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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 2003, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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North Korea

I saw an awful documentary yesterday about N. Korea. it was a German Documentary, and it's just not leaving me.
everyone's talking about wether N. Korea is a danger to the world, but no-one seems to be talking about how the people of this country are suffering at the hands of their rulers.
the documentary simply showed how people were living there. and while it painted a difficult picture of political oppression the people of NK are experiencing at the hands of their rulers, it was not as frightening as the simple fact that these monsters are STARVING their own people. there is hunger there that is almost unimaginable to most of us. just a small example, there are no birds left in NK, because they've had to eat them. no pets, no insects, everything that could be eatten, was. everywhere you go, there are people who look like holocaust survivors. their bones showing through their skin, their eyes hollow, a look of hoplesness in their eyes. we talk and talk about the war crimes tribunal, how can starving an entire people not be a war crime? why is no-one doing anything? thank God NK is now building nucliar weapons, maybe someone will finally do something.
you know, think what you will about the Korea war, but no-one who sees this documentary can doubt that the americans did good there. they saved South Korea from an unbearable existance. I hope they do the same in Iraq, and then move on to N. Korea. it's unacceptable that people live like that. dictators who have brought their country to the point of mass starvation need to be taken down. this is the 3rd millenium, we can't accept a reality of a nation being tortured by it's leaders.

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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 2003, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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lol, I think that's my most wide eyed and naive post to date. that documentary really upset me.

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 2003, 10:10 AM
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wow I didn't know that. That's really sad

WHy don't they ever show stuff like that here in the states?
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 2003, 10:10 AM
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Well there was a huge feature in my newspaper today about the situation too. Personally I'm no expert and not sure what is going on, but it's clear that nuclear weapons developed there have only one purpose and that needs to be dealt with promptly.




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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 2003, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
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well, yes, nuclear weapons at the hands of NK is a huge concern, but what I'm saying is, the way these people live alone should be a good enough reason to intervene.

It's too soon to aim for peace. Aim for better conflict management.

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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 2003, 10:37 AM
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Yes that's right, but because North Korea has been so isolated and cut off from the world, I don't think many people realise this. I didn't know either.




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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 2003, 10:43 AM
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That North Korea's regime is vile and murduerous is beyond question...until not so long ago though, South Korea had a repressive regime of its own in charge...

Assuming Iraq goes 'well', according to US plans, the conflict will last only a matter of weeks, but will leave a couple of hundred thousand men in Iraq, for years to come in order to 'influence' the region.

Korea is in a different league to Iraq...it has a million strong army, much of it, half an hour away from the South Korean capital...at the first sign of a gathering US Army., it would invade and take the capital in a couple of days...

Remembering Vietnam...do you think even the USA could win such a war? Without going nuclear...which would kill millions and defeat the object.

Some say N.Korea has nuclear weapons already, what then?

I don't think we have any option other than to talk, to engage, to hope that the sunshine policy of the south can bear fruit...we can't have a war of liberation where half the country are likely to be killed, or all of Korea left a nuclear wasteland.

Bear in mind, the people of the South are not fond of Bush's clumsy moves in the region, they see him as as great a threat as the North.

Even, in the most optimitic of scenario's, the USA somehow won such a war quickly, without nuclear weapons...whose next? Iran?

The US/UK positions on Iran are completely different...the US putting it in the Axis of Evil, Britian trying to engage on a positive basis with them...Blair even met a high ranking Iranian offical, for cordial talks the other day...

Have to say though i-girl, even though we are on different sides on this (and perhaps other things. )I have great respect for your opinions, your willingness to say what you believe, popular or not.

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Last edited by Chris Ba; Feb 9th, 2003 at 10:57 AM.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 2003, 11:25 AM
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I have known about what was happening in North Korea for a long time. The North Korean regime is probably worse than the Iraqi one. I absolutely agree that Saddam's regime means not only a threat to its neighbours but also (and long before he became a threat) a tragedy to his own people. He must be removed. But let's face it. If Iraq had an army as strong as North Korea, if it was somehow backed up by China as North Korea is, and if there was no oil in the Iraqi area, would the US administration have the line it is having now, or rather the one it is having with North Korea? What about crimes committed in Afghanistan, to everyone's knowledge, and no move until September 11th? Ours can be a horrible world indeed.

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 2003, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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you're right gmt, but it seems like when someone is finally getting to do something about these horrors, they get attacked for "behaving like they own the world". on the one hand we complain that no-one is taking responsibilty, or is bothering to look beyond his own country, and on the other hand we're mad when someone does get up and says "this is my business too, and I will take action".
and I think our world is getting better. slowly, but surely. Iraq will be dealt with, and eventually NK- because there's no avoiding it, and other countries as well. the world is getting so small, and regimes are becoming so much more visible, that people are going to demand that rulers who abuse their own people, and risk everyone else, will be removed. it's like with this documentary. I knew things were bad in NK, but those pictures... those pictures made me get more involved than I otherwise would. these pictures made me feel that action must be taken, and that it's not even about disarming NK, it's about saving the people of NK. and eventually everyone will see these pictures, and they will feel the same. that's the thing about today's world. the information is everywhere, there's no avoiding it. and when you see something with your own eyes, you feel a lot more obligated to take action. in this world you can no longer say "I didn't know".
and thanks Chris

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Last edited by i-girl; Feb 9th, 2003 at 11:57 AM.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 2003, 01:54 PM
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The problem is that countries (not just the US) take action when it serves their interests. I really don't think that they do it mostly for mankind's sake or for morals. For one evil regime like Saddam's, how many others are still protected and financed by democratic countries? No, I'm afraid that the world is not improving, and the very fact that we now can't say that we don't know and still admit so many horrors without doing anything to put an end to them makes me even more pessimistic. We stand a lot. We stand an awful lot. Our ability to get used to horror is growing much faster than our will to fight it. As for "owning the world", taking actions without really caring about longterm consequences (and I don't mean just terrorism or military threats) is not the only way to react and take a responsibility in the state of affairs. But that's another debate. You are right, South Korea probably was saved from many disasters. The same could have happened to South Vietnam (and even the rest), but that country was under US military control until they let it down - and I blame statesmen for their inconsequence, obviously not American families who wanted their sons back home. But I'd like to be sure that the US did not, in a strange contradiction which only their interests can explain, support the Khmers Rouges, or the Taliban, to name those two criminal regimes.

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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 2003, 02:09 PM
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agree with you gmt, but saddam must go.
However he is not the only one, why is sharon stil in power and why do people stil vote for him when it is proven that his way of dealing with the palestinian people isn't working. Talk about killing his own people

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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 2003, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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you are just hurting your case when you put NK and the Palestinian Autonomy in the same sentence. last time I checked, North Koreans were not exploding themselves near civilians, or invading houses killing women and children sleeping in them. and they are not starving. they are not living comfortably (hell, we're not exactly living comfortably either) but their situation is not even close to the N. Koreans' situation. and if they have no democratic rights, then they only have their own leaders to blame. Israel and the U.S. have been sweating blood trying to bring on some REAL democratic elections in the PA, and to encourage the formation of a democratic government instead of Arafat's little puppit show. our interests are that there will be a valid democracy in the PA.
these same leaders are stealing money from their own people, btw, as even the EU is finally beginning to acknowledge. they have finally formed a commity, only last week, to find out why the money they're transferring never seems to reach the people. *big hint- where do you think they get the money for terror from? yes, Saddam and Saudi arabia are doing their part, but the biggest sponser of terror in the middle east is the EU. nice job guys.* anyhow, the palestinians have not payed their electricity and water bills to Israel for over 3 years now, which means I'm paying it for them with my taxes, and I just saw last week on tv how they are now getting free cable thanks to some new initiative of the cable companies, so you might want to re-consider the comparison to N. Korean people. I'm feeling fairly confident that the Korean people are not concerned with cable reception.

see, this is the down side of this age's information frenzy. the media is only a valueble tool when the conflict is simple, and the bad guys and the good guys are very clear. when things are a bit more complicated than that, when blame can't be so easily assigned, when understanding the complexities of what's going on takes more than 5 seconds and you actually have to bother with history and other boring stuff, they fail. they only end up showing the things which "look good on film" and are real "rating boosters", thus giving a shallow, partial, incredibly un-balanced picture. and that's why I have to deal with half-assed, entirely unknowledgable, amazingly politically correct but not at all concerned with the actual truth, opinions on this well meaning, but down right clueless, board.
(well, some people do have a clue, but not this guy here. it always amazes me how lack of knowledge never stops some people from expressing an opinion )

It's too soon to aim for peace. Aim for better conflict management.

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Last edited by i-girl; Feb 9th, 2003 at 02:40 PM.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 2003, 10:25 PM
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Well I agree with you to i-girl about corruption in their community, but I just think that both arafat and sharon needs to get a clue. You can't really think that the present situation is good. I can't image to live under your circumstances, being affraid of suicidebombers. But I'm objective(key word) enough to state that the palestine people are suffering, and i doubt some tv channels could ever change that.

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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 2003, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by i-girl
well, yes, nuclear weapons at the hands of NK is a huge concern, but what I'm saying is, the way these people live alone should be a good enough reason to intervene.
Same way in Iraq, Iran, Syria and several countries in Africa.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 9th, 2003, 11:04 PM
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The more I'm thinking about how hard it must be being afraid of people who has it so bad that their life no longer means anything, the more I feel sympaty with the israeli people.

I'm so sorry for what you and your people are going through, I just don't understand how you can deal with everything.
Is it that you have gotten used to it, or do you just feel helpless.
My cousin is jewish and she said that she sorry and sad to admit that she doesn't get suprised any more.
Anyway I'm not sure if we ever will see a resolution if both of those mens are in power. I think that exp. arafat is doing to little to prove that he really against everything that has to do with the terrorist acts.
Wish you peace and happiness and I shouldn't have just named sharon as the bad guy.

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