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GoDominiqu
Feb 21st, 2002, 06:43 PM
At the 4 x 5 km-relay. Lazutina obviously tested positve. :eek:

Gold for Germany ???

GoDominiqu
Feb 21st, 2002, 07:01 PM
Commentator siad it was too late to nominate another one.

Norway leads, Germany 2nd, Switzerland 3rd.

Nina_rus
Feb 21st, 2002, 07:08 PM
I've heard they informed them 15(!) minutes before the race!!!:fiery: That's TERRIBLE!!!!
I think the Ukrainian team didn't start either!!!

ys
Feb 21st, 2002, 07:10 PM
That's crap. :mad: Lets wait for more news to come..

ys
Feb 21st, 2002, 07:15 PM
This is unbelievable. Lazutina is the most decorated currently active skier. She won a medal during the first race of the Gamse, meaning, she was tested back then, almost two weeks ago, and apparently came clean. Enhanced level of hemoglobin? What is this?:mad:

GoDominiqu
Feb 21st, 2002, 07:16 PM
Not the failure of the organisation.
What if they had told them a day later ? Would have been the same, only that they would be more tired.

ys
Feb 21st, 2002, 07:20 PM
This is going to be by far the biggest scandal of the Games. I expect all Russian team, perhaps even hockey team including, to pull from the Games..

GoDominiqu
Feb 21st, 2002, 07:21 PM
Woohoo ! :D Evi ! Great ! Gold for Germany ! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

GoDominiqu
Feb 21st, 2002, 07:26 PM
I don't care if they are winner by default. They just gave their best, that was all they could do. Even silver with beating Norway would be a great achievement for the German team. :)

Nina_rus
Feb 21st, 2002, 07:35 PM
Well, I doubt the hockey team will pull out but it is a real shock.
I just watched the news, it's increased level of haemoglobin and the same thing happened with Ukraine. the test was taken just before the race. A press conference with the Russian team will be given in about half an hour...

Btw, Kabaeva and Chashina( gymnastics) are disqualified for a year...

GoDominiqu
Feb 21st, 2002, 07:38 PM
Nina_rus, if you are right and the test was just before the race, then there's definitely nothing wrong with the organization and with Germany's gold.

ys
Feb 21st, 2002, 07:45 PM
Russia filed an official protest. No matter if Lazutina test is wrong or right. they say that organizers violated the regulations for relay. Hopefully we will have a rerun tomorrow.

Nina_rus
Feb 21st, 2002, 07:47 PM
Kabaeva tested positive for some test during the Goodwill games and now they took her World Chmpionship gold medals and Chashina's as well.

GoDominiqu
Feb 21st, 2002, 07:50 PM
Vivalaseles, sorry, but you don't seem to know much about the sport.

If the race starts in one hour, you CAN'T just go and postpone the race an hour. The girls are preparing exactly for the minute of the start, with warming up etc. Should they just sit down there and wait an hour ? I wouldn't have asked for postponing it either, why destroy my perfect preparation just because someone else is doped ?

Nina_rus
Feb 21st, 2002, 07:51 PM
This is Serious. All the news programmes are dedicated to these scandals: Rostovtsev, Elena/anton,Koroleva( freestyle) and now this...

GoDominiqu
Feb 21st, 2002, 07:53 PM
And please, the teams are not together before the race. The other teams probably didn't even know that Russia was disqualified.

ys
Feb 21st, 2002, 07:56 PM
Postponing races for an hour is absolutely normal. They did it many times in skiing , downhill skiing, some other sports because of the weather and other issues. Plenty of precedents. OK, at least we will be less tired for a rerun because we sat out today..

Frau Antje
Feb 21st, 2002, 07:58 PM
GERMANY :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

ys
Feb 21st, 2002, 07:58 PM
Rostovtsev was tested very suddenly just before the race and they "by mistake" took several times more blood from him than it is usually taken.

ys
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:00 PM
Oh they did, VivalaSeles, and not only them. My friend who lives in Germany says that ARD commentator was openly celebrating Russian non-start.

roots
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:01 PM
If Lazutina won medals in other events here, can they strip her of her medals?

If so, Canada's Beckie Scott will have her Bronze medal in the Women's 5km free pursuit turn into Silver!

Go Beckie, first North American women to medal at the Olympics in Cross-country Skiing!

Nina_rus
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:02 PM
Luzhkov (the Moscow mayor) is in Salt Lake city and is now talking about the terrible judgement during the Russia- Czech republic match

:fiery:
The President of Russian Olympic team is doing an interview now. The test was taken 30 min before the race. Lazutina had a test before that one with the team doctors and everything was fine but the official test gave a different result they asked for another try but they refused. Plus, lazutina is now having her periods so it's a different case...

Our Federation called the President of Olympic cometee and they will have a meeting about it and may rethink the decision.

Nina_rus
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:05 PM
Koroleva was 4th in the freestyle although everyone says she was much better than the others. I didn't watch it so I can't really say..

GoDominiqu
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:05 PM
vivalaseles, yeah, I'm sure there were many thunderstorm warnings there today, so everyone was preparing for a postponement anyway ... :rolleyes:

Geez, there was perfect weather, so no prospect of postponing anything. And cross-country races are hardly ever postponed, only if it's too cold.

My god, before an Olympic race, you have to concentrate and care for yourself and not for the troubles of other teams. I really want to know in which fantasy world you live.

Fairness ? Olympic spirit ? How fair is it to start with a team where one member is doped ? Lazutina was part of team, so everyone is responsible for that.

GoDominiqu
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:09 PM
ys, just not true. No one was celebrating.

And yeah, if the teams are at the starting line and they notice Russia is not there, then they have to raise their hands and scream 'stop, the favourites are not here, we can't start' !!!??? LMAO.

Nina_rus
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:10 PM
He also said that the President of the Olympic Commettee said that the team wasn't disqualifyed but they just didn't start:confused: i din't really understand that part:confused: so the Russians will try to do everything they can...
That's all the news for now

Nina_rus
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:15 PM
Well, they didn't really talk much about it, he said that the team doctor took a test that day and everything was normal but then the officials took another test half an hour before the race on different equipment which showed a different result and they were immediately dismissed. That's it

GoDominiqu
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:16 PM
Cross-country races are rarely postponed = never, at least not all of the sudden.

And relay is a team event. If one member of the team is in bad form and the team doesn't win because of that, then the whole team is responsible for that.
If one member is doped, then the whole team is disqualified. Simple as that.

GoDominiqu
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:18 PM
So you REALLY the teams should go and ask for a postponement ???

Tell me ONE situation at ANY important event where this has happened !!!

GoDominiqu
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:22 PM
And please, there was no one going around and telling all teams that Russia is disqualified because of doping. And why should they be interested ? THEY had 4 team members willing to start the race, that's what counts for them.

ys
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:23 PM
If one member is doped, then the whole team is disqualified.

It is not necessarily true in team events.. In soccer in World Cups there were plenty of positive tests ( Maradona being the most famous one ). Team have never been DQd.

ys
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:26 PM
Lazutina is undergoing the second test now, if the second one is negative, we'll surely have a rerun. If she is positive, we might still have a rerun because they failed to give Russia enough time to replace Lazutina.

roots
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:29 PM
Here's a summary that shows Beckie Scott knew somthing was up with the Russian skier:

CBC SPORTS ONLINE - Beckie Scott, Canada's cross-country bronze medallist, is attacking Dick Pound's claim that almost all Olympians are playing fair.

Scott won a bronze medal in 2x5-kilometre pursuit. Russia skier Olga Danilova won the gold. Danilova's teammate Larissa Lazutina captured the silver.

When asked if Danilova and Lazutina were drug-free, Scott replied: "No comment."

The Canadian IOC member, and head of the World Anti Doping Agency, now wants the cross-country bronze medallist to end her rant about drug cheating at the Olympics.

In an interview with CBC Radio's Inside Track, Scott laughed off Pound's suggestion that almost all athletes in Salt Lake City are competing clean.

Dick Pound blasted Scott for, what he felt, were uninformed and extreme remarks.

"She is way out of line. There is a genuine and legitimate effort on the part of WADA to deal with these things. She should be careful about shooting off her mouth without knowing what she is talking about," he said.

Scott, who hails from Vermillion, Alta, says WADA isn't doing enough to clean up sport.

"Honestly, I think the whole country ski community laughed out loud when we heard that because we're just like, you've got to be kidding"



I still don't see what people here are calling unfair for Russia. I'm sorry if they have athleted competing for them who are on drugs, they should get punished. Too bad, so sad!

Nina_rus
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:31 PM
the fact that it's her "time of the month" absolutely changes it. It's natural that the level of haemoglobin is going up....

GoDominiqu
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:32 PM
Was it too cold ??? No !
Was it snowing ??? No !
Was it stormy ??? No !

If it's too cold, it's like that 3 hours before the race, so you are prepared that it might be postponed. Same for bad weather.

Here, no one was prepared for postponement, and there was no reason. Everyone was ready to start, and no one was complaining. No wonder that you don't have an example for your great idea of 'voluntary postponement'.
And I don't care for your nitpicking on expressions. English is not my native language, but I'm sure you know what I mean. They are responsible, they are in charge, whatever. :rolleyes:
All I want to say that it's bad luck for the other team members, but what can you do ?

GoDominiqu
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:38 PM
In German teletext:

'Because of a haemoglobin-test which was too high, there was a protectional prohibtion to start for Lazutina. Russia hadn't nominated a replacement athlete and couldn't start'.

Nina_rus
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by GoDominique
In German teletext:

'Because of a haemoglobin-test which was too high, there was a protectional prohibtion to start for Lazutina. Russia hadn't nominated a replacement athlete and couldn't start'.

NO that's not true! It was too late. I'm sure we had a replacement athlete and would have won anyway whoever the replacement was

roots
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:45 PM
"WRONG AGAIN ROOTS. Ben Johnson. Remember him ? He's from Canada. He was found DOPED. Rather a handfull of times. He competed at the Seoul Olympics. He was supposed to run in Canada's relays. Should the relays teams be disqualified ? That would be IDIOTIC. They just replaced Ben Johnson with a non- doped athlete. And THAT WAS WHAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED WITH RUSSIA."


So funny you should mention something that happened 14 years ago. Start giving better examples and please more recent. Listen to you, so Lazutina got caught 1/2 an hour before the start. Do you really beleive officilas will go over to the Russian team. "We're sorry, but your star skier just got caught for a little no-no. We'll give you a few hours to find another skier. We think you would have won and it's so unfair" Please, taking drugs is unfair!

Nina_rus
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:47 PM
nobody said she was taking drugs!

ys
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:48 PM
Russian Olympic Comittee is seriously considering pulling out of The Games because of the prejudiced treatment, according ROC President Tyagachyov.

GoDominiqu
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:49 PM
So the whole snow melts in a few hours ??? :rolleyes:

YOU have fantasy-thinking. Fairness must stop at a certain point. Even if the yknew that Russia wasn't there, IT'S NOT THEIR PROBLEM. Do you think the Russian tem expected the other teams to do that ??? Do you think Russia would have done this if Germany hadn't been at the starting line ??? Pleaaaaaaase ... :rolleyes:

Or just because Russia were the favourites ? If Kazachstan (sp?) isn't at the starting line, then you can start, or what ???

ys
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:50 PM
That doesn't make any sense..

From MSNBC..
As a double medalist, the 36-year-old Lazutina would have taken and passed at least two drug tests at the games. Dr. Patrick Schamasch, the International Olympic Committee’s medical director, said he knew of no positive samples from cross-country skiing.

Why would she dope before the event where Russia was a lock for a gold even with the second string squad..

Nina_rus
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:51 PM
they won't pull out, I'm sure.

Any news on Ukraine?

GoDominiqu
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:53 PM
Nina_rus, I thought they meant that you have to nominate a replacement athlete the day before or something like that, so IN CASE that something like thsi happens, you can still start.

Nina_rus
Feb 21st, 2002, 08:57 PM
It's pretty strange if we didn't nominate anyone, don't you think?It's not that we don't have any...

GoDominiqu
Feb 21st, 2002, 09:03 PM
You can't throw all winter-sports together, especially NOT biathlon and cross-country. Biathlon, you can have snow, storm and fog, and they won't start.
Cross-country, they will still start. Only if it's really, really extreme they won't start. They are not as sensitive as you ...

Nina_rus
Feb 21st, 2002, 09:06 PM
I just read another article...
Well you can't change the members of the team later than an hour before the race and they were only informed 15 minutes before..
And NTV (russian channel) reports that the idea of delaying the time when the results for the blood test will be informed belonged to the president of the technical committe Martinsen who is Norwegian...

tenn_ace
Feb 21st, 2002, 09:08 PM
obviously this has been UNFRIENDLIEST games so far in the last 16 years. and btw, I said it a week ago that Russian (all the sports included) shoud fight for Elena and Anton or pull out of the Games. I was right (as usual) :o

I'm not even angry. Not shocked. Something along the lines was expected.

tenn_ace
Feb 21st, 2002, 09:09 PM
and btw, there won't be any reruns... mark my words!

testom ne vyshli.........................................

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Feb 21st, 2002, 09:10 PM
If Russia pulls out are they all going to give back their medals? I hope so, because that means the remaining atheletes of Russia won't have a chance to compete while the earlier ones did.

This sounds too much like a "poor me, poor me" thread.

tenn_ace
Feb 21st, 2002, 09:12 PM
If Russia pulls out are they all going to give back their medals? I hope so, because that means the remaining atheletes of Russia won't have a chance to compete while the earlier ones did.

then what are you doing here???:rolleyes:

VSFan1 aka Joshua L.
Feb 21st, 2002, 09:20 PM
tenn_ace quote:

What are you talking about?

tenn_ace
Feb 21st, 2002, 09:22 PM
Russian NOC President said he DOESN'T exclude the possibility of pulling out of the Olympic Games.

the cat
Feb 21st, 2002, 09:30 PM
Tenn_ace, what's going on? I feel for the R.F., but pulling out won't do any good. Irina will need a fine performance tonight just to take silver, let alone gold. She has Sasha Cohen breathing down her neck. And the Russian hockey team a a huge revenge game tomorrow against America. These athletes have to concentrate on their performances. Not controversy.

Didn't Kabaeva and Cashina fail a test at the Goodwill Games? Then they should lose their Goodwill Games medals. Not their World Championship medals. Maybe Russia should boycott next years Rythmic Gymnastics World Championships. Without Alina and Irina, the event will be sorely lacking. As in lacking it's 2 best performers.

Udachi Irina! Win the gold tonight. But she will have to be extra special, because we are in America, home of Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen. And I have a feeling that Michelle will have to make a couple of mistakes for Irina to have a real chance at the gold medal. It's amazing to think that Russia has had a good chance for gold in all 4 figure skating events. I guess their figure skating dynasty lives on. And that's good news in my eyes.

ys
Feb 21st, 2002, 10:05 PM
The cat,

Irina has no realsitic chance for a gold. She'll have to be a head and shoulders above Kwan to win...

ys
Feb 21st, 2002, 10:12 PM
And guess who will be refereeing USA-Russia hockey match? Who will be refereeing Canada-Belarus match? According to the Russian media it will be a Canadian and American referees..

Iconoclast
Feb 21st, 2002, 10:47 PM
Let me first say that I'm convinced drug use is widespread in cross-country skiing. The Lahti scandal last year gave us a glimpse of what goes on behind the scene. At least in one country.

However, Lazutina did not fail a drug test. Some of the news reports are totally ignorant of this. She failed a health test. There's a difference. She will not be banned. And she will not lose any medals.

True, this particular blood test is partly in place to reduce EPO use. But it is officially a precautionary test to protect athletes from suffering heart conditions through a heightened level of red blood cells.

I'm not sure what impact the menstruation cycle has on this level. But living in altitude effects it. As does dehydration. Your genes play a role as well. Therefore, some athletes are allowed to have an increased limit. Exceeding the limit is not evidence of drug use, although it may hint at drug use.

Lazutina was tested twice previously in the Games. But I'm not sure they specifically tested for EPO.

Clearly, there will not be a rerun of the race. It's over. But Russia may have been treated unfairly. That is: If they were not informed in time and had made the proper precautions to potentially fill in a replacement in case of such a scenario.

Iconoclast
Feb 21st, 2002, 10:58 PM
I'm very sad to hear the news of Kabaeva's positive test. But it is inexcusable.

The drug in question was furosemide - effective for weight loss or as a masking agent. Very fishy.

And I don't buy the excuse that they had simply bought food additives which turned out to be fake.

Also, I don't believe this case is part of some sort of international sports persecution against Russians.

ys
Feb 21st, 2002, 11:08 PM
According to the Russian media ROC President Tyagachyov is meeting IOC President at this moment with the list of demands. According to them if those demands are not met by IOC , ROC, as an institution of Russian Federal Government is instructed by Russian Proesident Putin to immediately withdraw all Russian teams from SLC Games.

http://www.sports.ru/today/test/14500000000018439.html

Iconoclast
Feb 21st, 2002, 11:17 PM
Perhaps the Koreans will join them. They are pretty pissed as well after "Oh no!" had the gold handed to him against Kim.

And the Swedes are miserable as well. They think Salo must have been drugged after he let that ridiculous 4-3 goal in.

Seriously, the Russians have good reason to be sour as hell.

The Sale/Pelletier double gold decision was flawed on so many levels. Rostovtsev was treated as a blood bank. And now this latest case.

However, Russia has really dropped their level in winter sports. Except for female cross-country and figure skating, they have been literally absent in the majority of events.

The Germans and Americans are all over the place, picking up medals left and right. No wonder they are leading the table.

Crazy Canuck
Feb 21st, 2002, 11:37 PM
Is blood doping not entirely possible? If her haemoglobin was indeed awfully high, then blood doping would make sense - where an athlete injects themselves with more red blood cells (their own, that they had taken out and stored) before a race.
The theory is that since there are moe red blood cells in he system, your respiratory system will be even more efficient, as there are more ways to get the O2 to the blood.
Think I have that right..

This is the first I've heard of it, frankly. I'll have to do a little mroe research before forming more of an opinion on it.

But just wondering - what the heck place do the other teams have in this? They aren't at fault for racing without the Russians. So blaming them is just flat out silly.
They were busy preparing mentall and physicall - its not their job to see who is and isn't there. And it certaintly isn't there job to yell "STOP THE RACE! The Russians aren't here". That borders on stupid.

Now it is a little weird they didn't tell them untill half an hour before the race, or allow a substitute. I can see why they might protest that. But if your going to blame the other countries, your blaming the wrong people - blame the IOC who actually has a say in who does and doesn't ski.

I notice a lot of you are talking as if its even a mistake that she doped. IF she blood doped - its totally possible that she hadn't done it for her last two races and thats why no on said anything before. I'm not saying that she did anything for sure - but I highly doubt it had to do with her period. I'm sure the scientists who check the samples, take into account the fact that women mentrate.
Furthermore, when your menstrating your haemoglobin doesn't increase.


ys - what does it matter where the referees are from? Do you really think its going to make a difference wether or not Belarus plays Canada when they have a Canadian referee? And as for he other game - how much can the referee really change the game? If the Russians are good enough to win, they'll win. End of story.

Iconoclast
Feb 21st, 2002, 11:51 PM
Traditional blood doping is a bit old-fashioned. Moser, the great cyclist, admits he used it many years ago. EPO took over around 1990. The Italians mastered the use of this drug. A high level of red blood cells eases the transportation of oxygen and greatly boosts the stamina of an athlete.

There are rumors of new drugs with similar effects - but without increasing hematocrit and haemoglobin values.

Incidentally, some sources are claiming that it was actually two Russians who failed the test.

Also note that Yegorova also failed one of these tests a few months ago.

I previously stated that Lazutina won't be banned. Actually, she isn't allowed to compete during the next 14 days, so she'll miss out on Sunday.

Big Fat Pink Elephant
Feb 22nd, 2002, 12:00 AM
okay.. one question.. and don't kill me...: IF Larissa Latzutina has used drugs... what will happen to her medals she has won here? (she did win one medal or two right??) :angel:

Crazy Canuck
Feb 22nd, 2002, 12:00 AM
Thanks for the info iconoclast. The little I know about doping I learned in a highschool anatomy class - so go figure :)

I think pulling Russia out of the games is just an awful idea. It shows total lack of sportsmanship, and ruins it for the athletes who are yet to go, but have worked 4 years to be here.

I would be totally disgusted if they decided to pull out.

Iconoclast
Feb 22nd, 2002, 12:37 AM
I highly doubt the Russians will pull out with their hockey guys still battling for the most prestigious gold of the competition. Instead, I think they are talking a big game to try and overshadow something which is embarrassing to themselves. The medical team should have these things under control. It's absolutely disastrous to have an athlete fail such a test. Although it seems she only barely scraped past the maximum allowed value of 16.

I believe the IOC promised to test all endurance athletes in these Games for EPO. Lazutina must already have been tested, but came out negative. However, with this new finding, I'm certain they'll do a urine test on her as well to test for EPO. What they are trying to detect is whether or not a significant number of new blood cells have been formed in her body very recently. The test has a window of less than a week.

ys
Feb 22nd, 2002, 01:42 AM
At the moment they say the talk is that they are choosing between uplling the plug or just boycotting the closing ceremony.
The Games are already a joke anyway.

They robbed Russia from this gold which we would have won even if they'd insisted in replacement of Lazutina, but the fact that the announcement of high hemoglobin of Lazutina was postponed by officials till the very minutes when it was already too late to replace.

Now that the latest status of figure skating is that the French judge in pair skating strongly denies any wrongdoing, that there is no evidence of any wrongdoing at all, and that now she is saying that she was in fact under pressure, including physical pressure from local people to vote for Canadians, and that she voted for Russians on merit as she thinks, and that she was clearly slandered by Canadian and US judges. After all that I just don't understand on base of WHAT EVIDENCE did they give the gold to Canadians? The story is becoming crystall clear now.


Crooked, commercialised Games..

One little positiveness though , after all this it will be a bit more difficult for them to rob Irina.

Iconoclast
Feb 22nd, 2002, 02:11 AM
Correction: I'm almost certain that only one Russian failed the test, namely Lazutina. The other one was the Ukranian Irina Terelia I believe.

Another interesting fact: Natalia Baranova, who tested positive on the 18th of January for EPO, has been training with the Russian team in Salt Lake City.

Disturbing.

Crazy Canuck
Feb 22nd, 2002, 06:46 AM
"One little positiveness though , after all this it will be a bit more difficult for them to rob Irina."

Curiousity - if irina had won the short program, as many thought she should have- would she not have won the gold?

Cause Sarah's overall mark would have been 3.0, and Irina's would have been 2.5

Am I right?

fresh2flash
Feb 22nd, 2002, 07:07 AM
Absolutely

Crazy Canuck
Feb 22nd, 2002, 07:09 AM
Wel are they going to bother to protest?

By protest I do not mean pull out of the games - but are they going to file a protest with the IOC?

roots
Feb 22nd, 2002, 02:12 PM
"That's FUNNY ... I didn't know examples lost their validity with time ... Know what ? THEY DON'T. The Canadian relay team has not disqualified because of Ben Johnson. Why should the Russian team be disqualified because of Lazutina ? " (from VivalaSeles)

The Canadian relay team did not get disqualified because the relay races do not happen 'til the last weekend of the Olympics. Ben got caught in his individual race earlier in the Olympics. It's not our problem Canada was able to get a relay team together, blame it on the scheduling.

By the way they (Russians) were not disqualified. They could not find a replacement in time for their drugged athlete.


Have you ever noticed VivalaSeles all you do here is "copy" other poster's messages and than critisize what they say. That's all you ever do. So I'm taking a page out of your book and doing the same to you! Fun isn't it!

ys
Feb 22nd, 2002, 02:24 PM
We have three close calls in figure skating. After one went into our favour, they turned it under pressure of local public opinion. The other two went against us, but no one cares.. Every close call goes against us anyway. What's a point to protest? Non-North American protests are not being even considered here.. No one cares.. We just can't get hurt any more than that on these Olympics.. We should hurt them otherwise it will never end.. I think that boycotting Closing Ceremony, as it was decided, is inadequately weak move for this kind of situation. Russia should leave.

Now they say that they chose Habibulin and Fedorov for pre-match blood tests. Who'd expect anything else? There is no chance in the world they'll alow us to beat American-Canadian team of hockey players and ref today.

Olympics were supposed to bring people together. Olympics in the USA has always hit the exactly opposite target. I think it is the end of the Olympics for quite a while. I don't think people will be interested in it as they previously were. I don't think sportsmen will be too eager to keep non-Professional status for four years for this kind of Games. Simply not worth it.

Vanity
Feb 22nd, 2002, 02:35 PM
Go back to Russia then.

roots
Feb 22nd, 2002, 02:41 PM
Question YS, why is Russia being singled-out? Sure they picked on Lazutina, but they found her to be on EPO. So, what's the problem. Do you wish that they would have picked on somebody else, letting drug-enhanced Lazutina ski to another medal. Russia's not being singled-out, it's not North America's fault if those athletes are on drugs.

roots
Feb 22nd, 2002, 02:44 PM
"Dear, unfortunately, you were unable to do what I do, simply because I read carefully all posts and criticize presenting arguments. What did you do ? Just repeat what all of us knew from the start !!!!!!"

Listen! I know what I've said. You're the one one who keeps bringing up that Russia didn't have time to find a replacement because they found out just before the race. What do you prefer. Letting them ski only to have them disqualified because Lazutina's test comes back positive. They told Russia 15 minutes before the race, because they themselves had only just found out.

I do read what is said here and I'm not repeating anything!

ys
Feb 22nd, 2002, 02:48 PM
VivalaSeles,

what's a point of arguing with roots or Vanity. They represent the 51st state of USA and consider this to be their home Games. They will twist and turn facts just to ignore what all the rest of the world clearly sees. Three medals in figure skating, blood-test error for Rostovtsev, ski relay scandal, Short Track scandal.

roots
Feb 22nd, 2002, 03:05 PM
YS, I'm not trying to argue here. You have to look at the big picture here. I can't say I know how you feel, because I don't. The only thing I can say is that with all these events going on and concerning Russia, obvioulsy it feels overwelming and everything seems worse than it is. I too would be passionate about this if in some way I felt concerned.

By the way, Canada does not represent the 51st State and never will! These are not considered our "home games". Far from it. Those U-S-A, U-S-A chants make we want to puke. There's nothing wrong with a little encouragement, but I find that Americans have a hard time giving credit to other nations.