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post #4620 of (permalink) Old Dec 16th, 2012, 03:46 PM
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Re: On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen

Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
I would say that you've simply failed to read some of the statements and dogma by many Communist political and ideological leaders.They've made it clear,VERBATIM,even in simple terms,that atheism is superior to theism and that the latter,and even its supporters,should be eradicated ASAP for the general good while the former should be promoted for the betterment of self.I'm not debating whether or not that stance is true,only re-affirming that Communist diehards have often unequivocally believed in ramming atheism down everyone's throats just as religious fanatics aim to do with their chosen faith.
I can't see where I would have suggested otherwise?

I am well aware that atheism has its own fanatics. Some of them would gladly eradicate all forms of religions. This doesn't change the clear distinctions between atheism and religions. But we have already discussed this issue and our positions seem irreconcilable. So, I'll leave it at that.

Originally Posted by bruce goose View Post
With all the movements you cited a few posts back(atheism,humanism,socialism,evolutionism and capitalism),the notable difference exists between rank-and-file supporters and the LEADERS who are at the forefront of the movements.The former will often tolerate dissenting viewpoints and the latter will NOT....If you look back at your dictionary definition of religion,there are only a couple elements lacking in the dogma of the diehards.They don't cite any supernatural deity,but they DO forcefully claim that no such deity exists(with the exception of capitalists and the more moderate socialists--moderate as compared with militant communism),and with THAT statement on supposed spiritual truth,the distinction from religion is largely semantic.The biggest disparity is in the lack of rituals and similar ceremonies in the ideological movements.In other respects,they fulfill your definition by claiming to know what our purpose in life should be,how we should behave towards fellow human beings,and what sort of world we should have...even professing that allegiance to the doctrine will lead to utter personal self-realization...not that dissimilar from the religious concept of salvation.
Those are very interesting thoughts...even if you have no chance to convince me that a political movement can be assimilated to a religion But the comparison is relevant

Just a brief return in Russia.

Although communist leaders have committed crimes in the name of a political doctrine which was qualified as atheist, the population of Russia has never ceased to believe. Its churches were closed, they were forbidden to practice any form of religion, but the citizens remained believers. Even the people who proclaimed themselves atheists often continued to believe in God. Therefore, they were not atheists.

In 1990, the freedom of religion was promulgated in the Russian Federation and most citizens embraced again a religion. Claiming that Russians are atheists is either a sign of ignorance or intellectual dishonesty.

Nowadays, most of them are believers. Here's the result of a survey:

"Russia is a multi-ethnic and multi-faith nation. Orthodox Christianity is Russia's largest religion with 75% of the population belonging to the Orthodox Christian denomination. Islam is professed by 5% of the population. Catholicism, Protestantism, Judaism and Buddhism are professed by 1% of the population each. Other religious denominations represent 1% of the population, while 8% consider themselves atheists".

And among the 8% of atheists, how many are "real atheists"?
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