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fan911
Apr 4th, 2004, 08:48 PM
tough one

saphir1
Apr 4th, 2004, 08:49 PM
tough one
spontaneously I'd say Iva Majoli...

udachi Elena
Apr 4th, 2004, 08:49 PM
I'm not even going to participate in this poll. No one who wins a slam should bev considered "overrated" and this will only start a fight.

A'DAM
Apr 4th, 2004, 08:51 PM
There are no overrated GS champion!!!
If you win one you are in tennis history books and no one can change it!!! :worship: :worship: :worship:

morbidangle
Apr 4th, 2004, 08:52 PM
What the hell is Steffi Graf doing on that list!

sartrista7
Apr 4th, 2004, 08:54 PM
spontaneously I'd say Iva Majoli...

'Overrated' isn't the same as 'least good'. No one rates Majoli - if anything, she's underrated, as she's seen as simply a one hit wonder even though she was a solid top 10 player before RG '97.

Capriati is my answer, even though they obviously deserve the utmost respect.

bandabou
Apr 4th, 2004, 08:54 PM
Overrated as overrated goes my vote goes to Iva.....man, did she vanish from the face of the earth after RG 97 or what?!

fan911
Apr 4th, 2004, 08:55 PM
Steffi is on this list because most of her grandslams came either when Navratilova was too old, or after Monica's stabbing. So yeah she has slams, but overall she's overrated.

udachi Elena
Apr 4th, 2004, 08:57 PM
21 grand slams is over-rated?? plllleasee... when you say someone who won 21 grand slams is over-rated, then what are the other players? nobody's?

OUT!
Apr 4th, 2004, 08:57 PM
What the hell is Steffi Graf doing on that list!I know! How can someone who won 21 GS sinlges titles be considered in any way, shape or form, overrated?:confused:

- L i n a -
Apr 4th, 2004, 08:59 PM
One of the crappy Aussie players who won it in the 70's, when the field was 90% Aussies...

Dava
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:00 PM
Iva or Gabby all the others I consider legends on the tour, for my own personal reasons.

OUT!
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:00 PM
Steffi is on this list because most of her grandslams came either when Navratilova was too old, or after Monica's stabbing. So yeah she has slams, but overall she's overrated.So by that logic Justine is overrated because she won the last two GS when Serena wasn't there. I mean really...

fan911
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:00 PM
I know! How can someone who won 21 GS sinlges titles be considered in any way, shape or form, overrated?:confused:

It's the 22 GS singles titles that is the overrated part because she would have finished with around 15, and wouldn't be considered the greatest. So yeah she's overrated. It's just that events made her numbers look bigger.

A'DAM
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:01 PM
Steffi is on this list because most of her grandslams came either when Navratilova was too old, or after Monica's stabbing. So yeah she has slams, but overall she's overrated.

Sorry for my bad word but... MAN... BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :fiery: :fiery: :fiery:

udachi Elena
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:02 PM
It's the 22 GS singles titles that is the overrated part because she would have finished with around 15, and wouldn't be considered the greatest. So yeah she's overrated. It's just that events made her numbers look bigger.
it's 21, and no grand slam is overrated

fan911
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:02 PM
Would aranxta reach no.1 if Monica wasn't stabbed? I don't think so. So she's overrated. I doubt she would also win 2 slams in 1994 with Monica still playing.

As for justine, it's too early to judge.

faboozadoo15
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:04 PM
sports illustrated called steffi graf the most overrated tennis player of all time-- so obviously many people see an obvious "hole" in her career, and her numbers are inflated, and it's easy to be overrated when people wrongfully call you "the greatest player of all time" so frequently...

udachi Elena
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:05 PM
:banghead: This thread is :retard:

fan911
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:05 PM
sports illustrated called steffi graf the most overrated tennis player of all time-- so obviously many people see an obvious "hole" in her career, and her numbers are inflated, and it's easy to be overrated when people wrongfully call you "the greatest player of all time" so frequently...

THANK YOU....

A'DAM
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:05 PM
Would aranxta reach no.1 if Monica wasn't stabbed? I don't think so. So she's overrated. I doubt she would also win 2 slams in 1994 with Monica still playing.

As for justine, it's too early to judge.

Gush man just stop to talk, every post you send is just 100% stupid!!!
Go sleep or something!!! :fiery: :fiery: :fiery: :fiery: :fiery:

Martian KC
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:05 PM
graf:o

SJW
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:08 PM
calling Steffi over rated is bullshit.

did she stab Monica? no

so get a frickin clue

- L i n a -
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:10 PM
fan911 is an obvious troll. Stop feeding.

Sincerely,
Leena, Queen Troll.

faboozadoo15
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:10 PM
calling Steffi over rated is bullshit.

did she stab Monica? no

so get a frickin clue
u can be overrated and still be great
no one's taking away her grand slams or saying she plays a significant role in tennis history-- but whenever anyone calls her the greatest player of all time when she wasn't even the greatest player in her own generation-- that is BULLSHIT! and thus, she is overrated when that is said.

for-sure
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:11 PM
ALL of those PLAYERS are over-rated CAUSE Serena would beat them in straight sets if she was playing at 100%

fan911
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:12 PM
u can be overrated and still be great
no one's taking away her grand slams or saying she plays a significant role in tennis history-- but whenever anyone calls her the greatest player of all time when she wasn't even the greatest player in her own generation-- that is BULLSHIT! and thus, she is overrated when that is said.

Great post.

GoDominique
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:13 PM
Great thread. :haha:

A'DAM
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:13 PM
ALL of those PLAYERS are over-rated CAUSE Serena would beat them in straight sets if she was playing at 100%

Really??? :lol:

Joana
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:16 PM
How exactly is Iva Majoli overrated? She is rarely mentioned nowadays.
And we can call every GS champion overrated.
Steffi was already explained.
Monica? Steffi was struggling, Martina too old.
Arantxa? Monica wasn't playing.
Hingis? Just filling the gap between Steffi and big hitters.
Davenport? The sisters weren't ready yet.
Venus and Serena? No real competition.
Justine? The sisters were injured.

So, as you can see people, they are all overrated and don't deserve to be talked about.

A'DAM
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:19 PM
How exactly is Iva Majoli overrated? She is rarely mentioned nowadays.
And we can call every GS champion overrated.
Steffi was already explained.
Monica? Steffi was struggling, Martina too old.
Arantxa? Monica wasn't playing.
Hingis? Just filling the gap between Steffi and big hitters.
Davenport? The sisters weren't ready yet.
Venus and Serena? No real competition.
Justine? The sisters were injured.

So, as you can see people, they are all overrated and don't deserve to be talked about.

MMM Wise!!!

SJW
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:20 PM
How exactly is Iva Majoli overrated? She is rarely mentioned nowadays.
And we can call every GS champion overrated.
Steffi was already explained.
Monica? Steffi was struggling, Martina too old.
Arantxa? Monica wasn't playing.
Hingis? Just filling the gap between Steffi and big hitters.
Davenport? The sisters weren't ready yet.
Venus and Serena? No real competition.
Justine? The sisters were injured.

So, as you can see people, they are all overrated and don't deserve to be talked about.
you tell em :yeah:

SJW
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:21 PM
u can be overrated and still be great
no one's taking away her grand slams or saying she plays a significant role in tennis history-- but whenever anyone calls her the greatest player of all time when she wasn't even the greatest player in her own generation-- that is BULLSHIT! and thus, she is overrated when that is said.
Henin's biggest competition for the US and AO were on the sidelines. she could be considered as really over rated. but she's not. she's won them. her name is engraved on those trophies. is it fair to call her over rated? i dont think so :shrug:

Jakeev
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:22 PM
I'm not even going to participate in this poll. No one who wins a slam should bev considered "overrated" and this will only start a fight.

Best post in here.......

Joana
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:29 PM
calling Steffi over rated is bullshit.

did she stab Monica? no


According to some nutcases I know, she did.

Dava
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:33 PM
I dont think Justine is over rated, cos she had made finals of GS finals before, and also she beat Serena at the french.

But some slam winners have done littel after or before winning a slam.

Aloso Steffi being overated is a farce, there is no way she can be overated.

crazillo
Apr 4th, 2004, 09:42 PM
delete this thrad, kids are posting again.

jdog3008
Apr 4th, 2004, 10:19 PM
it's 21, and no grand slam is overrated
it's 22. :)

for-sure
Apr 4th, 2004, 10:52 PM
ALL of these ladies would have been crushed by the Queen Serena...Making all of them OVER_RATED

- L i n a -
Apr 4th, 2004, 10:54 PM
it's 21, and no grand slam is overrated
1) 87 Roland Garros
2) 88 Aussie Open
3) 88 Roland Garros
4) 88 Wimbledon
5) 88 US Open
6) 89 Aussie Open
7) 89 Wimbledon
8) 89 US Open
9) 90 Aussie Open
10) 91 Wimbledon
11) 92 Wimbledon
12) 93 Roland Garros
13) 93 Wimbledon
14) 93 US Open
15) 94 Aussie Open
16) 95 Roland Garros
17) 95 Wimbledon
18) 95 US Open
19) 96 Roland Garros
20) 96 Wimbledon
21) 96 US Open
22) 99 Roland Garros

I hope I'm right on that. :p

udachi Elena
Apr 4th, 2004, 10:56 PM
I thought it was 21 sorry! and so did someone else, I'll have to look again, either way, NOT overrated..

OUT!
Apr 4th, 2004, 11:07 PM
I thought it was 21 sorry! and so did someone else, I'll have to look again, either way, NOT overrated..LOL I thought it was 21 as well :o

irma
Apr 4th, 2004, 11:32 PM
All the players who won a slam between 87-99
people like to bash a certain player but as soon as another player won all excuses, reasons and bashings don't count. people even take the words of a open discriminator (still nice that that article was not about Steffi. it makes my point more clear) as prove how right they are

:lol:

davenport_1
Apr 4th, 2004, 11:39 PM
The Williams sisters are highly over-rated.

Crazy_Fool
Apr 4th, 2004, 11:44 PM
I think all players are over-rated as the hype surrounding them is scary. I think none of the players are as good as people make out.

faboozadoo15
Apr 4th, 2004, 11:52 PM
Henin's biggest competition for the US and AO were on the sidelines. she could be considered as really over rated. but she's not. she's won them. her name is engraved on those trophies. is it fair to call her over rated? i dont think so :shrug:
subconsciously in your mind, to make a comparison like that, you must equate someone being stabbed to 2 girls who are injured... and that's not fair.
injuries occur because of a lack of fitness/training, whatever. they are your fault. justine was the person who was not injured, played well and won.

it's different if the person who is dominating is stabbed in the back, and then steffi takes home the trophies after that. monica didn't injur herself.

faboozadoo15
Apr 4th, 2004, 11:56 PM
1) 9) 90 Aussie Open
10) 91 Wimbledon
11) 92 Wimbledon
12) 93 Roland Garros
:p
oh hey look... monica won EIGHT in between those....

SJW
Apr 4th, 2004, 11:57 PM
subconsciously in your mind, to make a comparison like that, you must equate someone being stabbed to 2 girls who are injured... and that's not fair.
injuries occur because of a lack of fitness/training, whatever. they are your fault. justine was the person who was not injured, played well and won.

it's different if the person who is dominating is stabbed in the back, and then steffi takes home the trophies after that. monica didn't injur herself.
i love Monica, and all respect to her, but i was using your logic. it's not Steffi's fault she was stabbed, and it's not Henin's fault the sisters were injured. :shrug:

faboozadoo15
Apr 4th, 2004, 11:57 PM
Monica? Steffi was struggling, Martina too old.

steffi was struggling? yes, with playing monica...

faboozadoo15
Apr 4th, 2004, 11:58 PM
i love Monica, and all respect to her, but i was using your logic. it's not Steffi's fault she was stabbed, and it's not Henin's fault the sisters were injured. :shrug:
exactly, but it's the williams sisters fault that they are injured and it wasn't monica's fault that she was stabbed when she was at the top of the game.

SJW
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:01 AM
exactly, but it's the williams sisters fault that they are injured and it wasn't monica's fault that she was stabbed when she was at the top of the game.no. injuries are things that just happen. you can sit on your backside 99% of your life and still get injured.

V&SGotItGoingOn
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:08 AM
Funny that Mary Pierce is not even mentioned, I think if you are going to talk about overrated she could be mentioned too... however I find this a dumb post, if you win a grandslam you deserve it. Plus you deserve the 'rating' that winning a grandslam entails.

faboozadoo15
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:14 AM
no. injuries are things that just happen. you can sit on your backside 99% of your life and still get injured.
like spontaneously... all of a sudden, you're sitting there and poof it happens???
not for tennis players, i wouldn't imagine. like a footwork error during a point that causes a knee/ankle injury-- it's unfortunate, but it's your fault.
falling down the stairs-- probably your fault
i can't think of an injury that just "happens" other than perhaps an illness..

Jericho
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:15 AM
exactly, but it's the williams sisters fault that they are injured and it wasn't monica's fault that she was stabbed when she was at the top of the game.
OMG, that is ridiculous...how can it be your fault if you get injured, that means that its Monica's fault that she's injured right now too :rolleyes:

faboozadoo15
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:16 AM
OMG, that is ridiculous...how can it be your fault if you get injured, that means that its Monica's fault that she's injured right now too :rolleyes:
yes, it is monica's fault she's injured right now. i'm not mad at her for it being her fault, but it's her fault nonetheless. just because of that it doesn't mean you can't have sympathy.

ktwtennis
Apr 5th, 2004, 01:07 AM
As much as I hate to say it, Iva hasn't performed to great standards before or after her GS win...

GoGoMaggie
Apr 5th, 2004, 03:32 AM
Graf may be the most overrated on this poll and Arantxa is pre much as much.
They wouldn't have as many GS trophies in their shelves as they do hadn't Monice gotten stabbed. Of course obviously it's not their fault and like it or not, they took advantage of Monica's absence. Getting injured and getting stabbed are totally different. I'm not a huge fan of Monica but I'm 100% sure she would have won at least 4 more GS titles if it hadn't been for the incident.

SpikeyAidanm
Apr 5th, 2004, 03:33 AM
Elizabeth Ryan :zzz:

Purple_Llama
Apr 5th, 2004, 03:37 AM
I had to vote for Conchita.Her career has been a very good one,but I think she could've converted more losses into wins.
I rememeber in the mid 90's,whenever she met Graf in a semi at a slam,she would just crumble & lose 1-6,3-6 or something.It used to make me cringe,as she could've added a couple of more slams next to her Wimbledon trophy

Sadka
Apr 5th, 2004, 04:32 AM
i dont think anyone is overrated, if you win grand slam, then you deserve it :confused:

no matter who was / wasn't playing at the time ;)

hingis-seles
Apr 5th, 2004, 05:08 AM
no. injuries are things that just happen. you can sit on your backside 99% of your life and still get injured.
Injuries are a part of the game, a part of being a professional tennis player. Being stabbed in the back by a nutjob during a changeover is not.

faboozadoo15
Apr 5th, 2004, 05:28 AM
i have to disagree with the people who pick conchita as an overrated grand slam champ-- she's probably the most underrated multip;e grand slam champ of all time and shes won so many big titles throughout her career and is still chugging along without much attention at all. i dont think shes been picked to win a big title in years...
mos def underrated

spencercarlos
Apr 5th, 2004, 06:12 AM
I picked her for many reasons. Although i made a stupid mistake by voting for Conchita and not for voting Iva on this poll, i consider them 1)Iva and 2)Conchita. Iva for obvious reasons and Conchita because half of her titles are Tier III events and because she never beat the top players in a more consistent basis than others did.

irma
Apr 5th, 2004, 06:23 AM
i have to disagree with the people who pick conchita as an overrated grand slam champ-- she's probably the most underrated multip;e grand slam champ of all time and shes won so many big titles throughout her career and is still chugging along without much attention at all. i dont think shes been picked to win a big title in years...
mos def underrated
:haha:

sorry but you have to admit that's really funny after all your other posts!
and that's my reason why I voted for Conchita. I have nothing against her, but those double standards are ridiculous and face it you can't even deny it:o

faboozadoo15
Apr 5th, 2004, 06:33 AM
i really don't get it-- conchita is a multiple grand slam champ, and in her career, as far as i've noticed, she's hardly had any attention at all. how can someone who is so constantly overlooked be overrated???

steffi is easily overrated when people call her "the greatest of all time" some agree with that assessment, many don't. to you, if she is in fact the greatest, then sure, she isn't overrated. but to everyone who cringes whenever they hear someone make the mistake of calling steffi the "greatest" she is overrated. and that's a whole lot of people.

spencercarlos
Apr 5th, 2004, 06:38 AM
i really don't get it-- conchita is a multiple grand slam champ, and in her career, as far as i've noticed, she's hardly had any attention at all. how can someone who is so constantly overlooked be overrated???

steffi is easily overrated when people call her "the greatest of all time" some agree with that assessment, many don't. to you, if she is in fact the greatest, then sure, she isn't overrated. but to everyone who cringes whenever they hear someone make the mistake of calling steffi the "greatest" she is overrated. and that's a whole lot of people.
Multiple Grand Slam CHamp Conchita?

jay_k
Apr 5th, 2004, 06:40 AM
Conchita has only won one slam 1994 Wim , RU at AO and RG and a SF innumerable times :) at all the slams . Nothing overrated about that :worship:

irma
Apr 5th, 2004, 06:45 AM
i really don't get it-- conchita is a multiple grand slam champ, and in her career, as far as i've noticed, she's hardly had any attention at all. how can someone who is so constantly overlooked be overrated???

steffi is easily overrated when people call her "the greatest of all time" some agree with that assessment, many don't. to you, if she is in fact the greatest, then sure, she isn't overrated. but to everyone who cringes whenever they hear someone make the mistake of calling steffi the "greatest" she is overrated. and that's a whole lot of people.


when everybody started to call Steffi the greatest after french 99 I got annoyed too. all those bandwagoner hoppers. were they also claiming the same in Berlin weeks before when Steffi was playing the worst tennis of her life?
so I have my opinion and as said a million times and I will keep repeat it I thought the same on 29 april 93 and why should an idiot change my views

and about Conchita. you claim Steffi can't be the greatest because of what happened to Monica. As said many times I understand that (I really do. If I was a Monica fan I would more then cringe), but I think people should be measured the same. Not in we like them parts

when Steffi's titles are inflated then the titles of a player who won her first tier 1 10 days after and reached her first slam semi two months later are definitely more then inflated too

DunkMachine
Apr 5th, 2004, 06:47 AM
I'd HAVE to say Sabatini. The only reason she got any attention was because of her pretty face. She was never really that good.

GoGoMaggie
Apr 5th, 2004, 06:58 AM
I'd HAVE to say Sabatini. The only reason she got any attention was because of her pretty face. She was never really that good.
I doubt you were watching tennis in her prime days.

spencercarlos
Apr 5th, 2004, 07:01 AM
I'd HAVE to say Sabatini. The only reason she got any attention was because of her pretty face. She was never really that good.
She beat Seles 3 times (twice in Rome finals in 91 and 92) when Seles was at her best. Not to mention her 11 wins over Graf, 12 wins over Arantxa, 9 against Conchita, and beaten the likes of Navratilova and Evert as well.
3 Grand slam finals all of them vs Steffi Graf.
2 Masters wins. Oh yes that pretty face made all the work :rolleyes:

morbidangle
Apr 5th, 2004, 08:58 AM
I dont think of the above is over rated!
Iva- 1 slam. Should have done A LOT better after that slam win, but didn't. Still she thoroughly deserved her slam (constant top 5 player in 96, 97) She just lost her motivation.
Gaby- Wayyyy too good to be a one slam wonder.
Conchita -1 slam. Had the potential to win more.
Jana- see above
Jennifer- Going by her 90-92 results, u can even call her an underachiever.
ASV- 4 titles out of 12 grandslam finals! C'mon 12 finals! not over rated!

and Steffi is Steffi! Monica or no Monica, she is wayyy too good to be in a list like this.

irma
Apr 5th, 2004, 10:31 AM
the overrated one has a stat of 116-25 against these players. already three lost more then 25 times so more often then the overrated one lost to all of them together :tape:

propi
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:32 PM
I picked her for many reasons. Although i made a stupid mistake by voting for Conchita and not for voting Iva on this poll, i consider them 1)Iva and 2)Conchita. Iva for obvious reasons and Conchita because half of her titles are Tier III events and because she never beat the top players in a more consistent basis than others did.
How surprising is this!!! :eek:

I don't think any GS is overated, they won because they were the best then

spike83
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:35 PM
majoli only won by accident, because Hingis choked during the final ;)

Kart
Apr 5th, 2004, 12:54 PM
:smash:

:smash:

:smash:

:smash:

:smash:

:smash:

:smash:

:smash:

For the seven people who voted for Sabatini so far :armed:.

How can you overate a grand slam champion ? :rolleyes:

All the people on that list have multiple big titles, or at least reached high career rankings with consistently good results.

The all earned their titles and really deserve a bit of respect instead of criticism IMHO.

Winning a grand slam title seems to be more of an invitation for abuse that it is for celebration around here it seems ...

DA FOREHAND
Apr 5th, 2004, 01:28 PM
Steffi is on this list because most of her grandslams came either when Navratilova was too old, or after Monica's stabbing. So yeah she has slams, but overall she's overrated.


You and the thread maker are both fucking idiots! She's the only player in your lifetime to have won THE GRAND SLAM!

10-5 Lifetime
I don't think Iva is overrated, she was never hyped, nor was ASV,Jana, or Conchita.

Sabitini has only one slam, but many more titles than the Capster...I'd say it's a toss up.

DA FOREHAND
Apr 5th, 2004, 01:32 PM
when everybody started to call Steffi the greatest after french 99 I got annoyed too. all those bandwagoner hoppers. were they also claiming the same in Berlin weeks before when Steffi was playing the worst tennis of her life?
so I have my opinion and as said a million times and I will keep repeat it I thought the same on 29 april 93 and why should an idiot change my views

and about Conchita. you claim Steffi can't be the greatest because of what happened to Monica. As said many times I understand that (I really do. If I was a Monica fan I would more then cringe), but I think people should be measured the same. Not in we like them parts

when Steffi's titles are inflated then the titles of a player who won her first tier 1 10 days after and reached her first slam semi two months later are definitely more then inflated too

Did you think Monica was great when Hingis was kicking her ass left and right, including a double bagel? :lol: :tape: :wavey: :rolleyes:

DA FOREHAND
Apr 5th, 2004, 01:38 PM
Graf may be the most overrated on this poll and Arantxa is pre much as much.
They wouldn't have as many GS trophies in their shelves as they do hadn't Monice gotten stabbed. Of course obviously it's not their fault and like it or not, they took advantage of Monica's absence. Getting injured and getting stabbed are totally different. I'm not a huge fan of Monica but I'm 100% sure she would have won at least 4 more GS titles if it hadn't been for the incident.
another idiot!

Steffi had 11 slams before you knew who Monica was...including THE GRAND SLAM.. something Monica never came close to achieving, hell she doesn't even have a career slam. :wavey:

You little Selestials kill me thinking Monica would have won every slam she entered from 93- on...if she'd gotten herself inshape she would have more than 9 now.

irma
Apr 5th, 2004, 01:58 PM
Did you think Monica was great when Hingis was kicking her ass left and right, including a double bagel? :lol: :tape: :wavey: :rolleyes:
I didn't, but then I am no Monica fan of course;)
I also thought after french 99 that Steffi was the greatest, but then I also thought that when Steffi was playing Sandra Nacuk in Berlin not suddenly when she won the french open :lol: (it just consolidated my Steffi on clay view which was nice)

Vass22
Apr 5th, 2004, 02:08 PM
No one is over-rated. All Slam Champions were top-10 players, which means that they had been playing well enough. Even one Slam Wonders are not over rated. What if Anastasia Myskina hops out and wins a Grand Slam? I doubt that anybody will be calling her over rated.

Experimentee
Apr 5th, 2004, 03:43 PM
'Overrated' isn't the same as 'least good'. No one rates Majoli - if anything, she's underrated, as she's seen as simply a one hit wonder even though she was a solid top 10 player before RG '97.

Capriati is my answer, even though they obviously deserve the utmost respect.

I agree. If anything Iva is underrated, as since she didnt do anything after RG people deride her as being a one hit wonder even though she had some notable achievements since then.
Capriati was always overhyped as the next greatest tennis player, and even with 3 Slams, she still didnt live up to what everyone was saying in the early 90's.

VivalaSeles
Apr 5th, 2004, 06:16 PM
Did you think Monica was great when Hingis was kicking her ass left and right, including a double bagel? :lol: :tape: :wavey: :rolleyes:
And was Steffi great when she was losing to Coetzer 6-0 6-1 ? :p

irma
Apr 5th, 2004, 06:21 PM
And was Steffi great when she was losing to Coetzer 6-0 6-1 ? :p
yes and as said steffi was even greater when she achieved it to play worse two years later;)

that's the nice thing of being a fan. you can be so incredible biased :lol:

flyingmachine
Apr 5th, 2004, 06:26 PM
There are no overrated GS champion!!!
If you win one you are in tennis history books and no one can change it!!! :worship: :worship: :worship:
:worship: :worship: :worship:

DA FOREHAND
Apr 5th, 2004, 06:48 PM
And was Steffi great when she was losing to Coetzer 6-0 6-1 ? :p
Yes she was...she solidified her greatness in 1988 The Golden Grand Slam :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :lol:

fammmmedspin
Apr 5th, 2004, 06:59 PM
Steffi is on this list because most of her grandslams came either when Navratilova was too old, or after Monica's stabbing. So yeah she has slams, but overall she's overrated.
just like Navratilova won because Court was too old and Serena won because Hingis wore the wrong shoes and Jennifer won because Serena was studying and Venus won because Serena was to young and Monica won because Graf wasn't as good in 1992 as she would be later and Bush is President because someone shot JFK which produced Vietnam which produced Carter who was so awful he produced Reagan who begat Bush who made people try Clinton and then go back to Bush2..........

They all won their slams because no one else was better - the question is silly.

GermanBoy
Apr 5th, 2004, 07:58 PM
24 x Jen? :mad: :fiery: :mad:
12 x Steffi? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

alfajeffster
Apr 5th, 2004, 08:02 PM
There are only 3 Grand Slam Champions in the history of women's tennis: Maureen Connolly, Margaret Court, and Steffi Graf. Winning one or two Majors doesn't constitute a Grand Slam. They're not Grand Slam tournaments individually, they're Majors.

alextreiber04
Apr 5th, 2004, 08:07 PM
One of the crappy Aussie players who won it in the 70's, when the field was 90% Aussies...

Yes, I think Anzela was her name.

:scared: :anzela: :retard:

faboozadoo15
Apr 5th, 2004, 10:30 PM
Did you think Monica was great when Hingis was kicking her ass left and right, including a double bagel? :lol: :tape: :wavey: :rolleyes:
omG... lol, monica was limping all the way through that match-- if u were able to watch it.. and martina hingis even has a 1-1 win over venus who was perfectly fine and on a long win streak...

Martian Jeza
Apr 5th, 2004, 10:32 PM
Steffi Graff in that list ? Yeah Right ! It says enough about your tennis knowledge... :rolleyes:

faboozadoo15
Apr 5th, 2004, 10:32 PM
another idiot!

Steffi had 11 slams before you knew who Monica was...including THE GRAND SLAM.. something Monica never came close to achieving, hell she doesn't even have a career slam. :wavey:

You little Selestials kill me thinking Monica would have won every slam she entered from 93- on...if she'd gotten herself inshape she would have more than 9 now.
woah, you're the idiot if you don't think monica was ever close to a grand slam... wow um, she won every damn one she entered in 91, and won 3/4 and got to the final at wimbledon where she stifled her own game because of intimidation and threats... i really hope u enjoyed that win... bc that's all graf was able to be picking up when monica was ON TOP

irma
Apr 5th, 2004, 11:09 PM
woah, you're the idiot if you don't think monica was ever close to a grand slam... wow um, she won every damn one she entered in 91, and won 3/4 and got to the final at wimbledon where she stifled her own game because of intimidation and threats... i really hope u enjoyed that win... bc that's all graf was able to be picking up when monica was ON TOP
Who cares, we only celebrate wim 94 if only the winner would get full credit right?

Gallofa
Apr 5th, 2004, 11:16 PM
Who cares, we only celebrate wim 94 if only the winner would get full credit right?
Is that a dig at Conchita? :( ;)

I think plenty of the people in your list are UNDERrated, but overrated? :confused:

irma
Apr 5th, 2004, 11:24 PM
Is that a dig at Conchita? :( ;)

I think plenty of the people in your list are UNDERrated, but overrated? :confused:
no it's against the double standards and sadly Conchita is the most easy victim to use in proving that;)
she definitely deserved every title she won!

faboozadoo15
Apr 5th, 2004, 11:30 PM
Who cares, we only celebrate wim 94 if only the winner would get full credit right?
i have no idea what that has to do with my post at all.
my post was about how monica nearly won the grand slam right in the middle of steffi graf's career.
it's hard to win again on your worst surface when you don't get to play in your prime years :wavey:

and of course conchita deserves credit for winning wimbledon 94, just as steffi and arantxa deserve credit for winning slams after monica was stabbed. tennis can't stop for monica, and those players were the best during the tournament that they won. but it doesn't mean that we can't look at things and say-- gosh, monica would have been hard to beat here if she would have been able to play.

let me remind you-- she was going for FOUR straight French open's, THREE straight us opens, FOUR straight masters, and FOUR straight australian open titles.

Devin2.0
Apr 5th, 2004, 11:45 PM
Graf is on the list?
Graf was already an alltime great after september of 88 when she completed the Grand Slam. A Seles fan must have started this thread.

Devin2.0
Apr 5th, 2004, 11:45 PM
Sanchez is the most underrated in my opinion.

irma
Apr 6th, 2004, 12:03 AM
i have no idea what that has to do with my post at all.
my post was about how monica nearly won the grand slam right in the middle of steffi graf's career.
it's hard to win again on your worst surface when you don't get to play in your prime years :wavey:

and of course conchita deserves credit for winning wimbledon 94, just as steffi and arantxa deserve credit for winning slams after monica was stabbed. tennis can't stop for monica, and those players were the best during the tournament that they won. but it doesn't mean that we can't look at things and say-- gosh, monica would have been hard to beat here if she would have been able to play.

let me remind you-- she was going for FOUR straight French open's, THREE straight us opens, FOUR straight masters, and FOUR straight australian open titles.
I never claimed she wasn't the best in 93 (well I did but that's a different story. I am biased :lol: )

Thing is just that either all players after april 93 are overrated or non of them is
and attention has nothing to do with it. Otherwise it would be Cappy without a doubt. In 90 I read many articles about how it was just a question of time before she would rule the tennisworld. Monica was not even considered despite that she was just 16 that time and on her way to the top!

faboozadoo15
Apr 6th, 2004, 12:20 AM
I never claimed she wasn't the best in 93 (well I did but that's a different story. I am biased :lol: )

Thing is just that either all players after april 93 are overrated or non of them is
and attention has nothing to do with it. Otherwise it would be Cappy without a doubt. In 90 I read many articles about how it was just a question of time before she would rule the tennisworld. Monica was not even considered despite that she was just 16 that time and on her way to the top!

you're terribly wrong on how you are looking at the word "overrated" it has EVERYTHING to do with attention that you get. jennifer was very overrated when she was very young, there's no way she wasn't. she was talked about as if she was already winning slams. she may be the most overrated person in the poll. but she has three grand slams now, so people are less likely to vote for her.

but when people say conchita is overrated, that doesn't make any sense. i've never read a single article about her being the favorite to win this or that. and she won a lot, so that's why she is underrated IMO.

the thing about all players after 93-- it doesn't have to be all or none. no one is calling asv or conchita the best players of all time. they are hardle mentioned in the conversation about tennis greats. their numbers may be inflated, sure, but they are no more overrated because of it. it's how people perceive the numbers and stats and things that have happened to make someone overrated or underrated.

faboozadoo15
Apr 6th, 2004, 12:22 AM
Graf is on the list?
Graf was already an alltime great after september of 88 when she completed the Grand Slam. A Seles fan must have started this thread.
why MUST it have been a seles fan? the writers at sports illustrated certainly aren't seles fans, yet they call steffi the most overrated tennis player of all time.

Devin2.0
Apr 6th, 2004, 01:30 AM
What SI writers are u talking about?

G-Ha
Apr 6th, 2004, 01:58 AM
why MUST it have been a seles fan? the writers at sports illustrated certainly aren't seles fans, yet they call steffi the most overrated tennis player of all time.
Who is this "they" from Sports Illustrated to which you refer, may I ask? If I'm thinking of the correct article, it was one author, by the name of Frank DeFord, who is passionate in his intense dislike for Steffi Graf...he doesn't even attempt to hide his bias. His editorial piece about Steffi being overrated was not the first, nor the last, time he attempted to pick her apart (emphasis on the attempted). He may not be a "Monica fan" per se (although, most would label him such), but he definitely is very anti-Steffi.

faboozadoo15
Apr 6th, 2004, 02:19 AM
i'm speaking of the "Overrated/Underrated" issue form maybe a few years ago, August 2001, and this article was by Jeff Pearlman.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/cover/2001/rating_game/

this doesn't have the article though... which is kinda sucky. i'll try to find it.

Mikey
Apr 6th, 2004, 02:54 AM
I have no idea if anyone's said it because I refuse to wade through 3 pages of this to find out, but the answer is for sure Chris O'Neil, the only unseeded player to ever win a grand slam to win the 1978 Australian Open and then peaking at a career high number 67. There is also no record of her winning another title.

- L i n a -
Apr 6th, 2004, 03:51 AM
I have no idea if anyone's said it because I refuse to wade through 3 pages of this to find out, but the answer is for sure Chris O'Neil, the only unseeded player to ever win a grand slam to win the 1978 Australian Open and then peaking at a career high number 67. There is also no record of her winning another title.
I mentioned all crappy Aussies who won when the draw was 90% Aussies. :p

slice
Apr 6th, 2004, 03:57 AM
henin is definately overrated... yeh she deserved to win the titles but she played weak competition in the final and only beat serena once... where she blatantly cheated in the SF.

barmaid
Apr 6th, 2004, 04:26 AM
[QUOTE=sartrista7]'Overrated' isn't the same as 'least good'. No one rates Majoli - if anything, she's underrated, as she's seen as simply a one hit wonder even though she was a solid top 10 player before RG '97.

Good assessment!!

barmaid:wavey:

irma
Apr 6th, 2004, 06:35 AM
i'm speaking of the "Overrated/Underrated" issue form maybe a few years ago, August 2001, and this article was by Jeff Pearlman.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/cover/2001/rating_game/

this doesn't have the article though... which is kinda sucky. i'll try to find it.
The choice of Steffi was still made by Frank Deford. It's standing below the page
The man who claimed people from Europe are not worthy anyway. lately he was nicer about Steffi. Of course now she has brought proud americans to this world in Jaden and Jaz;)

Nikola
Apr 6th, 2004, 06:44 AM
:-))

irma
Apr 6th, 2004, 07:47 AM
you're terribly wrong on how you are looking at the word "overrated" it has EVERYTHING to do with attention that you get. jennifer was very overrated when she was very young, there's no way she wasn't. she was talked about as if she was already winning slams. she may be the most overrated person in the poll. but she has three grand slams now, so people are less likely to vote for her.

but when people say conchita is overrated, that doesn't make any sense. i've never read a single article about her being the favorite to win this or that. and she won a lot, so that's why she is underrated IMO.

the thing about all players after 93-- it doesn't have to be all or none. no one is calling asv or conchita the best players of all time. they are hardle mentioned in the conversation about tennis greats. their numbers may be inflated, sure, but they are no more overrated because of it. it's how people perceive the numbers and stats and things that have happened to make someone overrated or underrated.so Cappy is not overrated because she has 3 three slams. Now I get it. It's not that Steffi of course can tip to that. I mean 14 titles and 3 slams. The idea that such a sucking player could have such numbers even less having them in one season :eek:

but the fact that you claim Conchita and ASV are not overrated because they are not mentioned amoung the greatest.
When you have two players and together they have worse stats then 1 individual: Even when you stop counting that players record in the middle of her career because something happened that changed tennishistory. Of course that also had influence on the other two but we are nice and take their overall stats. Just to get a good picture!

Then maybe it might be that the individual player was just a little better then the other two? and that's why she is named amoung the greatest and the others are not?

mmmm interesting theory!

faboozadoo15
Apr 7th, 2004, 09:40 PM
so Cappy is not overrated because she has 3 three slams. Now I get it. It's not that Steffi of course can tip to that. I mean 14 titles and 3 slams. The idea that such a sucking player could have such numbers even less having them in one season :eek:

but the fact that you claim Conchita and ASV are not overrated because they are not mentioned amoung the greatest.
When you have two players and together they have worse stats then 1 individual: Even when you stop counting that players record in the middle of her career because something happened that changed tennishistory. Of course that also had influence on the other two but we are nice and take their overall stats. Just to get a good picture!

Then maybe it might be that the individual player was just a little better then the other two? and that's why she is named amoung the greatest and the others are not?

mmmm interesting theory!
well in a way, capriati turned out to be "wroth the hype" a 3 time gs champ and #1 player. no one's calling her the best.
nearly the same thing with conchita and asv-- they are actually quite underrated.

steffi has won more than all those 3 put together and is called the greatest, a name that makes her overrated. she's not the most overrated person in the poll, but she's still overrated.

fan911
Apr 7th, 2004, 09:53 PM
About Majoli, I remember in the past that I've discussed her with other fans, and basically the thing was who's greater someone like Mary Joe Fernandez or Iva Majoli. And despite Mary Joe having more slam finals and a bigger career overall, people said that the fact that Iva is a grandslam champion makes her bigger. So she can also be overrated by some others.

DA FOREHAND
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:00 PM
well in a way, capriati turned out to be "wroth the hype" a 3 time gs champ and #1 player. no one's calling her the best.
nearly the same thing with conchita and asv-- they are actually quite underrated.

steffi has won more than all those 3 put together and is called the greatest, a name that makes her overrated. she's not the most overrated person in the poll, but she's still overrated.
You're an idiot...would you like all the sports writers to put mention Monica when they speak of greatest ever? Sorry but that just doesn't happen...You get three choices...all of them great....M.Court, Martina Navratilova, Chris Evrt, and STEFFI GRAF! get over it already. Each of the aforementioned players also have a career Grand Slam, and two of them have actually won the Grand Slam....all before the year of our Lord 1993 :wavey:

irma
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:12 PM
well in a way, capriati turned out to be "wroth the hype" a 3 time gs champ and #1 player. no one's calling her the best.
nearly the same thing with conchita and asv-- they are actually quite underrated.

steffi has won more than all those 3 put together and is called the greatest, a name that makes her overrated. she's not the most overrated person in the poll, but she's still overrated.
so what do you want?
that Steffi is named in the same breath as the other three despite the fact that she had a better career then all three together? :lol:
and still with all three together and count Steffi's restant results then she would still be solid on top

but dream sweet :wavey:

faboozadoo15
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:13 PM
wow, you called me an idiot... and you can't count.

faboozadoo15
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:16 PM
so what do you want?
that Steffi is named in the same breath as the other three despite the fact that she had a better career then all three together? :lol:
and still with all three together and count Steffi's restant results then she would still be solid on top

but dream sweet :wavey:
you can mention steffi as one of the great FOUR,
but calling her the greatest is overrating her.
im not saying she's the most overrated of all time, but she is overrated whenever someone calls her the greatest of all time. it's that simple. those words are far bigger than she is.

DA FOREHAND
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:22 PM
you can mention steffi as one of the great FOUR,
but calling her the greatest is overrating her.
im not saying she's the most overrated of all time, but she is overrated whenever someone calls her the greatest of all time. it's that simple. those words are far bigger than she is.
Add petty to idiot.

Just as you think Monica's shit smells like Roses, there are people out there who think Steffi is the greatest ever....BJK for example.

DeDe4925
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:24 PM
So by that logic Justine is overrated because she won the last two GS when Serena wasn't there. I mean really...
Well, I was going to say the same thing. If that's the measuring stick, where's Justine?

faboozadoo15
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:28 PM
Add petty to idiot.

Just as you think Monica's shit smells like Roses, there are people out there who think Steffi is the greatest ever....BJK for example.
wow, add demented to "can't count for shit" to your list then
and there are also people who say that steffi probably would never have come close to her grand slam total if monica hadn't been stabbed, one of them is BJK, but i guess that doesn't really matter. because as long as you win the most it doesn't matter who the wins are over or to what extremes had to be gone through to get you back to the top...

DeDe4925
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:29 PM
How exactly is Iva Majoli overrated? She is rarely mentioned nowadays.
And we can call every GS champion overrated.
Steffi was already explained.
Monica? Steffi was struggling, Martina too old.
Arantxa? Monica wasn't playing.
Hingis? Just filling the gap between Steffi and big hitters.
Davenport? The sisters weren't ready yet.
Venus and Serena? No real competition.
Justine? The sisters were injured.

So, as you can see people, they are all overrated and don't deserve to be talked about.
How can the sisters be overrated if there was no real competition? :scratch: It's not that everyone was so bad, it's that they were that good. :rolleyes:

faboozadoo15
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:30 PM
Well, I was going to say the same thing. If that's the measuring stick, where's Justine?
justine could be mentioned as overrated. but serena injured herself and she didn't want to compete if she couldn't compete well. by that stick, justine deserves the title, unless serena could have shocked herself and played her best tennis.

but monica being removed from the game, being stabbed by a derranged fan of the opposition, is entirely different than someone injuring their knee and rendering themself unable to compete.

DA FOREHAND
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:32 PM
[QUOTE=faboozadoo15]wow, add demented to "can't count for shit" to your list then
and there are also people who say that steffi probably would never have come close to her grand slam total if monica hadn't been stabbed, one of them is BJK, but i guess that doesn't really matter. because as long as you win the most it doesn't matter who the wins are over or to what extremes had to be gone through to get you back to the top...[/QUOTE

Steffi could have ended her career in April of 93 and still be considered among the greatest ever. 11 Slams including the Golden Slam solidified that... :worship: :worship: :worship:

Monica's abscence didn't make her great, but had Monica not been cruelly snatched from the game both of them would have been better players in the end.

irma
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:33 PM
you can mention steffi as one of the great FOUR,
but calling her the greatest is overrating her.
im not saying she's the most overrated of all time, but she is overrated whenever someone calls her the greatest of all time. it's that simple. those words are far bigger than she is.

First I can call Steffi the greatest everytime I want. Kart names Sabatini the greatest too and do we bash him for that? (well not a good choice, because of course we do :p ;))

Where do you rate Steffi somewhere on 20? behind Conchi the great (I will stop now ;))

DeDe4925
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:35 PM
subconsciously in your mind, to make a comparison like that, you must equate someone being stabbed to 2 girls who are injured... and that's not fair.
injuries occur because of a lack of fitness/training, whatever. they are your fault. justine was the person who was not injured, played well and won.

it's different if the person who is dominating is stabbed in the back, and then steffi takes home the trophies after that. monica didn't injur herself.
You must be insane. Not all injuries occur because of lack of fitness/training. You can be Wonderwoman being 100% fit and turn an ankle so bad you tear muscle or fall down and break something or tear something or twist something, etc. No amount of training is going to prevent injuries 100%. In 2002 Justine was full of colds, flu and cold sores. Was that from a lack of fitness and training? I sure hope Ms. Justine (super fit) H-H doesn't get injured this season. Then I guess you'd have to eat those stupid words. :rolleyes:

DeDe4925
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:39 PM
justine could be mentioned as overrated. but serena injured herself and she didn't want to compete if she couldn't compete well. by that stick, justine deserves the title, unless serena could have shocked herself and played her best tennis.

but monica being removed from the game, being stabbed by a derranged fan of the opposition, is entirely different than someone injuring their knee and rendering themself unable to compete.
You make it seem like Serena injured herself on purpose. :lol: She didn't injure herself. She got injured and required surgery to repair it.

I didn't say Justine didn't deserve the title, but if you're going to say Steffi only won because Monica (her biggest competition and threat) was not present, regardless of the circumstances, than the same has to be said about Justine. That's my only point.

DeDe4925
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:43 PM
like spontaneously... all of a sudden, you're sitting there and poof it happens???
not for tennis players, i wouldn't imagine. like a footwork error during a point that causes a knee/ankle injury-- it's unfortunate, but it's your fault.
falling down the stairs-- probably your fault
i can't think of an injury that just "happens" other than perhaps an illness..
OMG!!! A person would have to be perfect in order to play a sport and not become injured at one point or another because of wear and tear on the feet, knees, joints, etc. It comes with the territory. People are not machines. I totally disagree with your black and white assessment of injuries. It's narrow-minded. Have you ever played a sport?

DeDe4925
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:47 PM
i really don't get it-- conchita is a multiple grand slam champ, and in her career, as far as i've noticed, she's hardly had any attention at all. how can someone who is so constantly overlooked be overrated???

steffi is easily overrated when people call her "the greatest of all time" some agree with that assessment, many don't. to you, if she is in fact the greatest, then sure, she isn't overrated. but to everyone who cringes whenever they hear someone make the mistake of calling steffi the "greatest" she is overrated. and that's a whole lot of people.
So, if a person's opinion is different from yours, it's a mistake? :confused:

DeDe4925
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:51 PM
No one is over-rated. All Slam Champions were top-10 players, which means that they had been playing well enough. Even one Slam Wonders are not over rated. What if Anastasia Myskina hops out and wins a Grand Slam? I doubt that anybody will be calling her over rated.
I would. :lol:

DeDe4925
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:55 PM
woah, you're the idiot if you don't think monica was ever close to a grand slam... wow um, she won every damn one she entered in 91, and won 3/4 and got to the final at wimbledon where she stifled her own game because of intimidation and threats... i really hope u enjoyed that win... bc that's all graf was able to be picking up when monica was ON TOP
Close but no cigar :lol:

DA FOREHAND
Apr 7th, 2004, 10:57 PM
"Originally Posted by faboozadoo15
like spontaneously... all of a sudden, you're sitting there and poof it happens???
not for tennis players, i wouldn't imagine. like a footwork error during a point that causes a knee/ankle injury-- it's unfortunate, but it's your fault.
falling down the stairs-- probably your fault
i can't think of an injury that just "happens" other than perhaps an illness"

Do you play tennis? If you do then you know it's very demanding on your joints...All the quick starts stops, changing of direction......you don't think that can cause wear and tear, and eventually an injury? Even machines break...who's fault is that?

Monica has hurt her shoulder, and how many times has she hurt her foot/feet? Silly girl you'd think she'd have learned to walk on air by now.

fan911
Apr 7th, 2004, 11:54 PM
Close but no cigar :lol:

Monica's best chances to win the grandslam were 1993 and 1994, but a Steffi fan denied her that. The 1993 AO showed how Monica was improving her serve, she even volleyed several times, and mentally she was unbeatable. In 1993 and 1994, Steffi struggled to beat the likes of Fernandez, Novotna, Arantxa in slam finals, and the level of play was PATHETIC. Monica would have been the favorite everywhere. In 1994, even Arantxa won 2 slams. :rolleyes: 1993 & 1994 were the MONICA YEARS.

Stab Steffi in 1988 after the Australian, and she would have never won the grandslam either. Get a life.

DA FOREHAND
Apr 8th, 2004, 12:04 AM
LOL

Monica went yachting w/the Donald during 91's Wimbledon

DA FOREHAND
Apr 8th, 2004, 12:07 AM
How many full seasons of play did Monica go losing fewer than five matches?

I get it now...you Selestials are mad because Monica was never overrated by the experts...

Monica Seles is one of the top ten greatest players of all time! Hope that settles things.

Alan
Apr 8th, 2004, 12:12 AM
Steffi is on this list because most of her grandslams came either when Navratilova was too old, or after Monica's stabbing. So yeah she has slams, but overall she's overrated.

that sounded absolutely stupid :rolleyes:

faboozadoo15
Apr 8th, 2004, 01:13 AM
[QUOTE=faboozadoo15]wow, add demented to "can't count for shit" to your list then
and there are also people who say that steffi probably would never have come close to her grand slam total if monica hadn't been stabbed, one of them is BJK, but i guess that doesn't really matter. because as long as you win the most it doesn't matter who the wins are over or to what extremes had to be gone through to get you back to the top...[/QUOTE

Steffi could have ended her career in April of 93 and still be considered among the greatest ever. 11 Slams including the Golden Slam solidified that... :worship: :worship: :worship:

Monica's abscence didn't make her great, but had Monica not been cruelly snatched from the game both of them would have been better players in the end.
steffi would have maybe been a better player by having monica around (because she would have been forced to seriously improve), but there's no way you can say she would have won as much as she did with monica absent.

faboozadoo15
Apr 8th, 2004, 01:17 AM
First I can call Steffi the greatest everytime I want. Kart names Sabatini the greatest too and do we bash him for that? (well not a good choice, because of course we do :p ;))

Where do you rate Steffi somewhere on 20? behind Conchi the great (I will stop now ;))
sure you can, but you are overrating her ;) just as kart seriously overrates gaby.

imo, steffi is in the top 3, 4, or 5 players of all time. almost anyway you look at her career she's higher on the list than monica, unless you think your top 3 years (which was all monica barely got) are the most important thing. so i'm not downgrading steffi for the sake of moving monica up.

faboozadoo15
Apr 8th, 2004, 01:18 AM
Close but no cigar :lol:
well if you want to laugh about monica being stabbed and taken out of the game, it's on your conscience. there's no other way to respond to this type of idiotic post.

faboozadoo15
Apr 8th, 2004, 01:24 AM
"Originally Posted by faboozadoo15
like spontaneously... all of a sudden, you're sitting there and poof it happens???
not for tennis players, i wouldn't imagine. like a footwork error during a point that causes a knee/ankle injury-- it's unfortunate, but it's your fault.
falling down the stairs-- probably your fault
i can't think of an injury that just "happens" other than perhaps an illness"

Do you play tennis? If you do then you know it's very demanding on your joints...All the quick starts stops, changing of direction......you don't think that can cause wear and tear, and eventually an injury? Even machines break...who's fault is that?

Monica has hurt her shoulder, and how many times has she hurt her foot/feet? Silly girl you'd think she'd have learned to walk on air by now.
yes i play tennis. and when i turn my ankle, it's my fault. also, if wear and tear affects my body more than my opposition it means i'm playing the game wrong or im doing the wrong things off court. which would make it my fault.
if it would prevent me from playing when my opponent plays the same game day in day out and plays a similar schedule, then he/shes doing more right than me.

i already posted about monica's injuries. and they are all her fault, with strong exception to the stabbing.

just because i can say "it's their fault that they are injured" doesn't mean i don't have sympathy or hope they will get better. it's not cold hearted at all. whenever i was injured, i blamed myself for a footwork error that i needed to correct, going for to too much on too many serves, wearing my arm/shoulder out.

it's different when you're fitter than ever and some madman stabs you in the back during a changeover.

faboozadoo15
Apr 8th, 2004, 01:26 AM
How many full seasons of play did Monica go losing fewer than five matches?

I get it now...you Selestials are mad because Monica was never overrated by the experts...

Monica Seles is one of the top ten greatest players of all time! Hope that settles things.
wow-- where were you? monica was constantly overrated by experts. most people wanted to see her lose, just like watching the williams sisters today, but everyone knew who was the best. thx anyway :wavey:

how many seasons did monica even COMPETE in as a pro before bitchslapping graf from the #1 position? :tape: and what did it take for her to lose it a few years later?
yep, just as i suspected.

faboozadoo15
Apr 8th, 2004, 01:29 AM
LOL

Monica went yachting w/the Donald during 91's Wimbledon
o really? u got pics?

she had shinsplints-- you really think a poor yugoslavian girl her second full year on tour is gonna not play wimbledon after winning the first 2 legs of the slam...

you're a victim of rumors that were spread because she didn't hold a press conference to inform as to why she wasn't going to be at wimbledon.

Joana
Apr 8th, 2004, 10:46 AM
How can the sisters be overrated if there was no real competition? :scratch: It's not that everyone was so bad, it's that they were that good. :rolleyes:
And of course, I was being serious when I wrote this. :rolleyes:

irma
Apr 8th, 2004, 12:27 PM
sure you can, but you are overrating her ;) just as kart seriously overrates gaby.

imo, steffi is in the top 3, 4, or 5 players of all time. almost anyway you look at her career she's higher on the list than monica, unless you think your top 3 years (which was all monica barely got) are the most important thing. so i'm not downgrading steffi for the sake of moving monica up.
Of course I overrate Steffi. Do you know how many hours I spend rooting for her?. I had highschool exams and all I could think was oh I need to be finished in two hours because Steffi has to play at 11:00 (french open was on)
and I am still talking about her years after retirement :lol:
You can't overrate more then that;)

DA FOREHAND
Apr 8th, 2004, 02:29 PM
steffi would have maybe been a better player by having monica around (because she would have been forced to seriously improve), but there's no way you can say she would have won as much as she did with monica absent.
I never said that...and conversely there's no way you could say Monica would have won more had she not been stabbed.

williamsfan
Apr 8th, 2004, 03:22 PM
I voted for majoli but I want to change it to Graf. She really didn't have the competition as we do today.

Just_Love
Apr 8th, 2004, 03:46 PM
By overated, i guess you mean the media makes it more than what it really means, Jen cant be it coz she was never an interest for the news media since she turned 18, and no one really cared much about Conchita and Iva, coz they were expected to do more than what they have done. Jana and Gabriela did what they were expected. The only players i think is Steffi Graf and the Serena before 03 Charleston final.

fan911
Apr 8th, 2004, 04:07 PM
I never said that...and conversely there's no way you could say Monica would have won more had she not been stabbed.

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight... :rolleyes:

And I guess if Steffi was stabbed in 1988 by a Navratilova fan, she would still have won 22 slams including the golden slam, and Navratilova would have not added more slams... :rolleyes:

Or what about an Evert fan stabbing Navratilova at her peak, I bet Evert wouldn't have surpassed Navratilova either... :rolleyes: Evert would have had at least 30 slams without Navratilova, and in fact I think that Steffi's 22 slams are PATHETIC since she should have won even more without the #1 player around. :rolleyes:

DA FOREHAND
Apr 8th, 2004, 04:24 PM
riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight... :rolleyes:

And I guess if Steffi was stabbed in 1988 by a Navratilova fan, she would still have won 22 slams including the golden slam, and Navratilova would have not added more slams... :rolleyes:

Or what about an Evert fan stabbing Navratilova at her peak, I bet Evert wouldn't have surpassed Navratilova either... :rolleyes: Evert would have had at least 30 slams without Navratilova, and in fact I think that Steffi's 22 slams are PATHETIC since she should have won even more without the #1 player around. :rolleyes:
That's all you can do is guess, Steffi wasn't stabbed, Martina wasn't stabbed, Monica was.

Steffi has 22 slam wins including the Golden Slam(pre-stabbing), Martina has 18 Evert has 18, Seles has 9.

Hope that makes things clearer for you ..

Huber 0 slams :confused:

Beat
Apr 8th, 2004, 04:51 PM
'Overrated' isn't the same as 'least good'. No one rates Majoli - if anything, she's underrated, as she's seen as simply a one hit wonder even though she was a solid top 10 player before RG '97.


exactly - i think the poll asks the wrong question.

morbidangle
Apr 8th, 2004, 07:41 PM
All I have to say is...




STEFFI IS THE GREATEST!:worship:

DeDe4925
Apr 8th, 2004, 08:01 PM
Monica's best chances to win the grandslam were 1993 and 1994, but a Steffi fan denied her that. The 1993 AO showed how Monica was improving her serve, she even volleyed several times, and mentally she was unbeatable. In 1993 and 1994, Steffi struggled to beat the likes of Fernandez, Novotna, Arantxa in slam finals, and the level of play was PATHETIC. Monica would have been the favorite everywhere. In 1994, even Arantxa won 2 slams. :rolleyes: 1993 & 1994 were the MONICA YEARS.

Stab Steffi in 1988 after the Australian, and she would have never won the grandslam either. Get a life.
Hey, I wasn't laughing at the fact that Monica got stabbed. I like Monica. Always have. But, the fact of the matter is still it's a coulda, woulda, shoulda. But for the stabbing, Monica may have won a grand slam. It's an unknown. It's not for sure. What I was laughing at was that faboo was saying that Monica was close, which is not the same as she did it. We will never know. Maybe she would have, maybe not. It's not a given that she would have. Obviously, it was not in God's plan for her. So, you get a life.

DeDe4925
Apr 8th, 2004, 08:08 PM
yes i play tennis. and when i turn my ankle, it's my fault. also, if wear and tear affects my body more than my opposition it means i'm playing the game wrong or im doing the wrong things off court. which would make it my fault.
if it would prevent me from playing when my opponent plays the same game day in day out and plays a similar schedule, then he/shes doing more right than me.


That doesn't make any sense. :confused:

Kart
Apr 9th, 2004, 03:37 AM
For the record, I don't overrate Gaby ... it's you guys that underrate her :p :kiss:.

Close your eyes, see her there with the halo over her head in her true form :angel:, share my vision :banana:.

<-------------------- Alternatively, look left to see her being properly acknowledged by some of the other all time greats :worship:.

BTW :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash: for the other four people who voted for her since my last post in here :mad: ... be glad this isn't a public poll :armed:.

fan911
Apr 9th, 2004, 02:30 PM
DeMond wrote: Hey, I wasn't laughing at the fact that Monica got stabbed. I like Monica. Always have. But, the fact of the matter is still it's a coulda, woulda, shoulda. But for the stabbing, Monica may have won a grand slam. It's an unknown. It's not for sure. What I was laughing at was that faboo was saying that Monica was close, which is not the same as she did it. We will never know. Maybe she would have, maybe not. It's not a given that she would have. Obviously, it was not in God's plan for her. So, you get a life.

So if a Navratilova fan stabbed Steffi in April of 1988, would Steffi have won the golden grandslam that year? Would she have won 22 slams? Would she have spent as many weeks at no.1? :rolleyes: If you say yes, then you are retarded. The bottom line is all your "could've should've, maybe maybe not" are bullshit. Sure we don't know EXACTLY what would have happened, but we DO know that Monica would have won several more slams and Steffi less. And we would know that if Steffi or Navratilova were stabbed at their prime, that they would have less slams and Evert & Monica would have benefited. Stab Steffi in April 1988 and she would have not won the golden slam.

CrowKnee
Apr 9th, 2004, 03:35 PM
So if a Navratilova fan stabbed Steffi in April of 1988, would Steffi have won the golden grandslam that year? Would she have won 22 slams? Would she have spent as many weeks at no.1? :rolleyes: If you say yes, then you are retarded. The bottom line is all your "could've should've, maybe maybe not" are bullshit. Sure we don't know EXACTLY what would have happened, but we DO know that Monica would have won several more slams and Steffi less. And we would know that if Steffi or Navratilova were stabbed at their prime, that they would have less slams and Evert & Monica would have benefited. Stab Steffi in April 1988 and she would have not won the golden slam.
If Steffi planned on returning from such an incident, I don't think she'd take 2 1/2 years off, nor would she comeback out of shape. She might have won the Grand Slam in 89, and or the Golden Slam in 92. Who knows.