Chris and Martina in the Same Event - TennisForum.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 2013, 01:08 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,551
                     
Chris and Martina in the Same Event

OK. I have always thought that the h2h 43-37 for Martina over Chris was a little unfair. After all, Chris won many events in the early years of their careers in which Martina lost prior to the finals to another player. So I went through the WTA website and logged info on tournaments in which both players participated.

Surprising. There were 164 events that both players played. Evert won 71 of those events. Martina won 56. Some might say that this is unfair in that Martina was only 16 when they first played. However, to discount Martina because of age is to discount an Evert strength - she beat the top players on the world at ages 15 and 16. Also, the two year age difference came back to hurt Evert later. Martina won the 6 of the last events the two played together (Graf or Sabatini won 7 - you have to go back to '88 Houston to find Evert's last win).

PreacherFan
preacherfan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 2013, 01:09 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,551
                     
Re: Chris and Martina in the Same Event

Players who won events in which Evert and Navratilova were both entered.

Evert 71
Navratilova 56
Graf 10
King 6
Goolagong 3
Wade 4
Court 3
Austin 6
Mandlikova 2
Sukova 1
Sabatini 2

PreacherFan
preacherfan is offline  
post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 2013, 01:16 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,551
                     
Re: Chris and Martina in the Same Event

Players who beat Martina and Chris in the same event:
Graf 2
Sukova 1
Mandlikova 1
Jaeger 1
Austin 4
Goolagong 2
Casals 1

PreacherFan
preacherfan is offline  
 
post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 2013, 01:35 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 452
                     
Re: Chris and Martina in the Same Event

good and unique topic thread to start. of course most think the biggest argument between chris and martina, martina and chris is the head to head who was better in the end argument..

i think like others one has to take the numbers 43-37 into proper context, whether early in their careers, the end of their careers, the middle domination of martina, the "what if's" chris had switched to graphite earlier? what if martin had gotten in better physical and mental condition earlier? etcetera...

the biggest most used argument in the head to head totals seemingly is the whole "it depends on which surface they played on and which surface they played on the most" argument which i find very valid...

at the end of the day the 43-37 head to head is too close to call and in 80 matches and this long of a time span of a rivalry i think the reality is that their rivalry ended for all intents and purposes EVEN, DEAD EVEN.. now if the head to head after 80 matches was 50-30 then of course one would have to give the career and 'who was truly better" advantage to one or the other...
laschutz is offline  
post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 2013, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,551
                     
Re: Chris and Martina in the Same Event

It's surprising that Austin was so successful in winning 6 events in which Evert and Navratilova entered and beating them both in the same event 4 times. As surprising is that Goolagong (in more years of opportunity) only won 3 events in which the two were entered and only beat the two in the same event twice. I don't often give Austin enough credit for her top rate play. It also shows the brilliant inconsistency of Goolagong. Amazing that BJK never beat both players in the same event. Kudos to Rosie for making the short list of those who beat them both in the same event. She only beat Evert once and it happened to be in an event where she also beat young Martina.

PreacherFan
preacherfan is offline  
post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2013, 07:36 AM
Senior Member
 
PamShriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: In a Hottub with Judy Nel
Posts: 908
                     
Re: Chris and Martina in the Same Event

Don't think Jaeger ever beat Evert and Navratilova in the same event. She only beat Chris three times, all three wins were in the first half of '82: Oakland, Hilton Head and Roland Garros, Martina proceeded to beat Andrea in the finals of the latter two and I'm pretty sure she didn't play in Oakland in '82.

That's what she said!!!
PamShriver is offline  
post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2013, 09:12 AM
BCP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London
Posts: 1,971
                     
Re: Chris and Martina in the Same Event

Really interesting way to look at things, and underlines Chris's comnsistency over such a long period. Preacherfan, if it's not too much trouble, how does Chris's 71 & Martina's 56 look broken up to pre and post 83?
BCP is offline  
post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2013, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,551
                     
Re: Chris and Martina in the Same Event

Quote:
Originally Posted by PamShriver View Post
Don't think Jaeger ever beat Evert and Navratilova in the same event. She only beat Chris three times, all three wins were in the first half of '82: Oakland, Hilton Head and Roland Garros, Martina proceeded to beat Andrea in the finals of the latter two and I'm pretty sure she didn't play in Oakland in '82.
Jaeger shouldn't be included. However, in the YEC of '81, Jaeger had a walkover against Evert and beat Navratilova. So technically, I guess, she beat both.

PreacherFan
preacherfan is offline  
post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2013, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,551
                     
Re: Chris and Martina in the Same Event

1973 - 10 events - Evert 6/Navratilova 0
1974 - 14 events - Evert 9/Navratilova 0
1975 - 14 events - Evert 9/Navratilova 2
1976 - 12 events - Evert 10/Navratilova 1
1977 - 12 events - Evert 9/Navratilova 2
1978 - 8 events - Evert 5/Navratilova 2
1979 - 11 events - Evert 3/Navratilova 6
1980 - 7 events - Evert 3/Navratilova 3
1981 - 10 events - Evert 3/Navratilova 2 (Austin - 4)
1982 - 7 events - Evert 2/Navratilova 5
1983 - 8 events - Evert 1/Navratilova 7
1984 - 8 events - Evert 1/Navratilova 7
1985 - 9 events - Evert 3/Navratilova 5
1986 - 7 events - Evert 2/Navratilova 5
1987 - 9 events - Evert 1/Navratilova 3
1988 - 10 events - Evert 1/Navratilova 3
1989 - 5 events - Evert 0/Navratilova 3

PreacherFan
preacherfan is offline  
post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2013, 12:09 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,551
                     
Re: Chris and Martina in the Same Event

Between the 1981 YEC (won by Austin) and the 1985 US Open (won by Mandlikova), no other player won an event in which both Chris and Martina played. Wow!

PreacherFan
preacherfan is offline  
post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2013, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,551
                     
Re: Chris and Martina in the Same Event

Quote:
Originally Posted by laschutz View Post
at the end of the day the 43-37 head to head is too close to call and in 80 matches and this long of a time span of a rivalry i think the reality is that their rivalry ended for all intents and purposes EVEN, DEAD EVEN.. now if the head to head after 80 matches was 50-30 then of course one would have to give the career and 'who was truly better" advantage to one or the other...
I agree. The point of this thread is not to prove the superiority of one player over another but to show that Evert has an advantage in the number of h2h tournament wins. Evert almost never lost to a lesser player early in an event. Martina was subject to more early losses in events, though she was very difficult to beat once she reached the finals. Different characteristics of the two players in the sport's best rivalry.

PreacherFan
preacherfan is offline  
post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2013, 12:47 PM
Moderator - BFTP
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 22,782
                     
Re: Chris and Martina in the Same Event

Great idea for a thread PF

Quote:
It's surprising that Austin was so successful in winning 6 events in which Evert and Navratilova entered and beating them both in the same event 4 times.
Not so surprising to me. Some like to knock Tracy Awesome (not you Preacherfan), but to my mind she far and away the biggest threat to the Chris and Martina dominance. All one has to do is read Evert's autobiography to see how big a threat she viewed, where she places huge importance on beating Tracy at the 1980 US Open.

The other thing is the short space she did all that wreckage in. Chris basically started to play the tour at 16. Austin won a slam at 16. Trascums was a teenage terror if ever there was one!

What surprised me was the low totals for Evonne. In the 1974-76 period I expected her totals to be higher.
Rollo is offline  
post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2013, 12:54 PM
Moderator - BFTP
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 22,782
                     
Re: Chris and Martina in the Same Event

Quote:
Don't think Jaeger ever beat Evert and Navratilova in the same event. She only beat Chris three times, all three wins were in the first half of '82: Oakland, Hilton Head and Roland Garros, Martina proceeded to beat Andrea in the finals of the latter two and I'm pretty sure she didn't play in Oakland in '82.
Hey Pam

In retrospect the 1982 French was Andrea's best chance for a double and a slam. She had set point, on clay, vs a Martina who had never won at Roland Garros. It was a perfect setup for her.

Martina's win was a testament to her mental fortitude that day. Things could have easily went south for her.
Rollo is offline  
post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2013, 01:39 PM
BCP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London
Posts: 1,971
                     
Re: Chris and Martina in the Same Event

Thanks Precherfan. Interesting that Chris only won 9 of her 71 (13%) from 83 onwards, where as Martina won 33 of her 56 (59%).

Chris's stats are much more lopsided than Martina's. 1979 seems to be the turing point.
BCP is offline  
post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 2013, 07:47 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 242
                     
Re: Chris and Martina in the Same Event

Quote:
Originally Posted by preacherfan View Post
Players who won events in which Evert and Navratilova were both entered.

Evert 71
Navratilova 56
Graf 10
King 6
Goolagong 3
Wade 4
Court 3
Austin 6
Mandlikova 2
Sukova 1
Sabatini 2
Interesting. Amazing someone like Hana who has won 4 slams only won 2 events that Chris and Martina were both in. I would have figured Graf would be alot higher than 10 since she began winning alot of tournaments as early as 1986, and dominated the last 2-3 years when both Navratilova and Evert were both still on tour and near the top. I would have also guessed Goolagong being alot higher than 3 considering she was Evert's biggest rival and superior to Martina from 74-76.
rollingraces is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome