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View Full Version : My opinion is Williamses needs years to be back at the level they were


stephanwiberg
Feb 18th, 2004, 07:55 AM
I think both of them have never been out of competition for that long.
From the time they were young it was just tennis, all the time
Know they had to stop playing for a while and im curious how quickly they adapt.
Maybe all williams-fans forgot, but it took them quite long, to become the big tournament winners. Hingis and seles were a lot quikcer in that regard and even hingis had starter-problems with that pathetic service at the time.

Stefwhit
Feb 18th, 2004, 08:00 AM
In the opion of professionals they needed to play juniors to have success in their professional careers....everyone has an opinion (especially about the sisters). My opinion is that what you said makes since and if it was applied toward anyone except for Serena I'd agree... I'm not implying that she's going to come out of the gates winning everything right away, but I'm definitely going on record and disagreeing with you that it's going to take a full year for her to get back to her winnning ways. Serena playing medicore is still better than 85% of the tour (again that's just my opinion). Time will tell...

tennisIlove09
Feb 18th, 2004, 08:04 AM
I think both of them have never been out of competition for that long.
From the time they were young it was just tennis, all the time
Know they had to stop playing for a while and im curious how quickly they adapt.
Maybe all williams-fans forgot, but it took them quite long, to become the big tournament winners. Hingis and seles were a lot quikcer in that regard and even hingis had starter-problems with that pathetic service at the time.
Really? Venus starting play a full schedule in 97. She reached the finals of the US Open in 97.

In 98 March (6 months after the Open final) she won Miami--a big tournament.

yet it took her "quite long" to become a "big" tournament winner?

Serena started playing a full schedule late 97/all of 98. Yet, but 1999 (1 year, maybe 1 1/2) she had won the Open Gaz, Indian Wells and in the finals of Miami. 6 months later she won the US Open.

Yet it took her "quite" long to become a "big" tournament winner?

:rolleyes: :devil: :rolleyes:

Stefwhit
Feb 18th, 2004, 08:07 AM
Stephanwiberg- Had I noticed that although you have very few posts you still managed to accumulate a lot of negative rep point, it's likely I wouldn't have been so quick to offer a reply to your thread. I bet it's safe to assume that you start threads and post simply for the sake of getting a reaction- sorry I fell for it....

tennnisfannn
Feb 18th, 2004, 08:12 AM
Obviously any long layoff requires sometime to get into rhythm but no two players are identical and we won't know how the williams are playing till they start playing or become healthy.

stephanwiberg
Feb 18th, 2004, 08:51 AM
Really? Venus starting play a full schedule in 97. She reached the finals of the US Open in 97.

In 98 March (6 months after the Open final) she won Miami--a big
tournament.



yet it took her "quite long" to become a "big" tournament winner?

Serena started playing a full schedule late 97/all of 98. Yet, but 1999 (1 year, maybe 1 1/2) she had won the Open Gaz, Indian Wells and in the finals of Miami. 6 months later she won the US Open.

Yet it took her "quite" long to become a "big" tournament winner?

:rolleyes: :devil: :rolleyes:
Quite long would ofcourse always depend on what you compare it with.
I compared the time from starting on the tour, to really being very big took them both about 2 years then. Which isn't long on itself. I just meant to say that it might take them soemthing like that to be back at same level.

If i meant it long, in a way you suggesting then i would have said in their fifties, or something

stephanwiberg
Feb 18th, 2004, 08:57 AM
Stephanwiberg- Had I noticed that although you have very few posts you still managed to accumulate a lot of negative rep point, it's likely I wouldn't have been so quick to offer a reply to your thread. I bet it's safe to assume that you start threads and post simply for the sake of getting a reaction- sorry I fell for it....

i admit i did that with the Jennytalia-threads, both to get reactions and becuase i was in a jolly mood and had to laugh about it very hard and still think it;s quite funny

This though is by no means dishing or negative even. Its just that a lot of people are curious how it will go with them from now on, and so am I

It just occured to me that it did take them a little longer then some other superstars like monica or martina hingis. At that time me and some other tennis-fans were dishing Richard W. about saying his daughters would become 1 and 2 because for a long time it wasnt always winning/finals for them. Have to admit though after it happened once or twice it smmed to happen all the time.

Rub
Feb 18th, 2004, 08:59 AM
hopefully not!!! i missed them!!!

Stefwhit
Feb 18th, 2004, 10:37 AM
i admit i did that with the Jennytalia-threads, both to get reactions and becuase i was in a jolly mood and had to laugh about it very hard and still think it;s quite funny

This though is by no means dishing or negative even. Its just that a lot of people are curious how it will go with them from now on, and so am I

It just occured to me that it did take them a little longer then some other superstars like monica or martina hingis. At that time me and some other tennis-fans were dishing Richard W. about saying his daughters would become 1 and 2 because for a long time it wasnt always winning/finals for them. Have to admit though after it happened once or twice it smmed to happen all the time.OK... I thought u were possibly one of those 'extremist' who simply post to stir things up and not for "real" tennis talk.... (I noticed that you went from the (neg) red to the (positive) green, congratulations...lol)

Well as far as your topic is concerned- It's simply not true (in regards to Serena anyway). Serena cracked the top 20 eight months after her pro debut by reaching the quarterfinals of the Direct Line Insurance Championships in Lastbourne. That was one of the fastest rises in the history of the tour. Not to mention in Serena's second WTA main-draw event, the Ameritech Cup in Chicago, (No. 304) Serena beat (No. 7) Mary Pierce and (No. 4) Monica Seles on her way to the semifinals. She was the lowest ranked player ever to defeat two top 10 players in the same tournament at the time. That's a nice way to get things started, no?

SJW
Feb 18th, 2004, 10:55 AM
my opinion is that after RG, probably even after Wimby, we shall see exactly what state of mind the williamses are in

stephanwiberg
Feb 18th, 2004, 11:13 AM
my opinion is that after RG, probably even after Wimby, we shall see exactly what state of mind the williamses are in
And all clay by that, Venus wouldn't be one of the top 5, i dare to say.
She did one good french, but there's Justine, Kim, Amelie, Serena, Captalia
and there used to be; Steffi, Monica, Sanchez- v,Martinez, Hingis.
and there will be: Krajicek, Flipkens,Golovin
and if you drink a little more there might be
Martina Muller, Elke Clijsters.

man seeing them win against venus is to me more meaningful and uplifting then world-peace

SJW
Feb 18th, 2004, 11:18 AM
And all clay by that, Venus wouldn't be one of the top 5, i dare to say.
She did one good french, but there's Justine, Kim, Amelie, Serena, Captalia
and there used to be; Steffi, Monica, Sanchez- v,Martinez, Hingis.
and there will be: Krajicek, Flipkens,Golovin
and if you drink a little more there might be
Martina Muller, Elke Clijsters.

man seeing them win against venus is to me more meaningful and uplifting then world-peace
it looks to me like you've drunk enough already :lol:

Doraemon
Feb 18th, 2004, 11:23 AM
At the moment it's fair to say it's taking longer than it was originally anticipated. So the opinion of the starter isn't nonsense I think. Personally I think it will be near the end of the season or around the U.S. Open when the sisters will get back their form. It doesn't mean they will dominate the tour again, though. It seems the Belgians are improving a lot and it's gonna be tough for the sisters to own them the way they used to. I think the more competitive their rivalry gets, it's all the better for tennis and us fans.

Justinefan
Feb 18th, 2004, 11:33 AM
I don't think anyone can know until they are 1. playing again, and 2. playing at their full potential.

stephanwiberg
Feb 18th, 2004, 11:37 AM
it looks to me like you've drunk enough already :lol:

because she hasn't done that well on clay has she. Could you name me one great venus-victory on clay. I mean honestly a semi-final opponent as Clarissa fernandez isn't a tough draw

SJW
Feb 18th, 2004, 11:38 AM
Venus def Hingis 7-5 6-3

stephanwiberg
Feb 18th, 2004, 12:13 PM
Venus def Hingis 7-5 6-3

right Roland Garros on clay.
besides she could be beaten by qualifiers just winning 1 game at a gran slam
So no ,that was not gonna make you win this thread

SJW
Feb 18th, 2004, 12:17 PM
whatever you say, Martina Hingis is a great player who had excellent results on clay...you asked for a good result and i gave you one...if you wanted previous RG winners on clay, i got another champion competitor for you:

Venus def Seles 6-4 6-3

Experimentee
Feb 18th, 2004, 12:19 PM
Well you think Kim is better than Venus on clay, but who did she beat to get to her RG semi, Nadia Petrova? :rolleyes:

SJW
Feb 18th, 2004, 01:06 PM
what's wrong stephan? i scared you cuz i'm right?!

Cybelle Darkholme
Feb 18th, 2004, 01:34 PM
what's wrong stephan? i scared you cuz i'm right?!

most people like him just babble without checking the facts. the facts and results speak louder than any of his warped opinions.

pigam
Feb 18th, 2004, 01:36 PM
it looks to me like you've drunk enough already :lol:
amen :)

Venus' reaction when she sees the following opponents
Elke Clijsters :haha: :haha:
Kirsten Flipkens :haha: :haha:
Tati Golovin :haha: :haha:




Elke, Kirsten and tati when they see they'll have to face venus:
:bolt: :unsure: :eek: :sad: :scared: :shrug: :bolt:

stephanwiberg
Feb 18th, 2004, 01:50 PM
whatever you say, Martina Hingis is a great player who had excellent results on clay...you asked for a good result and i gave you one...if you wanted previous RG winners on clay, i got another champion competitor for you:

Venus def Seles 6-4 6-3


You gave me one and that makes her a claycourt-specialist??
under normal circumstances though hingis would beat venus on clay.
She did always choke though at roland garros
everybody that feel bad about something they feel very embaressed or ashamed of i recommend the tape of that steffi-martina final.
it always ameks yo feel better, cause what you did cant possibly be that painful

stephanwiberg
Feb 18th, 2004, 01:52 PM
Seles is such bad shape that after half a set she's dead-beat
To be honest a Monica in great shape was superb on clay
recently so that delicious monica-sabatini semi-final, they were great back then

servenrichie
Feb 18th, 2004, 01:59 PM
You gave me one and that makes her a claycourt-specialist??
under normal circumstances though hingis would beat venus on clay.
She did always choke though at roland garros
everybody that feel bad about something they feel very embaressed or ashamed of i recommend the tape of that steffi-martina final.
it always ameks yo feel better, cause what you did cant possibly be that painfulExcuses, excuses, excuses. Quit drinking boy and go to bed:lol: :lol:

Aphex
Feb 18th, 2004, 02:16 PM
Have a drink. Now that's a great idea! Saludos all Venus fans! :drink:

SJW
Feb 18th, 2004, 02:17 PM
You gave me one and that makes her a claycourt-specialist??
under normal circumstances though hingis would beat venus on clay.
She did always choke though at roland garros
everybody that feel bad about something they feel very embaressed or ashamed of i recommend the tape of that steffi-martina final.
it always ameks yo feel better, cause what you did cant possibly be that painfulhaha let me see...if you can read, and i'm not totally sure you can....you said last great victory on clay. and her victory over Hingis wasn't even at Roland Garros dear, it was at Hamburg. Hingis won Hamburg twice :) Monica won Roland Garros three times :) between them they won 14 slam singles titles. pretty major stuff huh?

you want some other victories than fine...

Venus wins vs RG winners on clay;h2h on clay:

vs Justine (2-6 7-5 7-6); 1-1
vs Serena (6-4 6-2); 1-1
vs Mary (6-0 6-3, 6-4 6-2); 2-0
vs ASV (6-3 2-6 7-5,6-1 6-3,3-6 6-4 6-1); 3-1
vs Monica (6-4 6-3); 1-0

she didn't face Jennifer, Steffi, Iva on clay...

and the person before that was Chrissy, and i don't think she's old enough to have played her :scared:

SJW
Feb 18th, 2004, 02:18 PM
so as you can see, she doesn't have a losing record on clay vs the greatest of the greatest claycourt players.....

can you say "fool"? cuz you sure look like one :lol:

pigam
Feb 18th, 2004, 02:18 PM
haha let me see...if you can read, and i'm not totally sure you can....you said last great victory on clay. and her victory over Hingis wasn't even at Roland Garros dear, it was at Hamburg. Hingis won Hamburg twice :) Monica won Roland Garros three times :) between them they won 13 slam singles titles. pretty major stuff huh?

you want some other victories than fine...

Venus wins vs RG winners on clay;h2h on clay:

vs Justine (2-6 7-5 7-6); 1-1
vs Serena (6-4 6-2); 1-1
vs Mary (6-0 6-3, 6-4 6-2); 2-0
vs ASV (6-3 2-6 7-5,6-1 6-3,3-6 6-4 6-1); 3-1
vs Monica (6-4 6-3); 1-0

she didn't face Jennifer, Steffi, Iva on clay...

and the person before that was Chrissy, and i don't think she's old enough to have played her :scared:
Now you definately :scared: him away ;)

SJW
Feb 18th, 2004, 02:20 PM
i just love threads like this!

it makes me see what a superb player Ms Venus is :hearts:

servenrichie
Feb 18th, 2004, 02:21 PM
Now you definately :scared: him away ;)Pffff! Skanks always come back:tape:

pigam
Feb 18th, 2004, 02:33 PM
Pffff! Skanks always come back:tape:
I guess you know everything about that :wavey:

SJW
Feb 18th, 2004, 02:34 PM
I guess you know everything about that :wavey:
:tape: :tape: :tape: :tape: :tape: :tape: :tape: :tape: :tape: :tape: :tape: :lol:

servenrichie
Feb 18th, 2004, 02:35 PM
I guess you know everything about that :wavey:And you know how to feed them being one yourself:wavey:

Ballbuster
Feb 18th, 2004, 02:46 PM
Who Knows?

Nonetheless, I believe they are SLACKERS! Whereas before they would come in the tournament and take the title and giggle all the way to the bank. Today, they are the target and are NOT living up to SUPERSTAR Status.

There is a thin line between love and hate.

Paneru
Feb 18th, 2004, 03:15 PM
Or maybe they will just never be back to the level they were.

Could be.

However, to try and gauge that w/o seeing them
play and play healthy, it is quite presumptuous!

Let's wait until their back and in good health to judge.

The one thing that took me in Venus' 3rd round match at the AO
was that her movement wasn't there and it waas due to her health.

Regardless of form, we'll be able to truly judge when they are healthy.
You can win ugly and out of form but if you don't have your health you're
at a disadvantage before you start.

MarcusRock
Feb 18th, 2004, 03:30 PM
That stephan dude is hilarious. LOL.

DeDe4925
Feb 18th, 2004, 05:01 PM
amen :)

Venus' reaction when she sees the following opponents
Elke Clijsters :haha: :haha:
Kirsten Flipkens :haha: :haha:
Tati Golovin :haha: :haha:




Elke, Kirsten and tati when they see they'll have to face venus:
:bolt: :unsure: :eek: :sad: :scared: :shrug: :bolt:
:worship: This post was too good :worship:
The thread starter after this post = :banghead:

DeDe4925
Feb 18th, 2004, 05:02 PM
You gave me one and that makes her a claycourt-specialist??
under normal circumstances though hingis would beat venus on clay.
She did always choke though at roland garros
everybody that feel bad about something they feel very embaressed or ashamed of i recommend the tape of that steffi-martina final.
it always ameks yo feel better, cause what you did cant possibly be that painful
Who said Venus was a "claycourt-specialist"??
:scratch:

Stefwhit
Feb 18th, 2004, 05:22 PM
Who Knows? Nonetheless, I believe they are SLACKERS! Whereas before they would come in the tournament and take the title and giggle all the way to the bank. Today, they are the target and are NOT living up to SUPERSTAR Status....
Granted the injuries are taking longer to be a thing of the past than we previously thought they would, I still don't how can anyone even imply that things are all the sudden different in regards to Serena. How do you know when Serena makes her comeback she still wont be taking the title and giggling all the way to the bank, is this based on seeing Venus play!?!? Let's just remember, the last time Serena took to the courts she won Wimbledon. So as far as I'm concerned Serena is on a winning streak... (even I have to admit that I may be gettin' a little carried away, but you get my point).

harloo
Feb 18th, 2004, 05:35 PM
My question is why are folks so worried about what condition the sister's will be in when they come back? Why not worry about the Capster, or Monica? Now those are the players folk need to worry about.

The sisters will not be in form when they come back, so they will have occasional loses like everyone who comes back from a long layoff from injury. It would be best if folks stopped worrying about the sisters and worry about the current players on the tour and what they are doing. The sisters are not even playing right now.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

SJW
Feb 18th, 2004, 05:36 PM
i would like them to come back from an injury layoff ala Venus 00 and Serena 02 :cool:

they've got back into the groove pretty quickly before...it will be interesting to see what they do from now until Wimby

laj
Feb 18th, 2004, 06:04 PM
I think both of them have never been out of competition for that long.
From the time they were young it was just tennis, all the time
Know they had to stop playing for a while and im curious how quickly they adapt.
Maybe all williams-fans forgot, but it took them quite long, to become the big tournament winners. Hingis and seles were a lot quikcer in that regard and even hingis had starter-problems with that pathetic service at the time.Engaging in a little bit of revisionary tennis history here are we? Here is how the records in regards to "lot quicker by Seles and Hingis” statement of yours:



Firstly: (Winning their first career title):



- Monica Seles (after playing at least one full schedule on the tour) won her first WTA tour title at her 22nd tournament on the WTA tour.

- Serena Williams (who is to this day yet to play a full schedule since joining the tour officially in October of 1997) won her first WTA tour title at her 23rd tournament on the WTA tour.

- Venus Williams (with a part-time schedule then) won her WTA title at her 25th tournament on the WTA tour.

- Martina Hingis (after playing at least one full schedule on the tour) won her first WTA title at her 34th tournament on the WTA tour.



All of the aforementioned player’s first title involved a Tier II event, except Venus's which was a Tier III event.



BTW, there are only two women in WTA history who have ever won back to back maiden titles. They are Steffi Graf and Serena Williams. In both cases, winning a Tier I tournament was involved.



Moreover, Serena Williams's rise through the rankings upon joining the WTA tour is unprecedented-no player in the history of WTA rose through the rankings faster than Serena did, even with her playing just a part-time schedule. The main reason for that is because Serena rise to the WTA top 10 for the first time included an unprecedented 17 different wins against top 10 ranked players.



Secondly :( Winning their first Tier I title):



- Serena Williams won her first Tier I tournament title at her 23rd tournament on the WTA tour. It was also her 3rd attempts at the Tier I level of competition.

- Monica Seles won her first Tier I tournament title at her 34th tournament on the WTA tour. It was also her 3rd attempts at the Tier I level of competition.

- Venus Williams won her first Tier I tournament title at her 27th tournament on the WTA tour. It was also her 7th attempt at the Tier I level of competition.

- Martina Hingis won her first Tier I tournament title at her 41st tournament on the WTA tour. It was also her 10th attempt at the Tier I level of competition.



Thirdly :( Winning their first WTA Tour Championship Title):



- Serena Williams is the only woman in the history of the WTA to have won the Tour Championship title at her first attempts it.

- Monica Seles won her first WTA Tour Championship title at her second attempt at it.

- Martina Hingis won her first WTA Tour Championship title at her second attempt at it.

-Venus Williams is yet to win her first WTA Tour Championship after 2 attempts.



Fourthly: (Winning their first Grand Slam Title):



- Monica Seles won her first Grand Slam title at her 4th Grand Slam tournament on the WTA tour.

- Serena Williams won her first Grand Slam title at her 7th Grand Slam tournament on the WTA tour.

- Martina Hingis won her first Grand Slam title at her 9th Grand Slam tournament on the WTA tour.

-Venus Williams won her first Grand Slam title at her 13th Grand Slam tournament on the WTA tour.



Note: Serena Williams is the only player in the history of the WTA who progressed straight to winning a first time Grand Slam title before first reaching the Quarterfinals, Semifinals, and the Finals in previous attempts.



Obviously, the records in this regard do not support your contention.



Finally, it behooves the prudent tennis fan to wait until Serena returns before making foolish predictions and statements as to her form. After all, she is indeed the most talented female ever to play the game, and that makes quite unpredictable in such regards.

Stefwhit
Feb 18th, 2004, 06:14 PM
Engaging in a little bit of revisionary tennis history here are we? Here is how the records in regards to "lot quicker by Seles and Hingis” statement of yours:



Firstly: (Winning their first career title):



- Monica Seles (after playing at least one full schedule on the tour) won her first WTA tour title at her 22nd tournament on the WTA tour.

- Serena Williams (who is to this day yet to play a full schedule since joining the tour officially in October of 1997) won her first WTA tour title at her 23rd tournament on the WTA tour.

- Venus Williams (with a part-time schedule then) won her WTA title at her 25th tournament on the WTA tour.

- Martina Hingis (after playing at least one full schedule on the tour) won her first WTA title at her 34th tournament on the WTA tour.



All of the aforementioned player’s first title involved a Tier II event, except Venus's which was a Tier III event.



BTW, there are only two women in WTA history who have ever won back to back maiden titles. They are Steffi Graf and Serena Williams. In both cases, winning a Tier I tournament was involved.



Moreover, Serena Williams's rise through the rankings upon joining the WTA tour is unprecedented-no player in the history of WTA rose through the rankings faster than Serena did, even with her playing just a part-time schedule. The main reason for that is because Serena rise to the WTA top 10 for the first time included an unprecedented 17 different wins against top 10 ranked players.



Secondly :( Winning their first Tier I title):



- Serena Williams won her first Tier I tournament title at her 23rd tournament on the WTA tour. It was also her 3rd attempts at the Tier I level of competition.

- Monica Seles won her first Tier I tournament title at her 34th tournament on the WTA tour. It was also her 3rd attempts at the Tier I level of competition.

- Venus Williams won her first Tier I tournament title at her 27th tournament on the WTA tour. It was also her 7th attempt at the Tier I level of competition.

- Martina Hingis won her first Tier I tournament title at her 41st tournament on the WTA tour. It was also her 10th attempt at the Tier I level of competition.



Thirdly :( Winning their first WTA Tour Championship Title):



- Serena Williams is the only woman in the history of the WTA to have won the Tour Championship title at her first attempts it.

- Monica Seles won her first WTA Tour Championship title at her second attempt at it.

- Martina Hingis won her first WTA Tour Championship title at her second attempt at it.

-Venus Williams is yet to win her first WTA Tour Championship after 3 attempts.



Fourthly: (Winning their first Grand Slam Title):



- Monica Seles won her first Grand Slam title at her 4th Grand Slam tournament on the WTA tour.

- Serena Williams won her first Grand Slam title at her 7th Grand Slam tournament on the WTA tour.

- Martina Hingis won her first Grand Slam title at her 9th Grand Slam tournament on the WTA tour.

-Venus Williams won her first Grand Slam title at her 13th Grand Slam tournament on the WTA tour.



Note: Serena Williams is the only player in the history of the WTA who progressed straight to winning a first time Grand Slam title before first reaching the Quarterfinals, Semifinals, and the Finals in previous attempts.



Obviously, the records in this regard do not support your contention.



Finally, it behooves the prudent tennis fan to wait until Serena returns before making foolish predictions and statements as to her form. After all, she is indeed the most talented female ever to play the game, and that makes quite unpredictable in such regards.
You bettah preach it!!! Now that's the "Serena Bible" according to laj, now can I get an "Amen"...

laj
Feb 18th, 2004, 06:22 PM
You bettah preach it!!! Now that's the "Serena Bible" according to laj, now can I get an "Amen".....

Right! Say Amen, unless you can factually contradict the data within. Hehehe!

DeDe4925
Feb 18th, 2004, 06:24 PM
You bettah preach it!!! Now that's the "Serena Bible" according to laj, now can I get an "Amen"...
AMEN!! :bowdown: