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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 18th, 2011, 06:43 PM Thread Starter
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New Book On Women S Tennis

HI
FOR THE FANS TO TENNIS RESULTS A NEW BOOK ON WOMEN S TENNIS .
IT S CONCERNED WOMEN S TENNIS 1968-1984 WITH DRAWS AND HISTORY FROM THIS PERIOD.
THE ULTIMATE GUIDE FROM JOHN DOLAN
IF YOU SEE HIS SITE

www.womenstennisguide.co.uk

THANK YOU SO MUCH


MIGUEL
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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 18th, 2011, 10:29 PM
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Re: New Book On Women S Tennis

I'm not quite sure why I would buy that book when I have this forum....
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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 19th, 2011, 12:29 PM
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Re: New Book On Women S Tennis

Hey there. I respect that everyone has the right to their opinion. Its obvious several individuals have worked tirelessly and passionately in taking on the mammoth task of attempting to document every tournament result over the course of a century. This site is a tremendous asset to fans of women's tennis all over the world and through everyone's shared contribution we can help set the record straight for future generations.

My focus was a bit more defined. I chose the founding era of professional tennis from 1968 to 1984 having working in women's pro tennis for many years, since I was aware of what was missing in the WTA computer. Through my contact over the years with various sources (ex-players, officials, tournaments, administrators and the press) I have diligently managed to piece together the main women's tournaments during that era to include info thats been missing for so long. Total prize money for over 30 draws each year, including seedings, tiebreaker scores, prize money round by round breakdowns, times of matches, if it was once recorded, I have tried my best to unearth it. I have also reviewed each key match (including those in the majors) and the happenings that took place in it.

I have noticed on here, with the exception of the Australian tournaments, World Tennis magazine seems to have been used as a primary resource. While that is invaluable, it does contain errors and missing frequent results (from such notable events as the German, Irish and South African Opens, as well as the US Clay Courts). Even World of Tennis annuals aren't immune, as there is a famous example of an incorrect score at the 1971 VS of Chattanooga where King d. Durr 6-3 6-2 in the SF, not 6-0 6-0 as has been noted. WOMEN'S TENNIS 1968-84: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE is simply my attempt at pooling all of my resources throughout the years, putting these results, stats and stories down in to one collector's volume so that tennis fans and the media had a comprehensive resource of that important era.

This is not my attempt to undermine anything thats been done on this forum. Recounting history is a shared effort. If there are fans out there that love the era from 1968 to 1984, reading those results with some old and new anecdotes, then I hope you enjoy reading my book as much as I enjoyed writing it.
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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 19th, 2011, 06:39 PM
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Re: New Book On Women S Tennis

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Originally Posted by SW15sport View Post
I have noticed on here, with the exception of the Australian tournaments, World Tennis magazine seems to have been used as a primary resource.
That definitely is NOT true for me. I mainly use contemporary newspaper accounts of matches, which are generally reliable.
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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2011, 08:20 AM
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Re: New Book On Women S Tennis

Why no Margaret Court pics on your web site. The 1970 Grand Slam and the outstanding 1973 campaign alone deserve a photo or two on the front page. Zina Garrison? Hardly in the conversation. Are there more pics of the players still around in 1968 like Maria Bueno, Margaret Court and Ann Jones, just to mention a few. I understand that when Billie Jean lends her name to something, it's generally in support of the Billie Jean version of how things went (she signed off on an article I did for a newsletter back in 1995), but pictures of Margaret's Grand Slam are woefully rare given the magnitude of the achievement.

There is nothing more beautiful than Evonne Goolagong in full flight moving across a tennis court.
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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2011, 09:22 AM
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Re: New Book On Women S Tennis

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Originally Posted by alfajeffster View Post
Why no Margaret Court pics on your web site. The 1970 Grand Slam and the outstanding 1973 campaign alone deserve a photo or two on the front page. Zina Garrison? Hardly in the conversation. Are there more pics of the players still around in 1968 like Maria Bueno, Margaret Court and Ann Jones, just to mention a few. I understand that when Billie Jean lends her name to something, it's generally in support of the Billie Jean version of how things went (she signed off on an article I did for a newsletter back in 1995), but pictures of Margaret's Grand Slam are woefully rare given the magnitude of the achievement.
Naturally, being a staunch supporter of Margaret Court, I had wondered the very same thing. It just goes to demonstrate once more that Court, and her achievements, are indeed underestimated.

Anyway, well done John. I have purchased a copy and look forward to adding it to my collection.

Fave recent players: .. Seles .. Hingis .. Serena .. Venus .. Federer .. Roddick .. Hewitt .. Haas .. Rafter .. Safin .. Radwanska ..
60s/70s: Evonne Goolagong .. Francoise Durr .. Chris Evert .. Margaret Court .. Nancy Richey .. Maria Bueno .. Billie-Jean King .. Lesley Turner .. Virginia Wade .. Ken Rosewall .. Rod Laver .. Bjorn Borg ..
Entertainers: .. Diana Ross .. Dionne Warwick .. Shirley Bassey .. Randy Crawford .. Burt Bacharach .. ABBA .. Woody Allen .. Maggie Smith .. Gena Rowlands .. Judy Davis .. Heath Ledger .. Little Britain ..
Inspiration: .. Jeshua Ben Josepth .. Conversations with God .. Abraham with Esther & Jerry Hicks .. P'taah ..
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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2011, 09:36 AM
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Re: New Book On Women S Tennis

Yes, three pictures of BJK in the gallery and none of Margaret Court, yet there is one of the British Federation Cup team!

Margaret Court is considered by very many people to be the best player of all time, including of the era of 1968-84. She is the only player in the mentioned period to win a calendar Grand Slam - and she is not there??? (Not to mention the two other years when she won three out of four slams!!). Yet we have Andrea Jaegar, Sue Barker, Zina Garrison and others who never won a slam at all......

I can well believe this was not the intention of the author, but the choice of the publishers, marketing people, etc....
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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2011, 06:03 PM
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Re: New Book On Women S Tennis

Good observation.

Let it be known I am a huge supporter of Marge, and had I been able to choose from a nice selection of pix, she would have been right up there on the cover, due to her superlative record from 1968-73, and even prior to that. But as the last poster correctly touched on, I was limited by the photographs supplied to me by a photographer who covered the WTA Tour from 1976-84. Inside there are additional pix of Barker, Casals, Jaeger, Wade, but I did manage to get my hands on a very feminine action pic of Mrs. Court (wearing her first tennis dress designed by Ted Tinling during the 1972 Dewar Cup). Alas that pic didn't work well with the style of the head shots chosen for the cover. For Durr fans, I reached out to her to try and get an iconic one of her "in backhand crouching pose" to include inside, (just like your avatar pic Craig), but alas she didn't get back to me in time for printing.

My reasoning for picking those five ladies on the cover (in addition to being of good enough quality and similar in style), incase you are wondering, in the interests of "fairness" I decided on the first five women to hold the official WTA computer ranking since its inception in 1975. In marketing feedback also Margaret, despite her superlative record, still oddly lags behind names like Evert, Navratilova, King, Gong and Austin (who has a big profile in Grand Slam markets due to her commentary on host broadcast networks) in popularity, unless we're talking solely in Australian or Ministerial circles ;-)

The gallery section showcases some of the work of the photographer, rather than what is inside the book, which adheres more to the main characters of the era I focussed on. A lot of these pix haven't been seen before, but if you feel it is misleading, I will consider removing them.

thanks for your feedback.
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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2011, 07:09 PM
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Re: New Book On Women S Tennis

Does your book provide round-by-round doubles results (not just the finals)?
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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2011, 10:29 PM
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Re: New Book On Women S Tennis

Round by round doubles only for season-ending championships and Wightman Cup. All doubles finals contain seedings and prize money for both teams where listed.

Had I included round by round doubles for all draws, I would have ended up with a book over 1,000 pages, costing almost double the price, weighing almost 2kg, not to mention another couple of months of data entry, which unfortunately time didn't permit.
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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2011, 10:56 PM
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Re: New Book On Women S Tennis

Quote:
I have noticed on here, with the exception of the Australian tournaments, World Tennis magazine seems to have been used as a primary resource. While that is invaluable, it does contain errors and missing frequent results (from such notable events as the German, Irish and South African Opens, as well as the US Clay Courts). Even World of Tennis annuals aren't immune, as there is a famous example of an incorrect score at the 1971 VS of Chattanooga where King d. Durr 6-3 6-2 in the SF, not 6-0 6-0 as has been noted. WOMEN'S TENNIS 1968-84: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE is simply my attempt at pooling all of my resources throughout the years, putting these results, stats and stories down in to one collector's volume so that tennis fans and the media had a comprehensive resource of that important era.
I'll definitely be taking a look at your book. It sounds like an invaluable resource-your connections to the tour being a definite bonus! And from personal experience there's no doubt this was a labor of love of your part.

The critique about sources is well taken, though I would add that results are often also checked against the New York Times and other sources. Nonetheless there are errors. It bothers some people to admit mistakes, but in an endeavor like this we are usually relying on imperfect resources. No source is perfect, and all inevitably contain mistakes of one nature or another.

I've seen errors in World Tennis, American Lawn Tennis, books by Alan Little (whom I highly respect and is the Wimbledon librarian), the New York Times, etc.

The end results is that in my view we all make errors.

One advantage to posting results online is we can "catch" errors and update information. I look forward to seeing what's in your book SW15-and I hope at some point you'll have time to share some of your experiences from the tour with us!
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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2011, 11:08 PM
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Re: New Book On Women S Tennis

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...The gallery section showcases some of the work of the photographer, rather than what is inside the book, which adheres more to the main characters of the era I focussed on. A lot of these pix haven't been seen before, but if you feel it is misleading, I will consider removing them.

thanks for your feedback.
Oh don't remove a thing. You are absolutely right in that Margaret wasn't generally marketable during her career, and many (if not most) only remember the odd negative remarks she made at press conferences. Let's face it, she wasn't a party waiting to happen, especially with the likes of Billie Jean an ChrisAmerica in the limelight. Perhaps if Madge had continued her domination after the birth of her second child, things would've been different post the tennis explosion created by the Battle of the Sexes. The fact that she lost so badly to Riggs in the middle of the women's lib movement didn't advance her cause, either.

There is nothing more beautiful than Evonne Goolagong in full flight moving across a tennis court.
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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 2011, 11:18 PM
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Re: New Book On Women S Tennis

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Round by round doubles only for season-ending championships and Wightman Cup.
Pity.
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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 21st, 2011, 06:19 AM
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Re: New Book On Women S Tennis

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I have noticed on here, with the exception of the Australian tournaments, World Tennis magazine seems to have been used as a primary resource. While that is invaluable, it does contain errors and missing frequent results (from such notable events as the German, Irish and South African Opens, as well as the US Clay Courts). Even World of Tennis annuals aren't immune, as there is a famous example of an incorrect score at the 1971 VS of Chattanooga where King d. Durr 6-3 6-2 in the SF, not 6-0 6-0 as has been noted. WOMEN'S TENNIS 1968-84: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE is simply my attempt at pooling all of my resources throughout the years, putting these results, stats and stories down in to one collector's volume so that tennis fans and the media had a comprehensive resource of that important era.

It was always understood that World Tennis did contain errors from time to time (but what doesn't? -even the USTA annual year book for 1967 wrongly carried the result that Francoise Durr had beaten BJK in their Federation Cup match of 1966!) and that it did indeed miss out results and even important events but it was by far the most comprehensive publication which most had ready access to. If any results which WT missed were noticed in other pub-lications they would be recorded.

You have to accept any results they published as correct - why or how could you start to query even one result unless something subsequently showed up elsewhere?

As Rollo says everything is reported from your source in good faith - if it turns out to be incorrect I don't see anything wrong in holding your hand up, admitting and rectifying it. And of course there's also human error which I would certainly admit to at times.

At long last though inadvertently you have cleared a major bugbear up for me! For a couple of years from time to time I would have mentioned that BJK had double-bageled both Francoise Durr and Ann Jones within the space of a couple of weeks in 1971. Then I noticed that results in the Forum had no such one for Frank.ie and checking a couple of mags confirmed this.

It's the sort of result which would immediately make an impression and hard to understand how you would wrongly pick it up but I just had to accept that I was completely wrong but now I know I wasn't going completely mad?

Anyway, it will be interesting to see if results from the George McCall Women's Pro tour are included.

The period from 1968-1974 is what I am most looking forward to.

Congrats on the project and on getting it published - hope it sells well.

Margaret Thatcher - Michele Bachmann two strong women of our time.
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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old Jun 21st, 2011, 08:47 AM
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Re: New Book On Women S Tennis

Hi Folks, quick update.

Thanks for your feedback. No one source is infallible, lets be clear on that. I have done my best to eliminate those errors but any volume of work will inevitably contain a few annoying typos, which i am hoping keen eyes on here might even spot. I didn't mean to turn the spotlight on WT Magazine (a terrific resource, which thankfully includes many first names), but while they rarely got scores incorrect (Richey v. Jones 1969 Vegas being an obvious example), they had an annoying habit of not confirming players who had byes or only including results of top players (see Caribbean circuit occasionally, the Irish, German and RSA Opens). Sometimes they didn't like to include the local players who only played once in a blue moon. Similarly the NY Times or any news outlet. Sometimes the Times wasn't even on-site and received the results via the local press officer or via an agency.

I was fortunate that I was able to cross reference with some accurate sources - from the players, with John Barrett and Alan Little at the Wimbledon Lawn Tennis Library and to obtain actual draw sheets themselves throughout my tenure at the WTA, which helped the cause endlessly. If in doubt I could choose from one of the five leading UK newspapers tended to cover the sport nationally and internationally, and was able to cross reference these from the thousands of international titles stored in all local languages on microfilm at the British Library.

I'll give you an example. One of the most difficult dilemmas I had was with the longest final in the Open Era (the 3 hour, 50 minute 1975 German Open final between Tomanova and Sawamatsu). All of the German press in Hamburg, World Tennis (US), Tennis World (UK) and World of Tennis annual reported the score as 7-6 5-7 10-8, when I had only the actual draw sheet saying 6-4 6-7(5-7) 10-8, the DTB annual and Matchball Italy magazine saying something similar. It turned out to be latter after several phone calls to Germany and speaking with Miss Tomanova herself. Apparently the media on-site got bored with the match and its endless rallies on Centre Court so they went over to Court No. 1 to watch the men's doubles final and reported the score incorrectly from the press officer -- after the two ladies had shook hands!

Regarding the George McCall pro Tour, while this revolutionary at the time and was considered to feature the first pro "events", in speaking to BJK now, the players themselves considered them "one or two night exhibitions" and not proper tournaments - similar to the Gunze, Clairol, Lion Cup events in the 1970s, early 1980s. Players and media look back on them as exhibition/limited entry events, by today's standards. I had this quandry when I started at the WTA, whether to discount the money and titles (Navratilova agreed with me), but in talking to Steve Flink and Bud Collins extensively, it would mean changing too many numbers for Evert, Navratilova, Austin and King (who were chiefly affected) and it was agreed to leave the numbers as they were, while recognising the fact that they weren't legitimate tournaments, since none of them were even counted on the WTA rankings post 1975. As such they are classified as "Special Events" separately in my book.

One of the primary reasons I wanted to write my book now was to take advantage of the sources I had available to me (former journalist Gerry Williams was invaluable in clarifying Dewar Cup history, as was John Barrett and his lovely wife, not to mention all the other players and officials), while they were still alive and I could ask them first hand for their recollections. History at best can be confusing and its funny how rules evolve and adapt over time.
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