PDA

View Full Version : From Wertheim: VENUS Needs a Shrink


TeeRexx
Apr 6th, 2004, 04:56 AM
From cnn.com
============

What the hell is going on with Venus!?!
-- Ollando, Toronto

We heard about 50 variations of this question, but yours gets right to the point. It's not just that she is losing. It's how and to whom. Even on her worst days, losing a third-set breaker on hard courts to a meatball-serving Dementieva would have been inconceivable. Even at half speed, she would have found a way to beat a talented-but-inexperienced arriviste like Svetlana Kuznetsova. To use a phrase that came up repeatedly in your letters, clearly she is "a shadow of her former self."

http://i.cnn.net/si/2004/writers/jon_wertheim/04/05/mailbag/tx_venus_all.jpg

That said, I think it's too early to write her off. This, remember, is a player who not that long ago won four Slams in 14 months. When healthy, she's as athletic and powerful as any other player. Plus she once had a knack for pulling out matches when she needed to. Emotionally, she's been through a hell of a lot in the past few years. And you have to believe that the trouble spots in her game -- the blizzard of double faults, the flying forehands, the attackable second serve -- are owed more to mental factors than to technical flaws. Some sessions with a sports psychologist world do her a world of good. Right now the elevator is headed in the wrong direction. But I still think if Venus gets some traction and her swagger back (and they perpetuate each other), she's a top 5 player again. It's really up to her.
=====================

Dammit! I think that I may have to agree with Wertheim in some part. A lot of emotional issues have chipped at the confidence and desire of VENUS and a sports shrink can do no harm at this point in her career.

I'll get in touch with Tony Soprano's shrink in the meantime.:cool:

UDiTY
Apr 6th, 2004, 05:00 AM
I think he's write. She has to get her confidence back and then her technical flaws don't matter that much.

She should maybe see a sports psychologist or maybe a specialist for her serve or her forehand...that would give her confidence.

Again, things all said b4....good luck Venus.:p

(and glad you changed the title)

TeeRexx
Apr 6th, 2004, 05:10 AM
Also, VENUS should spend a lot more time with Richard on the practice courts instead of Oracene.

Sam L
Apr 6th, 2004, 05:25 AM
Also, VENUS should spend a lot more time with Richard on the practice courts instead of Oracene.
You think I'm going to read your private message? hell no!

Hulet
Apr 6th, 2004, 05:29 AM
Also, VENUS should spend a lot more time with Richard on the practice courts instead of Oracene.
Although that exactly happened last week and she still lost early, I also think she does better with Richard coaching her than Oracene.

Paneru
Apr 6th, 2004, 05:32 AM
Although that exactly happened last week and she still lost early, I also think she does better with Richard coaching her than Oracene.

I wouldn't call a QF early. :cool:

It'll all work itself out,
patience is a virtue. :)

Hulet
Apr 6th, 2004, 05:36 AM
I wouldn't call a QF early. :cool:

It'll all work itself out,
patience is a virtue. :)
Anything before the final is early exit for Venus, I think. :angel:
Hopefully we don't have to be patient for long. :)

tennisIlove09
Apr 6th, 2004, 05:55 AM
I just want the old Venus to return. I still think that the 01 US Open changed Venus...and not for the better. :sad:

Please comeback girl.

Paneru
Apr 6th, 2004, 06:21 AM
Hopefully we don't have to be patient for long. :)

Hopefully not, because I've not
seen much patience here, there,
or anywhere these days. :)

maximus82
Apr 6th, 2004, 06:23 AM
...perhaps Wertheim finally hit something after all this time firing in the dark...

I am not a Williams fan at all, but I do genuinely feel bad for the sisters over the murder of their sister. I have no idea how they have handled it or if it can be linked to Venus's recent struggles, but I know something like that would end up affecting how I interacted with the world for a long, long time and (like seles's tragedy) wouldn't wish it on anybody. :sad:

tennisjunky
Apr 6th, 2004, 06:42 AM
It is just a matter of time before she catches fire again, hopefully sooner than later. I really want to see her play either Kim or Justine, something tells me she'll raise her game and if she can pull out a win it will do a lot for her confidence.

henree
Apr 6th, 2004, 07:59 AM
Its simple to me. I don't think she likes playing tennis any more. She has other interests, and probably feels like she is obligated to play. Maybe to save face, or maybe due to contractual obligations. We will see how things pan out.

bandabou
Apr 6th, 2004, 08:51 AM
I just want the old Venus to return. I still think that the 01 US Open changed Venus...and not for the better. :sad:

Please comeback girl.

You keep harping on that...Serena was always the better player, but she couldnīt handle the stress of playing Vee. After that loss it was HER who got serious..no pitty or sorrow for Venus anymore and voila...

pav
Apr 6th, 2004, 09:52 AM
After giving this some thought, sometimes You've got to stick Your ass into reverse to get Your head going foreward,so...bring back the bloody beads!

tennischick
Apr 6th, 2004, 12:24 PM
You keep harping on that...Serena was always the better player, but she couldnīt handle the stress of playing Vee. After that loss it was HER who got serious..no pitty or sorrow for Venus anymore and voila...i agree that Serena was always the better player and she has the early Slam to prove it. i disagree that she couldn't handle the stress of playing Venus. what she couldn't handle was being forced to TANK to her so that Venus could beat Davenport in the finals of Wimby. i will never forget Serena's tears. her spirit remained broken for a long time and Venus was able to run away with the tour. then Serena recovered, got her groove back, and the rest, as they say, will continue to be "herstory". Serena :worship: :worship:

Paneru
Apr 6th, 2004, 01:36 PM
Its simple to me. I don't think she likes playing tennis any more. She has other interests, and probably feels like she is obligated to play. Maybe to save face, or maybe due to contractual obligations. We will see how things pan out.

Funny, isn't that what everyone
was saying about Serena! :p

People need to give it a rest already!

Heaven forbid you have a life outside of sports because
it somehow means you don't care! :rolleyes:

I applaud Venus for making a life for herself outside of tennis!
Too many athletes have been like floundering fish out of water not
knowing what they want to do when their sports career's are over!

When Venus is done with tennis she'll not have to experience that
and will have a life and career waiting right there for her!

If Venus didn't love tennis she wouldn't be doing it!
Venus has had to put her life into perspective with the
last eight months and she's handling it.

It's only a matter of time before Venus returns to form!
People just need to stop being so impatient.

esquímaux
Apr 6th, 2004, 02:02 PM
I don't think she needs a shrink, but she could use a good rinse.

tenn_ace
Apr 6th, 2004, 02:09 PM
maybe she's over the hill... I dunno. Some players develop earlier, some players decline earlier. who knows?

Infiniti2001
Apr 6th, 2004, 02:29 PM
i agree that Serena was always the better player and she has the early Slam to prove it. i disagree that she couldn't handle the stress of playing Venus. what she couldn't handle was being forced to TANK to her so that Venus could beat Davenport in the finals of Wimby. i will never forget Serena's tears. her spirit remained broken for a long time and Venus was able to run away with the tour. then Serena recovered, got her groove back, and the rest, as they say, will continue to be "herstory". Serena :worship: :worship:


Serena has always had the better record against lindsay and Hingis too --- who in their right mind would actually believe that she was ask her to tank her match to Venus??? :rolleyes: Up until that time Venus was literally Lindsay's bitch , so there goes that arguement :tape:
Topic related: I think Venus definitely needs some mental regrouping . I don't know what the problem is but I refuse to write her off as well. :p

hotandspicey
Apr 6th, 2004, 02:46 PM
Anything before the final is early exit for Venus, I think. :angel:
Hopefully we don't have to be patient for long. :) That's true.However,considering her injuries,she did damn good to reach the QF.Give her a break.She will get bacck in form,hopefully.

WilliamzX2
Apr 6th, 2004, 03:16 PM
I think that Venus has had a rougher time emotionally than we think. The reason why we expect so much of her is because in the past she seemed so invincible. She is human however and affected by all the things that we are..so I wish everyone would just lay off and give her time to find her game and her confidence again. Good luck Venus!

tennisIlove09
Apr 6th, 2004, 03:17 PM
You keep harping on that...Serena was always the better player, but she couldnīt handle the stress of playing Vee. After that loss it was HER who got serious..no pitty or sorrow for Venus anymore and voila...
Fine, but you have to admit that Venus has never been the same player since then. Never.

TeeRexx
Apr 6th, 2004, 03:51 PM
VENUS will improve her play from what she did against the Rooskie at the N-100, if for no other reason, that she couldn't do much worse.

VENUS will make the finals, at least once, within the next two events that she plays.

Freewoman33
Apr 6th, 2004, 04:05 PM
Its simple to me. I don't think she likes playing tennis any more. She has other interests, and probably feels like she is obligated to play. Maybe to save face, or maybe due to contractual obligations. We will see how things pan out.

Excellent post.

Venus doesn't need a shrink, she needs that champion's desire that nobody can give her. Venus used to win ugly matches against the best of them, now she can't even win a match against someone with a serve like Elena's. Venus would have to figure out what she wants by herself.

Paneru
Apr 6th, 2004, 04:16 PM
Excellent post.

Venus doesn't need a shrink, she needs that champion's desire that nobody can give her. Venus used to win ugly matches against the best of them, now she can't even win a match against someone with a serve like Elena's. Venus would have to figure out what she wants by herself.

Why do that when everyone else
is offering their dime store advice! ;)

Nobody but Venus knows and to say she has
no desire is funny when I saw the fight on her face,
especially after her injury timeout!

Venus will do it in her own time.
Meanwhile, we'll continue to here
this, that, and the other from every
Tom, Dick, and Harry. :cool:

Take all the time you need Vee! :wavey:
Go baby! :kiss:

Vass22
Apr 6th, 2004, 04:29 PM
I don't agree that she needs a shrink. She's obviusly still rusty.

Freewoman33
Apr 6th, 2004, 05:00 PM
Thing is, Venus used to fight for every point. She had that air of confidence about her even when she was losing. Now, I only see a body on court because it always seems like the mind is wandering.

If I can't have my fighting Venus back, than I don't want this Venus. I'll be happy and love her the same if she decides that tennis is not for her anymore. Otherwise, she needs to spend more time on the practice court and put some like into her game.

DA FOREHAND
Apr 6th, 2004, 06:51 PM
...perhaps Wertheim finally hit something after all this time firing in the dark...

I am not a Williams fan at all, but I do genuinely feel bad for the sisters over the murder of their sister. I have no idea how they have handled it or if it can be linked to Venus's recent struggles, but I know something like that would end up affecting how I interacted with the world for a long, long time and (like seles's tragedy) wouldn't wish it on anybody. :sad:
My brother was murdered in 01, and it's affected each of my siblings and parents in diff. ways. I have found peace and forgiveness, while my older brother is still rocked by it, you're right though it affects everyone differently.

Venus needs to get tired of losing and step it up, you can only get by using yesterdays tragedies for so long before you either roll over and die, or pick yourself up and carry on. She doesn't need a serve or forehand coach, the game that won her her last slam(01 US Open) is still good enough to capture more slams.

Paneru
Apr 6th, 2004, 06:56 PM
My brother was murdered in 01, and it's affected each of my siblings and parents in diff. ways. I have found peace and forgiveness, while my older brother is still rocked by it, you're right though it affects everyone differently.

Venus needs to get tired of losing and step it up, you can only get by using yesterdays tragedies for so long before you either roll over and die, or pick yourself up and carry on. She doesn't need a serve or forehand coach, the game that won her her last slam(01 US Open) is still good enough to capture more slams.

The fact is she has not once used her sister's death as an excuse!
Also, no one knows what she's going through and all the speculation as to knowing what she is thinking or feeling besiseds what she chooses to share helps nothing.

Venus will do it all in her way and her time.
Let's not forget injuries play a part her as well.
She came back from injury and developed a new one.

I just think people need to just stop all the speculation
and just let her be to work it out for herself.

DA FOREHAND
Apr 6th, 2004, 07:15 PM
The fact is she has not once used her sister's death as an excuse!
Also, no one knows what she's going through and all the speculation as to knowing what she is thinking or feeling besiseds what she chooses to share helps nothing.

Venus will do it all in her way and her time.
Let's not forget injuries play a part her as well.
She came back from injury and developed a new one.

I just think people need to just stop all the speculation
and just let her be to work it out for herself.
I agree, and I'm not speculating about the affects her sisters murder has had on her game, just answering the poster who brought it up.

Venus will pull herself together in her own time, and I'll be there to cheer her on, if I know anything I know she has too much pride to continue down this path. Venus will be o.k

WF4EVER
Apr 6th, 2004, 07:42 PM
I said the same thing after she lost to Dementieva: she needs to see a psychologist like she did in her pre-tantrum days, After the beads incident and her incident at Wimby (about some bad call) she came back like a Titan, nothing bothered her, nothing could sway her even if she was losing. She needs to get back to being that confident woman she once was. That's the Venus that wins and that's the one that I adore.

TeeRexx
Apr 6th, 2004, 08:41 PM
VENUS is never going to publicly mention how terribly the death of her sister affected her and probably still is to a great degree. it is not the main cause of her bad play, but yet, another brick in this wall of problems in her game.

I guess her technique will get better, but she will never be as technically sound as SERENA, so she will have to, once she starts, continue to win ugly at times.

Deira
Apr 6th, 2004, 09:49 PM
What Venus needs is match play, which is what she is and will be getting. That will bring back her confidence. In my opinion, people fail to realize the depth of which an abdominal injury can do. Any injury to the trunk of your body makes any movement very, very difficult - be it your back or your stomach. Any kind of exercise is off limits for the duration. To me this means Venus was not able to do any kind of practice whatsoever. Serena, Lindsay, and some others made more favorable comebacks because of the types of injuries they had. At least they could do weight training and forms of exercise that didn't involve any kind of trauma to their legs, knees, or ankles. My poor Vee might as well have been in a body cast. Give her credit and time, her fans know she has the heart of a lioness. Think about it people.

WF4EVER
Apr 6th, 2004, 11:30 PM
I agree, Deira, Venus needs to string some matches together. That would help her confidence as well as her game but it seems injuries are also a huge part of Venus' setbacks. I think if she's healthy she'll be willing to go for more. Case in point, that third set against Dementieva. I wondered if having wrapped her ankle again she decided to go for more, but just couldn't keep it up in the long run. Please correct me, anyone, if I'm wrong.

Another good point made here is Venus' mental state re the loss of her sister. Everybody's different and none of us have any idea how that affected her. I don't think Vee has lost interest; I think she's really making an effort to get back in the game but it has been one setback or the next.

I think this Reebok contract thing could probably be a good thing for her. If her contract has ended she should have no pressure on her to perform and that should ease some of the tension she may be under, since I hardly think she's hardup for reebok's money. She should come out playing like she has not a care in the world and everything to gain.

This reminds me of Henin who's favorite phrase in 2002 was "I have nothing to lose". It would be great if Venus could adapt that attitude so that she could go out there and think the worst she could do is win. Of course, she would have to be healthy first.

TeeRexx
Apr 7th, 2004, 01:07 AM
Deira - How very true. An abdominal injury can be just as deleterious as a back injury and limitis just about any form of meaningful exercise.

VENUS needs to gradually get back in physical, tennis and mental shape and then she can whip up on baby sis. :)

Leo_DFP
Apr 7th, 2004, 01:19 AM
She's had 3 losses. Let's not overreact. Her career's not over, she's simply struggling thus far in her comeback.

I wouldn't expect anything spectacular from her this clay court season (certainly no Roland Garros final like in 2002), but she should be back in form by the grass season and a major contender for Wimbledon.

VS Fan
Apr 7th, 2004, 01:44 AM
As usual Tennischick nailed it. I am a fellow conspirasy theorist concerning the Wimbledon 2000 match between Venus and Serena. This match is what started ALL the match fixing controversy.

Whether Richard ordered it or Serena just forfeited this match, because of the love of her older sister, I think this is what kept Serena from performing well for almost two years.

When Serena became her own person, she decided to play like she can regardless of who is on the other side.

As for tennislove09's view.... The idea that Venus just cannot bring herself to defeat her younger sister.... My view is that it didn't seem to be a problem is their first 5 or six matches. Just what is it that changed???

JUST maybe...MAYBE it was Serena who could not bring herself to win against her older sister???? Well, she won the Grandslam Cup in Germany, 1999, which did not count in the rankings, but no others until NASDAQ 2002.

Just my opinion.

TeeRexx
Apr 7th, 2004, 02:07 AM
VS Fan - Did you ever see Mel Gibson's movie, Conspiracy Theory, because I know that you did or would have loved the flick? :)

Seriously, that was a good post and an interesting theory regarding the sibling rivalry. However, I just can not see my #2 fave, SERENA, giving up the chance for a slam, even to a relative because she loves diamonds and titles. :)

Bright Red
Apr 7th, 2004, 02:15 AM
From cnn.com
I think that I may have to agree with Wertheim in some part. A lot of emotional issues have chipped at the confidence and desire of VENUS and a sports shrink can do no harm at this point in her career.I also agree with Wertheim to some part. I also agree with Diera's post above.

I would also add that Venus was somewhat disadvantaged in her return as compared to Serena for several reasons. First and biggest, Venus came back alone. The WS need each other for emotional support and companionship and I daresay the motivation of sisterly competition at such an important event. Venus was competing at Miami when Serena returned. Second, Venus came back at a Grand Slam event with a field full of healthy, hungry players (yes, I know she won some exo or tuneup beforehand--but that doesn't really count imo) Serena came back at a lesser event (albeit it an important one) with a weakened draw. Finally, Venus had already completely lost her aura of invincibility before she left.

I don't know if it's bad luck or poor choices, but everything that's happened to date makes Venus seems more and more ordinary when compared to Serena. Players no longer fear her, and consequently, Venus' battle will be an uphill one for quite some time. Do I think she'll succeed in getting back to the top? (hint: see my signature) And once she does, she'll deserve the biggest props we can give. I have no doubt it.

Go Venus! :bounce:

VS Fan
Apr 7th, 2004, 02:30 AM
TeeRexx:

Serena had blasted through the draw, humbling Lisa Raymond in the Quarters with something like 6-1, 6-2 in less than 45 minutes. She played one set in the early rounds in 11 minutes. She looked like the one to beat in this tourney.
Her game vs Venus fell apart through mostly errors.


Serena was only 18, at the Wimbledon final in 2000 and was under a lot of pressure, because SHE had won the FIRST slam in the family, while she was being mentored by her older sister that she adored.

Of course Venus HAD to come through with a Win over Lindsay, which she did to complete the event.

Keep in mind though that Serena ALREADY practically OWNED Lindsay in their Head to Heads, while Venus had a losing record vs Lindsay. If Serena caved, how do you think she would have felt??
Venus' look in the hood she wore during the 1999 US Open final had to be very heart wrenching for Serena. I think she unconciously gave in, and it affected her career for about two years. Of course I could be wrong.

Ballbuster
Apr 7th, 2004, 06:26 AM
There is nothing wrong with seeing a therapist. Hell, I did it when I broke up in my last relationship. (I thought I was going to kill that b!tch). I used to dump and get up and walk out. They are only a "rent a friend"

Did it help? Hell yeah!!!! I had someone stuck in a seat - paid to hear my rant and ravings and could not tell a soul - by law. Did the rant and ravings stop. Thank god. Now I only have love for my ex.

The Williams clan got issues. Please believe - and not just what you hear.

Whammo Cluck
Apr 7th, 2004, 07:34 AM
I think Venus is simply arriving at her final, adult persona: austere, gracious, doomed. I recall reading, many years ago in a children's magazine, that a very young Venus was asked what she wanted to be when she grew up, and she replied "a chambermaid", or something along those lines.

TeeRexx
Apr 7th, 2004, 07:35 AM
Bbuster - I am sorry, but I was laughing at the first part of your post because I could imagine you ranting over the bitch that you wanted to kill, but I am glad to hear that the shrink helped you out of your perdicament.

I think VENUS will surprise many people by the end of May.

harloo
Apr 7th, 2004, 07:53 AM
Its simple to me. I don't think she likes playing tennis any more. She has other interests, and probably feels like she is obligated to play. Maybe to save face, or maybe due to contractual obligations. We will see how things pan out.

Well this is my opinion on Venus right now, and we all must give her time to deal with her problems. I just don't feel the desire is there at this point in her life, but I will continue to support her regardless of what she decides to do. IMO, Venus can still win slams and become #1 again, it's just a question of what level of dedication she is willing to put into the game.

harloo
Apr 7th, 2004, 08:13 AM
Serena had blasted through the draw, humbling Lisa Raymond in the Quarters with something like 6-1, 6-2 in less than 45 minutes. She played one set in the early rounds in 11 minutes. She looked like the one to beat in this tourney.
Her game vs Venus fell apart through mostly errors.


Serena was only 18, at the Wimbledon final in 2000 and was under a lot of pressure, because SHE had won the FIRST slam in the family, while she was being mentored by her older sister that she adored.

Of course Venus HAD to come through with a Win over Lindsay, which she did to complete the event.

Keep in mind though that Serena ALREADY practically OWNED Lindsay in their Head to Heads, while Venus had a losing record vs Lindsay. If Serena caved, how do you think she would have felt??
Venus' look in the hood she wore during the 1999 US Open final had to be very heart wrenching for Serena. I think she unconciously gave in, and it affected her career for about two years. Of course I could be wrong.
I think after US Open 1999 where Serena won her first slam she was on a high. She won the big one, and got lethargic about her game. Oracene even admitted that Serena was having a good time, living it up, and not really focusing and using her talents. So, in 2000 Wimbledon I never felt that Serena would win Wimby, because Serena trend was getting into big matches and choking. It's something that seemed to carry over for a while with Serena, until she decided that she had enough of it.

I will admit that technically Serena is a better player than Venus, but mentally wise Venus was always better. Now you see that Serena has developed mentally, and her game has come together. That's a tough combination, even for the queen and somehow it's made her back away. No matter how much Venus says she is fine to losing all those slam finals to Rena, I don't think she is fine with it. I just don't like the fact that Venus is on the losing side of this all the time. Serena is blessed with one of the best first and second in women's tennis ever, it makes a big difference.

Nikola
Apr 7th, 2004, 08:48 AM
:eek:

bandabou
Apr 7th, 2004, 11:37 AM
TeeRexx:

Serena had blasted through the draw, humbling Lisa Raymond in the Quarters with something like 6-1, 6-2 in less than 45 minutes. She played one set in the early rounds in 11 minutes. She looked like the one to beat in this tourney.
Her game vs Venus fell apart through mostly errors.


Serena was only 18, at the Wimbledon final in 2000 and was under a lot of pressure, because SHE had won the FIRST slam in the family, while she was being mentored by her older sister that she adored.

Of course Venus HAD to come through with a Win over Lindsay, which she did to complete the event.

Keep in mind though that Serena ALREADY practically OWNED Lindsay in their Head to Heads, while Venus had a losing record vs Lindsay. If Serena caved, how do you think she would have felt??
Venus' look in the hood she wore during the 1999 US Open final had to be very heart wrenching for Serena. I think she unconciously gave in, and it affected her career for about two years. Of course I could be wrong.

Me thinks so too.....I must have really hurt Serena to see that look on her sisterīs face after she won the ī99 u.s. open. That wasnīt a look of joy AT ALL! And thatīs why I think her cries at Wimbledon ī00 were more in the line of she KNEW she could do better or could beat Venus, but she didnīt want to see that look again....and that has hunted her for two years. Thank God she got over it. Now it is Venusīs turn.

bandabou
Apr 7th, 2004, 11:38 AM
As usual Tennischick nailed it. I am a fellow conspirasy theorist concerning the Wimbledon 2000 match between Venus and Serena. This match is what started ALL the match fixing controversy.

Whether Richard ordered it or Serena just forfeited this match, because of the love of her older sister, I think this is what kept Serena from performing well for almost two years.

When Serena became her own person, she decided to play like she can regardless of who is on the other side.

As for tennislove09's view.... The idea that Venus just cannot bring herself to defeat her younger sister.... My view is that it didn't seem to be a problem is their first 5 or six matches. Just what is it that changed???

JUST maybe...MAYBE it was Serena who could not bring herself to win against her older sister???? Well, she won the Grandslam Cup in Germany, 1999, which did not count in the rankings, but no others until NASDAQ 2002.

Just my opinion.

Venus fans will never admit to that truth.

tennischick
Apr 7th, 2004, 11:59 AM
Serena has always had the better record against lindsay and Hingis too --- who in their right mind would actually believe that she was ask her to tank her match to Venus??? :rolleyes: Up until that time Venus was literally Lindsay's bitch , so there goes that arguement :tape:
Topic related: I think Venus definitely needs some mental regrouping . I don't know what the problem is but I refuse to write her off as well. :pLindsay was hobbled by injury during that Wimby final. she was wearing a body of brace made of bandages that went from under her boobs right down to the bottom of her hips -- she could barely move. it was incredible that she made it to the finals at all. whichever sister had made it to the finals KNEW she would have won bec of how injured Lindsay was that year. but Richard decreed that it was Venus' turn to hoist that Wimby plate that she had coveted since she was introduced to it in Chris Evert's living-room when she was a little girl. and so Serena had to tank to her sister who would go on to beat a barely mobile Lindsay in the finals.

in all fairness to Venus, she started believing her own hype which helped her perform and she actually started gettting results. of course she was helped by the fact that Serena's spirit had been as hobbled as Lindsay's body. and for a while there Venus started looking like a champion.

well guess what, Reebox has wised up. it's time some of y'all do. there's only one Wiilliams Sister that will continue to dominate the tour. and that is the Sister that from the very beginning the same gutless father admitted that she was better than Venus and more aggressive than Venus.
:wavey: :wavey:

bandabou
Apr 7th, 2004, 12:15 PM
Lindsay was hobbled by injury during that Wimby final. she was wearing a body of brace made of bandages that went from under her boobs right down to the bottom of her hips -- she could barely move. it was incredible that she made it to the finals at all. whichever sister had made it to the finals KNEW she would have won bec of how injured Lindsay was that year. but Richard decreed that it was Venus' turn to hoist that Wimby plate that she had coveted since she was introduced to it in Chris Evert's living-room when she was a little girl. and so Serena had to tank to her sister who would go on to beat a barely mobile Lindsay in the finals.

in all fairness to Venus, she started believing her own hype which helped her perform and she actually started gettting results. of course she was helped by the fact that Serena's spirit had been as hobbled as Lindsay's body. and for a while there Venus started looking like a champion.

well guess what, Reebox has wised up. it's time some of y'all do. there's only one Wiilliams Sister that will continue to dominate the tour. and that is the Sister that from the very beginning the same gutless father admitted that she was better than Venus and more aggressive than Venus.
:wavey: :wavey:

Really starting to look like you might JUST be right!

Paneru
Apr 7th, 2004, 12:30 PM
She's had 3 losses. Let's not overreact. Her career's not over, she's simply struggling thus far in her comeback.

I wouldn't expect anything spectacular from her this clay court season (certainly no Roland Garros final like in 2002), but she should be back in form by the grass season and a major contender for Wimbledon.

Overreacting is what some do best! ;)

I agree, clay wouldn't seem like the place she would make the big move but,
it will be gentler on her body and their will be few expectations of her to fire it up on clay. Vee has become more patient which is good on clay and it would be just nice to see her play.

Now, Wimbledon is a great place for her!
Great memories, crowds, and just a place where
she not only shines but is eager to shine. :)

Funny that Vee's grass court season consists
of one tournament, especially when it is so
good to her! :lol:

She'll indeed be fine!

nander
Apr 7th, 2004, 02:25 PM
Lindsay was hobbled by injury during that Wimby final. she was wearing a body of brace made of bandages that went from under her boobs right down to the bottom of her hips -- she could barely move. it was incredible that she made it to the finals at all. whichever sister had made it to the finals KNEW she would have won bec of how injured Lindsay was that year. but Richard decreed that it was Venus' turn to hoist that Wimby plate that she had coveted since she was introduced to it in Chris Evert's living-room when she was a little girl. and so Serena had to tank to her sister who would go on to beat a barely mobile Lindsay in the finals.

in all fairness to Venus, she started believing her own hype which helped her perform and she actually started gettting results. of course she was helped by the fact that Serena's spirit had been as hobbled as Lindsay's body. and for a while there Venus started looking like a champion.

well guess what, Reebox has wised up. it's time some of y'all do. there's only one Wiilliams Sister that will continue to dominate the tour. and that is the Sister that from the very beginning the same gutless father admitted that she was better than Venus and more aggressive than Venus.
:wavey: :wavey:

I am literally astounded by your apparent knowledge of the goings on with the Williamses. Are these conclusions based on intimate knowledge or are they made on the basis of what is avaialable to all of us?
I have been a Venus fan for a long time but have wondered at and criticised - on this board and the one before - some of the choices that she has made re tournaments etc. (like playing one which would assure her points at crucial times). Now I am not sure what to think of the present situation.
Why didn't the parents encourage one sister to be a tennis player and the other golf/basketball or something? I have 2 sisters and the thought of the kind of pressure asociated with this kind of high-level and public rivalry is mind-boggling.
Will/can Venus rebound? From my point of view I sincerely hope so.

DA FOREHAND
Apr 7th, 2004, 02:26 PM
"well guess what, Reebox has wised up. it's time some of y'all do. there's only one Wiilliams Sister that will continue to dominate the tour. and that is the Sister that from the very beginning the same gutless father admitted that she was better than Venus and more aggressive than Venus."

WTF are you talking about!? Richard Williams has more guts than you've got brains, he can be called quite a few things but gutless isn't one of them. He raised all of his kids the way he saw fit, and against what the "establishment" was trying to feed him, and look who came out on top. Just because a couple of people in this thread are agreeing w/you doesn't mean you can spew your crap unchecked. Me thinks you're starting to smell your own piss! :tape:

Paneru
Apr 7th, 2004, 03:40 PM
"well guess what, Reebox has wised up. it's time some of y'all do. there's only one Wiilliams Sister that will continue to dominate the tour. and that is the Sister that from the very beginning the same gutless father admitted that she was better than Venus and more aggressive than Venus."

WTF are you talking about!? Richard Williams has more guts than you've got brains, he can be called quite a few things but gutless isn't one of them. He raised all of his kids the way he saw fit, and against what the "establishment" was trying to feed him, and look who came out on top. Just because a couple of people in this thread are agreeing w/you doesn't mean you can spew your crap unchecked. Me thinks you're starting to smell your own piss! :tape:
:worship:

WilliamzX2
Apr 7th, 2004, 04:32 PM
Bandadou...stop pretending you have any love for Venus! you Serena fans who pretend you have love for venus make me sick....you jab at Venus every chance you get...keep it real please.

All the best Venus!

Infiniti2001
Apr 7th, 2004, 04:54 PM
Lindsay was hobbled by injury during that Wimby final. she was wearing a body of brace made of bandages that went from under her boobs right down to the bottom of her hips -- she could barely move. it was incredible that she made it to the finals at all. whichever sister had made it to the finals KNEW she would have won bec of how injured Lindsay was that year. but Richard decreed that it was Venus' turn to hoist that Wimby plate that she had coveted since she was introduced to it in Chris Evert's living-room when she was a little girl. and so Serena had to tank to her sister who would go on to beat a barely mobile Lindsay in the finals.

in all fairness to Venus, she started believing her own hype which helped her perform and she actually started gettting results. of course she was helped by the fact that Serena's spirit had been as hobbled as Lindsay's body. and for a while there Venus started looking like a champion.

well guess what, Reebox has wised up. it's time some of y'all do. there's only one Wiilliams Sister that will continue to dominate the tour. and that is the Sister that from the very beginning the same gutless father admitted that she was better than Venus and more aggressive than Venus.
:wavey: :wavey:

More bunk. :rolleyes: And as for the Reebok thing, I don't think they "wised up". No one EVER drops one of the top name-recognition athletes in the sport because their ranking drops during an injury break. That article made it clear they intend to get out of tennis altogether. Watch them drop Roddick too when his deal is up. He's probably already hunting for another contract. Oh and Bandadou, when will you start thinking for yourself?? You're like a friggin flag in the wind ugh :fiery:

DA FOREHAND
Apr 7th, 2004, 04:57 PM
More bunk. :rolleyes: And as for the Reebok thing, I don't think they "wised up". No one EVER drops one of the top name-recognition athletes in the sport because their ranking drops during an injury break. That article made it clear they intend to get out of tennis altogether. Watch them drop Roddick too when his deal is up. He's probably already hunting for another contract. Oh and Bandadou, when will you start thinking for yourself?? You're like a friggin flag in the wind ugh :fiery:


He's starting to sound like C. Thomas, dittoing everything Scalia says.

Seenus
Apr 7th, 2004, 05:03 PM
I believe that Venus is afraid of getting hurt and does not extend herself. It is a legitimate fear so a psychiatrist cannot help her with that. She needs to get so fit that she can maintain a high level of play without feeling exhausted. That will do wonders for her confidence.

Infiniti2001
Apr 7th, 2004, 05:07 PM
He's starting to sound like C. Thomas, dittoing everything Scalia says.

You don't say :eek: :tape:

DA FOREHAND
Apr 7th, 2004, 05:13 PM
I believe that Venus is afraid of getting hurt and does not extend herself. It is a legitimate fear so a psychiatrist cannot help her with that. She needs to get so fit that she can maintain a high level of play without feeling exhausted. That will do wonders for her confidence.
You've seen Venus exhuasted this year? I guess I missed that. :tape:

TeeRexx
Apr 7th, 2004, 06:27 PM
Individuals like bandabooty and tennisbitch are loving the sight of a Williams losing before a final and are even idiotic enough to try and rehash the old conspiracy theories of match fixing.

Some facts:

Richard is intelligent, courageous and a fine tennis strategist. (trained two multi GS champs from first grip to GS title)

VENUS is not through, but in a slump, but should be open to outside training, i.e., Garrison or King.

SERENA is nearly back on track, says she is thinking more of tennis and is determined to be #1 once again.

Finally, anti-Williams rats will continue to attempt to knaw at the accomplishments of this family to no avail.

bandabou
Apr 7th, 2004, 06:48 PM
Individuals like bandabooty and tennisbitch are loving the sight of a Williams losing before a final and are even idiotic enough to try and rehash the old conspiracy theories of match fixing.

Some facts:

Richard is intelligent, courageous and a fine tennis strategist. (trained two multi GS champs from first grip to GS title)

VENUS is not through, but in a slump, but should be open to outside training, i.e., Garrison or King.

SERENA is nearly back on track, says she is thinking more of tennis and is determined to be #1 once again.

Finally, anti-Williams rats will continue to attempt to knaw at the accomplishments of this family to no avail.

uhmmm....for the record: I AM a williams-fan!

TeeRexx
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:32 PM
uhmmm....for the record: I AM a williams-fan!
Uhmmmm ... then for the recod: ACT like a Willaims fan then.:p
Just kidding, I couldn't resist, but VENUS is my fave, so don't pick on her too hard.:cool: