What separates Lena from HH and Clijsters? - TennisForum.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2005, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Veritas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,895
                     
What separates Lena from HH and Clijsters?

Lena had a spectacular debut season back in 2000 - or a spectacular 'second season', if you consider 1999 a real one, since she didn't play as many matches as her other pro years.

Just to recap:

She jumped from #62 in 1999 to #12 in 2000.

She reached the SF at the US Open, beating players like the RG champ that year, Mary Pierce, and Anke Huber.

She reached the SF in Moscow and stretched eventual champ, Martina Hingis, to 3 very tough sets.

She won the silver medal at the Sydney Olympics.

And she also reached the SF at the YEC, beating Davenport along the way.

Like Lena, Clijsters and HH also had spectacular debut/second seasons around the same time. Yet they've lived up to their early hype, especially HH. Lena, OTOH, had a promising first 2001 quarter, but went downhill from there and didn't really pickup until she won at Amelie Island back in 2003.

So what is it about Lena's game that made her not live up to that 2000 breakthrough? And don't say 'the serve' because it obviously wasn't that much of a problem then. There must be something else in Lena's game that held her back.

I wonder what it is
Veritas is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2005, 01:53 PM
Captain of the SS Dementieva
 
Dementinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bridge SS Dementieva
Posts: 15,125
                     
probably her mental concentration ,Kim etc mainly does not make many errors ,They also do hit some wonderful shots but rarely make the daring winners that Elena goes for ,but Elena does wander off and simply cannot focus enough ,so the errors kill her ,I think she mostly loses because of too many Errors rather than simply the serve ,it doesnt help having a bad serve of course because she cant get chep points of it..

realistically ,its more a mental thing ,she simply loses concentration and rushes ,then loses confidence and thats it ,its over ,whereas Kim etc plays safe mostly ,rarely losing focus and getting the winner if needed ,but mostly waiting for errors from the oppo..

The WS are a bit similar to Lena ,when they are on ,devistation ,but they too go for dangerous shots and whizz thru ,sometimes losing it.

I feel its a Russian thing as Myskina has the same problem and even Sharapova to a point ,they panic and start getting all tight.

Talent wise ,Elenas right up there with the best ,when working her winners are a beautiful sight ,her movement is superb and speed ,strength and size ,unrivalled at times but sadly inside that pretty head of hers is where most of the probs lie...hopefully she can sort it out ,but who knows for sure

Still ,she hardly had a disasterous career ,and achieved more than 98% of pro players will ever do ,but lets hope the best is to come

Captain of the all new SS Dementieva


Once a Lena fan always a Lena fan
Dementinator is offline  
post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2005, 02:23 PM
Worshipping the bangs
 
miffedmax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Larsson's Player Forum
Posts: 55,261
                     
I will say the serve. It has always been a problem for Lena. If you go back and look at the transcripts from the 2000 U.S. Open there's an interview where she admits "I think my grandmother could server better than I do." While Lena did not have the DF problems early in her career (before her shoulder injury) her serve was always a way to put the ball in play, not a weapon. Such a serve was adequate before the women's game became so power-based, but by 2000 that change was already underway and today most top players can count on hitting at least a few aces and winners off their serve.

The head is another issue. Lena, like many children of domineering parents (and let's fact it, Mommy Vera is a stage mom par excellence) suffers from serious underconfidence. The poor serve makes the head worse. The head makes the poor serve worse. It's a viscious cycle.

That's my armchair shrink analysis, anyway.

Max
Pass the duct tape and super glue. Lena's done broke my heart one last time.
Onward my LOB! Lena (ret.) Vika Vee TOB Caro Alexa Sabs Wicky Lesia Vania BMS Ekat Andi H. Jo-La Lena V KP2 Lil Bit Kiki Mini Mak Baby Veronika
V Squad, The LOB Elite: Vika, Venus and the Mad Viking of Norrland
Jo-La Duchess of Norrland and Bastad
Elena Viatcheslavovna Dementieva--Eternal Goddess of the Divine Bangs
miffedmax is offline  
post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2005, 02:28 PM
Captain of the SS Dementieva
 
Dementinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bridge SS Dementieva
Posts: 15,125
                     
sounds about right to me really...

hopefully as Elena gets a little older she will become a bit more confident..we can but hope..and at least it does appear she now realises she needs the boost the serve ,but I really do not think its the only reason ,beacuse Elena served probably the very worst she has ever done at USO last year and still made life difficult for all before her ,that was because she was being aggressive and hitting winners ,something she hasnt quite done this season thus far ,well at least since about march anyways..so even the shit serve can be overcome if she starts comming forward again ,her serve is better now than it was at this point last year.

Captain of the all new SS Dementieva


Once a Lena fan always a Lena fan
Dementinator is offline  
post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2005, 02:35 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 23,436
                     
Well 4 grand slam titles separate her from Justine. Both Belgians have a boatload of titles while Lena has but a few and no Tier I titles. Also the bad serve.

Petra Kvitova
Golovin-Dementieva-Likhovtseva-Beltrame-Benešová-Chakvetadze-Szávay-Paszek-Cirstea
Vera Zvonareva
Riding the 3AM Rollercoaster
selyoink is offline  
post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2005, 02:36 PM
Captain of the SS Dementieva
 
Dementinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bridge SS Dementieva
Posts: 15,125
                     
very bluntly put

Captain of the all new SS Dementieva


Once a Lena fan always a Lena fan
Dementinator is offline  
post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2005, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Veritas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,895
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niktosrule
Well 4 grand slam titles separate her from Justine. Both Belgians have a boatload of titles while Lena has but a few and no Tier I titles. Also the bad serve.
I meant what "separates" Lena from the Belgians in terms of on-court talent, not the stats.
Veritas is offline  
post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2005, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Veritas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,895
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dementinator
probably her mental concentration ,Kim etc mainly does not make many errors ,They also do hit some wonderful shots but rarely make the daring winners that Elena goes for ,but Elena does wander off and simply cannot focus enough ,so the errors kill her ,I think she mostly loses because of too many Errors rather than simply the serve ,it doesnt help having a bad serve of course because she cant get chep points of it..
The mental bit is where Kim and Lena stand on the same ground. Both played terribly at the same stages - but Kim did do well against Capriati at the '01 RG final and against HH three years later at the AO.

Lena's game is just as powerful as Kim's, if not more. But there's something missing in Lena's game because Kim's able to compensate her choking with a game that (like you said) is more 'safe' and consistent.

I guess this means Lena needs to settle down: don't go for the risks and winners all the time. Kim's more of a retriever yet she's able to blast anyone else off the court when she wants to.

I think it's the unforced errors and Lena's risk-taking that makes her so inconsistent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dementinator
realistically ,its more a mental thing ,she simply loses concentration and rushes ,then loses confidence and thats it ,its over ,whereas Kim etc plays safe mostly ,rarely losing focus and getting the winner if needed ,but mostly waiting for errors from the oppo..
I agree more or less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dementinator
The WS are a bit similar to Lena ,when they are on ,devistation ,but they too go for dangerous shots and whizz thru ,sometimes losing it.
Difference is, the WS are far more consistent. I think it's the accuracy of their shots that puts them above a lot of players.

Coming to think of it, Lena usually loses not because she's overpowered - it's all about self-destruction. She loses the match. She lets her opponents win. Otherwise, how can you explain Maurasemo beating Lena in straight sets on 3 occasions back in 2003, especially the double-bagle in Paris, yet she lost twice at big stages a year later? Or what about Lena beating Lindsay 6-1, 6-3 at RG, but losing 6-1, 6-0 about 6 months later?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dementinator
I feel its a Russian thing as Myskina has the same problem and even Sharapova to a point ,they panic and start getting all tight.
Again, there's a difference: both have something in their game which earned them a GS each.

I don't believe for a second that Myskina's RG win was because of her "brilliant" play. She just did what most pros would've done: don't overdo it; let the opponent make the mistakes and self-destruct. It was the same at Wimbledon: Lena self-destructed. Myskina was supposed to lose there, but Lena's risk-taking and choking let her off the hook. Again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dementinator
Talent wise ,Elenas right up there with the best ,when working her winners are a beautiful sight ,her movement is superb and speed ,strength and size ,unrivalled at times but sadly inside that pretty head of hers is where most of the probs lie...hopefully she can sort it out ,but who knows for sure
Unfortunately, the mental part is also a talent. So far, it's won players like HH and Myskinas a GS win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dementinator
Still ,she hardly had a disasterous career ,and achieved more than 98% of pro players will ever do ,but lets hope the best is to come
Yeah, but then again, that's almost lowering Lena's standards: she should be compared to the very best because that's where her potential is.

It's like comparing the wheat and the chaff. Both are similar yet one's natural (wheat) while the other's artificial (chaff). Lena's results are artificial: her natural position is at the top end, but she has to be content with "only" 4 titles and 2 Slam finals because they're artificially good.
Veritas is offline  
post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2005, 04:12 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Night Club SS/ Orchestra
Posts: 1,052
                     
I think its of course the service of Lena (by the way...it isn't a bad one but a special), but also the fact that Kim and Henin are a mentally a bit stronger.
They are all worldclass, but what separates them is - in my opinion - the mental side, and maybe the technic, especially Justine has a lot of great strokes.
Dementirilenko is offline  
post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2005, 07:30 PM
Senior Member
 
Demosthenes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Novak Egg
Posts: 45,231
                     
If you love Elena then send a PM to Paldias that looks like this:
Title:Immunity Challenge #1
I support the Ingala Tribe
Reffered by:Nadia Petrova

If you forward the message to me then I will give you a good rep for the next five days. Please help out the Ingala Tribe from WTAWorld Survivor!!

2016 Title(s):
Suicide: Strasbourg


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikapower View Post
And to think that Génie is 0-4 against this Kvitova player. Sometimes tennis is just not logical at all.
Demosthenes is online now  
post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2005, 07:42 PM
Senior Member
 
JLDementieva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Behind Elena
Posts: 4,318
                     
obviously as everyone's said, the serve. I remember at last year's USO final, Kuzzie was able to jump all over Elena's serve.
Elena's an excellent fighter, but I don't sense the same fighting spirit as Justine does. Justine is so mentally strong, and Elena lacks that, especially in the big matches like those GS finals. JHH used to choke too, but she's just about over that, so it's not impossible for Elena to be mentally strong.
I still think Elena is a bit inconsisent sometimes, she relies on her groundstrokes because of the weak serve. But if her groundstrokes aren't working, then she really is screwed because not only is she unable to hold serve, she can't break as well.
I also noticed that Elena let's her opponent jump all over her in the beginning of matches and sets. She can turn it around quickly against the average players, but the top players aren't going to give her that chance.
so I would say the mental side is all that separates Lena from JHH and Clijsters. The serve is mental too, I've seen her serve some damn good ones, so I know she can do it, she just needs to be confident enough so that she can blast those over 100mph serves on the court. When that will be, who knows...

*~Elena Dementieva~*


Anastasia Myskina

Daniela Hantuchova
JLDementieva is offline  
post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2005, 08:12 PM
Worshipping the bangs
 
miffedmax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Larsson's Player Forum
Posts: 55,261
                     
The other difference is, of course, that Elena is much more adorable.

(Can't have a thread without any Lena praise in it, now can we?)

Max
Pass the duct tape and super glue. Lena's done broke my heart one last time.
Onward my LOB! Lena (ret.) Vika Vee TOB Caro Alexa Sabs Wicky Lesia Vania BMS Ekat Andi H. Jo-La Lena V KP2 Lil Bit Kiki Mini Mak Baby Veronika
V Squad, The LOB Elite: Vika, Venus and the Mad Viking of Norrland
Jo-La Duchess of Norrland and Bastad
Elena Viatcheslavovna Dementieva--Eternal Goddess of the Divine Bangs
miffedmax is offline  
post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 2005, 08:34 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 23,436
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musashino
I meant what "separates" Lena from the Belgians in terms of on-court talent, not the stats.
Well in that case Justine has much more variety of shots. She can hit every shot.

As for Kim not much other than the serve. Obviously they both have a ton of talent but it hasn't gotten either of them the grand prize. Kim has obviously underachieved at Slams since she should have won a few by now. Lena you may say has overachieved at the slams since she hasn't won any big titles yet has two slam finals.

Petra Kvitova
Golovin-Dementieva-Likhovtseva-Beltrame-Benešová-Chakvetadze-Szávay-Paszek-Cirstea
Vera Zvonareva
Riding the 3AM Rollercoaster
selyoink is offline  
post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 2005, 02:05 PM
Senior Member
 
michelle11's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 448
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by miffedmax
The other difference is, of course, that Elena is much more adorable.
that's it !!!

much better to be her boyfriend than her coach
(vice versa to henin)

Anastasia Myskina Elena Dementieva

Let me hear your balalaika’s ringing out
Come and keep your comrade warm


Riding the 3AM Rollercoaster
michelle11 is offline  
post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old Aug 27th, 2005, 02:08 PM
Captain of the SS Dementieva
 
Dementinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bridge SS Dementieva
Posts: 15,125
                     
the other thing that seperates JHH and Lena is as follows..

About 30 pounds
7 inches in height
long blonde hair
long legs
boobs (yes she has boobs)
Doesnt look like Jean Claude Van Damme
And of course ,sadly any GS........YET!!

Captain of the all new SS Dementieva


Once a Lena fan always a Lena fan
Dementinator is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TennisForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome