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View Full Version : where would lucic be if she continued to develop and progress like she was earlier in


Gowza
Apr 22nd, 2004, 02:58 AM
her career? the year she reached the semis was the year that clijsters played graf in the 4th round wasnt it? and also the year dokic made the QF and stevenson got to the semis? not sure about dokic and stevenson but i'm pretty sure that clijsters lost to graf in the 4th round the year lucic got to the semis. anyway look at clijsters now, one of the very top players. where would lucic be now if she had continued the way she was?

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:03 AM
If her life was normal, she'd definitely be in the top 10 right now. I have no doubt about that.

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:10 AM
Is Dokic life normal? Was Pierce life normal? Her results since a couple of years are so mediocre; her personal life is not an excuse.

How could we possibly know, take any player, there's no way to tell where she would be if she would have continue to develop and progress.
Sigh. :rolleyes: Never have I seen a poster contradict himself more.

No, Dokic's life isn't normal, and neither was Mary's... And that's why they struggle. Lucic as well. The point you made proves that your personal life IS A FACTOR.

Gowza
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:12 AM
im not saying it is an excuse i was just asking what everyone thinks about it. no dokic doesnt have a normal life and henin had it pretty tough growing up.

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:13 AM
im not saying it is an excuse i was just asking what everyone thinks about it. no dokic doesnt have a normal life and henin had it pretty tough growing up.
But it is an excuse though. Her problems didn't let her develop properly. When Steffi Graf compliments you they way she did Lucic, you know you got talent, and she has TONS.

Viva Mirjana, I still have hope.

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:17 AM
Yeah, right, Pierce is struggling so much that she won 2 slams and is one of the best player of the tour since 10 years.

And Dokic is still a top player, unlike Mirjana, last time I checked.
Pierce got fat, and now she's nothing. And as much as I hate to say it, Dokic IS NOT a top player, and she has proven that over and over...

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:20 AM
And? How is it relevant to the discussion...? She's reaching the end of her career.


You might not considered her as a top player, but she has a decent ranking and is still able to win matches.It's relevant to the conversation because Lucic got fat as well... and then was never the same.

And Dokic only has a high ranking because of a couple of good events. She loses more than she wins, and she loses to players ranked extremely low... not a sign of a top player... and if you still think she is one, you're only kidding yourself.

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:29 AM
"It's relevant to the conversation because Lucic got fat as well... and then was never the same."

Pierce was still able to reach the final of a Tier II this year.

"And Dokic only has a high ranking because of a couple of good events."

Well at least she's good in a couple of events.

Just face it, since 6 years or more, Lucic did nothing. Absolutely NOTHING. Not one decent tournement. If she's so talented, as Graf says, how come she's never able to at least have a couple of good tournements?
WOW!!! A TIER 2 FINAL!!! :rolleyes: She isn't a factor in tennis anymore.

And I don't care if Jelena had a couple of good events. Bottom line is, she sucks compared to how she was when she was with her father. And she isn't even much of a factor anymore, at least 95% of the time.

And I know Lucic didn't do shit for a while, but that doesn't mean she isn't/wasn't talented. If you saw her Wimbledon run, you'd know she was talented. She also won her first ever WTA event. She has A LOT of talent.

- L i n a -
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:33 AM
All I know with Mirjana... is that she's a really sad story.

Nobody can deny that she had incredible talent.

Gowza
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:35 AM
she laso made the 3rd round of RG a few years ago.

- L i n a -
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:35 AM
Probably even more impressive was Mirjana's 2nd tournament in Strasbourg, where she lost to Graf in the final, but knocked out some top players... all while Mirjana was 15.

Even when Venus double-bageled Mirjana at 02 US Open... you could still tell Mirjana had the most power on tour.

Just sad... I wish I knew what's holding her back.

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:36 AM
"WOW!!! A TIER 2 FINAL!!! :rolleyes:"

Yes, wow. It's something that Lucic would currently DREAM to achieve.

"And she isn't even much of a factor anymore, at least 95% of the time."

We're talking about a woman ranked 19 in the world. It's not bad if you ask me.

"If you saw her Wimbledon run, you'd know she was talented."

It's ONE tournement. Something like SEVEN years ago.

I mean, of course the girl has talent. Every player in the top 300 has talent. But she's overrated - and needless to say that she is no top 10 material. Just because she's more powerful than other players doesn't make her more talented.
Lucic can dream all she wants. :) Point is, Pierce isn't a factor anymore. It's not hard to understand.

She's not ranked 19 because she has had good results. Her results suck and everyon knows it, so I don't even understand why you are arguing.

And she has tons of talent, and nothing you can say will change that. Anyone with ANY tennis sense would know she has a lot.

- L i n a -
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:36 AM
Can someone explain to me how hitting the ball as hard as you can is "talent"? It might work for a while when you're young, fit and fearless, but to me she's just another average brainless power player.
Power is most definitely a talent...

Just look at Sharapova... her entire game is based on power.

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:39 AM
It is when you're able to win consistently with your power, like Seles does. When you hit the ball as hard as you can and have a good tournement once every 3 years, it's not talent to me.
Cool Canuck, please stop being stupid. Her results as a youngster prove how good she was/should be now. Stop talking out of your ass. :bs:

Gowza
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:40 AM
back when she was 15 these 'good' tournaments happened a lot more frequently.

faboozadoo15
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:42 AM
the thing is, shes very talented, but how messed up could her life be? and why is it beyond her to move past things and become stronger? i don't know a whole lot about her situations, but we are talking YEARS not like a slump dokic is in. and btw, getting to #4 in the world is no mistake... and she's still in the top 20 learning how to deal with things and maybe she'll get back there. but even if there are severe problems in her life, i'd think she'd have more to show for her career by now... it's really sad actually that something has kept her from doing anything. i mean what does she do day to day??? can you possibly be that consumed with a problem that you wouldn't escape to your tennis?

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:43 AM
the thing is, shes very talented, but how messed up could her life be? and why is it beyond her to move past things and become stronger? i don't know a whole lot about her situations, but we are talking YEARS not like a slump dokic is in. and btw, getting to #4 in the world is no mistake... and she's still in the top 20 learning how to deal with things and maybe she'll get back there. but even if there are severe problems in her life, i'd think she'd have more to show for her career by now... it's really sad actually that something has kept her from doing anything. i mean what does she do day to day??? can you possibly be that consumed with a problem that you wouldn't escape to your tennis?
I agree... but something went really wrong, and only Mirjana knows what that is.

faboozadoo15
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:44 AM
Do you want me to start about Sharapova LOL.
i know a whole lot of girls who would trade places with her in a hot second... she's been rising since she picked up the racquet, no stalling in the rankings, no slump. sure, she's a little inconsistent, and she doesn't have a huge win, but she's barely 17 and in the top 20. i'd say pretty damn good...

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:44 AM
"Lucic can dream all she wants. :) Point is, Pierce isn't a factor anymore. It's not hard to understand."

Point is, Pierce is still able to win matches. It's not hard to understand.

"Her results suck and everyon knows it, so I don't even understand why you are arguing."

I'm not arguing; just pointing out that she has enough talent to have a good result once in a while to stay in the top 30.

"And she has tons of talent, and nothing you can say will change that. Anyone with ANY tennis sense would know she has a lot."

My tennis sense tell me her "tons of talent" would help her to have some good results sometimes.
I give up Cool Canuck. You're too thick-headed to talk to.

faboozadoo15
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:45 AM
I agree... but something went really wrong, and only Mirjana knows what that is.

that's obviously no huge surprise... i'd loe to see her back out there, and maybe we will... stepping back out there is the first step. then again, people say she only did that to stay ranked, but what advantage is that??? does she have sponsors?

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:46 AM
i know a whole lot of girls who would trade places with her in a hot second... she's been rising since she picked up the racquet, no stalling in the rankings, no slump. sure, she's a little inconsistent, and she doesn't have a huge win, but she's barely 17 and in the top 20. i'd say pretty damn good...
Exactly...

But Cool Canuck thinks you have to be as good as Seles to be considered a talented power player. So don't bother arguing with him...

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:47 AM
that's obviously no huge surprise... i'd loe to see her back out there, and maybe we will... stepping back out there is the first step. then again, people say she only did that to stay ranked, but what advantage is that??? does she have sponsors?
The match report that PatM gave said she was moving great, and fighting hard, and she spoke to her coach and knew it would take some time. Perhaps she is really going to commit herself now. I never give up on my faves, I can't...

And that includes Mirjana... and Dokic for that matter.

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:48 AM
And her results since 6 years prove how much she sucks. It works both way.
Yes, seeing as how she was a Wimbledon semifinalist 5 years ago... genius. :rolleyes:

- L i n a -
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:49 AM
Do you want me to start about Sharapova LOL.
I've started enough about her. :p

But, by just having a power game... Masha is a Top 20 player... although, that's not saying much these days.

It's hard to comment on Mirjana... because nobody really knows why she isn't reaching her potential.

Gowza
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:50 AM
Exactly...

But Cool Canuck thinks you have to be as good as Seles to be considered a talented power player. So don't bother arguing with him...
lol u know wats funny about that? lucic beat seles at wimbledon.

faboozadoo15
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:50 AM
hell i think even seles would love to switch places with maria... ahh to be 17 again with a taller thinner frame, imagine what she could do with her daddy coaching her...

but monica IS the standard for power playing as a single dimension. the reason for that is she wins/won (whatever) so frequently without playing a single slice. her power is just that good, so consistent, so dominating. if you're going to be one dimensional you better learn to do it like monica. you need to know all the angles on the court, anticipate well, always be balanced. it's really a lot to live up to.

mirjana, maria, and dokic (and many more) all say that they follow seles for a reason. (that may be incorrect if mirjana claims steffi was her fav, but she plays nothing like her...)

faboozadoo15
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:51 AM
lol u know wats funny about that? lucic beat seles at wimbledon.
one match, on grass, youzas, i hear champagne corks popping.

not to take anything away from her or anything of course, but she didn't exactly stay around for monica to get her back ;)

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:51 AM
I never said that. :wavey:
After Leena said 'Power is a talent', you said...

It is when you're able to win consistently with your power, like Seles does. :wavey:

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:53 AM
Wow, at this rate, she should have a decent result again in 2006, and a last one in 2011 before she retires.
I'm not talking about how good she is now, or when she will have a good result. But she had TONS of talent as a youngster, and you just can't seem to accept that.

faboozadoo15
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:56 AM
yur really hard on masha, she DOES have talent... how can you say she doesn't?

but i do agree with what you say about mirjana, she should have something kinda recent or do something when she plays if she's as good as people say she is.

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:56 AM
"But, by just having a power game... Masha is a Top 20 player... although, that's not saying much these days."

Exactly, you can reach the top 20 with power and very little talent. Ask Brenda Schultz or Alexandra Stevenson.

"It's hard to comment on Mirjana... because nobody really knows why she isn't reaching her potential."

No doubt that she's not reaching her potential, but if she would be as good as people pretend, she would still be able to have good results sometimes, despite being out of shape or having personal problems.
Alot of the skill she had went away though.

bello
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:58 AM
she would have enjoyed a good stint in the top ten. probly still be there.

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 22nd, 2004, 03:58 AM
yur really hard on masha, she DOES have talent... how can you say she doesn't?

but i do agree with what you say about mirjana, she should have something kinda recent or do something when she plays if she's as good as people say she is.
The thing is she lost her skill somehow, and her confidence is shot I think. Her talent and skill level is nowhere near where it used to be. It's not that she's not good enough to have a good result every now and then... it's that she's just not the same player at all.

Gowza
Apr 22nd, 2004, 04:01 AM
"But, by just having a power game... Masha is a Top 20 player... although, that's not saying much these days."

Exactly, you can reach the top 20 with power and very little talent. Ask Brenda Schultz or Alexandra Stevenson.

"It's hard to comment on Mirjana... because nobody really knows why she isn't reaching her potential."

No doubt that she's not reaching her potential, but if she would be as good as people pretend, she would still be able to have good results sometimes, despite being out of shape or having personal problems.
she hasnt exactly played very much so she hasnt had the opportunity to have some good results. now, obviously it was her choice not to play unless she was injured and couldnt but she didnt play much last year at all however the couple of times she did she did show that she could still play a bit. she took a set of someone in qualies and i remember she played dechy not sure what that scoreline was though. just because a player doesnt have good results doesnt make them overrated talent wise it might just mean they havent reached their potential but that doesnt mean they are overrated in terms of talent (however they can be overrated in terms of how well they are playing at the current time). you cant lose talent you are born with it.

Gowza
Apr 22nd, 2004, 04:02 AM
skill is lost by not practising and/or playing much either due to injury or choice. also lack of motivation can be a factor.

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 22nd, 2004, 04:02 AM
she hasnt exactly played very much so she hasnt had the opportunity to have some good results. now, obviously it was her choice not to play unless she was injured and couldnt but she didnt play much last year at all however the couple of times she did she did show that she could still play a bit. she took a set of someone in qualies and i remember she played dechy not sure what that scoreline was though. just because a player doesnt have good results doesnt make them overrated talent wise it might just mean they havent reached their potential but that doesnt mean they are overrated in terms of talent (however they can be overrated in terms of how well they are playing at the current time). you cant lose talent you are born with it.
I agree with the entire post... except somehow Mirjana lost something that she used to have, and it's a shame...

WhatTheDeuce
Apr 22nd, 2004, 04:03 AM
skill is lost by not practising and/or playing much either due to injury or choice. also lack of motivation can be a factor.
This could be it. Who knows, though.

Gowza
Apr 22nd, 2004, 04:15 AM
yes it could be it or it might not. who knows, i agree. mirjana and those close to her i guess are the only ones that really know.

Gowza
Apr 22nd, 2004, 04:26 AM
ok enough arguing how about we show mirjana our support aye. GO MIRJANA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gowza
Apr 22nd, 2004, 04:31 AM
I agree, but at the same time... With time, results should overall reflect your talent.

I can't help to think people insist so much on Lucic talent simply because she happens to be the most powerful player of the tour and was impressive to watch when she was on. If Lucic would have a game similar to Tauziat (not really impressive but effective), I doubt people would really care that much about her now.
yes time should reflect talent however if the player doesnt play matches then they cant show how much or how little talent they have. and her power doesnt really influence me. when i saw her during that wimbledon run i never noticed that she had much more power than the other players, however everyone else said even back then she did have more power than most players. lol maybe its me. GO MIRJANA!!!!!

Gowza
Apr 22nd, 2004, 05:14 AM
jewel peterson supposedly hits harder than lucic and she doesnt have many fans. if people think power is it and it alone then they wouldnt support mirjana. mirjana use to have great angles and was quick around the court. maybe she has lost some skill but she has talent and talent wise i dont think she is overrated. currently obviously she shouldnt be considered a player who should be in the top 100 top 50 or top 10, she isnt playing that well it doesnt mean she doesnt have the talent to do so however at this time and for the past few years she hasnt played at the high level she once did. i didnt make this thread to say she had an excuse as to why she is playing so poorly and ranked so low now. i was simply curious of peoples opinion on her talent.

mariok
Apr 22nd, 2004, 11:21 PM
jewel peterson supposedly hits harder than lucic and she doesnt have many fans. if people think power is it and it alone then they wouldnt support mirjana. mirjana use to have great angles and was quick around the court. maybe she has lost some skill but she has talent and talent wise i dont think she is overrated. currently obviously she shouldnt be considered a player who should be in the top 100 top 50 or top 10, she isnt playing that well it doesnt mean she doesnt have the talent to do so however at this time and for the past few years she hasnt played at the high level she once did. i didnt make this thread to say she had an excuse as to why she is playing so poorly and ranked so low now. i was simply curious of peoples opinion on her talent.

Great post! It's exactly what I mean. Now, you cannot be 15 years old and win the first wta tournament you get in- the youngest ever to do so, I think. And defend it the year after. And get in the semis of Wimbledon. And be a doubles winner in Oz. Now, she isn't a good player, that's for sure- but she is talented, that was your question,right? It's not only about hitting the ball as hard as you can, anyone who saw Mirjana play her best now that. It's sad that her personal life made her career go down. As far as I've heard, her mother talked to the press about how they wanted to go back home to Croatia, but father threatend to kill them. Now,even if it's not true, and I truly hope and beleive it's not- her private life is/was completely f***ed up! Don,'t you think? It's sad, I hope she's a bit more mature now and capable of dealing better with her PRIVATE problems, and- who knows- maybe dealing with her tennis' problems as well. Wishing all the best! ;)

Gowza
Apr 22nd, 2004, 11:52 PM
you know in a way i think dealing with her tennis problems will help her get over her private problems. if she has something else on her mind rather than just her private problems in combination with getting out and about and doing things then i think playing tennis seriously again will also help her with her private problems. i have bad depression and been suicidal and recently seeked medical help for it. i know i'm not in the same situation as mirjana but they all said get out and about and do things. go out and do things because it brings up your confidence. now the next step is debate able. a job, should someone depressed be pushed into getting a job. well my psychiatrist says no and she says i shouldnt be working atm, my gp although not an expert on the subject his frame of mind is give it ago sort of thing. i havent felt like working for a long time (although i was working part of that time anyway) the other day just applied to a full-time position and got an interview, dont know if i got the job or not yet however even though my thoughts are still, i dont want the job confidence wise it has helped my depression and i dont think about the little things as much anymore so it is helping me get over it. so that is why i think tennis may help mirjana if she goes out and gives it ago. if she loves tennis and makes achieveable goals starting small and then gradually bigger ones as she improves then she will get some confidence back and confidence helps in many ways with confidence you can handle a lot more.

mariok
Apr 23rd, 2004, 12:09 AM
Sorry to hear that... But, it's all up to you, everyone's life is in their hands. Go out with people, work, turn the music on and dance when nobody's watching, write, each day do something to help someone you care about, go for a walk, enjoy the sun, do some sports. I think the worst thing anyone can do, when facing a psychological problem, is to sit at home and do nothing. Make a list of things you've always wanted to do- big things, small things, important things, silly things- and start doing it today!! :wavey:

All the best 2u!

Gowza
Apr 23rd, 2004, 02:14 AM
Sorry to hear that... But, it's all up to you, everyone's life is in their hands. Go out with people, work, turn the music on and dance when nobody's watching, write, each day do something to help someone you care about, go for a walk, enjoy the sun, do some sports. I think the worst thing anyone can do, when facing a psychological problem, is to sit at home and do nothing. Make a list of things you've always wanted to do- big things, small things, important things, silly things- and start doing it today!! :wavey:

All the best 2u!
you dont have to be sorry, i know its up to me thanx for the support tho. but can we keep this thread about mirjana :) i shared what i did to explain that focusing on tennis again could really help mirjana with her private problems which when it comes down to it is the most important.