In This Thread, even without gasoline engines, the environment is still fucked - TennisForum.com
 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 2003, 12:48 AM Thread Starter
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In This Thread, even without gasoline engines, the environment is still fucked

hydro fuel cell cars are being touted as the future savior of the environment

but there's a snag or two with this technology replacing oil and gas

it takes more work to convert water into a hydrogen fuel than it currently takes to pump oil. Plus.. where do we get that energy in the first place? There's certainly not enough uranium on this planet to cover all our electricity needs with nuclear power. Maybe we could cover up the entire Amazon rainforest with solar cells... even then it wouldn't be enough to power the entire world

the other snag is leakage...

the only notable emission of a hydro fuel cell engine is H2O. So far so good. But, re-search tards from Cal-Tech worked out that if we had a hydro fuel cell economy, something like 100 trillion grams of hydrogen would be released each year into the ozone layer due to the undoubted leakage that would occur from the storage and distribution of hydrogen. Those leakage estimates are based on current leakage rates for oil and gasoline blah

i believe the future of transportation is rubber band powered cars. Yuo stop every mile or so to wind them back up and then zoom back on. But even this technology has a snag. When yuo stop to wind up the rubber band, it presents an excellent opportunity for the Car Key Boi to key up yuor door panel

SCRAAAAAATCH!

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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 2003, 12:54 AM
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...diesel brewed from rape seed oil is a more practical solution...except UStards don't know what diesel is...
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 2003, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willow
...except UStards don't know what diesel is...
No, we do. Diesel is good Eurotard jeans.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 2003, 01:03 AM Thread Starter
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 2003, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car Key Boi
Diesel was in The Fast And The Furious!!
Right, right. And they say we don't know..
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 2003, 01:06 AM
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...how does 190bhp and 50mpg sound...?
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 2003, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Car Key Boi
the only notable emission of a hydro fuel cell engine is H2O. So far so good. But, re-search tards from Cal-Tech worked out that if we had a hydro fuel cell economy, something like 100 trillion grams of hydrogen would be released each year into the ozone layer due to the undoubted leakage that would occur from the storage and distribution of hydrogen. Those leakage estimates are based on current leakage rates for oil and gasoline blah
That's a better alternative than the current one.

And who knows if the Vatican gets its way with condoms the human race would probably halve due to AIDS and the environment will not be fucked anymore. Blah!

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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 2003, 01:23 AM
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not to mention the prodigious torque output of diesels which shame similar petrol powered cars

Btw CKB, hydrogen fuel cell powered cars carrying tanks of hydrogen is one of the oldest and one of the most impractical implementions of fuel cell technology in automobiles. You yourself mentioned water hydrolosis to generate the requisite oxygen and hydrogen required for a typical PEM (proton exchange membrane) fuel cell (as an alternative to transporting pure hydrogen gas), which yes is energy sapping but newer and newer methods are becoming more and more efficient. Hydrolosis to generate hydrogen and oxygen is also an old idea and there are many newer ones on the table including using Borax derivatives (like washing soap) which when dropped in water will create a reaction to generate free hydrogen for the cell (This has been touted as a cheap and efficient source of hydrogen and has even been tested and prototyped in the DaimlerChrysler Natrium about 5 years back, also using semi permeable membranes which passively (ie no energy required) absorb hydrogen from the air has been put forth as a solution. Toting around heavy canisters of pressurized hydrogen gas is only one of the many methods to generate the elements required in a PEM fuel cell reaction. Fuel cells aren't only viable for automobiles but also are planned to be implemented in large powerplants, small electronics and backup power generators etc. The fuel cell solutions are varied and diverse depending on the need and the PEM type of cell is only one of the various solutions (others include Solid oxide, Alkaline, Phosphorous dioxide etc.). The technology is in its infancy but already it has demonstrated great flexibility and versatility.

The Caltech study is further proof of the need for refinement in fuel cell power generation as a long term renewable energy solution. More reliance on fuels like natural gas and biodiesels are better for the intermediate term.

that is all
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 2003, 01:29 AM
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Good points, caelestia, this is just a small hurdle and people know there's too many benefits to come out of this to just easily give up.

The other option and thinking outside the square is (to think small). Not sure if any of you have heard about it, and the science/technology is in very very early stages of research but molecular engineering could provide solutions for environmental clean up. So in other words, rather than going to extraordinary lengths to prevent, we could work on technologies to clean up our mess instead. But this is even a lot more sketchy than these solutions we have, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't invest in it.

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 2003, 01:36 AM
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Thanks Sam L...I've been looking at fuel cells for a while now, but it amazes me how some people still dismiss it without realizing what the technology actually entails

yeah, the micro-ecological clean up stuff does look promising...right now it seems all they've been able to do is condition various forms of bacteria and other microbes to consume the active chemicals etc. in garbage, sewage, oil spills etc...nanites could be next
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Oct 10th, 2003, 04:51 AM
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