Now that we can avoid cluttering the main tennis threads,you can all ponder the intellectual capacity of the genius who thought it was a 'bombshell' that Clijsters wanted to have more children: "REALLY?
I thought Kim HATED kids.Why didn't anyone tell me otherwise?
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bruce goose
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On the Concept of Irony w/ Continual Reference to Caro, the #1 Sunshine Queen
Now that we can avoid cluttering the main tennis threads,you can all ponder the intellectual capacity of the genius who thought it was a 'bombshell' that Clijsters wanted to have more children: "REALLY?I thought Kim HATED kids.Why didn't anyone tell me otherwise?..."
Huh? What's wrong with wanting to meet Barack Obama? I'd love to as well...pretty much every German wants to. Before the election there have been polls here and 92% of all Germans would have voted for him, the highest in any country polled I think.Not sure what kind of political propaganda is popular in Germany,but Annika Beck brought embarrassment upon her intellectual rating just recently.She was asked what person in the world she'd like to meet,and one of her choices,Steffi Graf,made perfect sense....for her OTHER choice,she didn't pick some brave human rights crusader...or a talented musician...or a brilliant writer....or an heroic champion for the poor...or some great political leader...or ANYone who had bettered the world in any way: She chose Barack Obama;Saca la cabeza de tu culo,chica aleman mareada!....I hope that's not any reflection of the modern educational system in Germany as I have affection for your country due to my familial ancestry
He's far, far more popular than any German politician and I don't see what's wrong with that. So Annika's answer is neither surprising nor wrong in any shape or form...I would have been shocked if she said she wants to meet Angela Merkel :lol:
Well,I can't speak intelligently about either Merkel or Joachim Gauck,but I'd much rather meet my OWN president,whether a good leader or bad,than some incompetent buffoon from some OTHER country.If aye DID seek an audience with a foreign president,it would be someone who had actually accomplished something....of course,if you consider crippling an already-weak economy by running up a 7 TRILLION-dollar deficit in less than 4 years,then o-BUM-a is your guy:lol:
Why is he so popular in Germany?Did he promise a blow job to every German male in return for tariff concessions(and perhaps a vibrator for all the women?):lol:?My guess is that Germans don't really pay close attention to what's happening in the US,and I can't blame them cuz it's not their country,but maybe they see him as some kind of hero who will impose pure-hearted,altruistic European-modelled socialism on the greedy,shallow gringos....Jimmie,if you had seen so many of your countrymen gunned down by automatic weapons...and you KNEW that the piece-of-shit American president had made a deal with arms dealers to not monitor foreign assault-weapons sales(i.e.,to our wealthier narcos who have plenty of money to buy them),then you might not be so quick to accept the bullshit that emanates from that vile fraud's propaganda machine
This wasn't a personal attack at all on you,Jimmie,but it's more personal for us in Mexico because it's not just political rhetoric...it's about life-and-death issues,as I indicate above...am off to work so will read any response later,but thank you for your input
Okay, you obviously have huge issues with him and I don't really want to get into that, just to explain why Germans like Barack Obama so much:
Due to our history, far right & conservative political views are very, very unpopular here. For example, Germany is pretty much the only big European country that does not have a far-right political party of any significance. The only such party that exists is a miserable outcast nobody votes for and if you'd say publicly that you do people would probably spit on you. Rightfully so since they`re disgusting scumbags.
Issues like abortion, gay rights etc. are non-issues here, people don't understand why Americans are making fuss about it. So if Barack Obama comes out supporting gay marriage it's not some kind of sensation, people simply view him as sane...and that's why he's so popular here. G W Bush was loathed in Germany so people simply enjoy having a US President they can relate to. Another thing is that Germany isn't a very religious country, religion plays absolutely no role in politics... another reason why conservative Bible-quoting American politicians are mostly seen as weirdo clowns here and people prefer Obama.
As far as German's not knowing much about US politics, the media coverage of the elections was almost absurdly extensive here. There was months of coverage of all the primaries and five different channels covered the elections through the night. People were already complaining that it's too much. That dosen't mean that there aren't misconceptions about US politics...many people still fail to understand that American politics are much more right on the spectrum than German politics... the ruling conservative party in Germany would still be considered part of the Democratic left wing in the US. But still, Obama comes closest to what people consider a sane and "normal" politician.
I see that you have very specific issues with his politics that I can't comment on, you have to understand that blasting a 18-year old German girl for not sharing the same sentiments is somewhat silly. She simply see's him for what he is, an interesting and inspirational man and even though I don't agree with all his policies I would surely like to meet the man.
Due to our history, far right & conservative political views are very, very unpopular here. For example, Germany is pretty much the only big European country that does not have a far-right political party of any significance. The only such party that exists is a miserable outcast nobody votes for and if you'd say publicly that you do people would probably spit on you. Rightfully so since they`re disgusting scumbags.
Issues like abortion, gay rights etc. are non-issues here, people don't understand why Americans are making fuss about it. So if Barack Obama comes out supporting gay marriage it's not some kind of sensation, people simply view him as sane...and that's why he's so popular here. G W Bush was loathed in Germany so people simply enjoy having a US President they can relate to. Another thing is that Germany isn't a very religious country, religion plays absolutely no role in politics... another reason why conservative Bible-quoting American politicians are mostly seen as weirdo clowns here and people prefer Obama.
As far as German's not knowing much about US politics, the media coverage of the elections was almost absurdly extensive here. There was months of coverage of all the primaries and five different channels covered the elections through the night. People were already complaining that it's too much. That dosen't mean that there aren't misconceptions about US politics...many people still fail to understand that American politics are much more right on the spectrum than German politics... the ruling conservative party in Germany would still be considered part of the Democratic left wing in the US. But still, Obama comes closest to what people consider a sane and "normal" politician.
I see that you have very specific issues with his politics that I can't comment on, you have to understand that blasting a 18-year old German girl for not sharing the same sentiments is somewhat silly. She simply see's him for what he is, an interesting and inspirational man and even though I don't agree with all his policies I would surely like to meet the man.
Thank you for your intelligent,reasoned reply,Jimmie
First off,I really wasn't angry with Annika;as you know,I have a tendency to exaggerate a bit sometimes
You confirmed much of what I suspected;I know that Germans aren't a stupid people by any stretch(my great-great-etc. grandfather was a wagon-maker in Prussia,btw).It's more a case of what you described: They hold hatred for the conservative elements in US society,so they support whoever opposes such philosophy...and don't really pay close attention to whether or not he's honest or remotely competent...it doesn't matter too much,of course,since Germans have their own issues to worry about without focusing on American politics.
I'll agree that his story is superficially inspirational when you study the history of oppression of *****-Americans,and the guy truly is an amazing speaker,one of the best I've ever seen at brainwashing the feeble-minded.However,when you strip away the glossy show,he's as empty as that guy behind the curtain in the Wizard of Oz.
You're a smart fellow,Jimmie,so Common Sense would tell you that,when you already have an economy in crisis,you don't run up a 7 trillion dollar spending deficit when you have NO HOPE of ever paying off such a staggering debt.It's simply a matter of time before even the PRC cuts off the broke US from any more sugar-daddy loans...and then the 'great empire' will suffer an embarrassing,total collapse and become a larger version of Greece...but the shit bag doesn't care,though,cuz he's financially set for life and he'll probably move overseas when things REALLY deteriorate:lol:
Though there's a sort of dark pleasure in watching the gringos destroy themselves on a grand scale,reality soon sets in as I know that,unless we develop a self-sufficient economy here in Mexico,we'll suffer awful ripple effects when the US falls
Okay,on a lighter note,here's a video classic from my culture to all of yours(English subtitles included)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIiXf1rg6h8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIiXf1rg6h8
That's not only true when it comes to Germany. Throughout Europe the vast majority preferred Obama over Romney by huge margins - probably by 80% or more in most countries. Republicans are viewed by many as dangerous, ignorant and heartless fruitcakes with a gun in one hand and a bible in the other. Strangely enough in most of Europe itself right wing parties are winning election after election, although it seems to be slowly turning around now.
But the last election in Belgium was also won by a right wing seperatist party even though a survey showed that the people who voted for them totally disagree with their political agenda. All this because the party leader is a charismatic figure who did very well in a daily quizz show over here where he won them over with his wicked sense of humour. Not much of a basis to vote for someone, but a clear demonstration of the fact that more often than not people have no idea what the're actually voting for.
Not only in Europe. In Quebec we have the same feeling about the Republicans. And beyond the feeling, every time they accede to power they ruin the States and trigger wars everywhere. Obama is not my idol, but the World is better off with him than with his opponents. That being said, Obama's comments suggest that he's almost as religious as Republicans. The separation of Church and State is pure utopia in this country.
This is interesting. As well as Jimmie's comments on Germany. I always enjoy hearing about foreign policy.
That being said, and even if I agree that many people "have no idea what the're actually voting for" as you state, one must recognize that voting often involves difficult choices that go beyond superficial logic. In other words, we must give the benefit of the doubt to the voters, because behind what may seem to be a thoughtless choice, often lay a thoughtful and carefully considered choice. The problem is that the voter often have to choose between the "lesser of two evils". So he does not vote in consideration of his values ​​and opinions, but to avoid the worst.
For example, here in Quebec, we currently have a choice between a well established center-left party promoting Quebec sovereignty (PQ). A center-right party, also well established (PLQ). Or a newly formed right-wing party (from an economic POV)(CAQ). Despite repeated requests from the population, we don't have proportional representation, so every votes for minor parties are a waste. This already bring a problem, because the voter who would vote for the Green Party or for a left-wing party often stay at home since he knows that his vote has no impact.
Another major problem is that the center-left voter who doesn't want the independence is not represented. So, he will either stay at home, or he may vote for the center-right party, despite his socialist view.
But where things get complicated really is in the details. For example, the new right-wing party is essentially composed of young inexperienced politicians, often without qualifications or diplomas and even the party leaders are not particularly bright. So, even if you share their views, would you really vote for them?
The PQ has a nationalist program based on the protection of Quebec culture and language that does not appeals to immigrants and Anglophones and is seen by some (even French speakers)as racist and intolerant (well yes, the desire to protect our culture is apparently racist
It's normal for everyone else but us). As I have said, if you're not sovereignists, or if you don't like their nationalist program, you'll vote for another party, even if you like their center-left ideas.Finally, the PLQ (who has formed the government for the last 10 years)is currently strongly suspected of corruption and seems to have had disturbing relationships with the Mafia. Its deputies are also seen as arrogants and they have showed no respect for the population, its wishes and concerns. Would you vote for them?
To complete the portrait, none of these parties has proven to be particularly competent in the recent past. Thus, a reasonably intelligent voter can hardly vote with conviction and he has to make compromises between his values ​​and the incompetence and/or the corruption of his leaders. Which sometimes results in seemingly illogical choice, even if a processus of reflection is behind this choice.
With all due respect to our friendly chum Achemar,I've seen plenty of examples of this;though I understand why many folks identify with a certain political party,some folks take that to embarrassing extremes.Won't waste too much time discussing how the 2 big parties in the U.S. scheme to prevent any others from challenging their stranglehold but,as you can figure out,that not only limits choices it also produces candidates who are FAR less well-rounded.I've known some religious types who automatically voted for the GOP,and I've noticed some black-Americans(and many US Latinos
)who don't even do one iota of research before voting for the Democrat;i.e.,if you somehow doctored the ballot to place a Ku Klux Klan member or a child molestor in the Democratic column,THAT'S whom they'd vote forThe other interesting point you touched on was the awesome power of the visual medium....IMO,behavioral psychology is the only branch of psychological studies that is a legit science because it is based so heavily on observed empirical data instead of empty conjecture and philosophy...and behavioral psychology shows that,though ALL of the media have the ability to strongly brainwash,the various visual media,such as TV,are the most effective.Even above-average thinkers can be unduly influenced there,and we don't need to mention what happens to the intellectually so-so or simpletons
Oh but don't worry, I am aware that Chrissie-fan's statement reflect the reality of many voters and that's why I wrote even if I agree that many people "have no idea what the're actually voting for". If I did not recognize this fact, I'd be worried for my sanity :lol:With all due respect to our friendly chum Achemar,I've seen plenty of examples of this;though I understand why many folks identify with a certain political party,some folks take that to embarrassing extremes.Won't waste too much time discussing how the 2 big parties in the U.S. scheme to prevent any others from challenging their stranglehold but,as you can figure out,that not only limits choices it also produces candidates who are FAR less well-rounded.I've known some religious types who automatically voted for the GOP,and I've noticed some black-Americans(and many US Latinos
The other interesting point you touched on was the awesome power of the visual medium....IMO,behavioral psychology is the only branch of psychological studies that is a legit science because it is based so heavily on observed empirical data instead of empty conjecture and philosophy...and behavioral psychology shows that,though ALL of the media have the ability to strongly brainwash,the various visual media,such as TV,are the most effective.Even above-average thinkers can be unduly influenced there,and we don't need to mention what happens to the intellectually so-so or simpletons
It's nevertheless true that the results of an election include an arbitration between several factors. More often than not,the simplistic interpretation of media fails to discern the fundamental elements that have influenced the choice of the population.
Since we have turned this thread into a political soap box, I want to join and give my 25 cents too
I am personally finding the GOP a puzzle. An enigma. They have some solid, good people. Giuliani, ex NY mayor. Rick Perry, Governor of Texas and also Mitt Romney. As Governor of Massachusetts, he was instrumental in implementing health care reforms, a Democratic President would be proud to put his names to.
However, when someone is elected and runs for President for the GOP, it appears the party machines takes over and it's nothing but an anti gay, anti abortion, gun swinging, religious fanatics agenda.
Personally, I don't get it.
Just because he's from Texas, it doesn't make him a looney pr default. You know he started off as a Democrat and supported Al Gore? .. That said, he's very popular in the lone star state and has steered it well through recent crisis, imho.
As with Romney however, getting close to a GOP Presidential candidature, his views have unfortunately swung to a much more extreme stance in the last couple of years.
It's EXACTLY the same with the Democrats in the US....Since none of you really give a shit about Mexico,I'll only briefly digress by saying that we have our OWN Obama down here,and his name is Obrador.He came close to winning the presidency in 2006 but then he damned any future hopes he had--fortunately for us--by making an ass of himself in protesting for months over some ridiculous conspiracy theories that allegedly explained why he lost.Once some exhaustive,neutral-party re-counting proved that he lost,he finally shut up after destroying his credibility.
Obrador was a puppet of the utter lowlife,Hugo Chavez,and also Fidel Castro who apparently dreamed of spreading their propaganda to Mexico...can't say how much foreign funding he's getting now,but he's no different than Obama(whom you could call '***** Obrador').He supports passing out small handouts to the poor every month without ever instituting any policies that would help them escape their poverty,i.e.,he STRONGLY encourages idleness so that people will be dependent on him as a sugar daddy or some sort of imagined "Savior".If you look at where he's governed,so to speak,the poor in those areas are in precisely the same boat as they were 20 years ago...which is RIGHT where he's always wanted them.Like o-BUM-a,he's similar to a crack dealer who pretends to be benevolent by giving addicts free samples once in a while to keep them hooked because,if you ever rose above poverty to reach the middle class or even become rich,Obrador would be as worthless as teats on a bull to you since he doesn't actually lead or do anything substantive for you OR the country.
Back to the part you cared about:lol:,the Democrats have an impressive,diverse group of politicians on the municipal and state levels but,once you get to the federal levels,they march in lockstep with the militant pro-gay,pro-abortion and libertine extremists who generously fund their campaigns.For the record,Obama's Attorney General and close friend,waste-of-life Eric Holder,has made it open season on assault weapons sales to foreign countries such as mine.In fact,over 95% of automatic weapons down here came from what were deemed LEGAL sales in the US....so,if you choose to visit us on vacation,and then your wife/gf/child gets gunned down in gang crossfire,you may blame the hellspawn who fired the weapons and then say,'Thank you o-BUM-A/Holder
To clarify,I classify abortion extremists as those who decapitate a child who's 8 months in the womb so that they can get more tax-free money from research labs by harvesting the child's brain intact...or those who rationalize the killing of a fully-born child who happens to be missing a hand or a foot....Nietzsche and Mengele would be proud of the modern USA....Lastly,I understand why so many fear any connection between political leaders and religious organizations;the majority-Muslim nations offer ample forensic argument for such a separation.However,there's a distinction between being strung along by a religious ORGANIZATION and supporting certain religious VALUES.IMO,Abraham Lincoln was one of the best US presidents,perhaps THE best,and one of the most remarkable leaders of the past couple centuries...and he was intellectually brilliant and OPENLY cited the Bible and declared that it was a basis for his belief systems.
It's pretty clear that you Europeans hate,with a passion,any minute trace of religion or faith,but I'll remind you that there's an almost-visible line of demarcation between simpletons who blindly accept religious dogma...and inspired,wise individuals who choose to believe in some sort of Deity/Divine Moral Judge,many of whom are the heroes/heroines of yesteryear.It's only in the last 50 years that blanket religion-hating has become the 'flavor of the month',and I don't see much evidence that we're any morally superior now than we were before the trend:shrug:...if anything,we might be a little bit WORSE.......That's all for now---I hope that at least one person enjoyed the info about my country:lol:
As I've said before, I enjoy reading about other countries, so I, for one, have found an interest to your digression
And although I do not fully share your opinion about the Americans and their current president, I always have an interest in your POV about them. And I understand your feelings. About religious beliefs, being a believer is not a problem in itself: it becomes a problem when religious leaders govern through elected politicians. Or when laws are written being inspired by centuries-old religious books that are no longer in tune with modern values.
I would add that atheists are far less numerous than your comment would suggest. Less than 5% of the worlwide population. Even in France more than 50% of the citizens declare being believers. In many Europeans countries, 70% to 90% of the population believes in God, or in some spirituality. Also, I don't think than being "moral" has anything to do with religious beliefs. Our moral behavior is much more related to our education and our social environment.
That's not true at all. We don't hate religion with a passion in Britain and I'm sure the same goes in Europe. Some of my best friends are religious - some are atheists. We all get on just fine and the idea we'd hate each other about it is absurd. I see there's a lot of hate on these boards against anyone religious. But GM and these boards is all about hate anyway and is not representative of people in the real world.
What we don't have here is religious dogma tied to power and politics trying to ram dogma down our throats.
Hey guys, it would be great if you could support a good cause and make a post in this thread: http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=472014
I chose my words very poorly above;obviously,not all Europeans hate any form of religion,and you'll probably believe me when I say that I didn't mean that.My intent was more in line what you touched on in the latter part of your first paragraph: Europeans who belong to blogs and forums invariably despise not only religion but,usually,its adherents.Even THAT isn't a complete absolute but,as you've surely noticed,it seems to be an overwhelming majority
Thank you for your kind words AND your interest in MexicoAs I've said before, I enjoy reading about other countries, so I, for one, have found an interest to your digression
About religious beliefs, being a believer is not a problem in itself: it becomes a problem when religious leaders govern through elected politicians. Or when laws are written being inspired by centuries-old religious books that are no longer in tune with modern values.
I would add that atheists are far less numerous than your comment would suggest. Less than 5% of the worlwide population. Even in France more than 50% of the citizens declare being believers. In many Europeans countries, 70% to 90% of the population believes in God, or in some spirituality. Also, I don't think than being "moral" has anything to do with religious beliefs. Our moral behavior is much more related to our education and our social environment.
Don't have much to add except that,in the forensic sense,morals are not empirical facts so there's always an element of subjectivity to them and we can't literally PROVE that someone's morals are good or bad.
Also,I'll say that your statement about religious values being outdated is,itself,a mere belief that's no better or worse,forensically,than those ideas which you feel no longer have any value.Though you have lots of people who agree with you,there's also a vast multitude that strongly DISagrees.Even if you managed to win an academically well-organized debate against someone who disagreed with you,that wouldn't PROVE that you were right and your opponent wrong...that could simply be a case where your counterpart had poor debating skills......Personally,I don't feel threatened by the existence of opposing viewpoints b/c I have enough conviction in my own such that I don't need others to confirm by agreement.....but I'm definitely in the minority in THAT respect:lol:
Well, you know what type of people assemble at internet forums.:lol: And most bloggers only blog because they have something to bitch about. I don't think that most Europeans hate religion as such, but many have a "fuck if I care" attitude towards it. And of course the countless stories of child abuse associated with the catholic church made even more people cynical about it all. The one thing that annoys me about religion is when believers claim some sort of moral superiority. The above example plus the fact that millions upon millions all throughout history have murdered in the name of god pretty much put that one out the window I think. Of course I agree that you shouldn't kill, rape, torture, steal and the rest of it. But you don't need religion for that. All you need is a conscience.
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