77-44, the law passes - marriage equality in New Zealand :) - Page 12 - TennisForum.com

View Poll Results: Should Gay Marriage be legal?
Yes (please explain your thoughts below) 187 87.38%
No, on religious grounds 15 7.01%
No (please explain your thoughts below) 12 5.61%
Voters: 214. You may not vote on this poll

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post #166 of 393 (permalink) Old Jul 30th, 2012, 12:29 PM
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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage?

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Originally Posted by Sammo View Post
Those are pathetic examples, we're talking about fucking normal people here. Don't come up with the 'horrible parents' argument please
And the fact that there's no evidence that "normal" heterosexual parents are any better at parenting than "normal" homosexual parents? The point I was making is that straight parents aren't inherently better than gay parents. I repeat:

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A Cambridge University developmental psychologist testified at a federal trial in San Francisco today that broad research has documented that children of same-sex parents are just as likely as those of heterosexual parents to be well-adjusted.

"Studies have found children do not require both a male and female parent," testified Michael Lamb, who heads Cambridge's Department of Social and Developmental Psychology.

Lamb was called by lawyers for two same-sex couples who are challenging Proposition 8 as a violation of federal constitutional guarantees of equal protection and due process. Proposition 8, approved by 52.3% of voters in 2008, amended the California constitution to ban same-sex marriage.

He said childhood adjustment is determined by the relationships parents have with children and their relationships to each other.

Lamb also said that studies show "no significant increase" in the proportion of children who become gay and lesbian when they are raised by same-sex couples rather than heterosexuals.

Children of same-sex couples are more vulnerable than their counterparts to be teased about their parents, but not more likely to be teased overall, he said. Lamb also said that children of gays and lesbians have fewer sexual stereotypes than children of heterosexuals.
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post #167 of 393 (permalink) Old Jul 30th, 2012, 01:38 PM
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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage?

Yes. Who is anyone to say 2 people shouldn't marry? 2 people in love is concrete, religion isn't.

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post #168 of 393 (permalink) Old Jul 30th, 2012, 02:39 PM
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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage?

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Originally Posted by pov View Post
I'm pleasantly surprised that there are posters at TF who don't support it.
Why are you pleasantly surprised?

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Originally Posted by Sammo View Post
I think that the figure of both a father and a mother is very important, especially the mother, I just don't like the idea of two male homossexuals adopting children sorry.
Unfortunately, this is a pervading attitude most people have on a various number of subjects. "I just don't like..." They can't explain to you logically why they feel that way and unfortunately evidence does little to change their stubborn minds.

We need better science education at younger ages.
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post #169 of 393 (permalink) Old Jul 30th, 2012, 03:05 PM
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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage?

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Originally Posted by Sammo View Post
Those are pathetic examples, we're talking about fucking normal people here. Don't come up with the 'horrible parents' argument please
Normal? What is the norm? Seriously...

also I totally agree with Kotre. You know... What would really bother me is that gay people would have the right to adopt kids but they don't do anything to make the procedure of adoption easier for sterile couples ? That would be fucked up. The whole adoption procedure is so hard, no matter the sexuality is. But that's another debate.

Back to gay couples, I don't know how that argument is valid. Maybe 50+ years ago. Not anymore as you can get a divorce quite easily and the full custody of kids. Many single moms bring up their kids, and no one is yelling at them for that. Also... Many parents, unlike you may think, are not better that homosexual couples at raising kids... not at all... my point is ... why would straight parents have the right to have kids even if they don't want them or dislike them but not gay people adopt them???? Have you thought of the many orphan, beaten up and such kids who would be happy because a couple, no matter if it's 1man/1woman or 2 women or 2men, accepted to adopt them?

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post #170 of 393 (permalink) Old Jul 31st, 2012, 01:41 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage?

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I think that the figure of both a father and a mother is very important, especially the mother, I just don't like the idea of two male homossexuals adopting children sorry.
Sammo, firstly I'd just like to say I respect your opinion

However I completely disagree with this post. The reality is there are many millions of kids who are brought up with only one parent. I have no problems with families with parent (me and my sister were brought up solely by my mum), however a lot of single parents are unfit to look after kids. Also look at how many kids are abused by their parents/caregivers. How can you say that a homosexual parent is worse for the kid, than a heterosexual parent who does not love or worse abuses their little angel.

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post #171 of 393 (permalink) Old Jul 31st, 2012, 04:48 AM
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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage?

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Sammo, firstly I'd just like to say I respect your opinion

However I completely disagree with this post. The reality is there are many millions of kids who are brought up with only one parent. I have no problems with families with parent (me and my sister were brought up solely by my mum), however a lot of single parents are unfit to look after kids. Also look at how many kids are abused by their parents/caregivers. How can you say that a homosexual parent is worse for the kid, than a heterosexual parent who does not love or worse abuses their little angel.

Yep, a lot of single parents are not fit to raise kids. I have many gay friends that have adopted, and they are the best parents that I have seen. Most recently, a lesbian couple that I am good friends with adopted a new born girl whose mother already had 7 children, and she was only 25 years old. She didn't want the 8th baby because her state aid, which increases for every child, doesn't increase after the 7th child. This girl didn't even know who the fathers were for a few of her kids. There is no way I will ever believe that this baby would be in a better situation with her birth mother, or anyone else for that matter.

I know other gay couples, including gay men, and they are wonderful parents. I think when you have to fight so hard to adopt, you make sure that you are prepared for it, and you try to be the best parent you can possibly be. I think that probably applies to heterosexual parents who adopt as well, but for gays, based on my experience, it takes much longer for them to adopt than it does heterosexuals.
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post #172 of 393 (permalink) Old Jul 31st, 2012, 05:40 AM
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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage?

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Originally Posted by Sammo View Post
I think that the figure of both a father and a mother is very important, especially the mother, I just don't like the idea of two male homossexuals adopting children sorry.

First of all, with a divorce rate well over 50%, at least here in the U.S., many kids are not being raised by a mother and a father.

Secondly, we are not in the 1950's anymore, and people are not that locked into gender roles wherein mom is the nurturer who stays home and cares for the kids, cooks, cleans, and does the laundry, while dad goes to work to support the family. A large percentage of moms work, and both parents take a role in raising the kids. So, why should it matter that two parents include both a man and a woman?

I would think it more important that two parents love each other, love their child(ren), try to set an example of how to be a good person, and are supportive of each other and their child(ren). There is nothing inherent about heterosexuals that make them possess those attributes, and there is nothing inherent about gays that makes them not possess those attributes.

I think you've got some idea in your head as to what gays are like, and that idea is all based on stereotypes that are not even true. A much greater percentage of my gay friends are in long-term, committed relationships as compared to my heterosexual friends.

Someone on this thread brought up examples of situations in which gays would make better parents, and you replied that "we're talking about 'normal people' here." Gays are as normal as heterosexuals when it comes the the attributes that would make someone a good parent; the only difference is whom they are attracted to and whom they fall in love with. Whatever someones sexual orientation is, there are some people who are fucked up and some who are responsible, decent people. Sexual orientation doesn't determine that.

Whether you want to accept the examples or not, there are heterosexuals who are horrible parents, and there are gays who are great parents. I have lesbian friends who take care of aids babies that were born to heterosexual drug-addicted mothers. I also know a gay male couple who have two children that were born to crack-heads. And you know what? None of the good heterosexuals that were looking to adopt wanted those babies. I am sure you will bring up again that that is "not normal," but it is reality. Not every heterosexual mom and dad are Ozzie and Harriet, and gay people do not match sterotypes any more than heterosexuals do.

That said, I can accept that it is your opinion that you don't think that gays should be able to adopt children. My problem is when people like you think that their opinions should form the basis of law. I personally don't like it that people who are too stupid to look at legitimate scientific research, but rather rely on their religion and/or their prejudices when forming opinions, are allowed to vote. But I don't attempt to have my opinion influence legislation.
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post #173 of 393 (permalink) Old Aug 1st, 2012, 09:04 AM
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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage?

I don't understand why this bothers anyone. Why would anyone want to ban 2 people having a legal union? Would those that do rather people pretended not to be gay and married people of the opposite sex? That makes for a happy society - NOT! I don't understand other women who would want a man to marry her when he doesn't really love her. It always dumbfounds me!

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post #174 of 393 (permalink) Old Aug 2nd, 2012, 12:32 AM
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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage?

Of course I do. There are a lot of very well-written and articulated responses supporting gay marriage and I applaud you all for explaining them so well. It's a shame really that people have to spend time explaining because I don't really think it should be up for debate. Unfortunately, I could never express my thoughts and feelings so eloquently, so I will say this: in the words of Wanda Sykes, if you don't believe in same sex marriage, then don't marry somebody of the same sex.
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post #175 of 393 (permalink) Old Aug 2nd, 2012, 02:44 AM
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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage?

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Originally Posted by Talula View Post
I don't understand other women who would want a man to marry her when he doesn't really love her. It always dumbfounds me!
From my experience, women usually support gay rights more than men. I don't know if women are generally less homophobic.


And about the whole discussion about children adoption. It's really all clear to me. There are children without parents, there are couples (gay or straight, who cares) who want to have children, but they can't. Why would anyone have anything against making those children and couples happy? There's no logical reason for people to think that gay people would be bad parents. The only issue could be homophobic society. That's why it's necessary to educate the people who have some issues. People are usually "scared" of the things they don't know much about. We shouldn't be judgemental to those people, the most important thing is to find a solution and the education seems to be the best way. So, it's necessary to have the support from governments of the countries with high level of homophobia, support from the people of big influence in general.

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post #176 of 393 (permalink) Old Aug 2nd, 2012, 02:49 AM
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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage?

I always wish I could have been adopted.

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post #177 of 393 (permalink) Old Aug 2nd, 2012, 02:51 AM
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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage?

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post #178 of 393 (permalink) Old Aug 2nd, 2012, 03:05 AM
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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage?

But of course. I want somebody at home waiting on me goddammit.


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post #179 of 393 (permalink) Old Aug 2nd, 2012, 07:52 AM
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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage?

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Originally Posted by delicatecutter View Post
I always wish I ccould have been adopted.
I have sometimes wondered what the numbers would be if children could divorce their parents and then choose their Guardians. I think it's a piece of legislation waiting to happen.

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post #180 of 393 (permalink) Old Aug 16th, 2012, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Do you support Gay Marriage?

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Originally Posted by Talula View Post
I have sometimes wondered what the numbers would be if children could divorce their parents and then choose their Guardians. I think it's a piece of legislation waiting to happen.

Thank you for everything Mercedes, now please be nice to Socrates for me, perhaps fetch him a bird or two. We love you, always.
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