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post #332 of (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 2013, 07:26 AM
country flag Ashi
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Re: Violence against women, including rape

Originally Posted by bulava View Post
Let me emphasize for the last time that I care less what others think about us except I cogitate on prejudice and propaganda against India/China/Russia etc. I engage confidently because I'm well versed with what's happening in many countries not just in our homeland.

You just reiterate what I said. You feel the western media is prejudiced against our country. Western media is accessible to the world, hence you care about how others/the world views us. No brainer.

This stuff you should ponder as it shows present situation (vote bank)

IKR. But this is the violence against women thread. Colour me sheepish for falling for and calling out a poster on his/her religious intolerance.

This isn't applicable because I never say such things.

But you didn't call him out on that...and I did. If you feel that due to this I am biased then so be it.
Also you said I'm not defending him or anything..... it comes across that way. But I'll take your word for it.

As I said earlier that it's not about me; once again you avoid point:
You mentioned yourself in that post. So . Aren't you a Hindu pilgrim too? Your standards of accomodation could be different to some else's.

For everything? Strangely you defend a non-performing and over-hyped Government, also sure of them? Next, you solely base your defense on a Wiki article. Now I'll share about a few facts which you can't get on Wiki or Google:

a) Top accommodation (tin sheets, not tents) at Baltal (base camp) is ~1500/- for two/day - not affordable to many.
b) Forget about tents - over crowded and unhygienic conditions
c) Food in the camp not worthy, though hot served.
d) Helicopter services? They are NOT free. About 5,500/- per head (in 2007) or $100 so ~11,000 for two. Truth is this service is 'premium' to 95% pilgrims so most go by hiring local Kashmiris (for aged) or walk in groups for Kilometers to reach the destination.
e) Most importantly, death rate at the camp and/or en route to shrine is poorly managed due to lack of better medicare and staff.
f) Less said is better on protection. Even after many hardships, pilgrims visit the shrine by literally risking their lives.

Please link me where you got these facts just to balance my ignorance out.
What would you like them to improve on? Why don't you do your part in asking them to improve the conditions. If I remember correctly, you are an IIT graduate returned to India. You seem to be quite influential. Everyone(including me) blame the government but rarely look into the mirror.

Seems like your view is similar to this.

Yet I can't gauge as to what you exactly want. The government spending 4000 crores on Hindu pilgrims in proportion to their population or complete abolishment of any subsidy for all communities? Or the Goverment to stop doing this subsidy business to garner votes which IMO is naive but completely on principle.
After 'reading' about the facts I'll give you that they need to improve. But then they have to improve on the numerous pilgrimage sites for Hindu pilgrims. Don't most famous sites/temples have their own trusts due to benefactors like the Sabrimala trust. Do they contribute to the facilities of the pilgrims?

This paragraph sums it up and not only for the Hindu community.
From tangible evidence India is a nation with 80% Hindu population, but why they allow this partiality? Why can’t a country with 800 million can’t raise voice for their privilege at least rather voice for imbalance? The outcome, this is the unity we had in our society as being segregated by numerous castes and having notorious leaders for each castes for their selfish needs. When there is a common problem, no one will unite to raise his or her voice. This is the reason 18% minority but with a strong unity wins. Currently the so called “80% Hindus is a majority in the minority in power as well as unity.” I recall the words of the renowned freedom fighter in Tamil nadu V.O.C’s excellent quotes in 1908”We are 300 million people in this nation, if we are united and if we just blow off our breathe those white crooks will flew away from this nation, can we realize that might and do so?” For instigating this motivational speech against British, he was given lifelong imprisonment. Nevertheless, until now, we could not have such a unity in place, if in place our freedom would have been achieved quite earlier. We should come out of the arbitrary clouds and shackles of religion, caste, and sects and be united as INDIAN. No society can prosperous if we are disintegrated on the evil grounds of caste and sects.

“A disintegrated society weakens the entire nation, where it lets the way for invaders and internal disaster”

And the less said the better about the psuedo secular UPA government & the blatantly Hindutva driven BJP government. I share your derision of vote bank politics.

After reading the way you put up your defense, one could easily deduce that nothing more could be done and it's their fate. You could have done better than that.

But you also seem? to suggest that the poor Indian muslims should be resigned to their fate of never going on the Haj(which is mandatory once in a lifetime) because it costs the goverment so much. And you will deny this, but it certainly comes across as that IMO.

Irrespective of religion, one can't equate mass pilgrimages (Melas or Dargas or anything) to most holy pilgrimage. It's a flawed logic.
Hmm, logic seems to be the need of the hour. Can you elaborate on this? I don't know the difference.

You thought I make things out of thin air? I knew this from a good time. Read this A.P. Govt. G.O. (State Minority Finance Corporation) letter (2008):

The tour will be aided by Govt. of A.P. to the extent of only Rs.20,000 per head (equal to Haj) and the balance to be borne by the applicant.

Then late CM and his family members (2004-09) are culpable for their active involvement in religious conversions under the false pretext of alleviating the poverty. He toyed with Caste quotas. He was responsible for 5% quota for Muslims; High Court threw away the case but pending in the Supreme Court. Whatever happened and happening is rubbish. It's criminal.

Offer holy pilgrim discount to every community else stop it for all. My take is NO need for anyone because this country can't survive economically from huge vote-bank appeasing subsidies, schemes etc since many parties are playing with budgets every year (national and states level) on various Scam/Ponzi schemes. Latest one is Cash Transfer farce to derive votes.

Select goverments do this to garner votes during election time which you reiterated.
I know for a fact that no such scheme exists in most states. Try again.
It costs around 60,000 Rs. per individual to visit the holy land.

I mentioned you because you threading on a similar path like his. You may reply any no. of times but present it better balance, perspective and facts but not by bias; try not to dodge any point/topic no matter if it doesn't match to your taste or liking. I may not like some things but I can't run away from reality. That's it.

False. I don't approve his or your stand.

Reality? I am not the one living in the past with bigoted religious views on either Hindus/Muslims( or any other community for that matter).
I call out anyone who feels/propagates this view.
I'm cool with that. You feel I'm biased but then again IMO your first few posts on this matter sounded as if you were an apologist for his/her blatant intolerance. Since you state that this is not the case I'll take your word for it.

I quote this para from a bookmarked article on Indian Economy:

Poverty is a challenge that’s becoming increasingly important in relationship to the alarming rate of new births. This implies that ever more rapid change, or birth control policies like the ‘One Child’ policy in China, are needed to reduce the numbers affected by poverty in the vast Indian economy.

Note: they didn't drag Religion, Caste etc into the scope. It should be same benchmark for every major issue. Hence my stand is quite clear:

No more appeasement. Same Rules, Law, and Justice for every Indian Citizen irrespective of Religion or Caste or Gender

By saying that I conclude now. If you wish you reply then go ahead but I won't be visiting this forum until March/April. Thank you very much.

I concur . Could you link me to this article? If only our politics was devoid of votebank & dynasty.
Religious bias is what I'm against and in any form.
Thank you for your time.

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Last edited by Ashi; Jan 19th, 2013 at 07:32 AM.
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