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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 2007, 01:50 PM
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Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4

well, not to take away from monica's win in this case, but 1989 is the year chris decided not even to play the french open because she hated being on clay so much with these girls & their moonballs.

the other clay event chris played in 89 was when she lost far worse to Barbara Paulus 6-4 6-1 in the 2R of Geneva. So--as that is not a sign of a rising star of tennis history making an early impression--so this win by Monica shouldn't be too drummed up above what it was. (even though monica was quoted later that year as saying something to the effect of, "I had to take a few weeks off after that match because I was soo tired from all the hapiness I felt." )
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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 2007, 02:50 PM
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Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4

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well, not to take away from monica's win in this case, but 1989 is the year chris decided not even to play the french open because she hated being on clay so much with these girls & their moonballs.

the other clay event chris played in 89 was when she lost far worse to Barbara Paulus 6-4 6-1 in the 2R of Geneva. So--as that is not a sign of a rising star of tennis history making an early impression--so this win by Monica shouldn't be too drummed up above what it was. (even though monica was quoted later that year as saying something to the effect of, "I had to take a few weeks off after that match because I was soo tired from all the hapiness I felt." )
I have to respectfully disagree with this commment. Paulus defeated Evert in the 2nd round of Geneva, Seles defeated Evert in the final of Houston. HUGE difference right there. It does, indeed, take something special to put it all together against an all time great, on the surface where she is the all time greatest and take your first title in your first final of only your 4th professional event. That is a big deal and it was duly noted as such at that time. Granted, Evert wasn't playing ripe tennis in that match, but I think that credit should be given where it was due.
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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 2007, 03:10 PM
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Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4

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I have to respectfully disagree with this commment. Paulus defeated Evert in the 2nd round of Geneva, Seles defeated Evert in the final of Houston. HUGE difference right there. It does, indeed, take something special to put it all together against an all time great, on the surface where she is the all time greatest and take your first title in your first final of only your 4th professional event. That is a big deal and it was duly noted as such at that time. Granted, Evert wasn't playing ripe tennis in that match, but I think that credit should be given where it was due.
That's true, a final is more pressure, but barbara paulus and anne minter, who also took chris out round 1, would've felt a lot of pressure to beat this all-time great too, and they both beat her worse than seles did. plus, again, chris chose to skip paris, she wasn't injured...so clay was at that time known to be not-her-favorite surface anymore.

But it IS a victory and a big one! I just meant it was NOT to the level of chris beating margaret court in 1970, as court had just won the grand slam!! At least, that's how I see it.
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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 2007, 03:20 PM
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Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4

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I have to respectfully disagree with this commment. Paulus defeated Evert in the 2nd round of Geneva, Seles defeated Evert in the final of Houston. HUGE difference right there. It does, indeed, take something special to put it all together against an all time great, on the surface where she is the all time greatest and take your first title in your first final of only your 4th professional event. That is a big deal and it was duly noted as such at that time. Granted, Evert wasn't playing ripe tennis in that match, but I think that credit should be given where it was due.
I think that credit is always due when one beats a great champion. Especially when its a young kid. Usually this shows an up and comer (in Monica and Tracy's case it did -- and Chris' too).

Chris beat Margaret Court when she was 15, and many many people said at the time that it was partially because Margaret was tired. But still, Chris was able to take her, and it was a sign of things to come.

With that said, its still the fact that Chris was 34, and kind of in the mental frame of mind that Kim Clijsters is right now -- no longer fully engaged /involved or dedicated to the tour. When players beat Clijsters now -- it still means a great deal (because she's such an awesome player), but we all know that it doens't mean as much as it would last year or the year before.

Does this take away from Seles' win? Not in the least, but to me, this win isn't the same as Tracy Austin's wins over Chris! In any case, according to her biography, this win boosted Monica's belief in herself at 15 (I didn't buy the bio because the books I already had in hand were up to $40 from this used bookstore - so I can't tell you page numbers).

Monica said that Chris was very gracious, and how much she admired her and it sounds like Monica considers Chris a friend. Also, it sounds like Chris gave all that had in the moment (her very best of all time effort or not) in the match. So, the win means even more becaues Chris didn't lay down and die in the match, she fought as much as she could it seems (another loss I've gotta force myself to watch).

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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 2007, 01:40 AM
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Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4

I think the most telling was Chris made Monica pay for the weak serves at the U.S. Open. I really thought Chris was better off playing in faster surfaces than clay against Monica. She was really laboring at that tournament. and it shouldn't have been close.

Chris didn't mess around in the U.S. Open. Monica can say what she wants about not being the one to be the villain to end her career but Chris went for her shots a little more off her serve. Because in the next year's Australian, Monica started to her serves hard (the first serve).

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post #21 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 2007, 03:44 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4

Does anyone know who else Monica beat in Houston? I would love to know the draw?

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post #22 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 2007, 07:47 AM
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Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4

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Does anyone know who else Monica beat in Houston? I would love to know the draw?
R32
Chris Evert (1) d. Karen Schimper 6-1 6-2
Kathy Rinaldi d. Michelle Torres 7-5 2-6 6-3
Gretchen Magers d. Iva Budarova 4-6 6-4 6-3
Katrina Adams d. Donna Faber 3-6 7-6 6-3
Lori McNeil (4) d. Elly Hakami 4-6 6-3 6-4
Laxmi Poruri (bye)
Susan Sloane (bye)
Angeliki Kanellopoulou d. Kate Gompert 6-3 6-2
Kimberly Kessaris (bye)
Elise Burgin d. Isabel Cueto 4-6 6-4 6-4
Hu Na d. Maureen Drake 6-2 7-6
Carrie Cunningham d. Katerina Maleeva (3) 4-6 7-5 6-2
Monica Seles d. Mary Lou Daniels 6-2 6-3
Amy Frazier d. Andrea Holikova 6-2 6-2
Andrea Temesvari d. Mary Pierce 6-2 6-3
Zina Garrison (2) d. Mariaan de Swardt 6-2 7-5

R16
Evert (1) d. Rinaldi 6-0 6-3
Magers d. Adams 6-4 6-2
McNeil (4) d. Poruri 7-6 6-4
Sloane d. Kanellopoulou 6-4 3-6 7-5
Kessaris d. Burgin 7-6 6-1
Cunningham d. Na 2-6 6-2 6-4
Seles d. Frazier 5-7 6-4 6-2
Temesvari d. Garrison (2) 6-3 6-7 6-2

QF
Evert (1) d. Magers 7-6 6-3
Sloane d. McNeil 6-2 6-4
Cunningham d. Kessaris (w/o)
Seles d. Temesvari 6-2 7-5

SF
Evert (1) d. Sloane 7-6 6-2
Seles d. Cunningham 6-0 6-1

F
Seles d. Evert (1) 3-6 6-1 6-4

Best left-right combination by a German (and that includes Max Schmeling): Steffi Graf. All she did in 1987 was knock Navratilova out of #1 and try to knock Evert out of the sport. (Mike Lupica in "The Best and Worst of Tennis in 1987", World Tennis)

"A couple of years ago, we nicknamed Steffi Graf's forehand 'Jaws'. And that music would go perfectly when she starts running in to the net, swarming on that little ball." (JoAnne Russell, during the 1988 Wimbledon final between Graf and Navratilova)
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post #23 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 2007, 07:19 PM
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Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4

It's rumored her match vs. Temesvári was a lot closer then the score indicates. In the 2nd set Andrea had all kind of chances, she didn't believed she could lose to a 15-year-old, she almost cried during the match.
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post #24 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 2007, 03:51 AM
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Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4

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Chris Evert had problems with Monica Seles' serve in 1989. Even though it wasn't hard hit, the spin of the ball gave Evert tremendous trouble.
She had some angles as well at times. especially on the ad court.

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post #25 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 2007, 08:11 AM
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Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4

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It's rumored her match vs. Temesvári was a lot closer then the score indicates. In the 2nd set Andrea had all kind of chances, she didn't believed she could lose to a 15-year-old, she almost cried during the match.
As I recall, Andrea had worked herself back to some decent form. Tommystar, when did she finally give it up?

It'sfunny to see Andrea and Mary Pierce's name in the same draw, let alone palying each other- in my mind they are from 2 different eras.
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post #26 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 2007, 01:13 PM
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Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4

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It'sfunny to see Andrea and Mary Pierce's name in the same draw, let alone palying each other- in my mind they are from 2 different eras.
It's sort of like how I feel surprised when I read that Jennifer Capriati and Lindsay Davenport are actually the same age. Because of Capriati's debut at a very young age and Davenport's not hitting the big time until she was in her early 20s, I always think of them as belonging to two different eras, with Capriati being a part of the Graf/Seles/Sabatini/ASV era, and Davenport the Hingis/WilliamsX2 era. (sort of)

Best left-right combination by a German (and that includes Max Schmeling): Steffi Graf. All she did in 1987 was knock Navratilova out of #1 and try to knock Evert out of the sport. (Mike Lupica in "The Best and Worst of Tennis in 1987", World Tennis)

"A couple of years ago, we nicknamed Steffi Graf's forehand 'Jaws'. And that music would go perfectly when she starts running in to the net, swarming on that little ball." (JoAnne Russell, during the 1988 Wimbledon final between Graf and Navratilova)
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post #27 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 2007, 01:22 PM
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Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4

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As I recall, Andrea had worked herself back to some decent form. Tommystar, when did she finally give it up?

It'sfunny to see Andrea and Mary Pierce's name in the same draw, let alone palying each other- in my mind they are from 2 different eras.

I remember watching the newspapers eagerly (the things we did pre-internet) looking for Andrea's scores. Because I wanted her to regain her form and get back into the top 15 or so.

I think it was in 1989 that she got to the Mahwah final and lost respectably to Steffi, 7-5, 6-2. Unfortunately, all I ever heard about her in 1990 was that she was wearing Martina's clothing line. Then, I saw her lose badly to Capriati at the 1991 French and badly to Steffi at the US Open later that year. I kept that US Open match because she did hit a few big topspin forehand rippers that she was famous for. But she was definitely well beyond her peak years in terms of confidence and movement.

Andrea is still one of my fav blond bombshells.

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post #28 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 2007, 02:42 PM
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Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4

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It's sort of like how I feel surprised when I read that Jennifer Capriati and Lindsay Davenport are actually the same age. Because of Capriati's debut at a very young age and Davenport's not hitting the big time until she was in her early 20s, I always think of them as belonging to two different eras, with Capriati being a part of the Graf/Seles/Sabatini/ASV era, and Davenport the Hingis/WilliamsX2 era. (sort of)
I totally know where you're coming from with this!

HanaFanGA-Yes, I remember Andrea reaching the Mahwah Final and being surprised at the scoreline. I never got to see Andrea play, either in person or on TV. All I know of her was what I read. I never realised she was playing as late as 91!

I always felt Kathy Rinaldi was the best out of the Temesavri/ Horvath/ Bassett/ Bonder/ Gadusek school of 80's Chrissie clones who briefly made the top 10. Maybe Andrea had the best potential out of all of them?
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post #29 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 2007, 03:10 PM
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Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4

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I totally know where you're coming from with this!

HanaFanGA-Yes, I remember Andrea reaching the Mahwah Final and being surprised at the scoreline. I never got to see Andrea play, either in person or on TV. All I know of her was what I read. I never realised she was playing as late as 91!

I always felt Kathy Rinaldi was the best out of the Temesavri/ Horvath/ Bassett/ Bonder/ Gadusek school of 80's Chrissie clones who briefly made the top 10. Maybe Andrea had the best potential out of all of them?
I saw Temesvari play in the mid-90's at Amelia Island. She was playing doubles. She was fairly effective though not real mobile. She was playing vs. Spirlea and they got into a vicious staring match.

Rinaldi was probably the strongest candidate for a top ten career. After a couple of two really good years, she was sidetracked by an injury that took the life out of her singles career. I think she might have had several years in the top ten. Rinaldi seemed to have a good tennis mind.

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post #30 of 35 (permalink) Old Apr 27th, 2007, 09:34 PM
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Re: Houston 1989: Seles d. Evert 3-6, 6-1, 6-4

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As I recall, Andrea had worked herself back to some decent form. Tommystar, when did she finally give it up?

It'sfunny to see Andrea and Mary Pierce's name in the same draw, let alone palying each other- in my mind they are from 2 different eras.
I don't know excatly, I started follow tennis later.
As I know she worked back herself quite well in 1989 she ended in the top 40, she kept around the top 50 the next half year. When her Mahwah points came off she felt back around No. 140-150. After that she lost many times in the early rounds, had injuries again. At the first half of 93 she fought back to the top 100 around 80es, then slip back in the rangkings at last for a short period Temesvári returned to the top 100 at spring 95, after she won the ITF-tourney in Budapest.

Andrea and Mary did play regulary doubles in 1994, they reached the finals at the Paris Indoors, semis at Houston, and many QFs. They get on well togeother, a few years ago Mary visited Andrea in Budapest, spend a few days here in incognito.
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