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post #16 of 125 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 2014, 07:43 AM
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Re: Tiger Mom: Some cultural groups are superior

I think tiger parenting is effective, but you really need to understand your children well because it can go terribly wrong.

But as a whole I agree to her approach.

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post #17 of 125 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 2014, 10:32 AM
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Re: Tiger Mom: Some cultural groups are superior

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Originally Posted by Expat View Post
As a member of the richest ethnic group in America and also simultaneously a member of the poorest religion in the world (Hinduism) our success in America is due to cultural factors (intact families, value placed on education, keeping up with the Joneses syndrome; its much worse in India than in the US; everyone is judged by how good or bad they are and their families are vis a vis others) but its not something that's exclusive to Indians. Its more an immigrant mentality. Look at South Africans coming second in the list. Most South Africans of Indian origin that I know say that they have to work hard here and get green cards so that they don't go back to the violent crime ridden country that South Africa has become for Indians there. Most can't imagine raising their families there. I am guessing its the same for South Africans of white or black origin also who come here.

Any immigrant will work harder than natives because he has more to lose.
Basically if you have an option to fail you will most likely fail and the safety net in America makes it easy to fail without any consequences. That's why third generation Indian Americans are on average as useless as average Americans. They have been thoroughly Americanized.

BTW by this logic SDG must be validated.
Interesting that you should say that. Someone (I can't remember who) said, I'm not worried about what immigrants will to do America. I worried about what America will do to immigrants.

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post #18 of 125 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 2014, 01:41 PM
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Re: Tiger Mom: Some cultural groups are superior

I didn't raise my kids that way. Maybe that's why they both not only attend(ed) elite high schools, scored in the top 1% on the SAT and the elder attends a Top 25 university, they also don't refer to other people as "useless."

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post #19 of 125 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 2014, 04:36 PM
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Re: Tiger Mom: Some cultural groups are superior

Easy as it is - given current notions of equality - to scoff at, she does have a valid point. Different cultures do have an advantage in different areas. That - much as many are irked by it - seems obvious. Cultures are not equal. Which is why cross-culture can be so beneficial.

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post #20 of 125 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 2014, 04:53 PM
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Re: Tiger Mom: Some cultural groups are superior

Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat View Post
As a member of the richest ethnic group in America and also simultaneously a member of the poorest religion in the world (Hinduism) our success in America is due to cultural factors (intact families, value placed on education, keeping up with the Joneses syndrome; its much worse in India than in the US; everyone is judged by how good or bad they are and their families are vis a vis others) but its not something that's exclusive to Indians. Its more an immigrant mentality. Look at South Africans coming second in the list. Most South Africans of Indian origin that I know say that they have to work hard here and get green cards so that they don't go back to the violent crime ridden country that South Africa has become for Indians there. Most can't imagine raising their families there. I am guessing its the same for South Africans of white or black origin also who come here.

Any immigrant will work harder than natives because he has more to lose.
Basically if you have an option to fail you will most likely fail and the safety net in America makes it easy to fail without any consequences. That's why third generation Indian Americans are on average as useless as average Americans. They have been thoroughly Americanized..
You and I have had this conversation before.
Why do Indian or Asian are not as successful in Europe as they are here?
My point being it depends on the country where people immigrate too.




Talking of immigrants working harder than the natives, I need to go back to an old discussion I hope you still remember.
You had argued then, that as an IT hiring manager, you were favoring Chinese over others in your screening process.
How does your statement that immigrants work harder than the natives square with eliminating other immigrants in early stage of your screening process?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat View Post
BTW by this logic SDG must be validated.
How does it validate SDG's logic?
He comes across as a frustrated Indian Brahmin who seems to lament he is not given his deserved due.
He has also complained about reservations, Indian women adopting western culture and being corrupted by it.
He was looking for a Russian bride.
Brief, he is not that a self confident man.

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post #21 of 125 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 2014, 05:36 PM
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Re: Tiger Mom: Some cultural groups are superior

no group of ppl is superior than the another, it give me the creeps Some people have an advantage over others

so the jews in the US are superior than those in germany or israel? theres nevber an end to those things

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post #22 of 125 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 2014, 06:32 PM
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Re: Tiger Mom: Some cultural groups are superior

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no group of ppl is superior than the another, it give me the creeps
If you mean overall . . .I'd probably agree. But in any specific areas some cultures will be superior to others. Simply because, for various reasons, the culture has long emphasized the importance of that area.


This doesn't mean that any culture (overall) is more valid or worthy than any other. Nor does it mean that all people raised within a culture will be equally influenced by it. But yeah . .in warrior skills - Klingon culture is superior to Vulcan culture. In science - Vulcan culture is superior.

So . in a world that values science much more than fighting, people would see Vulcan culture as superior.

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post #23 of 125 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 2014, 06:53 PM
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Re: Tiger Mom: Some cultural groups are superior

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If you mean overall . . .I'd probably agree. But in any specific areas some cultures will be superior to others. Simply because, for various reasons, the culture has long emphasized the importance of that area.


This doesn't mean that any culture (overall) is more valid or worthy than any other. Nor does it mean that all people raised within a culture will be equally influenced by it. But yeah . .in warrior skills - Klingon culture is superior to Vulcan culture. In science - Vulcan culture is superior.

So . in a world that values science much more than fighting, people would see Vulcan culture as superior.
i agree but to tast this u never them to have Equal starting conditions

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post #24 of 125 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 2014, 06:57 PM
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Re: Tiger Mom: Some cultural groups are superior

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Chua wrote about calling one of her two daughters “garbage” for being rude, dismissing a homemade birthday card as subpar (“I don’t want this — I want another one”), refusing to let her girls watch TV or participate in school plays or have sleepovers, of threatening to give away a beloved dollhouse if her daughter couldn’t master a complicated classical composition within days.
Some of her points are valid, but dehumanising shit like this irritates me. There's a difference between motivating your kids and being an insecure, overbearing dictator in your own home who deprives them of fun. A little bit of nurture never hurt anyone.

Still, all this just reeks of insecure parents who feel the need to live off the exploits of their children in order to feel superior to other parents rather than making the kids "as good as they can be" for the benefit of society.
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post #25 of 125 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 2014, 09:24 PM
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Re: Tiger Mom: Some cultural groups are superior

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no group of ppl is superior than the another, it give me the creeps Some people have an advantage over others
Yeah.
Before you know it, academics will provide scientific support to like-minded politicians to codify and disseminate in the population.

Quote:
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so the jews in the US are superior than those in germany or israel? theres nevber an end to those things
On that I need some clarifications.
Can these stratification hold if the country was changed?
I am assuming her findings are based on US population residing in the country at this particular time.

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post #26 of 125 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 2014, 09:31 PM
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Arrow Re: Tiger Mom: Some cultural groups are superior

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Yeah.
Before you know it, academics will provide scientific support to like-minded politicians to codify and disseminate in the population.


On that I need some clarifications.
Can these stratification hold if the country was changed?
I am assuming her findings are based on US population residing in the country at this particular time.
Can anyone tell me if black wouldn't have suffer for centuries and being slaved to the white person they wouldn't have been on that list?
Besides Jews had to know to read bc of their religious, if u can't read u can't practice ur religious unlike Christianity so the fact all of them know how to read or at least the majority of them that's one hell if an advantage

And we can also talk about woman, if they wouldn't have to raise kids and be housewives for centuries maybe they would have achieved and invented a lot more?

We never know bc the conditions are not equals

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post #27 of 125 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 2014, 09:42 PM
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Re: Tiger Mom: Some cultural groups are superior

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You and I have had this conversation before.
Why do Indian or Asian are not as successful in Europe as they are here?
My point being it depends on the country where people immigrate too.




Talking of immigrants working harder than the natives, I need to go to an old discussion I hope you remember.
You had argued, that as an IT hiring manager, you were favoring Chinese over others in your screening process.
How does your statement that immigrant work harder than the native square with eliminating other immigrant in early stage of your screening process?



How does it validate SDG's logic?
He comes across as a frustrated guy in Indian Brahmin who seems to lament he is not given his deserved due.
He has about complained about reservation, Indian women adopting western culture and being corrupted by it.
He was also looking for a Russian bride.
Brief, he is not that a self confident man.
SDG and logic in the same sentence?

No. Just no.

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post #28 of 125 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 2014, 09:47 PM
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Re: Tiger Mom: Some cultural groups are superior

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SDG and logic in the same sentence?

No. Just no.
Don' blame me?
Let's have Expat explain this one

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post #29 of 125 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 2014, 10:19 PM
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Re: Tiger Mom: Some cultural groups are superior

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Easy as it is - given current notions of equality - to scoff at, she does have a valid point. Different cultures do have an advantage in different areas. That - much as many are irked by it - seems obvious. Cultures are not equal. Which is why cross-culture can be so beneficial.
But how do you draw any useful conclusions from that statement without using ham-fisted stereotypes?

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post #30 of 125 (permalink) Old Jan 6th, 2014, 11:04 PM
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Re: Tiger Mom: Some cultural groups are superior

A few posters have said stuff like everyone is equal or you have to take into account other things .. blah blah blah... excuses and trying to be PC and not hurt other people's feelings!

Tiger parents don't give a crap about feelings. Results are what count and from good results come praise, approval, and self esteem.

I believe this works since I have seen it with several of my Indian and Asian friends, who are all very successful now. Do we resent our parents? No! It does create an environment of stress and competition, but it prepares you for the real world.

Blowing out someone else's candle does not make yours shine brighter.
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