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View Full Version : Poor Michell Kwon, I am heart broken...


Cam'ron Giles
Feb 22nd, 2002, 04:47 AM
Oh god, not again. Hang tough girl. :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:

Dawn Marie
Feb 22nd, 2002, 04:52 AM
Yes but I thought Irina's marks for presentation were high.. I thought Michelle was better in that area.

Damn shame USA sucks!! Cheated Michelle out of a GOLD 4 years ago. Call it what you will but The fact that she is Chinese plays a huge part imho. USA gave her low marks for presentation.. assholes.

Damn shame the best sketer on the planet does not have a GOLD medal. Damn this world!! DAMN DAMN DAMNIT!! ALL to hell!!:sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:

Jordan.
Feb 22nd, 2002, 04:52 AM
OMG,Its ok Michelle!You did real good!Congratulations Sarah Hughes!You are such a sweetie!And the Russian girl too!

Miranda
Feb 22nd, 2002, 04:54 AM
:sad: :sad: have you people watched it live? Who actually skated the best?

Dawn Marie
Feb 22nd, 2002, 04:54 AM
By the way Freethinker her last name is spelled with an "A", as In KWAN:)

from a huritn' fan....

Jordan.
Feb 22nd, 2002, 04:55 AM
They were all very good!But Sarah was wonderful.Michelle fell during a spin thing.

Lola
Feb 22nd, 2002, 04:55 AM
I am soo sorry for Mr. Carol, Kwan's former trainer.

Scotso
Feb 22nd, 2002, 04:55 AM
Miranda.... Sarah skated the best and -won- the gold medal. Sarah was perfect.

wongqks
Feb 22nd, 2002, 04:56 AM
I feel for Michelle, arguably the best skate in figure skating history and still just one more achievement and she is define as the best. Again beaten by a younger compatriot. Having said that she look really tense today, and it did not help her at allthat fall is heartbreaking. although I have to say Irina was very good as well, but I think Sarah did better todya so congrat to her.

Miranda
Feb 22nd, 2002, 05:01 AM
I don't know about skating but since many posters said Kwan is the best ever but then why she got beaten by Irina in 6 of 8 meetings and didn't perform so well in Olympics?

has she cried in the ceremony :sad:

Randy H
Feb 22nd, 2002, 05:03 AM
Well, feel bad for Michelle and Irina as I like both...But I must say that Sarah was the most deserving of them, she had a fantastic skate and was the best.

Scotso
Feb 22nd, 2002, 05:05 AM
I don't know why everyone says Kwan is the best. Of the last 6 skaters, her program was the easiest. She really didn't deserve the gold medal and in my opinion, Sasha should have been on the podium in stead of her. But oh well. I'm happy Sarah won.

Jarrett
Feb 22nd, 2002, 05:12 AM
Anyways... I really doubt anyone was saying that MK was the best tonight. I for one don't think so. But when I think of the best in figure skating, most people think Michelle Kwan. OH well, you tried your best Michelle. Don't give up and complete the collection in 2006.

Dawn Marie
Feb 22nd, 2002, 05:19 AM
I know this is in the past, but Michelle really won GOLD in the last Olympics.. and I guess all my hurt and anger is going back to her scores of last year and that she should have already won the GOLD. She has no business going thru another Olympics .. screw it!

Michelle your the best skater on the entire planet and I will pay top dollar to see you skate!! Your the best.. but sadly skating is more about physics and jumping then passion and presence on the ice.:)

harloo
Feb 22nd, 2002, 05:44 AM
Thanks Dawn, that's all I'm trying to say also. They cheated her out of gold 4 years ago. She is the most accomplished skater in the world, and they gave it to tara. It could of wen't either way, but they said tara had a big smile. I don't buy it at all!!!! However, the establisment gets mad when tara goes pro at such a young age. I just feel this was Michelle's last chance, she won't be able to compete with the (little girls) in 2006. She won't be able to do a octagon quad.

Dawn Marie
Feb 22nd, 2002, 06:08 AM
harloo imho those folks 4 years ago liked Tara's all around performance.. AND I AM BEING SO SARCASTIC here. She had the allaround look. Face it.. If Michelle was a white gal GOLD would of been hers. That is my realistic opinion and I will always stick to it.:)

But ironic enough Tara went Pro on their asses!

Oh well Michelle should just turn pro and skate with no stress. I want to see her skate on the ice. I will pay top dollar to see her skate and ONLY her skate!!:)

Greenout
Feb 22nd, 2002, 06:28 AM
Dawn Marie,

You may have a point here. Who's the
most gracious, classy American skater
in the past 15 years?? It's Kristie Yamaguchi;
yet nobody talks about her.

I didn't see skating due to an Olympics
black out here in S'pore; but from the
news clips I seen- MK did look a bit slower
than previous years. If she was robbed
of a medal it was 4 years ago against
the Tara- who I always felt won because
she was the "white" skater of the two.

If MK stumbled than well... you can't go
thru that whole "undeducting points" thing
again, can you? My question is why does
the American judge give MK low makes for
artistic presentation?? Huh? I read alot
of stuff on the New York Times web forum
that MK isn't very popular with the American
Skating organizations and it was doubtful
that she could ever win a gold because of
the slight from her own countrymen.


hmmm.

harloo
Feb 22nd, 2002, 06:33 AM
So true Dawn, I will go and see her for top dollar. She is so elegant and beautiful on the ice. It's such a shame that happened back then, and little tara suprised them and jumped ship.

Well, I say Michelle should just let this go and finish her education. Maybe, she can do an exhibition every once in a while. As far as the future, she won't be able to do those darn jumps so she should just enjoy her life and focus on something else.

silvercharm
Feb 22nd, 2002, 06:35 AM
dm--Kwan cheated out of a gold 4 years ago? did you watch the same Tara performance i did? Tara imo is a better skater than Michelle in every way and would have won gold again in easy fashion this year

Crazy Canuck
Feb 22nd, 2002, 06:42 AM
In all due respect - Michelle has been marked higher before, even when her performance didn't really merit it.

You need to look no further than the short program. Irina had the better program, and didn't win it. Michelle had an error that required deductions, that weren't taken.

How can you say she was cheated, now?

And while Tara bugged the heck out of me - to say she didn't earn that Gold is a terribly injustice.

Now I have a hard tiem feeling sorry for 6 time national champion, 4 time World champion, multi millionaire Kwan.

Appologies - it'd have been nice for her to win - but life goes on, and I'm sure she knows that too.

As for Kwan losing, cause Tara was white? What do you have to back that up? I have no problem admitting when race is a factor - but I fail to see how it was in 1998.

harloo
Feb 22nd, 2002, 06:43 AM
sorry silvercharm, I saw the perfomance and as a matter of fact I have it on tape. The judges said that tara's smile was bigger, and it's a matter of interpretation. So you have your opinion, and I have mine's. Good for you!;)

Some points you make a valid Becca, however I don't agree with Michelle hasn't earned some of her marks. Look at the other skater artistry and compare them with Michelle's and their is second to none. Also, I don't care what you say something was up in 1998 whether you wan't to believe it or not is up to you.

silvercharm
Feb 22nd, 2002, 06:52 AM
...and if Lu Chen came back she would have blitz them all!

Adrian
Feb 22nd, 2002, 06:54 AM
Even if Kwan hadn't fell, she was no match for Sarah

silvercharm
Feb 22nd, 2002, 06:56 AM
i know Kwan has her fans but imo she ranks below Lu Chen, Tara Lipinski, Katia Gordeeva, and Kristy (and the young Oksana) in artistic ability--of course I'm no expert but know what I like...

harloo
Feb 22nd, 2002, 06:56 AM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: whatever ya say!!;)

silvercharm
Feb 22nd, 2002, 06:57 AM
adrian--tonight that was true imo...Sarah was brilliant

silvercharm
Feb 22nd, 2002, 06:58 AM
...and as far as Lu Chen goes:hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

harloo
Feb 22nd, 2002, 07:03 AM
Oh really silvercharm, Michelle ranks lower than Lu Chen. :rolleyes: O.k.......um? no explanation needed. :confused: :rolleyes:

silvercharm
Feb 22nd, 2002, 07:04 AM
harloo...my mind goes where my heart goes;)

harloo
Feb 22nd, 2002, 07:17 AM
Oh really silvercharm. um.........o.k whatever ya say. :D :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Crazy Canuck
Feb 22nd, 2002, 07:39 AM
"Some points you make a valid Becca, however I don't agree with Michelle hasn't earned some of her marks. Look at the other skater artistry and compare them with Michelle's and their is second to none. Also, I don't care what you say something was up in 1998 whether you wan't to believe it or not is up to you."

I didn't say that Michelle hadn't earned her marks for presentation. I said the judges had gone easy on her techincal errors before, and not made deductions, acting as if they hadn't noticed them.

For example, in her short program - Michelle underrotated one of her jumps, and still recieved a 5.9 or two in techincal merit. Which means if she recieved the deduction for the mistake, then she would have gotten more than perfect had she not done it?:confused:
Its up to you wether you want to be in complete denial of this - but the short program provided solid evidence of the judges leaning Michelle's way, and ignoring her mistakes. The techincally superior program that was flawless - should have won. And it didn't.

btw - Michelle's artistry is second to none IN YOUR OPINION. And though I agree with you - there are some who prefer the artistic ability of other skaters, mroe than they do Michelles.

For the record - i like Michelle, and heading in to the Olympics I really wanted to see her win. So I am not coming down on her, or trying to detract from her talents whatsoever.


Regarding "something was up in 1998" - you can come up with your conspiracy theories all you like. Provide me with some evidence, and I MIGHT care.

Crazy Canuck
Feb 22nd, 2002, 07:41 AM
ahhhh-- let me elaborate on the last bit...

What was "up" in 1998 was a 15 year old by the name of Tara Lypinski.

What was "up" were her superior jumps, matched with great presentation.

if you want to create theories on why your fave lost, as opposed to just accepting that someone else was better that night -
Then thats YOUR problem.

And frankly, its being a poor sport.

Jeff
Feb 22nd, 2002, 08:14 AM
Wow, what can I say? I'm just completely disappointed right now. Along with Michelle, I have been waiting for four years to see her receive the title she deserve "Olympic Chamipion." Unfortunately, figure skating, like most events at the Olympics, which is you only get one chance. For Michelle to have to wait four years and then lose it all within a matter of one triple flip is just COMPLETELY saddening.

I must say, though, Sarah definetly deserved her medal today. She skated the best program of her entire life: layed it all out on the line. However, what makes this loss for Michelle even more disappointing, is the fact that she lost to yet another fellow American, who before winning the gold medal, was considered an up-and-comer. It's just disappointing when you know that Sarah, like Lipinski, came into these games without any particular expectations. Michelle on the other hand, who on any other given day is the best in the world, had this moment all planned out: it was hers to win or lose.

Just compeletely a bummer :sad:

Rising Sun
Feb 22nd, 2002, 10:41 AM
Silvercharm, speaking of Lu Chen, what's happened to her? :confused:

She had that certain "elegance" on the ice. :(

Experimentee
Feb 22nd, 2002, 01:50 PM
mmm Lu Chen is beautiful :hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

oh and her skating wasnt bad either

sartrista7
Feb 22nd, 2002, 02:08 PM
:sad: :sad: I don't know whether it's better or worse than Nagano - then, at least you could get angry because it was OBVIOUS that Kwan was better than Lipinski, but now... in the long program, both Slutskaya and Hughes were clearly superior to Michelle, even though neither have her grace, and it was probably Michelle's last chance. :sad: Can't argue with the result, though - Sarah Hughes was amazing, and she was just looked so shocked when she won. Also feel sorry for Irina - I'd been consoling myself with the thought that, even if Michelle fell, at least Irina would get it :sad:

AjdeNate!
Feb 22nd, 2002, 02:13 PM
Tough luck Michelle, GREAT job Sarah!

Aloysius
Feb 22nd, 2002, 03:34 PM
Let's not forget that Sarah Hughes had actually BEATEN both Irina Slutskaya and Michelle Kwan in the same competition before - Skate Canada, if I remember rightly.

I'm still sad for Michelle :sad: but I don't think she's ever been cheated out of a medal. Tara Lipinski deserved the Gold in Nagano as much as Sarah Hughes deserved the Gold in Salt Lake City. They were both amazing skates from precocious girls who both had nothing to lose and everything to gain. It was simply unfortunate for Michelle to have come up against them each time. It'll most likely be a similar scenario with Sarah Hughes and Sasha Cohen later on.

If I had been a judge, there was no way I could give Michelle a Gold after her stumble. But coming into the Long Program, I must say that I misjudged Sarah Hughes. She seemed very nervous in the Short Program. Sasha Cohen seemed more confident. Irina appeared very rigid and her presentation seemed forced. While Kwan looked a little shaky but beautiful. But as it turned out, Sarah nailed everything where others failed in the Long.

As for the Asian thing: I must note that Nagano is in Japan (an Asian country), and whether the judges were white or not, I don't think it played much of a role in the way the medals went. And as people have noted, if racism played a real part, Kristie Yamaguchi would never have been Olympic or World Champion.

Btw, I'm Asian so I hope I'm not being patronizing or anything when I say the above paragraph.

If the rasicm thing can be applied to Michelle, then I must also bring up the similar experiences of Irina Slutskaya. She has been overlooked by the judges at both the Worlds and the Olympics for Long Programs that were of equal ability to her closest competitor in those competitions (in those cases, Kwan and Hughes, respectively).

She is Russian. We could easily argue that she has been overlooked because she is Russian when the judging got close. It's not necessarily a racist thing as much as possibly a political thing. Personally, I didn't think that Irina was as graceful as either Kwan or Hughes, so Silver wasn't so bad. She had it over Kwan for sure in the technical department. But her movements looked pretentious when compared to Hughes artistically. Silver was the correct placing for her this time.

While it would be easy to find fault with the judges and their possible prejudices, I still can't fathom the idea that that sort of thing would come into play in an event that is contested in the spirit of the Olympics. At least, I hope that it isn't like that.

harloo
Feb 22nd, 2002, 03:40 PM
Sorry Becca, but did you see Michelle's marks in the short. Maybe one judge gave her a 5.9 for technical merit, but the rest were so low which is understandable. Her marks wen't up for presentation, so I just felt that Michelle got the top in the short because it evened out.

The fact remains that she lost last night to my dismay, and Sarah won which is great for her. So, just because I don't agree with ya doesn't mean I'm in denial, allright!;) BTW, you are the one with the problem calling someone a sore sport. If you can't rebut my opinion without personal attacks then you might as well not respond.

M2k
Feb 22nd, 2002, 04:30 PM
Poor Michelle...:sad: :sad: :sad: It was her's for the taking...but I guess the pressure was too much. :sad: Maybe she should stick around for another world championship(imo, 5 world golds would more than compensate for her olympic disappointments) :D

Now, I thing the whole "she lost in Nagano because she's Chinese" is pure CRAP!! C'mon this skater has made the USFA millionaires, how could they discriminated her? :confused: Plus the same Michelle has admitted that Tara deserved that gold medal(btw, this why I love kwan)


Becca ok , if i have to hear Irina was robed in the short program one more time... I'm going to SCREAMMMMMM!!!!Irina actually had more than one deduction. She flutzed (actually, of the top five only Maria had a pure Lutz:eek: :eek: ) which is .1 -.2 off the technical mark, depending on the severity. She completely skipped the last part of her footwork into the triple flip :eek: which is much bigger deduction, .1-.3 off the tech. Her last combo was of poor quality and traveled,another - .1 ....now combine this with her Artistic qualities and you got her tech scores that ranged from 5.6(??) to 5.8...
The 5.9 for Michelle was only from one judge(I know he/she needs glasses) , but most of the judges had her in the 5.6-5.7 range...At least she didn't receive a 5.5 after splatting and butchering halve of her triples
like some other skater I don't want to mention... :rolleyes:



BTW, Americans were 1,3 &4:eek: :eek: WOW!!!

Big Fat Pink Elephant
Feb 22nd, 2002, 04:56 PM
I don't think that Michelle being CHINESE has ANYTHING to do with the result. She failed the triple flip, and she had a two-footed landing in her combination.... :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: I*m so sad..... first Martina lost the OZ final.... and now this.... :sad: :sad: :sad:

SerenasMelons
Feb 22nd, 2002, 05:06 PM
Poor Michelle. All I wanted at this Olympics was for her to win Gold. :sad: :sad: :sad: I hope she goes professional now. She doesn't need the pressure of another Olympics.

Sarah definitely skated the best, but I'm never as moved by watching any skater as I am with Michelle, and I think of Figure Skating more of an art than a sport, so I think Michelle is definitley one of the best based on her artistry. Tara deserved to win in Nagano, but Michelle could've too. Tara's artistry was never up to Michelle's level.

The judging was for the most part fair IMHO. I don't see how Russia can say that judging is unfair at this olympics for the Russians. That Cross Country thing was outrageous though, but if you look at the Figure Skating Judging, the Russian judge ALWAYS puts the Russian first. Didn't he/she give Irina 5.9 for technical and artistic? The Russian judges are always biased. The American judge wasn't though. He/she could've give Kwan a lot higher marks, but didn't.

Martian Mel
Feb 22nd, 2002, 05:38 PM
Just like you said Marri first Martina loosing the Aussie Open final and now Michelle!Seems like everyone who i want to win so terribly, looses in a heartbreaking way:sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:

Well i'm glad that Martina will be back on court next week !She's the only one who can make me happy right now:kiss:

Big Fat Pink Elephant
Feb 22nd, 2002, 05:46 PM
:wavey: Mel! :)

Barrie_Dude
Feb 22nd, 2002, 08:16 PM
It is a shame! I Figure I Need To Go Out To Salt Lake And Comfort Poor Michele!

*Izzy*
Feb 22nd, 2002, 08:41 PM
:sad: Michelle....:sad:

Flappie
Feb 22nd, 2002, 09:40 PM
I still think Irina Slutskaya should have won the gold. She was the best overall.
I think the pressure on Michelle was just too much. Too bad for her! But I guess she not going to wait another 4 years!

tenn_ace
Feb 22nd, 2002, 09:43 PM
I felt for this girl when she crying on the pedestal.

she probably should get a gold medal for trying for such a long time. I hope she gets a good contract after she retires....

SerenasMelons
Feb 23rd, 2002, 03:30 AM
I just watched Michelle's performance in the Champions Gala. She was so beautiful! I started crying when I saw the tears on her face at the end of her skate. Michelle, we'll always love you.

Kart
Feb 23rd, 2002, 03:47 AM
Oh Michelle :sad:

I missed her skate but saw Irina and Hughes' skates.

Even though I love Michelle I agree that Irina was better in the short program.

However, I am beginning to wonder what is the point of having the short program when all one seems to have to do is win the free skate. I have a poor understanding of the scoring system but that seems to me to be how it works.

On a side note, Lu Chen was fantastic :) at the world championships when she won, even if she did force Surya Bonaly back to the silver :mad:

Crazy Canuck
Feb 23rd, 2002, 04:19 AM
Was that the year that Surya ripped her medal off and pouted and didn't even want to stand on the podium?

btw - I quite liked her, and wanted her to win. But she did put up a tad of fuss one year.

CanadianBoy21
Feb 23rd, 2002, 05:00 AM
Surya Bonoly is the best skater in my mind!

She just didn't win more because she was too athletic...:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:


How many women can do a back flip on the ice and still land on their two feet?!?!?!?????
Yet men are allowed to do that and not get deducted, but women are not...

And she got so ripped off of that gold medal that one year, she totally deserved it.

I loved her fiestyness, but I guess the judges didn't :sad:


Haven't heard from her in a while, anybody got news, she retire?

Crazy Canuck
Feb 23rd, 2002, 05:06 AM
I think she went pro.

I'd love to see her perform pro where she has no pressure, and no restraints on what she is allowed to do.

:)

Kart
Feb 23rd, 2002, 05:07 AM
No Becca, that was the year before I believe. The year Lu Chen deservedly won, Bonaly was remarkably calm.

Of course, she really ought to have an olympic medal to her name as well - she finished 4th in Lillehammer if I remember correctly - outskated by some rather impressive performances :(.

Actually, that Olypmics was the first time that I remember seeing a young girl named Michelle Kwan make it to the final and impress everyone by landing about seven triples ...

Kart
Feb 23rd, 2002, 05:07 AM
Oh and Bonaly's back filps were just :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

CanIGetAWhat
Feb 23rd, 2002, 05:27 AM
since we're reminiscing, i miss the midori/kristi rivalry. i didn't like midori that much because she was a jumping machine, always landing those hard triples jumps :eek: lol, i'd sometimes wish she'd fall on them to give kristi an edge :o

Crazy Canuck
Feb 23rd, 2002, 05:33 AM
Thank for the info on Surya Kart :) I always loved her name.

Canigetawhat - I miss Kristy :(

Vanity
Feb 23rd, 2002, 05:36 AM
Ahhh... I LOVE Surya Bonaly!!!
She was amazing... what an entertainer!!! She was able to do things that was out of reach for even the gold medal skaters. I always thought the judges were unfair to her.

GoSandrine
Feb 23rd, 2002, 05:40 AM
Michelle's performance to Sting's ""Fields of Gold" at the Champions Gala tonight was so beautiful and heartwrenching at the same time. :sad:

As thrilled as I am for hometown girl Sarah winning the gold medal, I'm crushed for Michelle. Hopefully she'll come to terms with her failure to win Olympic gold. She has so much to be proud of - I hope she doesn't dwell on this for too long. She's such a sweet girl who always handles herself with such dignity and class. I wish her all the best both in her professional career and her personal life.

:hearts: :kiss:

Sam L
Feb 23rd, 2002, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by GoSandrine
Michelle's performance to Sting's ""Fields of Gold" at the Champions Gala tonight was so beautiful and heartwrenching at the same time. :sad:

As thrilled as I am for hometown girl Sarah winning the gold medal, I'm crushed for Michelle. Hopefully she'll come to terms with her failure to win Olympic gold. She has so much to be proud of - I hope she doesn't dwell on this for too long. She's such a sweet girl who always handles herself with such dignity and class. I wish her all the best both in her professional career and her personal life.

:hearts: :kiss:

I second that. These last two days must been unbelievable for Michelle. I really hope she won't turn pro. She's still got a fantastic chance at Turino 2006 regardless of what everyone else says.

Come on Michelle! :kiss:

cynicole
Feb 23rd, 2002, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Kart
Of course, she [Surya Bonaly] really ought to have an olympic medal to her name as well - she finished 4th in Lillehammer if I remember correctly - outskated by some rather impressive performances :(.

Actually, that Olypmics was the first time that I remember seeing a young girl named Michelle Kwan make it to the final and impress everyone by landing about seven triples ...

:confused: Michelle Kwan didn't compete at Lillehammer, IIRC. U.S. was only allowed to send 2 skaters in 1994. :confused: Do you mean the World Championships?

Kwan was the alternate at the Olympics at Lillehammer...and a lot of attention was being made on it since there was the "threat" that they might pull Tonya Harding out of competition. I remember that eventually they stripped Harding of the National title and Kwan won it by default.

I still have mixed feelings about Tonya Harding. :( :mad:

Bonaly was awesome. Too bad they don't allow back flips in amateur competition. Was Lillehammer the one where she skated an awesome short program but then came undone in the free skate (actually, I think in every Olympics she competed in she had one awesome program and the other sucked badly)? Was it in Nagano when she realized she was out of contention and decided to "flaunt" in front of the judges? Ah, that was priceless!

Of course, I'm more of a fan of technical skaters so I'm just more inclined to like Bonaly, Ito (probably my all-time fave), Harding and Irina. Remembering how much air Midori Ito got on her jumps it's hard to imagine Sasha Cohen pulling off that quad she's aiming at.

I'm not too sad over Michelle Kwan not winning the Gold this year. I was fuming four years ago but since she didn't skate so well it's very hard to feel all that upset about it. She should be happy that she medalled, IMO!

Sarah Hughes skated the program of her life the other night. Reminded me of when Liz Manley in Calgary back in 1988. That kind of feeling: placed in 4th, home crowd cheering them on, awesome performance, winning the free skate. *sigh*

And Sarah's encore "Sept.11" skate was poignant. Very genuine compared to lots of other tributes I've seen of late.

Kart
Feb 23rd, 2002, 07:08 PM
cynicole :), I looked it up and you are right. Michelle wasn't in Lillehammer. I guess I must have been thinking of the world championships. Apologies.

Bonaly was in third place after the short prgram where Nancy Kerrigan skated her socks off. I'm glad that Oksana Baijul won the gold though, I thought her free skate was the best. I can't say I particularly cared for Kerrigan in spite of what she'd been through. Lu Chen was the one who ousted Bonaly for the bronze. Personally I was shocked because I was so sure that Bonaly was going for the gold :(.

Of course, nothing that year compared to Torvill and Dean being robbed of the gold they so deserved IMHO :(.

Nicoleke
Feb 23rd, 2002, 07:11 PM
Did you see the " Fields of gold " programm, it was very sad. The poor Michelle Kwan cried ..... :sad: .

cynicole
Feb 23rd, 2002, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by Kart
I'm glad that Oksana Baijul won the gold though, I thought her free skate was the best. I can't say I particularly cared for Kerrigan in spite of what she'd been through. Lu Chen was the one who ousted Bonaly for the bronze. Personally I was shocked because I was so sure that Bonaly was going for the gold :(.

Of course, nothing that year compared to Torvill and Dean being robbed of the gold they so deserved IMHO :(.

Agree on Baiul :) and I live in "Kerrigan Country" or at least used to until she moved elsewhere. I always found Nancy Kerrigan's skating rather "plain." Elegant and simple-looking, but boring. What I remember most about Oksana from that free skate was that she improvised and threw in a jump or two at the end. That's what won me over. And artistically, I don't think there was any comparing.

Lu Chen/Chen Lu - more of an artistic skater. I don't remember any of her programs at all. :o All I remember is that she particularly enjoyed watching Elizabeth Manley. :D

And Torvill and Dean getting the bronze rather than gold at Lillehammer was an absolute travesty. :fiery: I dunno, I get the feeling that most people really enjoyed Gritchuk and Platov's rock 'n roll free dance but I thought it was torture. I also would've rather had seen Usova and Zhulin win, if not Jayne and Chris. :( That competition stalled "innovation", IMO.

Kart
Feb 23rd, 2002, 10:30 PM
It's all coming back to me slowly. I remember Gritchuk and Platov's rock and roll skate. It was good there's no doubt.

I just felt that Torvill and Dean were absolutely flawless in their routine but I'll admit it was partly for sentimental reasons that I wanted them to win.

Apparently the reason they didn't was that one of their moves was illegal - the one where Dean lifted his arms and flipped Torvill over him. Apparently you're not allowed to lift your arms above shoulder height on any of the throws. His arms were like just above that level - IMHO I thought the whole thing was just reall petty and the judges just didn't want to see Torvill and Dean win :(. Still at least they got the bronze I suppose.

cynicole
Feb 24th, 2002, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by Kart
It's all coming back to me slowly. I remember Gritchuk and Platov's rock and roll skate. It was good there's no doubt.

...snip...

Apparently the reason they didn't was that one of their moves was illegal - the one where Dean lifted his arms and flipped Torvill over him. Apparently you're not allowed to lift your arms above shoulder height on any of the throws. His arms were like just above that level - IMHO I thought the whole thing was just reall petty and the judges just didn't want to see Torvill and Dean win :(. Still at least they got the bronze I suppose.

Well, Gritchuk and Platov were really good technical skaters. I just wasn't really moved by them. I'd break out the tapes to re-familiarize myself with all of it but my VCR just died as I was reminiscing Albertville! :(

I think there was more in Torvill and Dean's routine that got them docked. The thing was that they had run the program before a judge to make sure that what they were doing wasn't illegal. I guess that judge either didn't really pay attention or there was fix in. *sigh*

Kart
Feb 24th, 2002, 05:53 AM
I don't know if you caught the European championships that year just before the Olympics - all the top three teams skated the same routines that they did in Lillehammer.

That tournament cemented for me my belief that I have no understanding of the scoring system and never will - Torvill and Dean were ranked in second place after their routine but then somehow got moved up into first because of the position marks that the judges gave to the next team. It was all very confusing :confused: .

I guess that part of the reason why I was so sure that Torvill and Dean would win was because they had made some alterations to their routine by Lillehammer where as the others more or less skated exactly the same.

Dawn Marie
Feb 24th, 2002, 08:29 AM
I did not like Surya Bonaly at all. She lacked artictic impression imho and I think Nancy was boring. Infact Tonya actually was a much better skater than Nancy, she really didn't have to bash her legs to beat her.

Notable skaters that I adore.

Oskana Baiul
Katarina Witt
Sonya Henning
Peggy Flemming
Midori Ito
Michelle Kwan

Big Fat Pink Elephant
Feb 24th, 2002, 03:08 PM
Nice list DM! And I believe that by "Sonya Henning" you mean Sonja Henie?

cynicole
Feb 24th, 2002, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by Kart
I don't know if you caught the European championships that year just before the Olympics - all the top three teams skated the same routines that they did in Lillehammer.

That tournament cemented for me my belief that I have no understanding of the scoring system and never will - Torvill and Dean were ranked in second place after their routine but then somehow got moved up into first because of the position marks that the judges gave to the next team. It was all very confusing :confused: .


Kart -

Nah, I didn't see the European Championships. I'm not even sure if they showed it here. Back in those days, figure skating/ice dancing got really bad broadcast hours (like tennis now :rolleyes: ). It was after all the Tonya and Nancy stuff that we got good coverage (or "too much" coverage).

The scoring with Ordinals can be really confusing and I read somewhere that the ISU is considering changing that as well. Incidentally, I think the best way for Irina to have won the gold the other night would've been for Michelle to skate well to steal the 1st place ordinals that Sarah got. Irina would've been able to keep most of the 1st place votes she got due to whatever biases the judges have (rather of the rigged variety or simply because they prefer a more "Eastern Style").

Another note on Baiul: Another thing that impressed me about her was that she had that collision with that German skater Tanya Cshevshenko (I so completely botched up the spelling of her name). I think they injected her with painkillers.

Poor Tanya's long program went completely to pieces. And then Tanya had that weird rare life-threatening illness where she was just sleepy all the time. And when Nagano rolled around she got the flu (or something like it) and couldn't compete. I really, really feel so sorry for her.

Anyway, I probably should say some really good things about Michelle Kwan since I am posting this in a Michelle Kwan thread:

After Lillehammer 1994, Nancy went pro and Tonya was banned and the whole U.S. skating program depended on this 13- or 14-year-old girl named Michelle Kwan to place well in competitions so that the U.S. could send more than one girl to compete in future international events. That's a lot to ask of a young person and she singlehandedly kept the program afloat. I get the feeling that people don't often realize this. (Maybe because the U.S. had been so spoiled the few years before she came, what with Nancy, Tonya, Kristi and just slightly before that Jill, Caryn(sp?), Debbie and Rosalyn.)


Dawn Marie -
Do you also watch the other skating events (pairs, men's, ice dancing)?

I agree that Tonya at her best was much better than Nancy. The problem was that Tonya didn't have the confidence (which is probably what brought that awful knee clubbing incident in Detroit). When she was confident she was explosive and her program actually "flowed" (but really, artistically she was around the same level as Bonaly, IMO). When she wasn't confident, it was really, really sad to watch her and all her movements were extra-stiff.

You actually watched some Sonja Henie? From her movies?

I liked Witt...but I was bugged at her Carmen routine from Calgary. There was this whole section where she just seemed to act "Oh, look at me, I'm so sexy!" :rolleyes: Worked though. :p Then she filled out and wasn't so sexy anymore...but still a babe.

GoSandrine
Feb 24th, 2002, 08:42 PM
Dawn, you left out Dorothy Hamill. :sad:

M2k
Feb 25th, 2002, 09:31 PM
Dawn Marie I love Baiul :hearts: :hearts: She was such an artistic skater(ala Michelle;) ) It seems like we have excellent taste:cool:


Vivaseles, I wont say much about this topic anymore because (imo) the right person won the gold medal. But... just to clear something, Irina did flutz. Check your tape and you''ll see that it's a quick outside edge in the take off. It's not a matter of technique more than a lack of concentration for her...She has solid basics but she's no stranger to flutzing. And no, I'm not blind .Ouch!:eek: I never questioned the difficulty of her spin combo, but remember that spins are "also" judged in the quality of extension and centering(something that has been a problem with this particular combo for sometime now).


btw, Did anyone saw Sarah's reaction after winning GOLD???
:D :D :D :D YAY! Bravo Sarah ! Huges & Cohen for gold in 2006!