Venus was terrible, which often lost her the match, and I totally agree with that, then and now.Back in the day when Venus was winning everything I thought she was better than Serena. After that 1999 U.S. Open win Serena's level went down. Venus improved her mental state, serve, and forehand , and 2000 and 2001 she was the best. But honestly, Venus was so good compared to the rest of the tour that she did not really have to pay attention to some flaws in her game.

I am not one who believes that Serena was better when they met up at Wimby or when Venus won at the 2001 U.S. Open against her. Venus was indeed better then.

HOWEVER, it does go both ways.

Venus was at her best in 2000 and 2001. The forehand was on always, the second serve was consistently in the 90mph ranges, sometimes cracking 100mph, and rarely ever double-faulting. 2002 and 2003 Venus was not the same person, in fact, I think the constant beatings she handed to Serena affected Venus more than it affected Serena.This is where I disagree with you. I have taped every match, and even when Venus was dominating she had problems with her forehand, and serve. However, noone could challenge her mentally. Venus did not need to raise the level because their was simply no one better than her on tour at that time.


I'm not applying that Venus gave Serena all of those GS Finals willingly, but Venus went into those matches with a different perspective. After the US Open 2001, Venus saw how distraught Serena was, and didn't like seeing that pain. This changed Venus for the next few years, as if she didn't want that to happen to Serena ever again. This affected the way Venus approached the matches; she didn't go in there with that same attitude and determination as she did with the rest of the tour. This, was just simply not Venus, not to mention that her game slipped in general as well.

Serena WAS better, but, why was she better??
I don't know what goes on with the dynamics of their relationship when they step on court against each other, but Venus beat Serena without any problems before 2002. Serena became a better player. Of course I think Venus can beat Serena, because their abilities are the same. However, the tides just changed and I just don't understand why some folks don't see that. Folk thought Serena would win the Career gs last year but that did not happen. Domination does not last forever even if you are Venus or Serena.


Just as I believe it was mental when Serena was constantly losing to Serena, I believe it's now mental with all of Venus' losses to Serena. The girl was just never the same after her 2001 victory in New York.

My question to you is, why can't the Serena fans accept the fact that the Venus who played Serena in all of those GS finals is NOT the same Venus who beat Serena in the previous years, just as we all knew that the Serena we saw against Venus pre-2002 was not the real Serena??Tennis is mental, but it was not all mental(maybe somewhat) when Venus lost those finals to Serena.

As far as your question:

It does not bother me who wins when they meet up. If Venus were to beat Serena in every slam this year, of course I would feel bad for Serena but I will not let it cloud reality. The reality would be that Venus was better in those matches whether it be mental or game wise.

When Venus lost all those finals to Serena it really was sad to me. I would usually watch the matches over, but could not watch that. However, I realize that maybe Serena taking a huge lead over Venus would make her change her game up.

The other girls are getting better on tour, it's good that Serena pushed Venus in those finals. I do expect Venus to respond and she will come out victorious. I am just not for acting as if either sister gave finals away because they felt sorry for each other.:lick:

Stefwhit
Apr 24th, 2004, 11:49 PM
heard of the phrases "bastard child" or "sacrificial lamb"?

numbers and facts only matter to some people when it's favourable. in other cases, such as a>b, a only occurs because of some sort of injury, lack of passion, etc
:worship:

When Venus was winning, I could live with it and accept that she was better at the time. Now thatīs the opposite, Venusīs fans canīt accept nor deal with it. Injuries this and blah blah
:worship:

What I find so disturbing about some Venus ONLY fans is they cannot accept the fact that Serena was just better at that time when she beat Venus. Now that is sad.

Futhermore being a fan of both I just am tired of the comparisons, the Venus let Serena win crap, well was anyone saying this when Serena was losing to Vee constantly as well as every other top player in big matches?

The fact that noone cannot deny is that Venus's level has been down for a while now, while dealing with injuries, and a lack of focus on tennis. I would like her to win some slams this year, but she is going to have to take lil sis down to do it. Serena is just as good as Venus right now, she has proven it so all the denial is pretty much hogwash.
:worship:

I don't see why we shouldn't pit Venus and Serena against each other... any other players widely perceived to be the best two in the world would be constantly compared.
Great post! I'm glad that you brought that up because so many fans are scared to bring up a discussion that pits the sisters against each other and that's ridiculous. They both play tennis and from time to time they play against one another. Both are great players and it's only sensible that comparisons and debates would take flight. When it comes to the question of who's dominate on grass I think it's a great question and for all those that say Venus and have logically stated why you believe this I appreciate reading your comments, whether I agree with them or not. I actually think that if you filter through some posters who obviously aren't interested in really having a discussion you'll find a lot of good points being made by both sides. I'm rather enjoying reading what people have to say and I'm not so stubburn in my current position that I'm not willing to change my mind if a valid argument can be made to persuade me, but that just hasn't happened yet. And you make a great point in that the best players will always be pitted against one another Chris and Martina debates were followed by Martina and Steffi debates, then Steffi and Monica debates (which are still going on to this day)...etc.... So it's only natural and if people are up for a honest discussion then isn't that the ultimate goal of a tennis board.

This is a tennis board for goodness sake, and just because people are fans of both doesn't mean that we cant ask questions and compare the two. And just because youre a fan of both doesn't mean that you cant have an opinion either, unless you simply think theyre equal in every aspect.
:worship:

Venus Forever
Apr 24th, 2004, 11:54 PM
The Venus who owned Serena's ass pre-2002 was not the same Venus beating up on the rest of the field. The Serena who beats up on Venus now is not the same Serena who's dominant against everyone else. In every all-Williams match so far, both winner and loser have played spectacularly sub-par tennis - and the winner has generally won primarily because of the loser just being even worse.
This is how I feel.

In many of the matches the LOSER determined who won the match, NOT the winner.

Venus Forever
Apr 24th, 2004, 11:56 PM
If it goes both ways, then itīs aight. Donīt act like Venus was the queen of the world when she was winning and it didnīt matter how Serena played, and now that Venusīs losing itīs because she isnīt mentally there.
I believe EVERY SINGLE MATCH so far has been determined by the loser and her mental state. I don't believe it had to do with the other being just too good. Maybe the other was better, but definitely not because she was just too good.

The loser determined the match, not the winner.

TeeRexx
Apr 25th, 2004, 01:44 AM
We will find out in June. :eek: :lol:

But, look for VENUS to have her 3rd Wimbey title as well

calabar
Apr 25th, 2004, 02:27 AM
Venus may be better ON Grass, but Capriati is better WITH Grass. LOLOL

sunnysideup
Apr 25th, 2004, 05:34 AM
Serena

tennisIlove09
Apr 25th, 2004, 06:13 AM
If Serena had beaten Venus while Venus was playing her best it would very easy to say "Serena is the better player"; but since that has never happened I choose to look at my "facts".

1-2001 US Open
If you don't think this changed both Venus and Serena you're fooling yourself. Venus said herself it didn't feel like a victory; and once again she saw Serena near tears after a defeat. Knowing how close they are that HAD to get to Venus.

2-OZ 2002/Miami 2002
Watch your OZ tapes. Dani took an injured Venus to three sets. Seles beat an injured Venus in three sets. Key words: injured Venus; three sets. Venus was moving pretty well. She ran a lot of shit down in those matches.

A "healthy" Venus in Miami barely tried to win the match against Serena. She didn't run, she didn't do anything. As a Williams Fan (more Venus, but I never root against Serena...unless she's playing Venus) I had always tossed the stupid talk that Richard determined the winner. But I remember watching this match at home and I kept thinking that it was pre-determined because
a-I had never seen Venus play with so little focus/passion/determination
and
b-I had never seen Venus NOT move. As said before, even an injured Venus in Aussie moved 150% better.

3-Paris 2002
Venus was the better player in Paris. No sets lost in route to the final. Serena had played better leading UP to the French, but not in the tournament itself. Yet before the finals Oracene states she wants Serena to win. Venus said something to the extent that she felt for Serena since she hadn't won a major since 99. Then what happens? An ugly match on both...but especially Venus. I have NEVER seen Venus serve worse than that match (or wait, yes I have...Miami 2002 :rolleyes: )

4-Wimbledon 2002
Serena played out of her mind. She deserved the victory. But one has to wonder what would have happened if Venus didn't have that shoulder injury. Why? Her serve speeds were 10-15 mph SLOWER than usual. Davenport/Henin had talked about her serve (Davenport in 00 F; 01 SF...JHH in 01 F; 02 SF) and about how lethal it was on grass. Of course she isn't going to win if she can't have her biggest weapon.

5-New York 2002
Errors errors errors. Ugly match. Again, Venus lost it. I don't think Serena did anything special to win that match--where Wimbledon she did (even in Vee's injury)

6-OZ 2003
I don't care what anyone says...Venus COULD NOT have won that match. Even if she "seperates" her sister from the other side of the court, she loves Serena too much to prevent that kind of histortical achievement of 4 in a row. There's just no way.

7-Wimbledon 2003
Injury changed the outcome. Serena said so; everyone watching knew.

So what's the point? I don't think Serena is head and shoulders above Venus. Had Serena beaten Venus, who was playing 100% fine. But that hasn't happened. I still think the best set of tennis they played (when both were healthy) was the second set of the 2000 Wimbledon. The best match was the 2002 Wimbledon, but again I wonder what would have happened if Vee had her serve.

I'm out on the topic...:wavey:

bandabou
Apr 25th, 2004, 06:22 AM
But neither have we seen Venus beating a 100 % Serena either.....
Liptonī99, Serena was totally blazing the field, barely losing her serve. Then she goes into the final barely can she hold serve.

Wimbledon ī00, smoking the field, only 12 games combined had she lost and then against Venus she canīt hold a ball in court.

It goes both ways, it goes both ways...

tennisIlove09
Apr 25th, 2004, 06:38 AM
But neither have we seen Venus beating a 100 % Serena either.....
Liptonī99, Serena was totally blazing the field, barely losing her serve. Then she goes into the final barely can she hold serve.

Wimbledon ī00, smoking the field, only 12 games combined had she lost and then against Venus she canīt hold a ball in court.

It goes both ways, it goes both ways...
Exactly. So really saying Serena is better doesn't hold up because she's never beaten Venus at 100%. And the other way around. Could this be...gasp!....a breakthrough? :lol:

tennisIlove09
Apr 25th, 2004, 06:38 AM
I guess I lied...I posted again :rolleyes: :o

bandabou
Apr 25th, 2004, 06:46 AM
I believe EVERY SINGLE MATCH so far has been determined by the loser and her mental state. I don't believe it had to do with the other being just too good. Maybe the other was better, but definitely not because she was just too good.

The loser determined the match, not the winner.

As long as it goes for ALL matches then it is aight. Iīve the feeling that for some people this logic only started after u.s.open 2001.

bandabou
Apr 25th, 2004, 06:49 AM
Exactly. So really saying Serena is better doesn't hold up because she's never beaten Venus at 100%. And the other way around. Could this be...gasp!....a breakthrough? :lol:

As long as we agree that it goes both ways..

SerialKiller#69
Apr 25th, 2004, 06:54 AM
Serena is the better player period.

SJW
Apr 25th, 2004, 09:53 AM
like i said before.....fact's cant be disputed by OPINIONS...

it honestly doesn't hurt to say Serena is better :o why is it that some "Williams" fans are the only one to hate that? :o:confused:

bandabou
Apr 25th, 2004, 10:49 AM
like i said before.....fact's cant be disputed by OPINIONS...

it honestly doesn't hurt to say Serena is better :o why is it that some "Williams" fans are the only one to hate that? :o:confused:

Stats and the truth hurts...

Belgium = Best
Apr 25th, 2004, 11:12 AM
Venus is the dominate player on grass.

(I think!) :wavey:

Stefwhit
Apr 25th, 2004, 11:37 AM
If the question is who is better on grass, even with facts at your disposal, it's still a matter of opinion- as a case for both players can be made. To even begin to answer that question you would have first define "better". Does that mean whose game is most suited, does that mean whose posted better results in their history of the event, does that mean who has a better H2H on grass, etc... That's a tough question to answer!

But when it comes to answering the question about who, of the two, is the more dominant player (on grass), then that's definitely something a little easier to answer. It's simply a matter of who has performed better, with more emphasis on latter results. It's not who once was, it's who "is"....

The fact that Serena has won the last two Wimbys puts her in good contention to be viewed as the dominant player on grass. It's hard to argue that she's not currently the most prominent player at Wimby. And in comparison to the next best grass player, Venus, she's never lost before the 3rd round- while Venus has been bounced out as early as the first round.

Some have argued that Venus has a better record at Wimby but if you compare their records you'll see that Serena actually has a better record at that slam.

1st time they played: Serena made it to the 3rd round / Venus lost in the 1st
2nd time: Serena made it to the semi-finals / Venus made it to the Quarters
3rd time: Serena made it to the QF / Venus made it to the QF
4th time: Serena Won / Venus Won
5th time: Serena Won / Venus Won
6th time: ----- / Venus made it to the final
7th time: ----- / Venus made it to the final

Serena has won 2/5 Wimbledons =.40 winning percentage
Venus has won 2/7 Wimbledons= .29 winning percentage

SERENA=MOST DOMINANT

bandabou
Apr 25th, 2004, 11:52 AM
If the question is who is better on grass, even with facts at your disposal, it's still a matter of opinion- as a case for both players can be made. To even begin to answer that question you would have first define "better". Does that mean whose game is most suited, does that mean whose posted better results in their history of the event, does that mean who has a better H2H on grass, etc... That's a tough question to answer!

But when it comes to answering the question about who, of the two, is the more dominant player (on grass), then that's definitely something a little easier to answer. It's simply a matter of who has performed better, with more emphasis on latter results. It's not who once was, it's who "is"....

The fact that Serena has won the last two Wimbys puts her in good contention to be viewed as the dominant player on grass. It's hard to argue that she's not currently the most prominent player at Wimby. And in comparison to the next best grass player, Venus, she's never lost before the 3rd round- while Venus has been bounced out as early as the first round.

Some have argued that Venus has a better record at Wimby but if you compare their records you'll see that Serena actually has a better record at that slam.

1st time they played: Serena made it to the 3rd round / Venus lost in the 1st
2nd time: Serena made it to the semi-finals / Venus made it to the Quarters
3rd time: Serena made it to the QF / Venus made it to the QF
4th time: Serena Won / Venus Won
5th time: Serena Won / Venus Won
6th time: ----- / Venus made it to the final
7th time: ----- / Venus made it to the final

Serena has won 2/5 Wimbledons =.40 winning percentage
Venus has won 2/7 Wimbledons= .29 winning percentage

SERENA=MOST DOMINANT

sshhh......donīt tell nobody!!

Experimentee
Apr 25th, 2004, 01:44 PM
It's just like saying the glass is half empty instead of saying that the glass is half full... One could say the winner determined the match by making less unforced errors and being in a superior mental condition, I don't see the difference.

Exactly. The winner should be given credit for being mentally strong enough and cutting down their errors. The result of any match never depends on only one side, the other player must be doing their bit too. I'm sick of a lot of Venus fans never giving Serena credit for her wins.

tennisjunky
Apr 27th, 2004, 10:50 AM
Venus killed Serena in the poll. After Wimbledon Im going to bring this poll up to remind everybody how they voted, so beware.

tennisjunky
Jun 30th, 2004, 07:54 PM
Anyone wanna change their votes?

davenport_1
Jun 30th, 2004, 08:11 PM
Oracene

CJ07
Jun 30th, 2004, 08:14 PM
Serena's game on grass is more effective than Venus's
However Venus is more of a grass court player....does that make sense?

tennisIlove09
Jun 30th, 2004, 08:26 PM
Venus

bandabou
Jun 30th, 2004, 08:30 PM
one 1st round loss, one second round loss....hmmm, it seems clear that Serena is the most consistent one on the surface.

SJW
Jun 30th, 2004, 09:30 PM
if Serena wins her 3rd Wimbledon, then Venus will still be better, cuz the more Serena wins the better Venus is :)

volta
Jun 30th, 2004, 09:32 PM
does it matter? these Venus vs Serena battles do get tired...and annoying when you try to be a fan of both
yeah tell me about it i never know who iīm gonna vote LOL

bandabou
Jun 30th, 2004, 09:59 PM
if Serena wins her 3rd Wimbledon, then Venus will still be better, cuz the more Serena wins the better Venus is :)


:lol:

tennisIlove09
Jun 30th, 2004, 11:01 PM
If Serena wins Wimbledon, it will be close, but I will still give the edge to Venus because 2003 can be thrown out because of injury. ;)

Jericho
Jun 30th, 2004, 11:05 PM
if Serena wins her 3rd Wimbledon, then Venus will still be better, cuz the more Serena wins the better Venus is :)
i have to admit that that was funny :lol: :tape:

davenport_1
Jun 30th, 2004, 11:30 PM
I Vote Oracene !

*JR*
Jun 30th, 2004, 11:41 PM
Venus killed Serena in the poll. After Wimbledon Im going to bring this poll up to remind everybody how they voted, so beware.I love being in a "told you so" minority! :banana:

Fingon
Jun 30th, 2004, 11:48 PM
How people can say Venus is better is beyond me.

Serena has not only beaten Venus the last what? 6 times they played? that includes 2 times on grass.

And I just have to wonder what would have happened in 2001 if Serena wasn't ill against Jennifer? (I know she would have probably beaten my favourite in the semis)

and 2000 when Serena was playing a lot better than anyone else but choked against Venus.

In addition, Venus lost in the second round, Serena is still there and looking stronger every round. She destroyed her last two opponents.

Serena simply does everything better than Venus, doesn't have any big weakness (like Venus's second serve or forehand), and she is the one with 6 grand slams, including 2 Wimbledons, maybe 3 after Saturday.

Really, I don't get it. :confused:

Stamp Paid
Jun 30th, 2004, 11:56 PM
Hm......At their present states or in their prime?

At their present states: Serena, no doubt.

In their prime: Undeterminable at this point, we've never seen them both peak at the same time.

selesfan
Jul 1st, 2004, 02:52 AM
How people can say Venus is better is beyond me.

Serena has not only beaten Venus the last what? 6 times they played? that includes 2 times on grass.

And I just have to wonder what would have happened in 2001 if Serena wasn't ill against Jennifer? (I know she would have probably beaten my favourite in the semis)

and 2000 when Serena was playing a lot better than anyone else but choked against Venus.

In addition, Venus lost in the second round, Serena is still there and looking stronger every round. She destroyed her last two opponents.

Serena simply does everything better than Venus, doesn't have any big weakness (like Venus's second serve or forehand), and she is the one with 6 grand slams, including 2 Wimbledons, maybe 3 after Saturday.

Really, I don't get it. :confused:

Good post! It will never sink in, Serena could win 20 more slams with Venus losing in the 1st round of them all and we will still have threads that Venus is the superior player.;)

Sadka
Jul 1st, 2004, 03:53 AM
I always thought Venus was better on Grass :worship: ;)

*roddicksinme*
Jul 1st, 2004, 03:58 AM
I think Wimbledon 2004 answered this question for us

Sam L
Jul 1st, 2004, 04:00 AM
does it matter? these Venus vs Serena battles do get tired...and annoying when you try to be a fan of both
I didn't know that the board was here to cater specifically to your needs.

Great thread, ignore whiners like the above idiot.

With each at their best, I'd say Venus, purely because she has a faster 1st serve and can cover the net better than Serena. Her volleys seem more natural too.

And fast serves and volleys are the key to any match on grass.

If Venus played to her 100% potential, she'd be almost unbeatable on grass.

SJW
Jul 1st, 2004, 12:16 PM
I didn't know that the board was here to cater specifically to your needs.

Great thread, ignore whiners like the above idiot.

With each at their best, I'd say Venus, purely because she has a faster 1st serve and can cover the net better than Serena. Her volleys seem more natural too.

And fast serves and volleys are the key to any match on grass.

If Venus played to her 100% potential, she'd be almost unbeatable on grass.
i know you would LOVE to get into a bitching contest where we act like 12 year olds girls with immature arguments such as "you're an idiot", BUT my friend, you are the Queen of that :worship:, have much more experience of acting like a little girl, and not even I can match your untintelligence :)

so, carry on acting like a 6th grader, you do it so well :yeah:

Cybelle Darkholme
Jul 1st, 2004, 12:42 PM
What anyone thinks really doesnt matter. Go look a the stats. Who has the better record on grass? Then obviously that person is the better player on that surface.

Aaron.
Nov 12th, 2007, 10:36 PM
Venus I think :shrug:

canuckfan
Nov 12th, 2007, 11:04 PM
Venus I think :shrug:

You sure have a lot of time on your hands today, digging out all these old threads...