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Chris Evert Thread

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#1 · (Edited)
Well Steffi, Jana and Martina N all have threads in their names so I started a thread for Chris Evert.




:bounce:
 
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#177 ·
I cant even put it in print, as in 'black & white', but i can say that bud ... chris did not feel totally supported by bud a LOT and thought he was quick to be critical of her game but not quick to recognize more subtle strengths, and there was a stylistic clash as well. Chris' interest in 'class' and seeing herself as perhaps a bit of a fashionista...looking good on court=feeling good to play well (although over-stated by many, which chris started to revolt against as well) ...was not taken as seriously by bud and chris felt a little like he was ...poking fun, or not fully appreciative that she was somewhat stylistically sophisticated, plus i dont think, in return, she loved his ridiculous pants or criticisms on style from a man WEARING his ridiculous pants. I admit she may have missed some of the fun he represented, but that being said, she missed it. I think he also was into hot chicks on the tour and she was a little 'cool' toward him, didnt like being oogled by some older guy, and wasn't of the sensibility to appreciate his oogling of sabatini and a lot of other young attractive players later in the 80s. She wanted the focus on the tennis and not on the hottness of this young attractive girl or that young attractive girl. Thought that was disrespectful. And bud was a little put off that she was so put off, and probaly felt insulted at some level, like she was saying "oh, pleeease!" which she was.

With all that said, they both had a mutual interest in sort-of being friendly with each other, as he was a top announcer determining the way the public would sometimes perceive her; she was a top player, and i dont think bud was unfond of her, but wanted to stay on relative good terms despite some tepid differences. it just appears to be a struggle for both of their personalities to deal with the other. The article you are referencing sounds like a classic reconcilitory attempt of collins to keep evert thinking he was promoting her in good graces...but --in classic bud/chris not getting each other form-- then i doubt very highly whether she thought the drawing about being splashed with water by martina was funny. Like all great champions, she has an ego, and had a bigger one back then...and there's an insult in that cartoon if you're one to get your ego bruised instead of laughing it off. Martina probably thought that cartoon was very funny, for instance. Chris would not, and would be thinking, "YOU play her, Bud collins, and try to do better."

Add to that, she often didnt think his line of questioning was relevant, and were more about collin's reaffirming his own broadcast style than the tennis. After the french 83, she said, "Who asked me that stupid question the other day? Oh, that was you, Bud." and she was joking but they did little digs a lot throughout chris' playing career. In '86, also at the french, she double faulted on set point to carling bassett and bud asked if she'd ever done that in her CAREER. he was kind-of praising her, she interpreted it as his saying she wasn't playing like she used to, and it just went on and on...two personalities that didnt GET each others humor, and when one wuld finally joke with the other, the other then felt put on the spot or challenged in some way.

ALL OF THAT SAID, Bud did a very touching piece on Chris & Andy Mill (one of the best) from the 1988 wimbledon when chris & andy were getting married. That was one of those very nice authentic reconcilatory moments, albeit it a pretty natural instinct for EVERYONE back when chris was retiring...every one and their mother was putting any grudge aside...The Great Queen was really and truly leaving this sport. No more Miss. Consistency in every semi or final; No more rock of gebraulter in every tournament to purse her lips and narrow her eyes and move mountains. But when chris took over nbc commentating and nudged him out of the booth and into 'reporting from the stands'...i think it just added to what had always, in reality...been...i wont say a 'bad scene' but a perpetual misunderstanding of oil and water.
 
#178 ·
Daze11, thanks again for your insights; I wasn't aware that it was Chris's presense that actually pushed Bud out of his NBC broadcast position, but it certainly sounds logical from that vatage point. And while there were evidently some mixed relationships for Chris with certain people, others (broadcasters) from that period such as Tony Trabert, really loved her and the fondness and respect they shared seemed both genuine and mutual. On the Chris's "Greatest Sports Lengends" tv segment, the two almost appeared as father and daughter throughout the half-hour piece - at least that was my impression :)
 
#179 · (Edited)
Trabert was from a prior generation of tennis royalty and she admired him as a fellow tennis luminary and hall-of-famer...case in point, she didnt think bud was fellow-tennis-legend material. But Mary Carillo was no tennis star (though good results in mixed doubles with john mac!!), and chris liked her a lot. wade a lot. of course, steve flink, she adored. But she just thought steve knew his shit and could work the statistical analysis like no other. He also understood her game and her importance, which didnt hurt. She also didnt get along with Vic Braden who is, like Bud Collins, a kind of goofy self-affacing tennis analyst. Don't mean to say she DISMISSED them as unknowledgeable, but clearly had personality incompatibility issues with those 2 guys in particular. I watched chrissie dump a cup of beer over Braden, so...something in him brought out a part of her that was very uncharacteristic. Didn't like those dudes...ok, that's too strong a statement. But...Could've done without those dudes. :)

I dont think chris was necessarily right to have this attitude...both guys certainly pretty well liked her, except for her rejection of them...but i can understand being uncomfortable with having someone else seem to have the ability to position your image to the public, and not fully trusting their abillity to do it accurately.
 
#180 ·
Bud irritates me a lot in his take on those early 70s years and his ridiculous (imo) rankings for that period, which somehow the wta tour consider "official". The guy is extremely pro-BJK and much less appreciative of Chrissie and Evonne. In 71, he ranked King ahead of Evonne, in 72, his top 6 reads: King - Court -Richey - Evert - Wade - Goolagong (at #6!!!!) and there are the 74 rankings quoted above. It is very clear that he was doing everything to promote the fledgling wta tour.

Excellent point re the surfaces, Daze11. I'll try and do a breakdown so we get a more balanced view. It is certain, though, that King and Goolagong (along with Connors, amongst others) were banned from competing in Rome and Paris because of their WTT contracts. Evonne and Connors wanted to play, I know, and threatened to sue at one point. What became of that I don't remember.
 
#337 ·
Bud irritates me a lot in his take on those early 70s years and his ridiculous (imo) rankings for that period, which somehow the wta tour consider "official". The guy is extremely pro-BJK and much less appreciative of Chrissie and Evonne. In 71, he ranked King ahead of Evonne, in 72, his top 6 reads: King - Court -Richey - Evert - Wade - Goolagong (at #6!!!!) and there are the 74 rankings quoted above. It is very clear that he was doing everything to promote the fledgling wta tour.
Very old post to still respond to, but anyway....

It's beyond me that JUST ONE person could decide what the rankings for any given year were. Personal preferences will inevitably always play a part when people instead of the computer gets to decide such a thing, but to let it depend on the vote of just ONE guy is, well, questionable to say the least. It would have been better to let a panel of ten or twenty experts (of which Collins could have been one) have a vote.

It would be interesting to know how those ranking would have looked using the computerized system of 1975.
 
#181 ·
In regards to the pre-November '75 rankings dilemma, personally I'd find it extremely interesting if one were able to utilize the current computerized ranking system towards preceding years (particularly from '71 onwards) to figure out what the current official system would've ranked these players. Might this be possible (any stats majors around?)? We need some serious number crunching for this thread :)
 
#182 ·
Santorofan said:
In regards to the pre-November '75 rankings dilemma, personally I'd find it extremely interesting if one were able to utilize the current computerized ranking system towards preceding years (particularly from '71 onwards) to figure out what the current official system would've ranked these players. Might this be possible (any stats majors around?)? We need some serious number crunching for this thread :)
I'm 10000000% with you on that one, Santorofan, and from as far back as possible. I can't see how it could be achieved, though, for millions of reasons (cue rant on rankings, I'm afraid; maybe this should be in another thread):

Someone would have to decide which ranking system to use because there have been several (which makes comparing rankings even after 75 stupid imo). Would you have a divisor system or not (and for all or how many tournaments?)

Then, you'd need to decide which grade/tier to attribute to each tournament. Should that be based on prize money alone, as now, or not? Now it's fair enough in the sense that there is an established comprehensive tour but then there were various tours and circuits and players chose their schedules based on millions of considerations and constraints.

You'd also have to have a provisional ranking list to start with if you wanted to include quality points.

You'd need to decide a minimum number of tournaments for eligibility too. This has changed over the years as well. Goolagong-Cawley would have had a year-end ranking at the end of 77 under the system which exists now (as would King in 81), whereas she was underanked at the time. Conversely,
Monica would have been unranked in 93 had the previous minimum of 6 been applied.

Then you'd need access to all the results and that may not be easy, even from 71 onwards.

I really wish some stats wizard(ess or witch, whatever the correct term is)/women's tennis addict with the time and motivation to have a go would apply the same criteria right across the board from as early as possible to now and see what is thrown up. My guess is that many of the so-called records would be significantly altered. One also has to remember that all these ranking changes (plus the deal with Monica's ranking in 95-6) were politically motivated to some extent (e.g. to get players to play more, or to favour big-money (VS) tournaments in the early years), so there's that angle too.
 
#184 ·
Fuzzy math!

Regarding the stats Andy posted above, seems Evonne had a better year overall than BJK in 1974 - won AO, runner up at the US O, won season ending Slims.. also had more wins over Evert (4/7 of Chris's losses), the most consistent player of all that year and a 3-2 edge over King in H2Hs. Also, while I note that although King lost only won more match that whole year than Evert, she also played eight less tournaments than Chris did (15 vs 23).

So who was it again that ranked '74 as 1.)King 2.)Goolagong 3.)Evert (Bud Collins?)? Perhaps they need get head examined, as evidently they got it all backwards! In retrospect, I wonder if King would even honestly agree with that '74 rankings assessment. Talk about fuzzy math!!
 
#185 ·
I just went back and added the surfaces won on in there, Santorofan. In terms of tournament victories by suface, on clay it's Chrissie 8, BJK and EG 0 (I think), on grass it's EG 5, Chris 3, BJK 1, Indoors it's BJK 5, Chris 3, EG 1 and on hardcourts I'm not sure because of Houston and Denver. On clay, there's no debate, on grass, Evonne's top but Evert won the biggest title and indoors BJK's top but Evonne won the biggest title. It's really really tight.
 
#186 ·
Guys your analysis of this period is nothing short of amazing.... I actually thought I knew a thing or two before all this. Thanx for taking the time for giving all your insights.

As for Morozova she became a pretty savvy coach in her time as well as Fed Cup captain. I remember former Aus Fed Cup coach Judy Dalton saying that her and Olga nearlly came to blows over Fed Cup line ups. Olga used to love foxxing aound with her line ups, when the expected thing to do is to play your highest ranked player against the oppositions highest ranked player!

Morozova had influence with the likes of Neiland, Meskhi and Zeverva, but the relationship with Natasha soured when the USSR Federation disbanded and Zvereva publically annouced that Morozova was never her coach. Conincidently Zvereva said this, during the time when Seles said that Bolleteri was never her coach!

The media found Olga annoying too. She used act as translator for her players and often used to change what they were saying, instead of keeping to literal ranslation!

One personality that Chris Evert never liked was John Newcombe. Apparently during her Tracey Austin bad patch John said that Chris should retire. After her 80 US Open victory she gave John the one finger salute!
 
#187 ·
THAT's why I like Chrissie! That cutesy image conceals a woman with balls (or ovaries, I guess, but it just doesn't "ring").
 
#188 ·
Does anyone remember the match Chris played against Lesley Hunt at Wimbledon in 1974? I found a report somewhere on the web the other day that mentioned that at one point during this match Chris kept saying "I can't see, I can't see" because it was so dark (I know the match was stopped eventually because of bad light and resumed the next day). I found that very un-Evert like, as you didn't often hear her speak on court! I never saw this match myself. At the 1976 Wimbledon, they met again and played on Centre Court, but Chris demolished Lesley Hunt in straight sets.
 
#189 ·
I watched both matches.Briefly the 1976 was a 6-1 6-0 rout on a sunny afternoon.Lesley had no chance coping with Chris's pace of shots and Chris had such a determined air about her to avoid a long confrontation that had occured two years earlier on the same court.The 1974 second round match started around 5.30pm on a rain delayed day(well it is Wimbledon).Lesley from what i remembered( i was 10 at the time) served and volleyed but the conditions were skiddy on court and Chris avoided chasing some balls she may have retrieved otherwise,sensibly avoiding injury.It was also cloudy,dark and i think windy so her renowned(Chris's that is)groundstrokes lacked consistency and she appeared pre-occupied with the conditions as the match wore on.Chris actually served for the match at either 5-2 or 5-3 final set but was broken and as it progressed to 9 all she did question the validity of the continuing scenario as it was dark by the time they came off court(Forgotten the words voiced).
Another close match in Wimbledon 1974 was a 3rd round thriller played on Court 1 between Evonne Goolagong and fellow Aussie Kerry Harris.It went 6-4 final set to Evonne but there were many opportunities for Kerry H to have won in straight sets.
Does anyone know what happened to both Lesley and Kerry??
P.s my first thread!!
 
#192 ·
Last I heard both Lesley Hunt and Kerry Harris were living in Western Australia. I can remember a story sometime ago about Kerry Harris living in Geraldton (north of Perth if that helps). I think she may have married a farmer and been there for a while.

Lesley Hunt was living in Perth - and had some coaching position there a few years back. She originally married an American guy when she was still playing - and I think there was a subsequent marriage to an Australian guy when she returned to live in Australia. She was a pretty gifted player - who probably didn't reach achieve her full potential - amazingly athletic, but maybe she didn't really have the strikes of some of the best in her era. She always seemed to think she had a pretty good shot against Chris (probably because she got so close in the Wimbledon match, but I'm not sure whether she ever beat her). Lesley also had an amazing early record against Goolagong in their junior days. It was something like 6-1 in favour of Hunt at one stage - but Evonne got better and better in the professional ranks, and Lesley didn't!!
 
#193 ·
tilden said:
Lesley also had an amazing early record against Goolagong in their junior days. It was something like 6-1 in favour of Hunt at one stage - but Evonne got better and better in the professional ranks, and Lesley didn't!!
Yes they were junior rivals. Evonne talks about Hunt often in her early pages of her book Home. Unfortunately the info around the Oz traps about the likes of Gourlay, Hunt, Harris isn't great. Basically at that time if you weren't a huge contender ala Court, Goolagong then you weren't worth writing about.... and they are then forgotten in times like these.
 
#194 ·
Rollo said:
My pleasure Double fault:) How did you come to be an Evert fan?
I detested her at first(Virginia Wade was my pet)-but grew to appreciate her class. By 1983 I was cheering her on all the way!
When I get money I want to get all those tapes of old matches. A few that stick out are the US Open semi of 1981 and of course the French of 1985.

I remember the first time I heard about Chris was in 73 and I was really a small kid but my parents were tennis fans and watching the Wimbledon 73 SF. The King-Goolagong SF was on, I didn' t really understand the rules but I liked BJK because she had glasses ( :confused: ) and I was happy she won; so I remember asking "has she won the tournament?" and I was told "no, she still has to play Chris Evert in the finals" and I ask "Chris who?". Anyway, I was told that this famous Chris Evert was quite young and cutie, as cold as ice, with a double-handed backhand (that was quite rare at the time) and that she was Connors' Fiancée. Very attractive description, so I watched the finals and indeed Chris was my first childhood crush! In addition, I remember one of my parents' friends saying something like 'I hope King wins because Evert is such a cold bitch', which added more to the attraction!! Glamorous and bitchy, she definitely deserved a lot of attention.

When I was older and started playing tennis myself, I started following her results as closely as I could and try to watch her on any occasions ... this was probably between 76 and 89 until she retired. I saw her play twice live in the French and once in an exhib match. :bounce:
 
#195 ·
Rollo said:
She did get very thin, didn't she Mark? In 1981 I thought she was border-line anorexic. Streisand-LOL:)

She started losing weight after she married John Lloyd :lol: if you compare the Chris 1978 and Chris 1979, it seems that you're facing two different players. I liked the ponytailed 81-82 version together with the Ellesse outfit (Really suited her like a glove), but yeah the 83 looks was the best! Pity it wasn't a great year for her :fiery:
 
#196 ·
She did look good in the early 80s but then we got that "poor white trash" look, softened it up to win Roland garros in pink in 86 and finally, we had the cutesy Rinaldi plaits. Chris ran the gamut of looks from virgin to hooker during her career.
 
#197 ·
Andy T said:
She did look good in the early 80s but then we got that "poor white trash" look, softened it up to win Roland garros in pink in 86 and finally, we had the cutesy Rinaldi plaits. Chris ran the gamut of looks from virgin to hooker during her career.

I liked the 1989 plates at Wimb, when she played Golarsa, looked better than the sophisticated hairdo 'à la Brigitte Bardot' she got when she beat Seles at the US Open
 
#199 ·
jeanmi18 said:
Sorry I meant 'plait', I'm getting tired
Me too, Jeanmi(chel?). Don't take my bitching about Chrissie seriously, will you? it's all done with a lot of affection! It was hilarious for a while in 84 when Chrissie went for the "vampy trampy" look and Martina went for the paroxide lesbian bowl at the same time - they looked like a couple of drag queens. Then there was Andrea Temesvari with that HEAVY-duty make-up and, of course, the immortal Pamfro. Threads are dedicated to great years 81/90, etc, etc but 84 takes a lot of beating for hideous hairdos!
 
#200 ·
Andy T said:
Me too, Jeanmi(chel?). Don't take my bitching about Chrissie seriously, will you? it's all done with a lot of affection! It was hilarious for a while in 84 when Chrissie went for the "vampy trampy" look and Martina went for the paroxide lesbian bowl at the same time - they looked like a couple of drag queens. Then there was Andrea Temesvari with that HEAVY-duty make-up and, of course, the immortal Pamfro. Threads are dedicated to great years 81/90, etc, etc but 84 takes a lot of beating for hideous hairdos!

Not at all offended Andy, in fact I think you're quite funny, same for Alfajeffster, BCP, Rollo, Darren Cahill and our dear Nat Tauziat! My top-6

In 84, a journalist said that, if you wanted to copy Chris' hairdo, no need to go to Vidal Sassoon, just put on a bathing-cap with a couple of firecrackers underneath :bounce:
 
#201 ·
LOL!
Don't forget Pamela Howard Shriver-Lazenby and Tennisvideos!
 
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