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CoryAnnAvants#1
Apr 7th, 2004, 12:17 AM
Take a look at this

Marissa Irvin-OUT in first round 6-3 6-2
Samantha Reeves-OUT in first round 6-3 7-5
Jennifer Hopkins-OUT in first round 6-0 6-0

So Martina did better than any of them...and all three of those players have had LOTS of chances with wild cards as well. She's not depriving anyone of anything. She's not taking the place of somebody who can get in on her own ranking.

This was her first singles match in TWO YEARS and her first match on clay in TEN. Give the woman a chance before you start writing her off.

She certainly didn't embarass herself out there. You couldn't find another 47 year old woman who could take a set off a player in the top 100.

- L i n a -
Apr 7th, 2004, 12:19 AM
I agree completely.

Philbo
Apr 7th, 2004, 12:20 AM
Amen to that.

Most of the 'haters' are just bitter fans of other players whom Martina has said stuff about, so they just jump onto anything and bitch about whatever they can, using pathetic reasons such as 'stealing wildcards' from youngsters to criticise..

They will find their reasons to bitch, true fans of the game appreciate Martina.

arcus
Apr 7th, 2004, 01:13 AM
Take a look at this

Marissa Irvin-OUT in first round 6-3 6-2
Samantha Reeves-OUT in first round 6-3 7-5
Jennifer Hopkins-OUT in first round 6-0 6-0

So Martina did better than any of them...and all three of those players have had LOTS of chances with wild cards as well. She's not depriving anyone of anything. She's not taking the place of somebody who can get in on her own ranking.

This was her first singles match in TWO YEARS and her first match on clay in TEN. Give the woman a chance before you start writing her off.

She certainly didn't embarass herself out there. You couldn't find another 47 year old woman who could take a set off a player in the top 100.


Have to agree with you......

people seemed to think that that match was the only reckoner. Its her 3rd competitive tour match sinc e1984 for goodness sake!

Personally I think its facinating seeing how she stacks up.

That said I dont think she is going to win too many matches this season. I think it would take her a year or two to get back in a singles rhythm, like it did in doubles. It would have been more interesting to have seen her play singles last year.

I love the statement that she making, like you should push the boundries in every part of your life, and think about the possibilities rather than your limitations. For her that means ignoring her age, for everyone else it could mean something else

So what if she doesn't excel, at least she can say that she gave it a shot..... In a sense it takes huge courage for someone in her position to risk failing, which realistically she is going to do........

Shes just still out there pushing back boundries. .. :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Philbo
Apr 7th, 2004, 01:15 AM
Great post. Good to see this board isnt compltely full of wankers







Have to agree with you......

people seemed to think that that match was the only reckoner. Its her 3rd competitive tour match sinc e1984 for goodness sake!

Personally I think its facinating seeing how she stacks up.

That said I dont think she is going to win too many matches this season. I think it would take her a year or two to get back in a singles rhythm, like it did in doubles. It would have been more interesting to have seen her play singles last year.

I love the statement that she making, like you should push the boundries in every part of your life, and think about the possibilities rather than your limitations. For her that means ignoring her age, for everyone else it could mean something else

So what if she doesn't excel, at least she can say that she gave it a shot..... In a sense it takes huge courage for someone in her position to risk failing, which realistically she is going to do........

Shes just still out there pushing back boundries. .. :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

XaDavK_Kapri
Apr 7th, 2004, 01:16 AM
:yeah:

arcus
Apr 7th, 2004, 01:32 AM
Great post. Good to see this board isnt compltely full of wankers

ROFL, people dont use the word "wankers" enough. Love it. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

alextreiber04
Apr 7th, 2004, 01:34 AM
Yes...I still understand the fuck why Marissa Irvin, Jennifer Hopkins, and Samantha Reeves got WC's over Shenay Perry :rolleyes: They haven't done shit...except for Marissa 'I only play well in 1 tournament a year' Irvin.

St.Sebastian
Apr 7th, 2004, 01:36 AM
Take a look at this

Marissa Irvin-OUT in first round 6-3 6-2
Samantha Reeves-OUT in first round 6-3 7-5
Jennifer Hopkins-OUT in first round 6-0 6-0

So Martina did better than any of them...and all three of those players have had LOTS of chances with wild cards as well. She's not depriving anyone of anything. She's not taking the place of somebody who can get in on her own ranking.

This was her first singles match in TWO YEARS and her first match on clay in TEN. Give the woman a chance before you start writing her off.

She certainly didn't embarass herself out there. You couldn't find another 47 year old woman who could take a set off a player in the top 100.
Couldn't agree more
:yeah:
:yeah:

- L i n a -
Apr 7th, 2004, 01:39 AM
And let's think who Martina stole the WC from...

Either Shenay Perry (who may have not wanted to play here anyway)... or, my favorite and yours, Alexandra Stevencow.

Jakeev
Apr 7th, 2004, 01:40 AM
Take a look at this

Marissa Irvin-OUT in first round 6-3 6-2
Samantha Reeves-OUT in first round 6-3 7-5
Jennifer Hopkins-OUT in first round 6-0 6-0

So Martina did better than any of them...and all three of those players have had LOTS of chances with wild cards as well. She's not depriving anyone of anything. She's not taking the place of somebody who can get in on her own ranking.

This was her first singles match in TWO YEARS and her first match on clay in TEN. Give the woman a chance before you start writing her off.

She certainly didn't embarass herself out there. You couldn't find another 47 year old woman who could take a set off a player in the top 100.
Amen....

SerialKiller#69
Apr 7th, 2004, 01:54 AM
Damn Martina for stealing that wildcard from Alex!:fury:

:lol:

spencercarlos
Apr 7th, 2004, 02:00 AM
Also Clay is Martina`s worst surface to play in!
She did well i hope she plays in grass instead!

VivalaSeles
Apr 7th, 2004, 02:41 AM
:worship:

Take a look at this

Marissa Irvin-OUT in first round 6-3 6-2
Samantha Reeves-OUT in first round 6-3 7-5
Jennifer Hopkins-OUT in first round 6-0 6-0

So Martina did better than any of them...and all three of those players have had LOTS of chances with wild cards as well. She's not depriving anyone of anything. She's not taking the place of somebody who can get in on her own ranking.

This was her first singles match in TWO YEARS and her first match on clay in TEN. Give the woman a chance before you start writing her off.

She certainly didn't embarass herself out there. You couldn't find another 47 year old woman who could take a set off a player in the top 100.

hingis-seles
Apr 7th, 2004, 03:20 AM
Instead of bitching about wildcard theft, these people should watch what Martina is doing. In a sense, she is creating history. So what if she loses? She's already done it all before and so many times, that she really does have nothing left to prove. To anyone.

We could all learn a lot from the divine MN. :worship:

PatM04
Apr 7th, 2004, 03:22 AM
Take a look at this

Marissa Irvin-OUT in first round 6-3 6-2
Samantha Reeves-OUT in first round 6-3 7-5
Jennifer Hopkins-OUT in first round 6-0 6-0

So Martina did better than any of them...and all three of those players have had LOTS of chances with wild cards as well. She's not depriving anyone of anything. She's not taking the place of somebody who can get in on her own ranking.

This was her first singles match in TWO YEARS and her first match on clay in TEN. Give the woman a chance before you start writing her off.

She certainly didn't embarass herself out there. You couldn't find another 47 year old woman who could take a set off a player in the top 100.
Samantha wasn't a wild card. She was the last direct acceptance. Lets not bash three talented players who are in slumps for the sake of defending someone. I don't think it was a waste to give Martina a wild card but I also think that their are some other players who deserve them as well. Instead of bashing players who loose just praise the people who do well.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

tenn_ace
Apr 7th, 2004, 03:30 AM
and she also brought more fans to watch her match than 3 other wc's combined...

QUEENLINDSAY
Apr 7th, 2004, 03:37 AM
Martina is great no matter what!!!!

for-sure
Apr 7th, 2004, 04:09 AM
The Woman (Martina) is a walking contradiction...don't ask me why...or do! :)...but I kinda like her!

Philbo
Apr 7th, 2004, 04:36 AM
The Woman (Martina) is a walking contradiction...don't ask me why...or do! :)...but I kinda like her!

Why? ;)

Andy T
Apr 7th, 2004, 05:01 AM
Have to agree with you......

people seemed to think that that match was the only reckoner. Its her 3rd competitive tour match sinc e1984 for goodness sake!

Personally I think its facinating seeing how she stacks up.

That said I dont think she is going to win too many matches this season. I think it would take her a year or two to get back in a singles rhythm, like it did in doubles. It would have been more interesting to have seen her play singles last year.

I love the statement that she making, like you should push the boundries in every part of your life, and think about the possibilities rather than your limitations. For her that means ignoring her age, for everyone else it could mean something else

So what if she doesn't excel, at least she can say that she gave it a shot..... In a sense it takes huge courage for someone in her position to risk failing, which realistically she is going to do........

Shes just still out there pushing back boundries. .. :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

Great post arcus. All these premature grandmothers/fathers who disapprove of a 47-year-old woman playing with the youngsters should maybe think about what it says about Martina that she's able to set aside her past glories and status and is ready to pit herself against today's players, who are women 25 years younger than she.

It is inspiring to see someone challenging herself and try to get as much out of herself as possible, regardless of age.

Mr_Molik
Apr 7th, 2004, 07:37 AM
Take a look at this

Marissa Irvin-OUT in first round 6-3 6-2
Samantha Reeves-OUT in first round 6-3 7-5
Jennifer Hopkins-OUT in first round 6-0 6-0

So Martina did better than any of them...and all three of those players have had LOTS of chances with wild cards as well. She's not depriving anyone of anything. She's not taking the place of somebody who can get in on her own ranking.

This was her first singles match in TWO YEARS and her first match on clay in TEN. Give the woman a chance before you start writing her off.

She certainly didn't embarass herself out there. You couldn't find another 47 year old woman who could take a set off a player in the top 100.

i definitely agree

fifiricci
Apr 7th, 2004, 08:23 AM
[QUOTE=Czechfan]Amen to that.

Most of the 'haters' are just bitter fans of other players whom Martina has said stuff about, so they just jump onto anything and bitch about whatever they can, using pathetic reasons such as 'stealing wildcards' from youngsters to criticise..

They will find their reasons to bitch, true fans of the game appreciate Martina.

You know, it REALLY pisses me off when you label someone as a HATER just because they criticise your favourite, its pathetic. I am NOT a hater but I reserve the right to criticise this decision by Martina:

I think Martina is deluding herself in playing singles. What is the point? She's lost in the first round. For those of us who are old enough to remember her in her prime, this charade just dilutes her greatness. Like I said before, Martina should stay out of singles and stick to doubles. If Martina was 16 now and trying to get in to tournaments I'm sure she'd have something to say about famous old pensioners being given preference just because they draw a crowd .......

Ryan
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:36 AM
[QUOTE=Czechfan]Amen to that.

Most of the 'haters' are just bitter fans of other players whom Martina has said stuff about, so they just jump onto anything and bitch about whatever they can, using pathetic reasons such as 'stealing wildcards' from youngsters to criticise..

They will find their reasons to bitch, true fans of the game appreciate Martina.

You know, it REALLY pisses me off when you label someone as a HATER just because they criticise your favourite, its pathetic. I am NOT a hater but I reserve the right to criticise this decision by Martina:

I think Martina is deluding herself in playing singles. What is the point? She's lost in the first round. For those of us who are old enough to remember her in her prime, this charade just dilutes her greatness. Like I said before, Martina should stay out of singles and stick to doubles. If Martina was 16 now and trying to get in to tournaments I'm sure she'd have something to say about famous old pensioners being given preference just because they draw a crowd .......

This only makes her legacy even greater if at all possible. Competing at the age of 47 is amazing, and even if she loses she's proving that she's a fierce competitor and isnt doing this for "kicks", but is really trying to win out there.

Ryan
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:38 AM
You know, it REALLY pisses me off when you label someone as a HATER just because they criticise your favourite, its pathetic. I am NOT a hater but I reserve the right to criticise this decision by Martina:



Well if you can reserve the right to criticise Martina, then everyone else has the right to criticise you.:)

fifiricci
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:45 AM
Well if you can reserve the right to criticise Martina, then everyone else has the right to criticise you.:)
That's not what I'm saying. What I write is only my opinion and I'm happy for anyone to challenge it or criticise it. What I am saying is that I should not be labelled as a Martina HATER just because I criticise something she does. On the contrary, I am anything BUT a Martina hater. I just think that in this instance she has made a wrong decision. Can't you see the difference??!!!!!!

I am a huge Kim fan, but I dont always agree with everything she does and if I criticise her for that, I am not a Kim HATER, but some people in these threads label you a hater just because you criticise a person for doing something and quite frankly its pathetic.

irma
Apr 7th, 2004, 11:50 AM
What's stealing?. Did she go to the boss of the tournament with a gun and said give me a wildcard or I will kidnap you?
she won the tournament 3 times so definitely deserves it no matter how long ago it was;)
I even wonder if she was asked to play because it's the 25th time the tournament is held (well that's what the site says) and she was the first winner!

As said if I was a fan I would not be happy, because it will never be like it used to be. Not just especially result wise but just everything. But that's just me;) Wouldn't mean that I would not root for her and that I would not kick everybody who has the courage to make a negative remark :angel: :lol: ;) :devil: :wavey:

bandabou
Apr 7th, 2004, 11:54 AM
I think the point is not that Martina canīt play or something...itīs just that unless she is planning a FULL-time return to the tour, whatīs the use for her to take WCīs?!

Hulet
Apr 7th, 2004, 12:02 PM
Take a look at this

Marissa Irvin-OUT in first round 6-3 6-2
Samantha Reeves-OUT in first round 6-3 7-5
Jennifer Hopkins-OUT in first round 6-0 6-0

So Martina did better than any of them...and all three of those players have had LOTS of chances with wild cards as well. She's not depriving anyone of anything. She's not taking the place of somebody who can get in on her own ranking.

This was her first singles match in TWO YEARS and her first match on clay in TEN. Give the woman a chance before you start writing her off.

She certainly didn't embarass herself out there. You couldn't find another 47 year old woman who could take a set off a player in the top 100.

First of all, I never made the claim that Martina stole the WCs from the young players, so I am neutral to this argument. But, I would just like to point to you that your reasoning is kind of twisted. If a thief, for example, claims in a court that he only steals from drunks because they waste their money on drinks, would you lower his penality? It doesn't matter whether those wc players lost in a competitive match or were blown out of the court - the player, who lost the wc b/c of Martina's enterance to the tourney, lost a valuable experience of (competitive/blow out) match; this all goes into the character of the player as she develops. If Martina is really playing this not for "kicks" but because she loves to compete, then she would have herself went through the qualis.

One other point: a lot of people seem very excited about Martina's winning of a set. I would like to remind everyone that, whether for an old geezer or a teenager, the main point of any tennis match is not winning sets or points but winning the match. If you lost, you lost, period. It doesn't matter you win set, or made it competitive, or were bageled. In the end, whether you moved to the next round is what matters.

Randy H
Apr 7th, 2004, 12:13 PM
First of all, I never made the claim that Martina stole the WCs from the young players, so I am neutral to this argument. But, I would just like to point to you that your reasoning is kind of twisted. If a thief, for example, claims in a court that he only steals from drunks because they waste their money on drinks, would you lower his penality? It doesn't matter whether those wc players lost in a competitive match or were blown out of the court - the player, who lost the wc b/c of Martina's enterance to the tourney, lost a valuable experience of (competitive/blow out) match; this all goes into the character of the player as she develops. If Martina is really playing this not for "kicks" but because she loves to compete, then she would have herself went through the qualis.

One other point: a lot of people seem very excited about Martina's winning of a set. I would like to remind everyone that, whether for an old geezer or a teenager, the main point of any tennis match is not winning sets or points but winning the match. If you lost, you lost, period. It doesn't matter you win set, or made it competitive, or were bageled. In the end, whether you moved to the next round is what matters.
She couldn't go through qualies cause she was still in Miami competing in the doubles semifinals :drool:

As for your second comment, try telling that to Jennifer Hopkins today and see what she has to say about that :p

Randy H
Apr 7th, 2004, 12:16 PM
You know, it REALLY pisses me off when you label someone as a HATER just because they criticise your favourite, its pathetic. I am NOT a hater but I reserve the right to criticise this decision by Martina:

I think Martina is deluding herself in playing singles. What is the point? She's lost in the first round. For those of us who are old enough to remember her in her prime, this charade just dilutes her greatness. Like I said before, Martina should stay out of singles and stick to doubles. If Martina was 16 now and trying to get in to tournaments I'm sure she'd have something to say about famous old pensioners being given preference just because they draw a crowd .......
I seem to remember when Martina came back in doubles, there were many people who felt she would not be able to compete, and that she would make a fool of herself for even trying. Several years later and she's in the world's top 10 yet again, competing with the best. Not to mention a mixed doubles grand slam winner.

CoryAnnAvants#1
Apr 7th, 2004, 12:46 PM
It doesn't matter whether those wc players lost in a competitive match or were blown out of the court - the player, who lost the wc b/c of Martina's enterance to the tourney, lost a valuable experience of (competitive/blow out) match; this all goes into the character of the player as she develops. If Martina is really playing this not for "kicks" but because she loves to compete, then she would have herself went through the qualis.

One other point: a lot of people seem very excited about Martina's winning of a set. I would like to remind everyone that, whether for an old geezer or a teenager, the main point of any tennis match is not winning sets or points but winning the match. If you lost, you lost, period. It doesn't matter you win set, or made it competitive, or were bageled. In the end, whether you moved to the next round is what matters.

You're right about that. But at the same time, for your first match in two years and your first one in clay in ten, not bad. People were excited that Monica Seles was just simply BACK and playing, despite the fact she lost to Martina. If you had a favorite outside the top 100 that lost to Justine Henin 7-5 in the third, you'd be excited as well. Obviously her fans would have liked to have her seen win, but there are definitely positive that they (and Martina herself) can take that much.

And to tell her to deny a main draw wild card to play the qualies is ridiculous. It's ridiculous to expect Alexandra Stevenson to do it, Martina to do it, or anybody else to do it. If she had to play the qualies, I'm sure she would. But she's not going to have to. When you've won 167 singles tournament in your career, you've earned your right to not have to play qualifying.

And as far as the person who lost their wild card to martina (whoever that is)...you're right, they did lose out on a valuable experience. But it's ONE tournament. Martina's not taking that person's wild card for ten of them. It's not like that persons career will turn to liquid shit because they didn't get that one experience. Most people in the US that recieve wild cards are under the age of 25 and presumably have at least five more years on tour, and have the potential to do something.

Hulet
Apr 7th, 2004, 12:53 PM
You're right about that. But at the same time, for your first match in two years and your first one in clay in ten, not bad. People were excited that Monica Seles was just simply BACK and playing, despite the fact she lost to Martina. If you had a favorite outside the top 100 that lost to Justine Henin 7-5 in the third, you'd be excited as well. Obviously her fans would have liked to have her seen win, but there are definitely positive that they (and Martina herself) can take that much.

And to tell her to deny a main draw wild card to play the qualies is ridiculous. It's ridiculous to expect Alexandra Stevenson to do it, Martina to do it, or anybody else to do it. If she had to play the qualies, I'm sure she would. But she's not going to have to. When you've won 167 singles tournament in your career, you've earned your right to not have to play qualifying.

And as far as the person who lost their wild card to martina (whoever that is)...you're right, they did lose out on a valuable experience. But it's ONE tournament. Martina's not taking that person's wild card for ten of them. It's not like that persons career will turn to liquid shit because they didn't get that one experience. Most people in the US that recieve wild cards are under the age of 25 and presumably have at least five more years on tour, and have the potential to do something.

Very good points, Bradshaw. Can't argue with that. :)

Andy T
Apr 7th, 2004, 01:26 PM
Enough of this ridiculous posting of opinions undefended by facts.

Martina did not take a wild card from anybody. Wild cards, by definition, are attributed to whomever the tournament feels it would like to give one to. They are not "reserved" for juniors, or players of any specific age, for up and coming players, for players of a specific nationality or any other group. players request them or get offered them without having requested them. Grand slam champions are allowed to take up any wild card they are offered. Martina requested and was given one, period.

You may argue that a specific player who applied for one deserved it more than Martina but you would have to do that case by case. Irrespective of what she achieved in 74,84 or 94, or even 2002, Martina is NOW ranked in the top 10 in doubles and is the reigning Wimbledon Mixed Doubles Champion. It would be difficult to find any other player who would not have been directly admitted into the draw that has a better case.