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post #16 of 54 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2012, 12:48 AM
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Re: Ana's surface analysis thread

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She was leading in the second, but KDK was leading in the first set. 3rd set was NID, because KDK was a 40 yo who would usually play a 3 setter against the top players, but she lost many of these matches. But the list of the players she managed to beat in her second career is very impressive. I think she played a great match against Ana in Bali. Ana was forced to change her gameplan to beat her, especially in the end of first set. She had to play smartly. And she did it. Every time I see Ana adjusting her game to conditions or opponents, I find it important. Lately, she did very well in that area. Ana from 2012 would win that IW final from 2009 IMO. Nigel has done a great job in that area, she doesn't struggle in windy conditions so much anymore.
You are right.. any match Ana is able to adjust her game and change to find a way to win should be valued highly. And this one was a clear example of that. I still think she doesn't do it as often as she should.. Ana still has ways to go to learn how to read matches better whitin the match.

As for windy conditions.. that Indian Wells final thought her a lesson on wind more than any coach I think. When she gets tough conditions, she remembers she once played in the middle of a hurricane and doesn't get as frustrated as she would get before.. doesn't try to fight the wind, but to use it to her benefit. Not to take credit away from Nigel of course, he is obviously helping her.

Mental Strength is an underrated ability, it sets champions apart

Making mistakes is human, repeating them is dumb.

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post #17 of 54 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2012, 12:58 AM
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Re: Ana's surface analysis thread

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You are right.. any match Ana is able to adjust her game and change to find a way to win should be valued highly. And this one was a clear example of that. I still think she doesn't do it as often as she should.. Ana still has ways to go to learn how to read matches better whitin the match.

As for windy conditions.. that Indian Wells final thought her a lesson on wind more than any coach I think. When she gets tough conditions, she remembers she once played in the middle of a hurricane and doesn't get as frustrated as she would get before.. doesn't try to fight the wind, but to use it to her benefit. Not to take credit away from Nigel of course, he is obviously helping her.
Of course, Ana was never a brainless player. A brainless player can't have great results on all surfaces and in all conditions. When she's not nervous, her point construction is really great. Her first serve also. It used to be faster, much faster, but even now she's always among the #5 or so when it comes to winning % on first serve. It obviously means that she uses her brain while serving. Even the second serve is often precise and has a great placement.

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post #18 of 54 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2012, 01:05 AM
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Re: Ana's surface analysis thread

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Of course, Ana was never a brainless player. A brainless player can't have great results on all surfaces and in all conditions. When she's not nervous, her point construction is really great. Her first serve also. It used to be faster, much faster, but even now she's always among the #5 or so when it comes to winning % on first serve. It obviously means that she uses her brain while serving. Even the second serve is often precise and has a great placement.
I have to disagree with that. Ana's second serve is very poor, needs huge improvement. It's usually hit to the middle of the service box, with no effect.. it's very attackable, and anyone remotely good hits tons of return winners against it or takes control of the point straight away. As a result she always has a minimum win percentage on second serves.

I agree Ana was never a brainless player.. but she still has some issues looking to what is happening on the other side of the net and reading the match/adjusting to the opponent. She does it at time, but not often enough.

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Making mistakes is human, repeating them is dumb.

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post #19 of 54 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2012, 01:13 AM
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Re: Ana's surface analysis thread

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I have to disagree with that. Ana's second serve is very poor, needs huge improvement. It's usually hit to the middle of the service box, with no effect.. it's very attackable, and anyone remotely good hits tons of return winners against it or takes control of the point straight away. As a result she always has a minimum win percentage on second serves.

I agree Ana was never a brainless player.. but she still has some issues looking to what is happening on the other side of the net and reading the match/adjusting to the opponent. She does it at time, but not often enough.
When her second serve is "on", she wins 50 - 60% on it. When it's off, she wins 35 - 45%. It's great for WTA standards.

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post #20 of 54 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2012, 01:20 AM
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Re: Ana's surface analysis thread

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When her second serve is "on", she wins 50 - 60% on it. When it's off, she wins 35 - 45%. It's great for WTA standards.
If you look at win percentage on 1st serve, Ana is always among top 10 best. If you look at win percentage on 2nd serve she is not even top 20 within tournaments. 2nd serve usually gets around 30% win percentage or less against decent oposition, which is not good at all. And watching matches you can see how highly attackable her 2nd serve is.

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post #21 of 54 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2012, 01:32 AM
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Re: Ana's surface analysis thread

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If you look at win percentage on 1st serve, Ana is always among top 10 best. If you look at win percentage on 2nd serve she is not even top 20 within tournaments. 2nd serve usually gets around 30% win percentage or less against decent oposition, which is not good at all. And watching matches you can see how highly attackable her 2nd serve is.
30%? I can't remember that. It happened against Caro, when she made like 10 dfs. Other opponents...? Maybe against Kvitova or Kim. It was awful against LDL, I remember that. But against Krajiček it was like 70%, the same ting against Larsson.

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post #22 of 54 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2012, 01:56 AM
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Re: Ana's surface analysis thread

Indoor seems to be her best surface the past two-three years. Then regular hardcourts. Clay, which should be one of her best surfaces, has been up-and-down. She has been utterly terrible at RG the past three years, when she should be a strong contender. Hopefully that trend changes this year.

It's hard to calculate grass because so few tournaments are played on grass, but in reality, she should be better on the stuff than she is. Only one Wimbledon semi in her career.
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post #23 of 54 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2012, 01:57 AM
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Re: Ana's surface analysis thread

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30%? I can't remember that. It happened against Caro, when she made like 10 dfs. Other opponents...? Maybe against Kvitova or Kim. It was awful against LDL, I remember that. But against Krajiček it was like 70%, the same ting against Larsson.
Pretty much every mach against non-scrubs 2nd serve is around 30%.

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What I write is my opinion, and my opinion only.

Last edited by gaviotabr; May 22nd, 2012 at 02:04 AM.
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post #24 of 54 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2012, 02:02 AM
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Re: Ana's surface analysis thread

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Indoor seems to be her best surface the past two-three years. Then regular hardcourts. Clay, which should be one of her best surfaces, has been up-and-down. She has been utterly terrible at RG the past three years, when she should be a strong contender. Hopefully that trend changes this year.

It's hard to calculate grass because so few tournaments are played on grass, but in reality, she should be better on the stuff than she is. Only one Wimbledon semi in her career.
That's my opinion about her potential on grass too. We saw how great her serve on grass is, the problem is the return and bp conversion in general.

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post #25 of 54 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2012, 02:04 AM
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Re: Ana's surface analysis thread

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That's my opinion about her potential on grass too. We saw how great her serve on grass is, the problem is the return and bp conversion in general.
Problem is how much faster the ball comes to her BH. And how she has a lot less chances to run around it.

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post #26 of 54 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2012, 02:10 AM
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Re: Ana's surface analysis thread

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Problem is how much faster the ball comes to her BH. And how she has a lot less chances to run around it.
But she has the same problem on fast indoor courts, maybe it's the movement on grass that troubles her. She has had those problems in the past because she avoided warm-ups. The serve itself should help her to get far in W, but the problem is that her serve was the worst when she needed it most, against Četkovska.

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post #27 of 54 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2012, 02:20 AM
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Re: Ana's surface analysis thread

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But she has the same problem on fast indoor courts, maybe it's the movement on grass that troubles her. She has had those problems in the past because she avoided warm-ups. The serve itself should help her to get far in W, but the problem is that her serve was the worst when she needed it most, against Četkovska.
Grass bounces lower than fast indoor courts, which gives her less time to run around the BH, and more trouble actually hitting it. One ball to the BH and Ana is toast. There is also the matter of the movement which is much better on HC than grass.

I don't think the serve alone can take her far at Wimbledon.. Ana's serve is good, but not an ace machine to get her a long way on one shot alone.

Mental Strength is an underrated ability, it sets champions apart

Making mistakes is human, repeating them is dumb.

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post #28 of 54 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2012, 02:36 AM
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Re: Ana's surface analysis thread

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Grass bounces lower than fast indoor courts, which gives her less time to run around the BH, and more trouble actually hitting it. One ball to the BH and Ana is toast. There is also the matter of the movement which is much better on HC than grass.

I don't think the serve alone can take her far at Wimbledon.. Ana's serve is good, but not an ace machine to get her a long way on one shot alone.
It's not that she has less times, it bounces lower, but the grass is now much slower and there are elements. Indoor fast is faster than the grass now + no elements, equal time to prepare IMO.

There's no rocket science, she must serve good and go for that fh, which is more effective on hard, but it's still a good shot on all the surfaces. The bh IS extremely poor, but the bh is definitely not the reason why Fed is a grass king. It's his serve and forehand. The same was for Graf and Lindsay. It's not the bh that won Wimbledons for them. Graf was moving better, but not Lindsay.

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post #29 of 54 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2012, 02:49 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Ana's surface analysis thread

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After RG 2008:

W/L

grass: 12 - 8 (60%)

hard indoor: 24 - 7 (77%)

hard outdoor: 69 - 46 (60%)

clay outdoor: 15 - 10 (60%)

clay indoor: 2 - 4 (33%)
Very interesting! Here is the slam breakdown, but I suspect that her results have had quite little to do with the surface of the slam so far:

AO (09,10,11 & 12): 3R, 2R, 1R, 4R. 6/4
RG (09,10 & 11): 4R, 2R, 1R. 4/3
W (08,09,10 & 11): 3R, 4R, 1R, 3R. 7/4
USO (08,09,10 & 11): 2R, 1R, 4R, 4R. 7/4

So far you could argue that the USO has been her best slam by results, followed by Wimbledon Yet if she makes the 4R at RG, her win/loss there becomes identical to Wimbly and USO. So I guess the only conclusion you can draw from these stats is that she was worst at the AO until this year. Like I said though, I don't think the surface had anything to do with these results

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But her best tournaments are IW, Linz and Bali.

IW: 12 - 4

Bali: 6 - 0

Linz: 9 - 0
The slow hardcourts of Indian Wells seem to have consistently favoured Ana more than any other surface

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Also, the tournaments where she was beating top 10 players: Beijing (Dementieva and Zvonareva), IW (Bartoli, Woz, JJ, Flavia?), Rome (Dementieva, Azarenka), Linz (Zvonareva, Radwanska)... Anything else?
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Interesting stats Cajka! Thanks!

Maybe we could divide this discussion in best surface for results and best for level of play... or maybe one complements the other. So here a question.. since RG 2008, in which match/tournament/surface Ana had her best level of play?
Yes! This is where I wanted the discussion to evolve I was thinking, per surface. So her best level of play on outdoor hard, indoor hard, clay etc.

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post #30 of 54 (permalink) Old May 22nd, 2012, 02:53 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Ana's surface analysis thread

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If you look at win percentage on 1st serve, Ana is always among top 10 best. If you look at win percentage on 2nd serve she is not even top 20 within tournaments. 2nd serve usually gets around 30% win percentage or less against decent oposition, which is not good at all. And watching matches you can see how highly attackable her 2nd serve is.
What has been Ana's peak regarding 2nd serve win ratio? Was it high during this year's AO? I remember for the first 3 rounds there she had the highest 1st serve winning percentage

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