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post #511 of 673 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2012, 03:20 AM
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Re: Racism?

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yes ma'am! was just having some fun while taking a break from the studying
I know it's like watching a terrible wreck, you know you shouldn't watch but sometimes you just can't help yourself.

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post #512 of 673 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2012, 03:30 AM
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Re: Racism?

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I know it's like watching a terrible wreck, you know you shouldn't watch but sometimes you just can't help yourself.
I think most ppl would agree that your posts in this thread are the least constructive and most useless by far. just saying.
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post #513 of 673 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2012, 06:09 AM
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Re: Racism?

A very convenient term to use as a weapon and/or a shield to blather out instead of using their brains to argue a point. Always alright for a minority to hurl out racist abuse at a majority for some strange reason. Even though I am in a minority I have always stayed clear of taking this shortcut,always a better reason to have a scrap

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post #514 of 673 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2012, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Cajka View Post
Prejudices don't have to be negative. Remember your discussion with LBV about genetics, it's a proof that you do have/had some of them. And the way you came here with a random accusation and the whole "You are all making excuses for yourselves, look at me, I'm so opened minded!", well, sorry, it was arrogant, because we were having an honest, civil conversation here (if it was only about ridiculous insults, I'd never participated). The lack of communication is the reason why prejudices still exist, don't you think? And if you don't want to hear the other side of the story, that's a definition of closed minded.
Well I really think that genetics discussion was a huge misunderstanding, it is never easy to discuss such an issue and sciences in a foreign language. The DNA is different for us all. Facts showed that the skin was getting stronger to the sun in different regions. So I was mainly wondering about it. I agree the sports stuff was really ignorant, and I quickly apologized about it. It is not like I thought it was a huge factor. Social conditions play a huge role and I didn't even think of it so yes I was being super ignorant. But I never claimed it as the truth.

I am sorry for saying that, I didn't mean to offend you. I know you are not racist. It is just that most of people who makes that assessement just refuse to admit they are prejudiced in a bad way. You know, the communication is truly important, and sorry but you are being unfair by saying my post might have been close minded. I am always posting in that kind of threads, I apologized a few times, and I am trying to keep my mind open. I am even answering you because you are spot on a few things, I just think there is a misunderstanding.

wildrivers I apologize for talking to you like that. That was uncalled for. But I still believe that your sentence, in the grand scheme of things, are often used as an excuse to justify racism. Not you so I am apologizing.


Quote:
Well, saying that mixing is amazing is sorta weird. It's a given thing. It's not more or less amazing than not mixing. You date a person, not his or her skin color. And how did the post about it come here? Did anyone assume that mixing is wrong, that we should all date within our race? I don't recall reading anything similar.
Well when I said "amazing", it was pure shallowness. Lol. That goes back to what Sammo and Novichok were arguing. I don't think having a type based on the colour of skin is necessarily racist. That includes a few factors. It is like my friend whose girls type is blondes with fair skin.
It has nothing to do with the person. It was just pure shallowness. Ultimately, you know I would not date a jerk, nevermind he is GOAT looking or something now that would be prejudiced to date a guy only based on his origins, and none for his personality.
Sorry, I totally understand why you were uncomfortable with my post, hopefully that cleared up things. I originally made this post because I have been asked why something. (too lazy to look up the post). And the whole multiculturalism thing, that's just because I like it. I think that helps to deal with difference in fact.


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We all have our own beliefs and even our own sort of religion. It doesn't have to be believing in God or anything similar, but we have some beliefs. What I hate is dogma. And atheists can also be dogmatic, not only theists.

Edit: Don't take this as a personal attack, I'm not attacking you, but some of your opinions here.
Yeah true. You are totally right about dogma. I don't mind people who have their own beliefs but it is getting problematic when those beliefs can have a big influence on your principles. But then it can be a philosophical debate ; how do we know abortion is good or evil? And blablah...

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Did you see that final? Mirnyi was absolutely useless, paralyzed by nerves and he kept feeding Bryan easy volleys with his BH return. Robson played a very good first set but became equally useless after that. So basically it was Murray vs Azarenka, and Vika won believe it or not.
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post #515 of 673 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2012, 09:47 PM
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Re: Racism?

Peanut Butter And Jelly Racist? Portland School Principal Ties Sandwich To White Privilege

By Katherine Bindley | 09/12/2012 6:53 pm



A lunchtime staple of students for years, the peanut butter and jelly sandwich could be considered one of the more popular items found in the sack lunches of school children.

But in conjunction with recent equity training in local Portland schools, one principal is raising questions about the mention of the sandwich, arguing it has broader implications about race, the Portland Tribune reports.

The sandwich was reportedly mentioned in a lesson plan last year. Verenice Gutierrez from the Harvey Scott K-8 School used it as an example of a subtle form of racism in language, according to the report.

“What about Somali or Hispanic students, who might not eat sandwiches?” Gutierrez said, according to the Tribune. “Another way would be to say: ‘Americans eat peanut butter and jelly, do you have anything like that?’ Let them tell you. Maybe they eat torta. Or pita.”

As part of a training program known as "Courageous Conversations" that has been phased into Portland schools in recent years, the Tribune reports that staff members at Gutierrez's school have been going through trainings, classroom observations and exercises, such as reading a news article and then talking about it from the perspective of “white privilege."

The organization behind the program is Pacific Educational Group. According to the group's website, their aim is to help minority students through initiatives that address racial educational disparities, "intentionally, explicitly, and comprehensively."

Continued @ Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1874905.html)


I knew it!
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post #516 of 673 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2012, 11:08 PM
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Re: Racism?

WTF?! Hispanic do eat peanut butter and jelly sanwiches. Children love their jelly.

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post #517 of 673 (permalink) Old Dec 10th, 2012, 11:48 PM
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Re: Racism?

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Originally Posted by debby View Post
Well I really think that genetics discussion was a huge misunderstanding, it is never easy to discuss such an issue and sciences in a foreign language. The DNA is different for us all. Facts showed that the skin was getting stronger to the sun in different regions. So I was mainly wondering about it. I agree the sports stuff was really ignorant, and I quickly apologized about it. It is not like I thought it was a huge factor. Social conditions play a huge role and I didn't even think of it so yes I was being super ignorant. But I never claimed it as the truth.

I am sorry for saying that, I didn't mean to offend you. I know you are not racist. It is just that most of people who makes that assessement just refuse to admit they are prejudiced in a bad way. You know, the communication is truly important, and sorry but you are being unfair by saying my post might have been close minded. I am always posting in that kind of threads, I apologized a few times, and I am trying to keep my mind open. I am even answering you because you are spot on a few things, I just think there is a misunderstanding.

wildrivers I apologize for talking to you like that. That was uncalled for. But I still believe that your sentence, in the grand scheme of things, are often used as an excuse to justify racism. Not you so I am apologizing.




Well when I said "amazing", it was pure shallowness. Lol. That goes back to what Sammo and Novichok were arguing. I don't think having a type based on the colour of skin is necessarily racist. That includes a few factors. It is like my friend whose girls type is blondes with fair skin.
It has nothing to do with the person. It was just pure shallowness. Ultimately, you know I would not date a jerk, nevermind he is GOAT looking or something now that would be prejudiced to date a guy only based on his origins, and none for his personality.
Sorry, I totally understand why you were uncomfortable with my post, hopefully that cleared up things. I originally made this post because I have been asked why something. (too lazy to look up the post). And the whole multiculturalism thing, that's just because I like it. I think that helps to deal with difference in fact.




Yeah true. You are totally right about dogma. I don't mind people who have their own beliefs but it is getting problematic when those beliefs can have a big influence on your principles. But then it can be a philosophical debate ; how do we know abortion is good or evil? And blablah...
ahh no worries. sorry about any misunderstanding.
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post #518 of 673 (permalink) Old Dec 11th, 2012, 01:41 PM
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Re: Racism?

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post #519 of 673 (permalink) Old Dec 11th, 2012, 04:51 PM
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Re: Racism?

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Did you see that final? Mirnyi was absolutely useless, paralyzed by nerves and he kept feeding Bryan easy volleys with his BH return. Robson played a very good first set but became equally useless after that. So basically it was Murray vs Azarenka, and Vika won believe it or not.
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post #520 of 673 (permalink) Old Dec 12th, 2012, 02:05 AM
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Re: Racism?

Police Criticized For Firing 137 Shots In Car Chase

December 11, 2012

Some Cleveland residents are calling for a federal investigation following a lengthy car chase that ended badly. Police fired more than 100 rounds at a stopped car, killing the driver and passenger. Some in the community are troubled by what they say are racial overtones in the case.

http://www.npr.org/2012/12/11/167000...s-in-car-chase

(More plus audio story in link)

Given what happened in a (later derailed) thread about the Trayvon Martin killing, I won't start one about this Amadou Diallo (Bronx 1999) style likely execution, with 30 police cars cornering the vehicle of the 2 (unarmed) young ppl killed @ the end, and a reported 137 shots fired @ the kids. Anyone who wants is welcome to, of course.
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post #521 of 673 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 2013, 09:52 PM
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Re: Racism?

I don't know if this was already commented on TF, so I wanted to post about this in one of the already existing threads about racism. Few days ago I saw the movie The Intouchables, it's a movie from 2011. And I remembered readings some critics long time ago. Apparently, some people thought that the movie was racist. How do you, guys, feel about it?

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post #522 of 673 (permalink) Old Jul 16th, 2013, 09:06 AM
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Re: Racism?

I think we all have been somewhat guilty of some racism or stereotyping someone before we even know them. I'll admit there are instances where I am pro black with some things because I can relate and respect some of the racist obstacles, adversity and hoops many of us had to go through that many other people don't. A majority of my friends are black because we share a lot of things in common due to our culture BUT I have MANY friends of other ethnicities too. I'm also attracted physically to (and been with sexually) people of other ethnicities but only really settle down with other black because of things we have in common in culture. So sometimes I think its a gap with (at least for me) in finding things in common with other ethnicities, but I love everyone...I'm not racist

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post #523 of 673 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 2013, 06:05 PM
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Racism (continuation of "Oprah" thread)

Since the thread was closed with no reason given, and since there was actually a pretty good discussion developing (with people keeping it civil for the most part)...
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post #524 of 673 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 2013, 06:06 PM
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Re: Oprah accuses Switzerland store of racism -- Part 2

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Originally Posted by moby View Post
My personal experience is that America is probably the most race conscious society. They are also the most conscious of racism. This is a double edged sword. For instance, IMO, I believe that incident on the freshman orientation bus which I described earlier would never have happened with American students - it would only have happened with international students who are less exposed to diversity and dialogues on the subtle cues of racism.

But in other ways, this actually heightens racial animosity because to be racially conscious is to be made acutely aware of the difference between "them" and "us". Once that realisation is made, it takes deliberate effort to move from that to "we're not the same but that doesn't change anything". When I was in France, for instance, I automatically felt less conscious of my race, but in a prelapsarian sort of way (i.e. in a way where the difference is not acutely made evident in the first place).
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They are closely correlated, but not the same.

Race-consciousness works on a more visceral level, in the sense that you are simply aware that people are of a different race than you. It says nothing about how you will process this perceived difference.

Racism-consciousness is on a higher level, in the sense that they are aware of the social construct of race, of the division of people by their skin colour / ethnic features and the common stereotypes that these entail, of the harmful effects of such stereotypes, and furthermore, of the signs of racism and how to spot them and avoid them.

I would say the former operates on an automatic instinctive level, while the latter is a higher cognitive skill. Race-consciousness leads to racism (which is bad), but also racism-consciousness (which is good). Hence a double-edged sword.

I don't think they are pretending. They are simply not aware of it in the same way.
I'll be completely honest, when I meet a Muslim (or someone of Arabic origin/descent), I do notice it. I probably subconsciously treat them differently, instinctively I wonder what they'd think of me as a gay person, I might be careful what I say around them, I probably unintentionally treat them as an "other" in subtle ways. I try not to, but as you say, when you're conscious that someone is a different race and think of them as different, it takes a lot more deliberate effort to think it doesn't change things.

On the other hand, when I meet a black person, I don't register their race in the same way. That's not because blacks are more common than Muslims either (in fact, I think the Muslim population has overtaken the black population in Britain over the past 20 years), it's simply because black people in Britain are viewed as part of the "us", whereas the media and society in general has conditioned people into thinking that Muslims are the "them", separate (not always necessarily in bad ways) to the rest of us. Even in entertainment, on TV shows, a Muslim cast member would often be defined in people's minds as a Muslim, whereas a black person would be defined by their other characteristics rather than the fact they're black. My point is, I don't think Britain is fundamentally a less race-/racism-conscious society than the USA is, but I think the particular races a society is "conscious" about simply reflects which races have faced the most prejudice in recent history; because there has been FAR more anti-Muslim discrimination and prejudice than anti-black discrimination in Britain in recent years, there consequently is more "consciousness" about Muslims, even among people who don't intentionally discriminate against them.

I do understand why there's such "race consciousness" among and towards black Americans, seeing as there's recent history of them being discriminated against (although, even if I understand it, I still say black Americans' paranoia/over-sensitivity towards racism is detrimental to their cause in the long run), but, as I've said before, what really irks me is when the black Americans on this board judge racism in other societies on their specifically American standards where everyone (and every matter) is divided into being a black person or a white person. I find it insulting on 3 levels: insulting to non-American whites because of the implication that they are somehow to blame for any anti-black racism that American whites were responsible for, insulting to oppressed minorities in other societies who like Azdaja said they feel a stunning lack of solidarity for and imply their oppression is somehow less "legitimate" than black people's oppression, and insulting in terms of it being plain ignorance in that they can't even be bothered doing some basic research into how things are in other societies and arrogantly assume that the way things are in their communties (their community being America in this case) are automatically how it is for everyone else (i.e. the exact things they rightly accuse racists of being).
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post #525 of 673 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 2013, 07:55 PM
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Re: Oprah accuses Switzerland store of racism -- Part 2

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I'll be completely honest, when I meet a Muslim (or someone of Arabic origin/descent), I do notice it. I probably subconsciously treat them differently, instinctively I wonder what they'd think of me as a gay person, I might be careful what I say around them, I probably unintentionally treat them as an "other" in subtle ways. I try not to, but as you say, when you're conscious that someone is a different race and think of them as different, it takes a lot more deliberate effort to think it doesn't change things.

On the other hand, when I meet a black person, I don't register their race in the same way. That's not because blacks are more common than Muslims either (in fact, I think the Muslim population has overtaken the black population in Britain over the past 20 years), it's simply because black people in Britain are viewed as part of the "us", whereas the media and society in general has conditioned people into thinking that Muslims are the "them", separate (not always necessarily in bad ways) to the rest of us. Even in entertainment, on TV shows, a Muslim cast member would often be defined in people's minds as a Muslim, whereas a black person would be defined by their other characteristics rather than the fact they're black. My point is, I don't think Britain is fundamentally a less race-/racism-conscious society than the USA is, but I think the particular races a society is "conscious" about simply reflects which races have faced the most prejudice in recent history; because there has been FAR more anti-Muslim discrimination and prejudice than anti-black discrimination in Britain in recent years, there consequently is more "consciousness" about Muslims, even among people who don't intentionally discriminate against them.

I do understand why there's such "race consciousness" among and towards black Americans, seeing as there's recent history of them being discriminated against (although, even if I understand it, I still say black Americans' paranoia/over-sensitivity towards racism is detrimental to their cause in the long run), but, as I've said before, what really irks me is when the black Americans on this board judge racism in other societies on their specifically American standards where everyone (and every matter) is divided into being a black person or a white person. I find it insulting on 3 levels: insulting to non-American whites because of the implication that they are somehow to blame for any anti-black racism that American whites were responsible for, insulting to oppressed minorities in other societies who like Azdaja said they feel a stunning lack of solidarity for and imply their oppression is somehow less "legitimate" than black people's oppression, and insulting in terms of it being plain ignorance in that they can't even be bothered doing some basic research into how things are in other societies and arrogantly assume that the way things are in their communties (their community being America in this case) are automatically how it is for everyone else (i.e. the exact things they rightly accuse racists of being).
You tell a cool story, dsanders. Gotta give you that.
But back to the real world...you're one of those people who won't call it even when it hits you in the face, so..

Not everything is racism....but when two people are in the same spot. One get hailed, no bad word can be said about her...no matter what he does. The other just minds his business, does no harm..but slips off just once, but then everybody is on his case..and the only difference is their race. It's easy to see and understand..

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