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post #2446 of 2842 (permalink) Old May 4th, 2013, 08:15 PM
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

This strange girl knows how to tease.-O-
Speaking of reflections of myself,
it's not easy for a stubborn, lazy and hot-tempered one to listen to others and follow right advices.
A difference is, she seems to have stronger tendency to ignore everything from the outside.
If I'm right, it might helped her stay strong and positive but also gave her all kinds of troubles.
I guess her former coaches have a lot to say about her attitude.
Nothing wrong with going lonesome way but at least she shouldn't insult her beloved sport.
I'll be glad if she proves me wrong in the next months.
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post #2447 of 2842 (permalink) Old May 4th, 2013, 10:07 PM
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

Mona-- in a bit of a tailspin.

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post #2448 of 2842 (permalink) Old May 4th, 2013, 10:53 PM
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by KatjaS View Post
Wow, don't really know what to say about this...we didn't see it but how the match went sounds awfully familiar. She needs someone to wake her up. Now after Fed Cup this imho could be Rittner like someone (crazillo?) suggested. Her attitude is horrible, one "I don't care" match is bad, 3 is unacceptable.
Yeah, I thought it really helped Julia when Rittner openly criticized her. She did not put up a performance like this in important matches again.

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post #2449 of 2842 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2013, 12:07 AM
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grininel View Post
This strange girl knows how to tease.-O-
Speaking of reflections of myself,
it's not easy for a stubborn, lazy and hot-tempered one to listen to others and follow right advices.
A difference is, she seems to have stronger tendency to ignore everything from the outside.
If I'm right, it might helped her stay strong and positive but also gave her all kinds of troubles.
I guess her former coaches have a lot to say about her attitude.
Nothing wrong with going lonesome way but at least she shouldn't insult her beloved sport.
I'll be glad if she proves me wrong in the next months.
Interesting post.
Her home coach Schürlesmann who is working with her for some years has been quoted that he does not travel with her because he thinks Mona knows at best on her own what she has to do on the court.

Mona obviously still agrees with him in this point. She mentioned something similar on a question towards her coach situation in a recent interview after Paris.
I guess that her mum`s talks in the breaks who always appeals to her intuition and inner voice, etc. are in conformity with and probably even arranged with her home coach.
I think that`s not wrong per se. Mature players indeed don`t need much advice in their matches and it might have been working pretty well for her in the early stage of her career on the ITF level.
But for now it`s a fatal misjugdement when you see how ridiculously helpless she is at times on the court, finding herself once again in a similar situation overall like in the last season with similar awful performances.
Mona actually can`t ignore that anymore.

Last edited by joy division; May 5th, 2013 at 12:36 AM.
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post #2450 of 2842 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2013, 12:31 AM
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by joy division View Post
Interesting post.
Her home coach Schürlesmann who is working with her for some years has been quoted that he does not travel with her because he thinks Mona knows at best on her own what she has to do on the court.

Mona obviously still agrees with him. She mentioned something similar on a question towards her coach situation in a recent interview after Paris.
I guess that her mum`s talks in the breaks who always appeals to her intuition and inner voice, etc. are in conformity with and probably arranged with her home coach.
I think that`s not wrong per se. Mature players indeed don`t need much advice in their matches and it might have been working pretty well for her in the early stage of her career on the ITF level.
But for now it`s a fatal misjugdement when you see how ridiculously helpless she is at times on the court, finding herself once again in a similar situation overall like in the last season with similar awful performances.
Mona actually can`t ignore that anymore.
Very easy.
Nr. 5. Na Li earned in her career about 11m $ in price money and about 30m $ other income.

For this you need probably at least 3m $ to invest.
Mona need the best people in Germany in seven eight specializations.
Everything else is nonsense. Mashas отец/father not gone from fun to US.

Happiness depends upon ourselves. Aristotle

Last edited by Penc; May 5th, 2013 at 12:38 AM.
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post #2451 of 2842 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2013, 01:31 AM
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by joy division View Post
Interesting post.
Her home coach Schürlesmann who is working with her for some years has been quoted that he does not travel with her because he thinks Mona knows at best on her own what she has to do on the court.

Mona obviously still agrees with him in this point. She mentioned something similar on a question towards her coach situation in a recent interview after Paris.
I guess that her mum`s talks in the breaks who always appeals to her intuition and inner voice, etc. are in conformity with and probably even arranged with her home coach.
I think that`s not wrong per se. Mature players indeed don`t need much advice in their matches and it might have been working pretty well for her in the early stage of her career on the ITF level.
But for now it`s a fatal misjugdement when you see how ridiculously helpless she is at times on the court, finding herself once again in a similar situation overall like in the last season with similar awful performances.
Mona actually can`t ignore that anymore.
Exactly.


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post #2452 of 2842 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2013, 01:49 AM
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

http://www.tennisforum.com/showthrea...8#post27587938

It's a good idea to know each other better.


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post #2453 of 2842 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2013, 01:54 AM
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I think she is very absentminded.She just hits the ball but she never cares whether the ball is in or out. when she returned the 2nd serves, she just wasted the chance to be dominated. So irritable, so negative.
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post #2454 of 2842 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2013, 05:56 AM
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

Firstly, Flipkens has been, in the last year or so, in her career best form, and she is ranked 8 places above Mona, so this hardly is an upset, although it would be considered a winnable match.

We also didn't see the match so we are lacking something in being sure exactly what happened.

There certainly seems to be a worrying trend in Mona's matches though. After she missed the chances to break at 4-4 in the first set, she lost many games easily. She seems to become a bit negative if things start slipping away.

A similar pattern could be seen in Bojana's match today against Julia. After losing the key game at 4-5 when she had just broken Julia and was back on serve, the match slipped away from her, albeit a bit more slowly than in Mona's match. Both of these girls have been losing a lot of matches recently and have unknowingly developed some kind of losing habit which manifests at key moments in matches and causes momentum to get away from them.

This is a difficult situation for Mona.

Many things are open to speculation, but it is clear that the current situation is not working well enough for her and right now she does not seem capable of dealing with this problem by herself. She needs to have a way of stopping or at least slowing down the slide when her game slips away form her.

There is a certain mindset needed to compete at the highest level, and Mona is not doing it, and possibly some other things, right at the moment.

Of course it's theoretically possible for her to figure out how to remain in a competitive mindset under pressure by herself, but a bit of help would probably not go amiss.

Nonetheless she is still ranked 30 or close to it in the world and in my opinion every match is a good opportunity to break the losing habit. So I think she needs to keep playing. But before she steps out on court next time she needs to find her fighting mentality. She has to find a way of fighting back against opponents, against losing situations, against tiredness, against bad form. Sometimes when you are out on court and your game isn't working the way you want, you feel like you are your own worst enemy. It requires a kind of mental toughness to be able to battle not only your opponent but your own game. It's a necessary skill though because on some days your game is not your friend, but an adversary, and you still want to win on those days too.

Mona would have no problem fighting against even the toughest opponent if her game were her ally, as it was in some of her earlier matches some months ago. But when her game doesn't seem to be her friend anymore she starts to become mentally lost.

When you seem to have no allies on court, even your favourite shots are betraying you, you need to keep fighting, alone if necessary. Beat your opponent without your backhand, without your serve, without anything except will power. Even when your own mind seems to be your enemy, you still need to find a way to win or at the very least compete tough.

Maybe this was the difference in Fed Cup, where Mona felt she had allies. Also, it helped that Bojana was in poor form.

The other side of that coin is that if you are prone to bad form you need to become good at coaxing better tennis out of your game even when things seem to not be working. Some players are able to do that, they can be playing horribly but over a period of minutes they make adjustments and find a way to make the backhand, to make the return of serve.

You normally wouldn't think of Petra Kvitova as being an example of a good match player, she is so up and down, but she is very aware that even when playing horribly she might start finding her shots at some point, and she turns around a surprising number of matches after playing awful tennis. That's why she is number 8 despite her ability to play some of the worst tennis in existence. (I suspect that if she ever got in proper shape she could be significantly higher). Whereas when Mona starts to play badly you don't get the sense that she thinks she can find her tennis again. It seems that she starts to feel the situation is hopeless. Petra is surely worried when she starts bashing the ball miles out, but she keeps going in the hope that she will find the range again in time to turn the match.

I admit that Flipkens' game is designed to make it difficult for an opponent to establish a rhythm, as well.

Do we have any reports from people who saw it live?

Last edited by HowardH; May 5th, 2013 at 06:48 AM.
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post #2455 of 2842 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2013, 07:51 AM
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

Wandering through the Laberthread I see that Mona's troubles are at the forefront of many people's minds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tecumseh View Post
Mona scheint generell ein Mensch zu sein, der sich viele Gedanken macht und möglicherweise setzt sie sich nach den Anfangserfolgen des Jahres zusätzlich unter Druck.

Ich glaube, dass sie sehr hohe Erwartungen an ihr Spiel hat und wenn sie diese im Match nicht erfüllt, führt das bei ihr zu einem kompletten emotionalen Absturz. Sie scheint Enttäuschungen während eines Spiels kaum verarbeiten zu können und genau an dieser Schwäche sollte sie arbeiten.
If I understand correctly what you are saying I agree with this a lot.

"Mona seems to be a person who thinks a lot in general and perhaps when this is added to the successes early in the year she is now feeling generally under pressure.

I think she has very high expectations of her game and if they are not met in a match she tends to suffer a complete emotional crash. She seems to be poor at handling disappointments during a game and she needs to work at this weakness."

I do think she handles pressure poorly at times, which is why it was very important for her to get the Fed Cup win against Bojana (a loss there would have left her totally devastated and would have probably left mental scarring). And she definitely has not been handling disappointment during a game very well.

It's almost as if her game is an "ally" who gives her support, and without that ally she feels lost.

I put it this way, above (the post is long so I quote it to make it easy to see):

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardH View Post
Mona would have no problem fighting against even the toughest opponent if her game were her ally, as it was in some of her earlier matches some months ago. But when her game doesn't seem to be her friend anymore she starts to become mentally lost.

When you seem to have no allies on court, even your favourite shots are betraying you, you need to keep fighting, alone if necessary. Beat your opponent without your backhand, without your serve, without anything except will power. Even when your own mind seems to be your enemy, you still need to find a way to win or at the very least compete tough.
For the same reason it was psychologically much easier for her to play the doubles in Stuttgart, since of course there you have an ally, your partner, right by your side.
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post #2456 of 2842 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2013, 08:43 AM
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

Thanks Howard. It`s always interesting to read extended posts as somebody who plays tennis in professional conditions and knows what he is talking about from his own experience. I wish Mona could read stuff like this.

Of course we didn`t watch the match but the currency of yesterday`s match is pretty much a deja-vu. After that key game at 4-5 it went way too quick. Hard to imagine that she got injured at that point.
So I think we don`t need reports of her match, it`s pretty obvious what happened.
The result is not depending on the quality of her opponent then. It`s pretty much the same when she plays against a good ranked player like Flipkens or somebody like Pegula.

Btw. her little lapidary and indifferent "report" after this match is writen in the third person. I guess Mona was not in the mood and her mum did it for her this time.

I don`t know how Mona is working on this issue with her mum who is the main person and in how far the people in her surroundings are some kind of "routine-blinded and probably too close" to her for giving her the right impulses in this situation.

You think that she should not take a break right now.
I mentioned that because we`ve seen that Mona has been playing her best in the last two years right at the start of the season after the winter-break when the players can recover and regroup.
Of course the players have to learn to deal such situations at best as a part of their daily work as a pro.
But right now she seems to get even deeper in her slump by getting week after week again the same bad experience. So a break right now looks useful to me.
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post #2457 of 2842 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2013, 09:37 AM
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardH View Post
Firstly, Flipkens has been, in the last year or so, in her career best form, and she is ranked 8 places above Mona, so this hardly is an upset, although it would be considered a winnable match.

We also didn't see the match so we are lacking something in being sure exactly what happened.
Let me offer an optimistic point of view: Mona has not updated her website before the tournament which she usually always does; she has not as yet mentioned the first round match-up, nor the result, which she never fails to do even if she does not write a commentary; she has waved doubles with Lisicki although she had previously expressed hopes that they could go on playing together; and she has not written the commentary herself; her mother mentions her not feeling well. This all might indicate that she suffered some illness before the tournament and during that first round. Given this is a mandatory tournament she tried to make an effort, to no avail as we know.
How about not giving up hope... I'm sure she'll eventually do fine later this year.
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post #2458 of 2842 (permalink) Old May 5th, 2013, 07:24 PM
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by joy division View Post
Interesting post.
Her home coach Schürlesmann who is working with her for some years has been quoted that he does not travel with her because he thinks Mona knows at best on her own what she has to do on the court.

Mona obviously still agrees with him in this point. She mentioned something similar on a question towards her coach situation in a recent interview after Paris.
I guess that her mum`s talks in the breaks who always appeals to her intuition and inner voice, etc. are in conformity with and probably even arranged with her home coach.
I think that`s not wrong per se. Mature players indeed don`t need much advice in their matches and it might have been working pretty well for her in the early stage of her career on the ITF level.
But for now it`s a fatal misjugdement when you see how ridiculously helpless she is at times on the court, finding herself once again in a similar situation overall like in the last season with similar awful performances.
Mona actually can`t ignore that anymore.
You mean advices like "stay in the here-and-now" or "enjoy the moment" after a lost tiebreak?

I know this sounds weird, but if Mona ever hires a permanent tourcoach i will definitely miss Hannelore's oncourt coachings.

With regard to her homecoach Maik Schürbesmann i don't buy his argument why he doesn't travel with Mona. You don't even need to be a tennis coach to see that, under certain circumstances, she has no clue what to do on court. I would rather think that he prefers to keep his safe job at the tennis association of Schleswig-Holstein.
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post #2459 of 2842 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2013, 04:26 AM
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

It's certainly no shame to lose to Flipper but not like that and w the Safarova match in mind .... that match (and I've seen it live) was a big mess!
I really like Mona and her game but her problem (how funny some people find her mothers odd coaching sessions ...) is and stays her dominating control-freak mother. You could see it in Stuttgart even in doubles matches.

In the one hand Mona is no clay court top30/40/50 (?) player (at the moment!)!! She moves on clay like (to quote maria) a cow on ice ... and that has much to do w her physiognomie ( she can work on it, f.e by playing doubles or ask MariaS) ... and despite of the stuttgart doubs title ( where she played next a passioned doubs player who was on a mission! ..and usually has the talent to make the best of her partners on court) she looked (her movements) clumsy onclay in Stuttgart's singles ... Bojana is no opponent on clay and I saw the Lucie - match !!

I have never seen her so happy and free on court before than w Sabine at their doubles matches but asked for more doubles playing w her after the final, I noticed her reserved answer ... she's (in contrast to Sabine) not able to decide free (my impression) and her mother watching her matches looks pretty daunting to me. This girl lacks fun to exploit all her potential (we've seen last time in Paris supported by a real/good coach!) and she definitely has a big 1!

Unfortunately she seems to be very devoted to her mother (for all she did for her and cos she's a nice girl but...) - become independent, Mona!

Next months will be hard for her but I really hope she'll get proactive, knowing about her weaknesses on others than hard courts, playing more doubles besides there (Birmingham w sabine) to get more matches and matches w/o the pressure to "must win"

I so much want her to get rid of the mess. With confidence and fun her game is like a cream cake
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post #2460 of 2842 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2013, 07:59 AM
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Re: Mona Barthel - Volume 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by joy division View Post
Thanks Howard. It`s always interesting to read extended posts as somebody who plays tennis in professional conditions and knows what he is talking about from his own experience. I wish Mona could read stuff like this.
Mona should ask Howard to become her permanent tourcoach. As her fan i would support this idea wholeheartedly.
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