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tennisIlove09
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:13 AM
...a woman (regardless of how good she is) is out for 8 months can come back and literally storm through a Tier One, or a "Fifth Grand Slam" to win? :confused:

jay_k
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:15 AM
I am sure you wouldn't have complained had Venus won the Aussie open :p

tennisIlove09
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:20 AM
I am sure you wouldn't have complained had Venus won the Aussie open :p
Well, I didn't think I was complaining. I think it's natural to have setbacks as Venus and Capriati have had...and I'm sure Mauresmo will have.

But what does it say about the rest of the field when Serena can comeback and only lose 1 set? Dementieva, a top 10er only TWO games?

Nabalonge
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:21 AM
With all due respect to the ladies who were at Nasdaq, I find myself more worried about and concerned with Serena and how she will continue to play based on Serena, rather then the rest of the tour.

At this point I'm happy that she has come back after such a long time out and has played fairly well. The rest of the tour, Serena included, will mesh and come into one soon enough. I don't care to rush it or bash it when Serena could turn out a loss tomorrow or the next day.

udachi Elena
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:22 AM
Considering the top five weren't there. I guess that may not make a difference. and Congrats to serena for winning, but it wasn't exactly the strongest field.

faboozadoo15
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:23 AM
no... bc on the guys side, if roger was out for as long as serena was and then delayed his comeback to be really back into it like serena did, he would probably win just about any tournament he entered. that's not pathetic in either case. serena worked her ass off i imagine to keep herself at/ bring herself back up to the level shes playing at. and she was the best before she left, and so she worked hard, and now she may be again, who knows.

justine,kim, lindsay, amelie were also not there, so looking at that-- it's really not "pathetic" for the tour that she won.

jay_k
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:27 AM
Well, I didn't think I was complaining. I think it's natural to have setbacks as Venus and Capriati have had...and I'm sure Mauresmo will have.

But what does it say about the rest of the field when Serena can comeback and only lose 1 set? Dementieva, a top 10er only TWO games?
It only says one thing and that is Serena is GREAT. She is only the second player to win her first tournament after such a long break ( the other being Monica)

Serena :worship: Monica :worship:

fammmmedspin
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:30 AM
Seles came back from something far longer and far worse and won against a better field. Graf was always coming back from something. Its what top players do. Capriati came back from oblivion very quickly. Serena has never relied on playing to prepare herself and didn't play the top 5 or one of the rising people. It is encouraging though as some players never come back.

Sam L
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:35 AM
Guys, keep in mind that when Serena was out of 8 months, she wasn't injured ALL THE TIME. She had an initial injury which I'm sure was very serious up until the time of the US Open, but I'm pretty sure she recovered for the year end, and she just wasn't ready to get back to the tour.

Serena (and even Venus) have said that they play for the slams, they don't bother with the small tournaments. They also have their priorities (big tournaments in America that pay big $$$ and give them a lot of publicity). So they're gonna try to win those ones rather than some tournament in the United Arab Emirates.

I've noticed this since like they came onto tour in the late 90's. There's nothing wrong with it. But there's nothing surprising about Serena winning Miami after 8 months off. :shrug:

alextreiber04
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:36 AM
You are looking it is as the cup is half empty. Maybe its not that the tour is pathetic, maybe it's Serena Williams is that good. Which I believe is true.

tennisIlove09
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:46 AM
Guys, keep in mind that when Serena was out of 8 months, she wasn't injured ALL THE TIME. She had an initial injury which I'm sure was very serious up until the time of the US Open, but I'm pretty sure she recovered for the year end, and she just wasn't ready to get back to the tour.

Serena (and even Venus) have said that they play for the slams, they don't bother with the small tournaments. They also have their priorities (big tournaments in America that pay big $$$ and give them a lot of publicity). So they're gonna try to win those ones rather than some tournament in the United Arab Emirates.

I've noticed this since like they came onto tour in the late 90's. There's nothing wrong with it. But there's nothing surprising about Serena winning Miami after 8 months off. :shrug:
Well, I've never considered that Sam. When Serena said she was still rehabing her knee, I really believed she was still rehabing it. But maybe she was healthy to play last fall, and just didn't want too. It would explain a lot.

alextreiber04
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:47 AM
Also...didn't Serena like only lose 4 sets en route to her Serena slam? I mean hell thats pretty damn good...

alextreiber04
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:48 AM
Exuse me it was 5 sets...hell that's amazing :haha:

Kart
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:50 AM
I don't think it's pathetic.

If Monica Seles can come back after two and a half years absence and win a tier I and reach a grand slam final in her first two tournaments I don't think Serena winning a big tier I as that amazing - especially with most of the top ten absent (although she'd probably have won it anyway).

tennisIlove09
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:52 AM
but there's suppose to be a big difference in the tour "depth" between 95 (when Seles came back) to now (when Serena came back).

Kart
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:55 AM
That's a matter of opinion ;).

harloo
Apr 5th, 2004, 01:01 AM
In Serena's interviews she has stated that she was doing strengthining training and other things to keep her in shape. I'm pretty sure she was practicing also, and she had a lot of time to relax mentally and get refreshed. There is nothing like actual match play, but Serena has won tournaments after long lay offs before so it's not a big suprise.

If Serena did lose Miami, I bet she would of been on the courts the next day practing like their was no tommorrow. Serena is motivated by losing, when she loses to an opponent you better believe she will try to get revenge the next time.

I am suprised Venus has not got her game back on track thusfar, but maybe she is not into tennis at the moment. This draw in Miami was really open for her to get to the finals, but she did not show up.

tennisIlove09
Apr 5th, 2004, 01:05 AM
In Serena's interviews she has stated that she was doing strengthining training and other things to keep her in shape. I'm pretty sure she was practicing also, and she had a lot of time to relax mentally and get refreshed. There is nothing like actual match play, but Serena has won tournaments after long lay offs before so it's not a big suprise.

If Serena did lose Miami, I bet she would of been on the courts the next day practing like their was no tommorrow. Serena is motivated by losing, when she loses to an opponent you better believe she will try to get revenge the next time.

I am suprised Venus has not got her game back on track thusfar, but maybe she is not into tennis at the moment. This draw in Miami was really open for her to get to the finals, but she did not show up.
Good post Harloo.

But when did Serena win another title after a long layoff? :confused: This is her first long layoff.

Mr_Molik
Apr 5th, 2004, 01:16 AM
i think its pathetic. it doesnt say alot to all the other girls who have been playing and training for eight months
but the real test will be when she plays justine and kim

fried_beans
Apr 5th, 2004, 01:28 AM
Yes, it's pathetic

harloo
Apr 5th, 2004, 01:41 AM
Good post Harloo.

But when did Serena win another title after a long layoff? :confused: This is her first long layoff.
True this is the longest lay off in Serena's career ever, but she has been out before for a couple of months and won a tournament. With who was in this draw both Serena and Venus had opportunities to win the tournament.

It's just like at IW's where H-H won because she was just better than the players who were there.

mykarma
Apr 5th, 2004, 01:46 AM
Guys, keep in mind that when Serena was out of 8 months, she wasn't injured ALL THE TIME. She had an initial injury which I'm sure was very serious up until the time of the US Open, but I'm pretty sure she recovered for the year end, and she just wasn't ready to get back to the tour.

Serena (and even Venus) have said that they play for the slams, they don't bother with the small tournaments. They also have their priorities (big tournaments in America that pay big $$$ and give them a lot of publicity). So they're gonna try to win those ones rather than some tournament in the United Arab Emirates.

I've noticed this since like they came onto tour in the late 90's. There's nothing wrong with it. But there's nothing surprising about Serena winning Miami after 8 months off. :shrug:

Serena is only the second person to ever come back and not only win, but win in such a lopsided manner. I find it interesting you don't find what she accomplished an admirable feat. Serena, her dad, along with most of the tennis experts were surprised at how well she did.

BTW, Serena said she wanted to return sooner, but her doctors advised her not to.

GoGoMaggie
Apr 5th, 2004, 02:03 AM
Hey you better wake up from dreaming. She hasn't done nothing big yet. The field was an average tier II at best. No big deal. She gotta beat Justine and Kim to impress us. You Willy fans are just making too big a deal out of nothing. That she won it as easily as she did doesn't speak much either. It's a joke someone said she made history coming back from such a long lay-off and winning a "big title" so easily.

Volcana
Apr 5th, 2004, 02:04 AM
...a woman (regardless of how good she is) is out for 8 months can come back and literally storm through a Tier One, or a "Fifth Grand Slam" to win? :confused:
No 'pathetic' is not the adjective that comes to mind. Rather, this shows the difference on the WTA tour between an elite player and a good one. Serena vs justine take 74 could come this week. Meanwhile no Clijsters, no Mauresmo, little Jenn, mediocre Venus and a Lindsay who clearly isn't in the same class as Henin-Hardenne.

It says the 'career high' rankings some players are achieving right now are not an accurate indication of relative ability.

It's a good indication that maybe Serena is as good as her press clippings. Stay tuned.

esquímaux
Apr 5th, 2004, 02:34 AM
I don't think it's pathetic, but it says something :tape:

Gallofa
Apr 5th, 2004, 02:54 AM
I don't think it's pathetic, but it says something :tape:
It does... now, if Martina wins Amelia Island I will seriously start worrying ;) :D

Sam L
Apr 5th, 2004, 02:58 AM
In Serena's interviews she has stated that she was doing strengthining training and other things to keep her in shape. I'm pretty sure she was practicing also, and she had a lot of time to relax mentally and get refreshed. There is nothing like actual match play, but Serena has won tournaments after long lay offs before so it's not a big suprise.

If Serena did lose Miami, I bet she would of been on the courts the next day practing like their was no tommorrow. Serena is motivated by losing, when she loses to an opponent you better believe she will try to get revenge the next time.

I am suprised Venus has not got her game back on track thusfar, but maybe she is not into tennis at the moment. This draw in Miami was really open for her to get to the finals, but she did not show up.
Yes, of course she's been practising all this time.

Rollo
Apr 5th, 2004, 03:04 AM
LOL@ Gallofa:) Someone on the board (maybe Louloubelle) had a great quote. Something like:

"The very top women can fall out of bed and still beat 95% of the tour."


It was true in 1904, 1974 and it's still true in 2004. Women's tennis has never had a lot of depth after the top tier-and I doubt it ever will.

All props to Serena though:worship: -and I can't wait for a Henin-Serena showdown!

Black Mamba.
Apr 5th, 2004, 03:47 AM
A wins a win, I remember last year people were saying that when the Williams sisters weren't in the US Open and Justine won. Yeah most of the top players were out of this tournement, but Serena still one. As many people said it wasn't Justine's fault that the sisters were hurt for last years US Open, and like wise it wasn't Serena's fault that most of the top players were to injured to compete in this tournement.

SelesFan70
Apr 5th, 2004, 04:03 AM
This is like the old argument that Graf wouldn't have won so many Majors had a weirdo freak not stabbed Seles. However, the fact is that Steffi DID win 22 and 1/4 of those in Monica's absence.

The fact is Serena DID win the Nasdaq no matter who was entered and Justine has 3 out of 4 Majors no matter who was entered. It's all good news that all the players are coming back (hurry, Monica! :) ) and the tour will sort itself out by Wimbledon.

tennischick
Apr 5th, 2004, 11:07 AM
i agree with Rollo -- it just indicates the lack of depth on the WTA Tour. period.

Greenout
Apr 5th, 2004, 11:26 AM
The top 5 weren't playing! She didn't face any former grand slam
champions much less anyone with a TIER 1 title in their CV
for that matter.

With injuries, schedules etc...it will be sometime before you have a full
deck of cards in a draw.

If you despise and hold the rest of the tour besides your own favorite
player in such contempt I can't understand why you even bother
watching the WTA? If your favorite loses; you may be bitter and
ridicule a player; but where does this lead too? Sure, I get upset;
but I'm not going to lose a blood vessel with seething hate over
something that for non-tennis fans might seem a bit over the top
and a tad to serious.

Personally for me, I've been enjoying the odd
tournament to re-appreciate old stand or former favorites, discover
new players or watching up and coming players. I suppose being
based out of the USA gives me breathing space, and a chance to
watch matches without ESPN edits and truly finding what it is that
I enjoy about a players game, style , persona etc..

I think the WTA is going thru a nice point right now with alot of
new names, new faces. Tennis fans are always such a sentimental
stubborn bunch, that it's really hard to let certain players go away.
We always associate clay season with spring, summer with WIMBLEDON,
the US OPEN with the start of FALL, the indoor season with winter
and the holidays, the Australian open with the start of a fresh new
year etc..

spike83
Apr 5th, 2004, 11:32 AM
Serena is just that good,
and the difference between her and the rest is huge. That's just how it is, Henin-Hardenne is also pretty much unbeatable, except for some girl called Kuznetsova ;-)

bandabou
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:51 PM
So let me see if I got this right. People wanna act and discredit the victory by Serena( two-time defending champion who has beaten pretty much anybody at this tournament recent years) because the so called top 5 weren´t there?! What top 5?! Justine, has she ever taken a set off Serena on hardcourts?! Kim: Did you see what Serena did to her last year in the semi´s?! Lindsay?! 2-9 career against Serena and that´s with almost all their matches on hardcourts. Amelie?! Please, please..... Myskina?! If Justine can dust her off 2 and 1 at IW, what is Serena gonna do with her?!

And the other funny thing is: Where were all these people when the sisters were absent and thus partially helped bring in the rise of the Belgians?! No Justine´s u.s. open counts because she has become soooooooo good. Good against who?! Against Kim and Jen?! Hello....when was the last time these two have even reached the finals of the U.S. open?! The list goes on and on...

So don´t come and wanna downplay Serena´s win, because she has PROVEN she can beat anybody on hardcourts anyways.

"Sluggy"
Apr 5th, 2004, 01:09 PM
...a woman (regardless of how good she is) is out for 8 months can come back and literally storm through a Tier One, or a "Fifth Grand Slam" to win? :confused:

I dont think it is pathetic. Its more amazing how a player can be that much better than the rest really. Thats all.

DA FOREHAND
Apr 5th, 2004, 01:39 PM
Guys, keep in mind that when Serena was out of 8 months, she wasn't injured ALL THE TIME. She had an initial injury which I'm sure was very serious up until the time of the US Open, but I'm pretty sure she recovered for the year end, and she just wasn't ready to get back to the tour.

Serena (and even Venus) have said that they play for the slams, they don't bother with the small tournaments. They also have their priorities (big tournaments in America that pay big $$$ and give them a lot of publicity). So they're gonna try to win those ones rather than some tournament in the United Arab Emirates.

I've noticed this since like they came onto tour in the late 90's. There's nothing wrong with it. But there's nothing surprising about Serena winning Miami after 8 months off. :shrug:
So you don't think there's any psycology involved in coming back after such a long layoff? You sound like the people who said Monica only had a flesh wound and shouldn't have taken 2 1/2yrs to comeback, afterall the wound was completely healed by the time the French Open rolled around. :fiery: :tape:

pualeez
Apr 5th, 2004, 02:23 PM
If the top players where there it probably would have been a different story. Or maybe Serena would have beaten them too.

But this makes it exciting for the next two GrandSlams, hopefully everyone will be back.

SJW
Apr 5th, 2004, 02:48 PM
i don't think it's pathetic...i'm kinda happy that Serena won :)

but i can understand why you call it pathetic

Gallofa
Apr 5th, 2004, 02:57 PM
So let me see if I got this right. People wanna act and discredit the victory by Serena( two-time defending champion who has beaten pretty much anybody at this tournament recent years) because the so called top 5 weren´t there?!.
It's not a discredit. Personally, I think a win is a win, and you still have to be the best player out there to win, injuries, absentees, lucky draws and everything. But there has been many people in this board talking about "asterisks" for a long time, do you know what I am referring to? I think you do. I guess many people have gotten into the swing of mentioning "asterisks", and applying them to everyone. At least, they show a lack of double standards.

Gallofa
Apr 5th, 2004, 03:00 PM
LOL@ Gallofa:) Someone on the board (maybe Louloubelle) had a great quote. Something like:

"The very top women can fall out of bed and still beat 95% of the tour."


It was true in 1904, 1974 and it's still true in 2004. Women's tennis has never had a lot of depth after the top tier-and I doubt it ever will.

All props to Serena though:worship: -and I can't wait for a Henin-Serena showdown!
Hey Rollo! :wavey:- I agree, the tour has always been like that. Louloubelle is right! and I am also very much looking forward to that Henin-Williams showdown :D

bandabou
Apr 5th, 2004, 03:03 PM
It's not a discredit. Personally, I think a win is a win, and you still have to be the best player out there to win, injuries, absentees, lucky draws and everything. But there has been many people in this board talking about "asterisks" for a long time, do you know what I am referring to? I think you do. I guess many people have gotten into the swing of mentioning "asterisks", and applying them to everyone. At least, they show a lack of double standards.

I got it. :yeah:

GermanBoy
Apr 5th, 2004, 03:04 PM
...a woman (regardless of how good she is) is out for 8 months can come back and literally storm through a Tier One, or a "Fifth Grand Slam" to win? :confused:
I think this question is pathetic. Is it an often used word in the US? Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic - everybody says pathetic.... :rolleyes:

azza
Apr 5th, 2004, 03:06 PM
Likhovsteva took a set of Serena :o:o:o:o

Andy T
Apr 5th, 2004, 03:25 PM
...a woman (regardless of how good she is) is out for 8 months can come back and literally storm through a Tier One, or a "Fifth Grand Slam" to win? :confused:

For a start, if you just saw Serena's opponents (no offence to any of them intended), you could be forgiven for thinking that this event were tier III: Marrero (rank 95), Likhovstseva (40) Sharapova (24) Craybas (76) Dementieva (8). Serena's win doesn't reflect on the tour in general at all; it just proves she's better than all the players she met (but most people thought that anyway). We don't know what would have happened if (as could have been the case) she had met top 16 opponents in 4 consecutive rounds. It would have been tough physically to maintain a high level for 4 consecutive matches.

Second, Serena (and Justine) are greats in the making. Greats are capable of this and that is no reflection on the tour either. Serena came back when she was good and ready and relatively happy with her game and fitness maybe she learned from Venus' experience). She did it right and consequently won.

DA FOREHAND
Apr 5th, 2004, 04:22 PM
For a start, if you just saw Serena's opponents (no offence to any of them intended), you could be forgiven for thinking that this event were tier III: Marrero (rank 95), Likhovstseva (40) Sharapova (24) Craybas (76) Dementieva (8). Serena's win doesn't reflect on the tour in general at all; it just proves she's better than all the players she met (but most people thought that anyway). We don't know what would have happened if (as could have been the case) she had met top 16 opponents in 4 consecutive rounds. It would have been tough physically to maintain a high level for 4 consecutive matches.

Second, Serena (and Justine) are greats in the making. Greats are capable of this and that is no reflection on the tour either. Serena came back when she was good and ready and relatively happy with her game and fitness maybe she learned from Venus' experience). She did it right and consequently won.
Like I said no easier or tougher than Monica's run to the Canadian Open title in 95.

Andy T
Apr 5th, 2004, 04:52 PM
Personally, I think Seles' achievement is greater because of the much longer time she was away from the game, the psychological aspect of the comeback, the fact that she beat three top 20 players and the crushing nature of all her victories in the tournament.

64 B BYE
32 W Kimberly PO-MESSERLI (USA) 6-0 6-3
16 W Nathalie TAUZIAT (FRA, ranked top 20, seed 12) 6-2 6-2
QF W Anke HUBER (GER, # 10, seed 7) 6-3 6-2
SF W Gabriela SABATINI (ARG, #8, seed 6) 6-1 6-0
FR W Amanda COETZER (RSA) 6-0 6-1

However, that is beside the point. The thread starter seemed to imply that because Serena won Miami, the rest of the tour is crap. I just wanted to comment that, imo Serena's road to the title in Miami was tier III level and that while it says heaps about Serena's prowess, it says flap all about the tour.

Crazy_Fool
Apr 5th, 2004, 06:36 PM
There is a lack of depth in the womens game but then that is pretty obvious. Myskina and Dementiva are not really top 10 players, but the depth is not there....

bandabou
Apr 5th, 2004, 06:42 PM
Personally, I think Seles' achievement is greater because of the much longer time she was away from the game, the psychological aspect of the comeback, the fact that she beat three top 20 players and the crushing nature of all her victories in the tournament.

64 B BYE
32 W Kimberly PO-MESSERLI (USA) 6-0 6-3
16 W Nathalie TAUZIAT (FRA, ranked top 20, seed 12) 6-2 6-2
QF W Anke HUBER (GER, # 10, seed 7) 6-3 6-2
SF W Gabriela SABATINI (ARG, #8, seed 6) 6-1 6-0
FR W Amanda COETZER (RSA) 6-0 6-1

However, that is beside the point. The thread starter seemed to imply that because Serena won Miami, the rest of the tour is crap. I just wanted to comment that, imo Serena's road to the title in Miami was tier III level and that while it says heaps about Serena's prowess, it says flap all about the tour.

Or is it that the Monica victory exposed the wta-tour even more?! If beating a top 10 player 6-1 6-1 isn´t exposing, maybe beating a no.8 player 6-1 6-0 in your first tournament back in 2 1/2 years is even more telling.

But funny thing is: the tour was deeper back then....

Andy T
Apr 5th, 2004, 06:55 PM
I guess we all have our own feelings about this. Mine is that the tour is stronger in depth now than in 1995 in that there are 3 relaistic contenders for Grand Slams (Serena, Justine and Kim) plus another 4 players who are just below (Venus, Jen, Lindsay, Amélie). The problem recently has been that so many of these 7 have been injured that the tour has seemed to lack depth. Serena has shown us all that she's that she's still up there.

In 1995, Steffi was head and shoulders above the rest, with Sanchez the next best (but equivalent to an Amélie or Jen today) and Monica was clearly better than Arantxa, even in 95. Monica did expose the lack of credible challengers to Graf.

bandabou
Apr 5th, 2004, 07:12 PM
I guess we all have our own feelings about this. Mine is that the tour is stronger in depth now than in 1995 in that there are 3 relaistic contenders for Grand Slams (Serena, Justine and Kim) plus another 4 players who are just below (Venus, Jen, Lindsay, Amélie). The problem recently has been that so many of these 7 have been injured that the tour has seemed to lack depth. Serena has shown us all that she's that she's still up there.

In 1995, Steffi was head and shoulders above the rest, with Sanchez the next best (but equivalent to an Amélie or Jen today) and Monica was clearly better than Arantxa, even in 95. Monica did expose the lack of credible challengers to Graf.

so....Serena´s showing last week really exposed the tour or not?

Crazy_Fool
Apr 5th, 2004, 07:48 PM
so....Serena´s showing last week really exposed the tour or not?
Yeh, but its not something we didn't know already. At the moment the womens game is soooo boring, but i hope we get some action soon. We really need all the top players at their best, not one or 2.

Jakeev
Apr 5th, 2004, 07:52 PM
...a woman (regardless of how good she is) is out for 8 months can come back and literally storm through a Tier One, or a "Fifth Grand Slam" to win? :confused:
I know your a Williams fan but I still sense you don't even realize how good Serena is as a player.

Before Miami started you didn't think Serena would or could win based on the fact she was out 8 months and would be rusty.

Regardless of whatever kind of depth that exists on the women's tour today, Serena is still a larger than life figure on the tennis court. Now perhaps Serena did have an easy draw, but she still played hard to win those matches.

Give Serena some credit where it's due.

SJW
Apr 5th, 2004, 07:56 PM
I know your a Williams Venus fan but I still sense you don't even realize how good Serena is as a player.
:)

bandabou
Apr 5th, 2004, 08:11 PM
I know your a Williams fan but I still sense you don't even realize how good Serena is as a player.

Before Miami started you didn't think Serena would or could win based on the fact she was out 8 months and would be rusty.

Regardless of whatever kind of depth that exists on the women's tour today, Serena is still a larger than life figure on the tennis court. Now perhaps Serena did have an easy draw, but she still played hard to win those matches.

Give Serena some credit where it's due.

Well said...Serena is real good!

laj
Apr 5th, 2004, 08:15 PM
I think this question is pathetic. Is it an often used word in the US? Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic - everybody says pathetic.... :rolleyes:I totally agree with GermanBoy! The inherent folly in the question lies in the phrase the author of the original question (a well known Serena detractor, who masquerades in cyberspace as something else) enclosed in brackets :-"(regardless of how good she is)". That, therefore, makes the question quite baseless.

tennisIlove09
Apr 5th, 2004, 08:30 PM
To everyone who said I was a Venus fan and I'm not giving credit to Serena should start reading all my posts.

http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=109220

:wavey: :rolleyes: :retard:

udachi Elena
Apr 5th, 2004, 08:35 PM
Myskina and Dementiva are not really top 10 players, but the depth is not there....
Most ignorant statement in this thread :rolleyes:

pigam
Apr 5th, 2004, 08:43 PM
Mmmm...
I hounestly think this one is about Serena.
Very few players could do this, I think.
In the very few moments of Serenamatches I saw last week,
the ting that stood out was her SERVE.
Now, Justine, e.g. has a good serve, Venus too...
but nobody's is as consisten (yet/anymore) as Serena's
A good serve is what can win you matches is this kinda tournament
(I'm sorry - no matter how great her win is, she didn't exactly
faved the best returners in the game either).
Serena just waited with her comeback untill she was READY.
Sorry to drag in the great Justine&&Carlos
but I read an interview with them 3 weeks ago, and they
told the press/the Justine fans (in a way) that they were
SURE Serena would only come back in full form.

I've said this from the beginning (you can verify this)
Serena is able to do these things.
Comming back @ the perfect time
maybe a litlle 'luck' with her draw
having her finetuned (?) serve
add to that a little
'intimidation Serena -I still have my SerenaSlam- factor'
===> et voilà she pulls it off.

Nice. She especially (and let's say 3-4 other players IMHO)
is a level above the rest. But in how many sports do we see this?
In quite alot actually!

Serendy Willick
Apr 5th, 2004, 10:18 PM
Hey you better wake up from dreaming. She hasn't done nothing big yet. The field was an average tier II at best. No big deal. She gotta beat Justine and Kim to impress us. You Willy fans are just making too big a deal out of nothing. That she won it as easily as she did doesn't speak much either. It's a joke someone said she made history coming back from such a long lay-off and winning a "big title" so easily.
So now the cheater and Kim are the ones to beat because they won tournements for nine months straight in which (in many of those tourneys) they didnt even have to beat a top ten player?. Didnt the cheater just win Indian waste on a wasteful field?:rolleyes: . I'm sorry but the Belgian nuts surely have no room to talk considering the free passes they have been given recently.

faboozadoo15
Apr 5th, 2004, 10:37 PM
Personally, I think Seles' achievement is greater because of the much longer time she was away from the game, the psychological aspect of the comeback, the fact that she beat three top 20 players and the crushing nature of all her victories in the tournament.

i agree
but don't plan on convincing someone who lies, cheats, and steals

joao
Apr 5th, 2004, 10:41 PM
Serena's victory is not surprising (especially in such a weak field) ... but it's just makes me a lot more sad about Venus ... hopefully she'll get some inspiration from Serena's victory ... If Serena can do it, Venus should be able to do it too ... :(

wayitis
Apr 5th, 2004, 10:44 PM
Summary of this thread:
1- Serena is great - true!
2- The WTA Tour is pathetic - even truer!

wayitis
Apr 5th, 2004, 10:48 PM
and for those saying that he is giving little credit to Serena, it's the other way around... YOU are giving too much credit to the Tour... a year ago the titles were being split between the Williams and the Belgians... a year without the Williams and guess what? It's still the same! the other girls never advanced....