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post #166 of 504 (permalink) Old Nov 21st, 2012, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
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Re: WW II thread

Hitler mentioned making an alliance with GBR to Neville Henderson; Henderson, incredibly, said

'speaking personally I did not exclude such a possibility'

alliance, surely a military one, against whom?

FO were of course flabbergasted and turned down the offer, but;

Hitler mentioned of the annihilating Poland.

Halifax deleted that reference when they sent the detail of the meeting to Poland.


And GBR was pledged to defend Poland(But of course, Chamberlain was duplicitous; they made the clause of defending Danzig a secret clause PERFECT device for GBR to backpedal AGAIN just like in Munich)

What the HELL were those guys thinking?
I guess another Munich.
They thought selling lives of peoples of OTHER nations were acceptable sacrifice to 'maintain' peace

Well, even the Pope was urging POL to surrender Danzig.

"Josiah Wedgwood, MP who despised appeasement and had visited GER, recalled how Henderson had 'smiled and fraternized with evil' "

Last edited by fantic; Nov 21st, 2012 at 07:06 PM.
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post #167 of 504 (permalink) Old Nov 21st, 2012, 07:02 PM
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Re: WW II thread

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Another issue; bombers. Was it effective?

Pin point bombing was impossible(thus blatant targetting at the civilians like GBR)
the rate of being shot down was appallingly high (practically a suicide mission)
GER's arms production didn't slow down (how did GER manage that? Did they locate all those plants underground)
Like in Italy, so much waste in bombing but didn't inflict damage that much, in fact HELPED GER defend better due to tons of debris to hide behind

Bombing JPN wasn't enough either so USA planned to invade the mainland.
So had to use the atomic bomb(NAVY thought blockading would've accomplished the mission soon, so they were against using it)
Early in the war, soldiers of any and all nationalities tended to panic upon sighting either planes or tanks. Also, even if the men didn't, the horses did--and every army except the UK's relied on horse-drawn transport in 1939. Tactical strikes were very effective early in the war and grew less so over time. However, even in Normandy in 1944 American and British Jabos were most useful against...horsedrawn transport.

As far as German production, it's true strategic bombing didn't make the huge dent that was anticipated. On the other hand, German productivity was dwarfed even by Britain's, which was never bombed to the same extent yet managed to produce more planes, more ships and as many tanks despite having a smaller population. Admittedly, the Brits did a better job of using their resources (e.g., letting women work), but they also had a lot less of their industrial capacity bombed out. The bombing campaign also tied up thousands of planes and 88s. Those 88s could have made a huge difference in Russia.

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post #168 of 504 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 04:44 AM
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Re: WW II thread

Enough of these sweeping, intelligent discussions of grand strategy and geopolitics.



Hurricane Mk 1--early model with two-blade prop! Slower than the Spit or 109, but able to take immense amounts of damage. Also, the mixed metal and fabric construction made for easier repairs.



This Hurri, believe it or not, lived to fight another day. That is robustness.

Of course, not every British weapon could claim such legendary toughness.



The A9. As tanker Bob Crisp wrote, "They looked like pre-fab housing and were even flimsier...no other nation on earth would have contemplated using them."

Max
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post #169 of 504 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 06:24 AM Thread Starter
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Re: WW II thread

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Originally Posted by miffedmax View Post
Enough of these sweeping, intelligent discussions of grand strategy and geopolitics.



Hurricane Mk 1--early model with two-blade prop! Slower than the Spit or 109, but able to take immense amounts of damage. Also, the mixed metal and fabric construction made for easier repairs.



This Hurri, believe it or not, lived to fight another day. That is robustness.

Of course, not every British weapon could claim such legendary toughness.



The A9. As tanker Bob Crisp wrote, "They looked like pre-fab housing and were even flimsier...no other nation on earth would have contemplated using them."
actually I'm rather fond of amateur armchair musings and pretty ignorant of specifics of tanks and planes

but to each his own
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post #170 of 504 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 07:43 AM
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Re: WW II thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by miffedmax View Post
Enough of these sweeping, intelligent discussions of grand strategy and geopolitics.



Hurricane Mk 1--early model with two-blade prop! Slower than the Spit or 109, but able to take immense amounts of damage. Also, the mixed metal and fabric construction made for easier repairs.



This Hurri, believe it or not, lived to fight another day. That is robustness.

Of course, not every British weapon could claim such legendary toughness.



The A9. As tanker Bob Crisp wrote, "They looked like pre-fab housing and were even flimsier...no other nation on earth would have contemplated using them."
It's funny how England was good to make planes (Hurricane, Spitfire, Typhoon, Tempest, Mosquito and some bombers) and how England sucked to make tanks like this A9 thing or the Crusader

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post #171 of 504 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 04:27 PM
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Re: WW II thread

The Crusader is AWESOME and INVINCIBLE!!!!!!!!!


Max
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post #172 of 504 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: WW II thread

didn't GBR make the 1st tank during WWI? I heard Churchill pushed the program then

Well, they did invent Radar? Also invented sonar but it wasn't so good during the early phase of
WWII, it was discredited.
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post #173 of 504 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 06:19 PM
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Re: WW II thread

Well, they did a lot of groundbreaking work on radar. The Germans had their own version, they were just a little behind the British and emphasized range finding over detection. (This had both positive and negative consequences for the Bismarck, for example).

The British actually started developing ASDIC or SONAR during World War I, but the first working sets weren't available until after the war was over. It was unreliable at first, and even worse wouldn't work if the destroyer's engines were running because of the noise. This led to "sprint and drift" tactics, where a destroyer would accelerate to top speed and kill its engines, then search for subs until it coasted to a near stop, then accelerate again. The problem was that, of course, a good U-boat skipper could hide in the wake of the "sprint" and the coasting destroyer was losing momentum and vulnerable to attack. But a good destroyer skipper (and ASDIC man) could make it work. Later sets were more accurate and worked with the engines on.

The Brits and the French were working on tank designs concurrently in WWI, but the British designs were finished first. The French FT, however, is the design that set the template for almost every tank since--



It introduced a rotating turret, engine in the rear, main gun in the turret, and hatches for the crew. Only a few designs like the French B1, the U.S. Lee, Swedish "S" and the Israeli Merkava have deviated from this template in the last 100 years.

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post #174 of 504 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 07:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: WW II thread

the biggest enemy of the Londoners during the 'Bore War' was the dark; blackout

But to make the best of it, 'young couple would enjoy intercourse in a shop doorway on the fringe
of passing crowds, screened by another couple waiting to perform the same adventure'

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post #175 of 504 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 2012, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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Re: WW II thread

Mancheser page 620

"Of the last 500 R-35 tanks(said to be superior to the German ones at that time) produced before May 10,235 were sold to Turkey, Yugoslavia, Rumania. Thus, only 90 were left when GER invaded France.

They also auctioned off 500 artillery pieces, complete with ammunition, and 830 antitank guns-when
they were desperately short of both weapons, abroad."

Mon dieu!

Gamelin really should've shot himself, or commit harakiri No sense of honor, I'm afraid I mean, it's like they were being bribed by GER

Well, Weygand and Petain, who replaced Gamelin(G was at least a staunch Republican) were WORSE, they sold their country to GER; such a tragedy.

The character of leader is SO important, I guess. GBR was saved by Churchill. FRA had no Foch, Clemenceau, Poincare..hence the inevitable doom. They were just not cut out for leading the nation during wartime..
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post #176 of 504 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 2012, 03:40 AM
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Re: WW II thread



r-35


Somua 35

The R-35 (above) was arguably better than its German equivalents, the Panzer Mk 1 and Mk II, being better armored. It's main gun was a low-velocity 37 mm, better than the Mk I's machine guns, but not really any better than the 20mm of the Mk II. The German tanks were more reliable.

The Somua 35 was a different story. It had better armor and a better main gun than the German Mk III, better performance. Its main drawbacks: a one-man turret (typical of French designs) that forced the commander to do too many things; a hatch design that forced the tank to fight "buttoned up" (most tank commanders preferred to close their hatches at the last possible moment to maximize their visibility, but the hatch design was so cumbersome it had to be closed and kept closed) and a terrible suspension.

Still, the biggest problem with French tanks wasn't their design, it was the way they were deployed, in small tactical units. One Somua was more than a match for a Mk III; but the Mk IIIs always had the Somua's outnumbered.

Max
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post #177 of 504 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 2012, 03:44 AM Thread Starter
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Re: WW II thread

Holland learned the invasion on Mar 3, a week before, by Abewehr officer and Vatican.

They immediately informed Belgium.

They didn't inform FRA or GBR

--------

By this time, Churchill was trying to meet the deadline for his book 'History of the English People'



He was in the war cabinet and he was writing a history book Wonder if the book is good, could he
truly concentrate on the book?

Gemeinnutz vor Eigennutz! ; The common interest before self interest!

Terrific slogan for the elite..but this was in fact a popular slogan in Nazi Germany

(Well they WERE national SOCIALISTS )
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post #178 of 504 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 2012, 05:59 AM
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Re: WW II thread

"History of the English People" is something of a classic of nonprofessional history. Churchill was an excellent writer, having cut his teeth as a journalist. He was also a man of boundless energy. As his Chief of Staff Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke (one of the less appreciated architects of the Allied victory) said "The problem with Winston is that he has ten grand ideas every day, and nine of them are bad."

Max
Pass the duct tape and super glue. Lena's done broke my heart one last time.
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Elena Viatcheslavovna Dementieva--Eternal Goddess of the Divine Bangs
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post #179 of 504 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 2012, 08:10 AM
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Re: WW II thread

I see you're talking about French tanks of the WW2

Some of them were not that bad, like the S-35, but as miffedmax said, the use of these tanks (a small number alongside with infantry like in WW1) was foolish against the German tactics using lots of tanks together... At this time, only a few French officers like De Gaulle understood the benefits of using tanks as a main force.

Here is the best French plane at the beginning of the war, the Dewoitine D.520 :



It had a Hispano-Suiza V12 water-cooled engine developing 935 HP enabling a 540 km/h top speed and a 11.000 m ceiling.

The armament was 4 x 7.5 mm machine guns in the wings and a 20 mm gun in the propeller axis.

This plane could match the German Bf109-E of this time but too few of them were delivered to the French Air Force (only 351)...

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post #180 of 504 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 2012, 04:10 PM
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Re: WW II thread

Yes, but what the French truly specialized in was building truly hideous bombers...



The F222.



The MB 210.



The L570.

Max
Pass the duct tape and super glue. Lena's done broke my heart one last time.
Onward my LOB! Lena (ret.) Vika Vee TOB Caro Alexa Sabs Wicky Lesia Vania BMS Ekat Andi H. Jo-La Lena V KP2 Lil Bit Kiki Mini Mak Baby Veronika
V Squad, The LOB Elite: Vika, Venus and the Mad Viking of Norrland
Jo-La Duchess of Norrland and Bastad
Elena Viatcheslavovna Dementieva--Eternal Goddess of the Divine Bangs
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