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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 2010, 12:07 AM Thread Starter
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Pam Shriver beating Graf in '88?

Here is a Youtube clip of Pam Shriver defeating Steffi Graf at the Virginia Slims Championship. It seems like for Pam to win, her opponent has to play her best.

Link to clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQuOfFUZSSI

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Last edited by Rollo; Dec 21st, 2010 at 04:18 PM.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 2010, 12:09 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Pam Shriver beating Graf in '88?

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthrea...0#post18864790

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 2010, 02:07 AM
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Re: Pam Shriver beating Graf in '88?

I was there at Madison Square Garden for that match, and I was thrilled with the outcome. Pam was one of (I believe) only 2 players to beat Graf that year! The other was Sabatini who did it twice, and I think both of those matches took place in Florida.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 2010, 03:15 PM
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Re: Pam Shriver beating Graf in '88?

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Originally Posted by Josus57 View Post
I was there at Madison Square Garden for that match, and I was thrilled with the outcome. Pam was one of (I believe) only 2 players to beat Graf that year! The other was Sabatini who did it twice, and I think both of those matches took place in Florida.
i love how pam hugged the ballboys at the end!!! she was sooooo deliriously happy. I do think that part of that delirium was that Pam had always carried her self-doubts to tragic ends in her matches, which she always seemed to lose in the clutch. I think of the Graf defeat at the USO in '85 (7-6 6-7 7-6) when she desperately wanted to reach the next round to play Martina, and actually the '85 Hilton Head she lost to Gabriela Sabatini (who in that moment was a total unknown and Pam felt humiliated losing to her, and probably never played on clay courts again!)

In fairness to Steffi, she was ill during the match & blowing her nose at every changeover etc... and it's not fair to say 'If she took the court, she was in good enough shape to win'/// you're not going to fail to play a match of that magnitude of the year end championships unless you really cant get out of bed. But Pam did a great job at seizing the opportunity...and she often did not pull off such a task!
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 20th, 2010, 02:18 PM
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Re: Pam Shriver beating Graf in '88?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josus57 View Post
I was there at Madison Square Garden for that match, and I was thrilled with the outcome. Pam was one of (I believe) only 2 players to beat Graf that year! The other was Sabatini who did it twice, and I think both of those matches took place in Florida.
Pam almost got her again earlier in the year at Boca Raton. I believe she had match points before Steffi pulled it out 7-6 in the 3rd. Steffi's groundstrokes were off that day to the point that she started serve and volleying against Pam. That's always a great tactic against Shriver anyway. But Steffi really had to stretch her game to beat her that day which was a credit to Pam.

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 20th, 2010, 03:00 PM
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Re: Pam Shriver beating Graf in '88?

pam played great in the whole tournament (didn't she defeat chrissie in the previous round?) which was outstanding for pam since she would only beat chris 3 times and chris was playing well in 1988. however, even watching this match vs graf on youtube, it's hard to believe pam won, i would have thought steffi's would have held serve easily, with her powerful serve and knocking off groundstroke winners left and right even before shriver had the chance to come in on anything and everything and then on shriver's serve..... i would have thought steffi could handle it ( i mean she could take martina's serve)?

i do think the "indoor carpet surface" was a huge factor. however, pam gave steffi a huge scare on hard courts at boca raton too that year, which i find truly amazing!
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 20th, 2010, 04:39 PM
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Re: Pam Shriver beating Graf in '88?

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Originally Posted by HanaFanGA View Post
Pam almost got her again earlier in the year at Boca Raton. I believe she had match points before Steffi pulled it out 7-6 in the 3rd. Steffi's groundstrokes were off that day to the point that she started serve and volleying against Pam. That's always a great tactic against Shriver anyway. But Steffi really had to stretch her game to beat her that day which was a credit to Pam.
really??!!!!! i would love to see that.... i've never seen steffi serve & volley.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 2010, 02:31 PM
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Re: Pam Shriver beating Graf in '88?

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really??!!!!! i would love to see that.... i've never seen steffi serve & volley.
I didn't see the match either and only read reports about it later. But Steffi took the "damn it all approach" when her strokes were off as Shriver was extracting error after error from her. She was going in deep to Steffi's forehand robbing her of time. Shriver's forehand may have looked like a shovel shot, but when she got behind it and drove it with just slight underspin it had the same effect that a crisply hit backhand approach would have.

If you'll recall thats how Chris got Steffi into trouble the next year at Boca probing her backhand and then nailing a deep ball to Steffi's forehand corner forcing her to open up on her late backswing and miss it. Pam and Chris went about it in different ways, but the result was the same.

In this match with Pam, Steffi's serve was working so why not make Pam stretch wide and come in to volley a high return? That definitely took Steffi out of her comfort zone but to her credit she won the match that way. Steffi used the same tactic in the Wimby SF so the same tactic that worked on a slow hard court turned out to be even better vs. Shriver on a grass court.

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 2010, 04:20 PM
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Re: Pam Shriver beating Graf in '88?

I added a link to a clip of the match in the first post. Exciting stuff-Pammy's slice forehand was producing some wicked sidespin on the carpet!
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 2010, 07:26 PM
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Re: Pam Shriver beating Graf in '88?

Thanx! Great stuff, I'd only seen some HL of this particular match and enjoyed every minute this time. Steffi was a little off clearly that day, but Shriver could finally held her nerve on a big occasion and got a win for the ages. Sorry for her (in a way) that Sabatini was too on fire in the final for Pam to win the whole thing.

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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 2010, 10:59 PM
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Re: Pam Shriver beating Graf in '88?

Quote:
Originally Posted by daze11 View Post
i love how pam hugged the ballboys at the end!!! she was sooooo deliriously happy. I do think that part of that delirium was that Pam had always carried her self-doubts to tragic ends in her matches, which she always seemed to lose in the clutch. I think of the Graf defeat at the USO in '85 (7-6 6-7 7-6) when she desperately wanted to reach the next round to play Martina, and actually the '85 Hilton Head she lost to Gabriela Sabatini (who in that moment was a total unknown and Pam felt humiliated losing to her, and probably never played on clay courts again!)

In fairness to Steffi, she was ill during the match & blowing her nose at every changeover etc... and it's not fair to say 'If she took the court, she was in good enough shape to win'/// you're not going to fail to play a match of that magnitude of the year end championships unless you really cant get out of bed. But Pam did a great job at seizing the opportunity...and she often did not pull off such a task!
Having read Passing Shots by Pam, I know those Graf and Sabatini losses in 1985 hit her hard. She was about 23/24 but they were 15/16 and beating her. She already had Chris and Martina at 29/30 beating her. She was right in the middle but drowned out by more talented people either side. I do wish Pam had snuck a Slam in among it all but she can be proud of this win, and her legendary doubles record

Last edited by raquel; Dec 23rd, 2010 at 11:38 PM.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 2010, 11:54 PM
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Re: Pam Shriver beating Graf in '88?

Famous victory. Been wanting to see clips of this match for some time. Thanks for posting.

I can't believe Graf won Golden grand slam and lost here.

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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old Dec 26th, 2010, 04:13 PM
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Re: Pam Shriver beating Graf in '88?

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Originally Posted by raquel View Post
Having read Passing Shots by Pam, I know those Graf and Sabatini losses in 1985 hit her hard. She was about 23/24 but they were 15/16 and beating her. She already had Chris and Martina at 29/30 beating her. She was right in the middle but drowned out by more talented people either side. I do wish Pam had snuck a Slam in among it all but she can be proud of this win, and her legendary doubles record
And she had people like Mandlikova, Goolagong, and Austin who were better than her too. And even Jaeger perhaps before the burnout/retirement. She never ended a year ranked higher than #4, not even at #3.

I agree though that when very young Graf and Sabatini started beating her in 1985 is when she realized she was never going to make it all the way.
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 4th, 2011, 05:22 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Pam Shriver beating Graf in '88?

[QUOTE=HanaFanGA;18881735]If you'll recall thats how Chris got Steffi into trouble the next year at Boca probing her backhand and then nailing a deep ball to Steffi's forehand corner forcing her to open up on her late backswing and miss it. Pam and Chris went about it in different ways, but the result was the same.[QUOTE]

Both of them played Kerry Melville Reid but not to the extent that Chris did. Kerry like to run around that forehand but not the extent like Steffi did particularly off the serve. Kerry didn't have the power like Steffi but it was strong from the wood.

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