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View Full Version : Which Wil Happen First: Venus win another GS, Kim win 1st GS


Volcana
Apr 23rd, 2004, 07:06 PM
I know this is very like the other thread, but in that thread virtually everyone said they'd both win one. I'm asking who's gonna do it first, and WHEN will they do it.

Of course, you have to calculate in surface, injuries, and potential other competitors.

So for example, it's likelier that Venus will win RG '04 than Kim, because it's likelier Venus will play RG '04. But Kim made the final last year, while Venus lost inthe 4th round. So if Kim plays, it seems likelier SHE'LL win there. But you might expect it'll be Justine or Serena again.

I'm not asking if either should be the overall favorite, considering to other players won the last eight slams. Just comparing them to each other.

Of course, Venus and Kim have LOST the last eight straight finals. Venus was inthe '03 Wimbledon final, Kim has never made the WB final, but other than that, they've both been in the finals of all the majors. Venus has been in more finals, Kim has been more recently.

So who will win one first? And which one?

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 23rd, 2004, 07:07 PM
Venus will win one first I believe.

Volcana
Apr 23rd, 2004, 07:10 PM
Venus will win one first I believe.
Which one? Title AND year, just for fun.

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 23rd, 2004, 07:11 PM
Which one? Title AND year, just for fun.
Hmmm... that's tough to say. Wimbledon '04 :p

CJ07
Apr 23rd, 2004, 07:14 PM
Hmmm... that's tough to say. Wimbledon '04 :p
Definately Venus French Open '04.
Kim will win one eventually. But she needs to be 100% healthy, and mentally secure. None of which are the case right now...I think she'll definately be able to beat a Serena or even a Venus in a GS a lot easier than she would Justine.

Volcana
Apr 23rd, 2004, 07:23 PM
Definately Venus French Open '04.
Hope you're right. But Venus DID lose in the fourth round last year.

SJW
Apr 23rd, 2004, 07:24 PM
Venus

darrinbaker00
Apr 23rd, 2004, 07:28 PM
I think Venus will win her fifth before Kim wins her first, and it will be Roland Garros '04. Kim's best shot to win a major is in Australia, and she hasn't gotten it done the last two years. Venus' best shot has always been Wimbledon, but the window in Paris is open for her because (a) Kim's trying to play through a wrist injury and (b) Justine will probably be rusty from not playing for six weeks. Venus will likely win Roland Garros before she retires, but she'll never have a better opportunity than this year. ;)

CJ07
Apr 23rd, 2004, 07:30 PM
Hope you're right. But Venus DID lose in the fourth round last year.
Well Volcana, that is true. But over the years, I've been able to find some consistentcy in Venus's losses.

If you look at 90% of all her losses over the past 4 years to non-Williams players. All of them have been injury related. Some major, some minor. Some she was just off and her opponent was too good. That loss was the former.

I've always maintained that if Venus plays half way decent, and is injury free, She'll win everything she plays as long as she stays away from Serena. I'd say Justine too but she'll likely lose before gettting to Venus. Plus, for Justine, Venus is death. She HATES playing Venus, she said so herself.

As long as Venus can play within herself, and the field is the way it is now, She'll win the French Open without too much trouble.

But then again I could be wrong, and I'm incredibly biased.

sartrista7
Apr 23rd, 2004, 07:35 PM
I'd like to say Venus. I should be able to say Venus; of the Big Four, Kim's easily the weakest link - and it's not just 'a mental thing'. Compared with Serena, Justine and Venus, her game is one-dimensional and limited, and if she wants to play with them on her terms, not theirs, she will have to change her approach to the game. Unless the other three are still injury-ridden, she will win neither RG nor Wimbledon.

However, even then - I'm putting Kim as early favourite for the US Open. Of the Big Four, she's the only one not going to the Olympics - i.e. she is the only one *not* overplaying in this US Open Series thing, then taking a transatlantic flight to spend a week or two in Athens, then most probably playing emotional matches deep into the tournament, then flying back to the US with just a week to recover, emotionally, physically and mentally, for a Grand Slam. And what's more, I think Serena, Venus and Justine are all going to target the Olympic gold far more than another US Open crown - they've all been there, done that. I think Kim will be able to catch them in their Olympic comedown.

So - can Venus take RG or Wimbledon? She may win both, she may win one, she may win neither. That's all up in the air at the moment. We don't know how much the illness will affect Justine... we don't know if Serena's knee will keep playing up or not... and even though she won Charleston, we still don't know if Venus is back to Slam-winning form yet.

So, Kim at the USO '04. I'm not THAT confident in Vee yet.

Volcana
Apr 23rd, 2004, 07:40 PM
So, Kim at the USO '04. I'm not THAT confident in Vee yet.
I, of course, want Venus to win every slam til she retires, but that was incredibly well reasoned.

sartrista7
Apr 23rd, 2004, 07:43 PM
Kim's my least favourite player apart from Stevenson, who hardly qualifies as a tennis player and who is good for a laugh anyway. Venus is one of my favourite players. It's hardly what I WANT to happen.

I just can't get over the fact that just ONE WEEK separates the end of the Olympics from the start of the US Open.

darrinbaker00
Apr 23rd, 2004, 07:47 PM
However, even then - I'm putting Kim as early favourite for the US Open. Of the Big Four, she's the only one not going to the Olympics - i.e. she is the only one *not* overplaying in this US Open Series thing, then taking a transatlantic flight to spend a week or two in Athens, then most probably playing emotional matches deep into the tournament, then flying back to the US with just a week to recover, emotionally, physically and mentally, for a Grand Slam. And what's more, I think Serena, Venus and Justine are all going to target the Olympic gold far more than another US Open crown - they've all been there, done that. I think Kim will be able to catch them in their Olympic comedown.
I stand corrected. With the exception of this year, Kim's best shot at winning a major is in Australia. ;)

MrSerenaWilliams
Apr 23rd, 2004, 07:48 PM
That's easy! Venus has beaten every active player on tour that she's played!

She'll win #5 before Kim wins #1 Sorry Kim, I love you, but Venus got her fire back....the rest of the tour is in trouble!

Volcana
Apr 23rd, 2004, 08:43 PM
That's easy! Venus has beaten every active player on tour that she's played!

She'll win #5 before Kim wins #1 Sorry Kim, I love you, but Venus got her fire back....the rest of the tour is in trouble!
Last year's RG performance and Serena's possible presence are no factor at all?

Mrs. Peel
Apr 23rd, 2004, 10:02 PM
I say Venus first...Kim has had soooo many chances to get that first slam and she has just failed miserably each time. I wonder if she ever will get those chances again! I do hope Kim eventually gets a slam but I don't see it happening in the near future unless she changes a few things.

I hope Venus will get slam #5 at Wimbledon 04. She came so close last year! If she wasn't injured I believe she would have beaten Serena! Her performance against Kim was :worship: :worship: . Venus just loves the grass so much. She will rule there once again.

Dava
Apr 23rd, 2004, 10:06 PM
I wish Kim would win her first slam :sad:

moon
Apr 23rd, 2004, 10:09 PM
I'm not so sure I would consider Kimmy a lock for USO just yet.
The first week of the Slams is hardly a testing battleground. Most of the top
players could play their early matches on one leg ;). The girls in Athens may come back a little off, and we might even see an upset or two, but I don't think it will be Vee, Ree or JHH. Kimmy will still have her work cut out for her.

tennisIlove09
Apr 23rd, 2004, 10:13 PM
Venus. If she doesn't win the French (which would be shocking to me), she'll win Wimbledon.

Volcana
Apr 23rd, 2004, 10:14 PM
sartrista's reasoning about Kim and the US Open is quite compelling. She'll be rested, her wrist will have had plenty of time to heal, and her style is such that she doesn't play a lot of high risk shots, unlike Justine, Serena, Venus and Lindsay. (Yes they usually MAKE those shots, but they aim at the lines a lot, all four of them. Venus is the worst of the lot, but they all do it.)

The question is whether or not Venus win RG or WB first. Justine and Serena aren't going to feed her a lot of slices that slow down once they hit the ground and virtually invite her net, a la Conchi. And if Zvonareva has a brain, she's practicing offensive lobs right now.

Pureracket
Apr 23rd, 2004, 10:39 PM
Good posts here, but I've only seen one that mentioned Venus' injury last year @ the FO(=). This was such an injury that it was remarked afterwards by Venus and Serena that Venus should not have even played last year. That's not to take anything away from the player who beat Venus(though Venus has subsequently beaten the same player on grass and clay since that loss - in straight sets, no less).

This FedCup weekend should serve as a glorified practise session for Venus; in fact, I'm counting this weekend as more important than the other clay court tournies leading to the FO(=).

Stefwhit
Apr 23rd, 2004, 11:10 PM
Great question threadstarter! There are far too many x-factors to even make a resonable guess right now, so many things can happen that we just can't forsee right now, but just taking a stab in the dark I would actually have to say they're just about dead even in my eyes and just as likely to win. I think Venus' best shots are both at the French and Wimby, but the French is really just a big question mark right now. As for Wimby, I know a lot of Vee fans think Vee is the best on this stuff, but there are more than just a few Serena fans that don't think Vee can wrestle the title away from little sis no matter how well she's playing (assuming Serena is playing at her best). So if a healthy Serena is a factor at Wimbledon I don't think Vee's chances are that great. And although Vee has the best record at the US Open, she's just not the dominate player on that surface. Everyone knows that hardcourts are Serena's territory. In addition to that, so far in the season hardcourts have been the surface where Venus has seemed the most vulneralbe since her comeback. Which brings us to 2005 Australian Open and I think that'll be where Kim Clijsters wins her first major. I think this will probably happen before Vee wins a slam.

I think 2005 will be like 1999 with each slam being equally divided....Kim- Oz, Justine- French, Vee- Wimby, Serena- US Open and YEC... OK... I just really got way ahead of myself...lol, please forgive...

harloo
Apr 23rd, 2004, 11:11 PM
The problem with Kim winning the US Open is the question of whether she will be ready. Will she develop that knack for performing big in grand slam finals? Or will she choke away any opportunity.

I think at the US Open and Wimby the sisters have the advantage, but at AO and the FO Kim will be more likely to win her first one.

Stefwhit
Apr 23rd, 2004, 11:24 PM
I think at the US Open and Wimby the sisters have the advantage, but at AO and the FO Kim will be more likely to win her first one.
It's not "the sisters", it's Venus. I only bring that up because your reply totally answers another question entirely. Who's likely to win the first major Kim or Venus is way different than who's likely to win their first major Kim or the sisters....

tennnisfannn
Apr 24th, 2004, 04:56 AM
As of now, Venus could be in a position to win the FO first, if kim plays the next 2 red clay tournys before RG then we can better judge her. An injured wrist could get her to the semis, if she meets an injured serena, toss a coin. If Venus is healthy and playing well, advantage venus.
At wimbledon, if both playing healthy and well, advantage Venus.
But this much i also believe, when Kim wins her first slam, she will go on a tear and win two or three of four.

TeeRexx
Apr 24th, 2004, 05:17 AM
You are drawing a comparison to someone who has never won a GS title to someone who has been in 10 GS finals and won 4 of them? :confused:

If VENUS can not win a title, how in the hell is Kim going to pull off that minor miracle and defeat the finalst (probably SERENA)?

What will likely happen first:

1. VENUS will win multi GS titles
2. Clijsters will marry Hewie
3. Clijsters will have twins (#2 and #3 are interchangeable)
4. The U.S. will establish a colony on the moon
5. Clijsters will win that first GS title. :devil:

TR :cool:

tennisjunky
Apr 24th, 2004, 05:26 AM
You are drawing a comparison to someone who has never won a GS title to someone who has been in 10 GS finals and won 4 of them? :confused:
This time last year you could have said the same thing about Justine, but she's already one slam away from winning just as many as Venus- so that's not really a good argument. She's actually passed Venus in terms of winning three of the four slams. As for Kim I think everyone agrees it's just a matter of time and the same goes for Venus. As for which is more likely to happen first Id have to say Venus gets the edge there. Venus better have a plan for Serena though and Kim better have a plan for Justine or it may be a long time before either won wins a slam......

TeeRexx
Apr 24th, 2004, 05:35 AM
This time last year you could have said the same thing about Justine, but she's already one slam away from winning just as many as Venus- so that's not really a good argument. She's actually passed Venus in terms of winning three of the four slams. As for Kim I think everyone agrees it's just a matter of time and the same goes for Venus. As for which is more likely to happen first Id have to say Venus gets the edge there. Venus better have a plan for Serena though and Kim better have a plan for Justine or it may be a long time before either won wins a slam......
When Kim plays in five more slam finals against SERENA, maybe then we might have something to talk about. :eek: :wavey:

Volcana
Apr 24th, 2004, 05:48 AM
You are drawing a comparison to someone who has never won a GS title to someone who has been in 10 GS finals and won 4 of them? Among other things.

I also checking to see if people can think beyond who's their favorite, and judge how other factors might play out like

* what injuries/illnesses players have, and how it might affect them.

* What each players current form is.

* How have the individual players done against probable opponents.

* How each player has performed recently and historically on each surface.

Of course, all that's tough, so don't feel bad if you can't do it. Really. If all you can focus on is GS records when the last GS win for these two players was three years ago, I think it's important you do the best YOU can do. Speculating on the finer nuances of tennis and how they might play out isn't for everybody. It's kind of elitist, when you think about it.

Besides, GS records ARE important. Some people, for example, might focus on the fact that Kim has played in three of the last four GS finals, while Venus has only played in one of the last four. But that's SO simplistic. I prefer a more analytical approach. But definitely, it's most important to operate within your own abilities. Each individual is different, and everyone has something of value to offer.

You stick to the one thing you can understand and leave the other things to the rest of us. Who's to say that things like injuries, current form, surfaces and other opponents are even important in tennis?

Knizzle
Apr 24th, 2004, 05:49 AM
Kim's my least favourite player apart from Stevenson, who hardly qualifies as a tennis player and who is good for a laugh anyway. Venus is one of my favourite players. It's hardly what I WANT to happen.

I just can't get over the fact that just ONE WEEK separates the end of the Olympics from the start of the US Open.
Why does the Olympic thing bother you?? Just because of the travel??

Knizzle
Apr 24th, 2004, 06:01 AM
The logical choice is Venus. Kim has NEVER won a big match against a top player at a slam. The highest ranked player she has defeated at a slam was Davenport at #5 I believe. You just can't predict when a player will have a breakthrough win. Kimmy hasn't shown us any mental toughness or willingness to step outside her comfort zone. Kim's best chances will be at RG and AO in that order. Maybe Kim will win RG 05?? Things look good for Venus to have a good chance at RG 04 because she seems to be the healthiest of the big four right now. Kim, Serena, and Justine will play a combined 2 tournaments leading into RG. WB 04 will be tough because of Serena and US Open will be the toughest because of lil sis. Venus has tons more experience than Kimmy and frankly has more game than Cljisters.

TeeRexx
Apr 24th, 2004, 06:15 AM
Among other things.

I also checking to see if people can think beyond who's their favorite, and judge how other factors might play out like

This is an Internet tennis fan thread or have you forgotten or just were not told?

* what injuries/illnesses players have, and how it might affect them.

Kim is coming off a wrist injury, VENUS is coming off a clay court tile win. or did you you that little fact?

* What each players current form is.

* See previous entry *

* How have the individual players done against probable opponents.

The only active player to defeat VENUS in a GS final has been SERENA.

* How each player has performed recently and historically on each surface.

VENUS has been in an RG final, she usually beats Kim and she, as previously stated, has just won on clay.

Of course, all that's tough, so don't feel bad if you can't do it. Really. If all you can focus on is GS records when the last GS win for these two players was three years ago, I think it's important you do the best YOU can do. Speculating on the finer nuances of tennis and how they might play out isn't for everybody. It's kind of elitist, when you think about it.

I know that you like to think that you can live by the stats, but at some point, the players will have to get on the court and actually play and if stats and tradition held true, VENUS & SERENA would have been burnt out on the junior circuit and Hingis would still be running wild on the courts.

Besides, GS records ARE important. Some people, for example, might focus on the fact that Kim has played in three of the last four GS finals, while Venus has only played in one of the last four. But that's SO simplistic. I prefer a more analytical approach. But definitely, it's most important to operate within your own abilities. Each individual is different, and everyone has something of value to offer.

Some people might also take note, as many have, that the field is vastly watered down when a Williams is not in the field. Or have you noticed? Maybe that is too obvious for you to complicate in a facade for your obtuseness?

You stick to the one thing you can understand and leave the other things to the rest of us. Who's to say that things like injuries, current form, surfaces and other opponents are even important in tennis?
I realize that you are obstinate to realize that stats are many times just that, stats. According to you, Kim should have defeated VENUS in the 2003 Wimbey finals because she was injured, Kim was in better form and played well on grass.
Or were you too busy reading stats to even bother to watch the match? :confused: :eek: :p

Nice threads though, gives us something to read in between the tourneys.

Bye. :wavey:

Sam L
Apr 24th, 2004, 06:18 AM
Among other things.

I also checking to see if people can think beyond who's their favorite, and judge how other factors might play out like

* what injuries/illnesses players have, and how it might affect them.

* What each players current form is.

* How have the individual players done against probable opponents.

* How each player has performed recently and historically on each surface.

Of course, all that's tough, so don't feel bad if you can't do it. Really. If all you can focus on is GS records when the last GS win for these two players was three years ago, I think it's important you do the best YOU can do. Speculating on the finer nuances of tennis and how they might play out isn't for everybody. It's kind of elitist, when you think about it.

Besides, GS records ARE important. Some people, for example, might focus on the fact that Kim has played in three of the last four GS finals, while Venus has only played in one of the last four. But that's SO simplistic. I prefer a more analytical approach. But definitely, it's most important to operate within your own abilities. Each individual is different, and everyone has something of value to offer.

You stick to the one thing you can understand and leave the other things to the rest of us. Who's to say that things like injuries, current form, surfaces and other opponents are even important in tennis?
You make too much sense for the likes of TeeRexx. Alas, he's rather a simpleton, who belongs in "Serena is simply the best" threads.

:haha:

TeeRexx
Apr 24th, 2004, 06:32 AM
You make too much sense for the likes of TeeRexx. Alas, he's rather a simpleton, who belongs in "Serena is simply the best" threads.

:haha:
For one who has your propensity for mandacity I would not expect anymore from your carcass.

But, it was a good post coming from the likes of you. :)

Bye. :wavey:

tennisjunky
Apr 24th, 2004, 07:42 AM
Kim Clijsters
-bad news- Kim has NEVER won a big match against a top player at a slam.
-good news- 4 out of the last 5 slams shes played she has ONLY lost to the eventual winner
-bad news- The highest ranked player she has defeated at a slam was Davenport at #5
-good news- In the last 5 consecutive slams she hasn't lost to any player ranked lower than her
-bad news- She hasn't won a slam yet
-good news- She has posted wins against all the top players and she has reached the finals of 3 of the 4 slams

analysis- shes hungry and shes desperate to finally win a major, if healthy she will have the motivation to do good. The French may be too soon, but I think its her best shot at a slam this whole year. She wont be a big factor at Wimbledon with Serena, Justine, and Kim (even Lindsay) their games are more explosive and better suited for the grass. And at the US Open she may be the freshest one of the "Big Four" but there are too many other girls who favor the hardcourts so I dont see her winning there either. When the Australian Open starts a lot of players usually have to deal with rust, well Serena seems to be rust proof for the most part, but Kim seems to get into the groove of things pretty quickly so shes got a good shot there. Im not sure what plan Kim has to overcome Serena, but I think that will be her next big shot.

Venus
bad news- She hasn't won a slam since the end of 2001
good news- Winning slams in the past and reaching four consecutive finals prooves she plays her best at the slams
bad news- Of the "Big Four" shes the one who's most likely not to make it out of week one, based on her results this year and losing to lower ranked players.
good news- Since Wimbledon 2000 there have only been two times, after making it through the first week, that she hasn't reached the finals
bad news- Serena Williams
good news Serena's knee is a big question mark (I dont like putting that in the good new column, good for Venus but not for me and Serena).

analysis- I think Venus has a really good shot at the French, slightly better than Kim but I still dont see Venus getting past a healthy Serena. Which brings us to Wimbledon and I think thats Venus' best shot for a major the whole year. She still has do something she hasnt been able to do in a long time and thats beat Serena. US Open that looks good for Venus, but too much competition and I would always pick a healthy Serena over a healthy Venus any day. If Venus doesnt win a slam after Wimbledon I think Kim will win first.

Kim vs. Venus
advantage Venus- There head to heads have Venus at an advantage
advantage Kim- Kim has never lost to Venus on Clay, so at the French Kim could take her out
advantage Venus- She has beaten Kim the last two times they played
advantage Kim- She has never been beaten three times in a row by Venus
advantage Venus- She has a better record in the slams against the other top players
advantage Kim- Based on recent results, Kim has better a chance of not being upset early

Final Result: I say Venus is slightly more likely to win before Kim.

Volcana
Apr 24th, 2004, 02:16 PM
According to you, Kim should have defeated VENUS in the 2003 Wimbey finals because she was injured, Kim was in better form and played well on grass.

Or were you too busy reading stats to even bother to watch the match?
No, that's according to YOU. If I believed such a thing I'd have written it.

I like seeing how people think. Other people went ahead and made the comparison. Your intial response was to ridicule my thread. I don't NEED you. I don't need you pretending you're actually made the comaprisons you clearly weren't interested in making in the first place. You're EXACTLY the kind of 'rah rah my fave is best and nothing else matters' fan i always hope will avoid any thread that requires thinking.

I've long been aware you have no respect for me. It shows in your responses to my threads and that's fine. But by the same token, when I treat your answers as if all they show IS that disrespect, you shouldn't be surprised.

And you accusing ANYONE of 'mendacity' is a bit of a joke. It doesn't mean you're wrong about it every time. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. But you must admit it's a bit .... ironic?

Lady
Apr 24th, 2004, 03:28 PM
Kim Clijsters

-good news- In the last 5 consecutive slams she hasn't lost to any player ranked lower than her


Well, that's not true ;)

US Open 03 lost to #3 Justine while being #1 herself
Wimbledon 03 lost to #4 Venus, while being #2
RG 03 lost to #4 Justine, while being #2.

TeeRexx
Apr 24th, 2004, 06:13 PM
No, that's according to YOU. If I believed such a thing I'd have written it.

I like seeing how people think. Other people went ahead and made the comparison. Your intial response was to ridicule my thread. I don't NEED you. I don't need you pretending you're actually made the comaprisons you clearly weren't interested in making in the first place. You're EXACTLY the kind of 'rah rah my fave is best and nothing else matters' fan i always hope will avoid any thread that requires thinking.

I've long been aware you have no respect for me. It shows in your responses to my threads and that's fine. But by the same token, when I treat your answers as if all they show IS that disrespect, you shouldn't be surprised.

And you accusing ANYONE of 'mendacity' is a bit of a joke. It doesn't mean you're wrong about it every time. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. But you must admit it's a bit .... ironic?
Damn! Does this mean that you will not send me an X-mas card this year? :eek: :sad:

Sorry, that you got the impression that I did not respect your ass because I do voice my feelings quite clearly as you should know by now. At any rate, I originally came on the boards trying to give technical hints and expertise, but, in general, members just wanted to talk up their fans, which I thought was great. However, I have too much experience with tennis as a player, competitor and instructor to waste my time with those not interested, so I come on the board for fun.

Now, I seem to surmise that you either haven't been an athletic competitor or you weren't aware of the nuances of the sport when you did compete, but you are missing obvious points if you want to compare VENUS and Kim on any tennis level.

After the loss to Hingis, the main signigicant difficulties that VENUS has encountered in the GS events and finals were injuries and her little sister.

Kim has shown a fatal flaw in her tennis game, choking. Is THAT fact in your stats? If not, then they are significantly deficient because that weakness may be the factor that could lead to her ending her career slamless becuase she has lost finals to 3 different players.

But what the hell do I know?

jenny161185
Apr 24th, 2004, 06:24 PM
Kim will win RG 04 and Venus will win Wimby 04 :)

shap_half
Apr 24th, 2004, 07:32 PM
Justine, Venus is death. She HATES playing Venus, she said so herself.

As long as Venus can play within herself, and the field is the way it is now, She'll win the French Open without too much trouble.

But then again I could be wrong, and I'm incredibly biased.

Should we put an asterisk because the best clay court player is injured!!!!! GASP!! :shrug:

LindsayRocks89
Apr 24th, 2004, 07:43 PM
Venus has a pretty good chance to win any of the grandslams for the rest of the year, but i don't see kimmie winning one this year

Volcana
Apr 24th, 2004, 07:47 PM
But what the hell do I know?
Thanks for reminding me. There IS an ignore list isn't there. See ya.

Knizzle
Apr 24th, 2004, 10:40 PM
Should we put an asterisk because the best clay court player is injured!!!!! GASP!! :shrug:
Not when that clay court player isn't dominant on clay and has a 1-7 record against the player in question.

SJW
Apr 24th, 2004, 10:46 PM
Not when that clay court player isn't dominant on clay and has a 1-7 record against the player in question.:tape:

New_balls_please
Apr 24th, 2004, 10:51 PM
Venus will win RG this year, I think

New_balls_please
Apr 24th, 2004, 10:52 PM
I think Kim will win 2 RG and 2 AUS OPEN

sartrista7
Apr 24th, 2004, 10:55 PM
Not when that clay court player isn't dominant on clay and has a 1-7 record against the player in question.

Just like in 2002, then, when the eventual RG champ had not been dominant on clay and had a 1-5 record against her opponent in the final!

Not to mention the 2000 Wimbledon champion's 4-9 record (0-3 in Slams) against the then No 1, and her 3-9 record (0-2 in Slams) against the then No 2 going into that tournament - yet she beat them both!

Oh, and let's not forget the 2001 Australian Open winner's 0-5 record against the then No 1, and 1-5 record against the then No 2, going into it - and, you guessed it, she beat them both!

;)

TeeRexx
Apr 24th, 2004, 11:00 PM
Thanks for reminding me. There IS an ignore list isn't there. See ya.
Well, I guess this is farewell, my dear friend. :sad:

Oh well, such is life.

Bye, bye. :wavey: :devil:

Knizzle
Apr 25th, 2004, 12:25 AM
Just like in 2002, then, when the eventual RG champ had not been dominant on clay and had a 1-5 record against her opponent in the final!

Not to mention the 2000 Wimbledon champion's 4-9 record (0-3 in Slams) against the then No 1, and her 3-9 record (0-2 in Slams) against the then No 2 going into that tournament - yet she beat them both!

Oh, and let's not forget the 2001 Australian Open winner's 0-5 record against the then No 1, and 1-5 record against the then No 2, going into it - and, you guessed it, she beat them both!

;)
All this work you did and it means nothing. It doesn't have anything to do with what shap_half and I were talking about.

tennisjunky
Dec 20th, 2004, 09:56 PM
Some time has passed since this thread was originally started, i wonder if it is still as equally likely for Kim to win her fisrt slam as it is for Venus to win another slam.

Kim Clijsters
-bad news- Kim has missed the last three slams
-good news- In the last 5 slams that Kim did play she has only lost to either the eventual champ or eventual finalist
-bad news- She is coming back from an injury so she will likely need time to be match ready, maybe even the first 2/3 of the season
-good news- Kim has always been one of the most consistent players on tour, she rarely losses to lower ranked players especially in the slams
-bad news- All of Kim's major threats to winning her first slam are all ranked higher than her, she faces pottentially difficult early round matches
-good news- There won't be any pressure on her in the first couple of slams, she can really take advantage and move under the radar

analysis: she is hungry and she is desperate to finally win a major, but right now she is probably just thankful to be able to play. this is great news in that it could really motivate her to do well, but it is bad news in the sense of maybe not having the same hunger she had for her first slam, especially early on. When the Australian Open starts a lot of players usually have to deal with rust, it is a perfect time for her to make her comeback, assuming she is 100%.

Venus
bad news- She has not won a slam since the end of 2001 and has not even reached a semi-final of a slam in over a year
good news- Winning slams in the past has to give her something good to draw from for inspiration
bad news- None of the players fear her, which makes them more confident when they face her.
good news- She has had one of her worst seasons to date and yet she still ended the year ranked in the top ten, she can build on that
bad news- She went the whole year without beating a single top ten player
good news She is ready to start a new season and put last year behind her

analysis: her health is always a concern and a question mark so a lot of how her year turns out will be tied to how she is doing physically. if she is healthy she will be more confident and the more confident she is the better she will play. I think she is always a factor in the slams and although i dont see her winning Australian, but al the players are working out the early kinks so she has a shot. i think her best shot is at the French, i admit it sounds weird but the french was her best slam result all of this year. Wimbledon and the US are going to be tough, but if she is up for the challenge anything can happen.

Kim vs. Venus
advantage Venus- There head to heads have Venus at an advantage
advantage Kim- they have not played in over a year and a lot of players that struggled with venus in the past have had better results lately
advantage Venus- She has beaten Kim the last two times they played
advantage Kim- Venus has never been beaten Kim three times in a row
advantage Venus- Kim is fresh off an injury
advantage Kim- Based on recent results, Kim has better a chance of not being upset early

Final Result: I now say Kim is slightly more likely to win before Venus.

Leo_DFP
Dec 21st, 2004, 12:43 AM
Clijsters, possibly in 2005.

mboyle
Dec 21st, 2004, 02:40 AM
Venus and Capriati should have won Roland Garros this year. Much more the former should have. Oh well.

DEETHELICK
Dec 21st, 2004, 08:20 AM
What an poignant thread. After 2003, leading into 2004, I have to say I really don't know.

Venus is on the comeback. But she is stubborn in refusing to make changes; mainly to her forehand. She has a much more all court game than most players and possesses nice touch. Its such a shame as she was building up great momentum on the clay.

Kim has a serious injury and the competitive nature of todays game will make her return harder. However I do not think she will find it as hard as the Williamses did when they returned as Kim's technical game is very solid and I think she will regain her consistency pretty quickly.

Look at her performance in Belgium, she beat Maleeva indoors.

Right now, I'd put my money on Amelie or Elena D winning a Slam first.

Sharapova's_Boy
Dec 21st, 2004, 12:42 PM
Kim, because I'm Bias. :p

Kimikim
Dec 21st, 2004, 03:40 PM
i think they won't win any GS next yr, but that's just my opinion..... maybe they will win GS in 2006 or 2007, 2008, 2009....
who will b first?? let's see how kim's injury and venus’ game improve ..........:) next yr can b the preparation 4 vee to win GS in 2006, when kim will probably can’t do very well and won’t have enough preparations to win GS, maybe her mental will b still “down” cos of the troubles she had this yr…. But if her injury recovers soon (before the supposition) and won’t bother her again i think she will be able to find her brilliant game easily.

tennisjunky
Feb 2nd, 2005, 07:41 PM
im still leaning with kim, although i think venus does have a real shot at this years french. its going to be tough for either one at this point, but i think both have their best chance at the next major. venus is not aggressive enough for the green stuff any more, too many people can now out hit her and until she fixes the forehand i think that wimbledon is out. so im predicting a french title for either kim or venus, they'll both be my wildcards this year.

Sanneriet
Feb 2nd, 2005, 07:50 PM
At this point (Feb. 2005) I'd have to go with Venus. I think it will be the US Open before Kim really gets up to speed. Venus played well in the Molik match and I think she is really ready.

Prizeidiot
Feb 3rd, 2005, 05:21 AM
I'd say Venus.... Kim is probably a better player, but I'm no sure how her injury will go. It could be career threatening... so it's hard to rate her chances in the near future.

2284
Feb 3rd, 2005, 06:27 AM
From Kim's recent interviews it seems that she is hungry to play again. Only a few weeks until we get to see what her form is like now

John.
Feb 3rd, 2005, 07:20 AM
Kim.

oddkayla
Feb 3rd, 2005, 08:13 AM
So Prizeidiot, you think Kim is a better player than Venus?

That is very interesting. I must have missed that one somewhere!!

ans
Feb 3rd, 2005, 09:32 AM
those old threads being digged up agai...kind of confusing:)

Anyway, I think Kim too, though we should wait for her first matches actually.

sartrista7
Feb 3rd, 2005, 10:23 AM
Wow, almost a year on and still neither has happened.

What's interesting is that the odds of neither happening at all are steadily increasing, to the point where if you told me that neither Venus nor Kim would never win a Slam again it wouldn't actually surprise me... whereas even last year it would have been unthinkable.

A'DAM
Feb 3rd, 2005, 10:39 AM
Im affraid none of it will happend :o

ans
Feb 3rd, 2005, 12:31 PM
Wow, almost a year on and still neither has happened.
well, there's a small difference between venus' and kim's 2004 season. Kim didn't play from March till the end of the season (it's hard winning a slam then), Venus did.

davidmario
Feb 3rd, 2005, 12:39 PM
I'm not sure who will win a major first. But I suppose both will win at least one more.

CanIGetAWhat
Jul 2nd, 2005, 09:13 PM
I'm so happy for Venus! :D

SJW
Jul 2nd, 2005, 09:18 PM
Venus

i want to do a Lizchris and one of those "just as i predicted....." things

manu32
Jul 3rd, 2005, 11:41 AM
maybe kim if lindsay is not in her draw......