What happened in Bosnia 1992~1994? - TennisForum.com

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post #1 of 86 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2011, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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What happened in Bosnia 1992~1994?

My source is

Slaughterhouse: Bosnia and the Failure of the West

Major players; UN (Boutros Boutros-Ghali) , John Major, Mitterand, Bush, Clintons, Yeltsin..

It was the most infuriating book I ever read. These guys can be said to even 'abet' the genocide of Muslims.

Just like in Munchen 1938, France and Great Britain NEVER wanted to be involved...they made sure Bosnian should be massacred by putting an embargo on weapons through that area, while Serbia had ALL the weapons

Clintons were so alike FDR in the Spanish Civil War (Bosnia wasn't even a war, since at the initial stages Bosnians didn't even possess weapons ) and until the WW2, all words, nothing doing. (Bosnia was one of his major presidential campaign promises)

Now UN, they were practically like Chamberlain

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post #2 of 86 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2011, 07:17 PM
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Re: What happened in Bosnia 1992~1994?

15 years later, a Western creation called Bosnia and Herzegovina is about to fall apart because Serbs and Bosniaks living in it can't agree on anything. B&H even got kicked out of Euro champ Q because they couldnt agree on who will be a president of football association
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post #3 of 86 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2011, 07:20 PM
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Re: What happened in Bosnia 1992~1994?

i think you should post linkes to the individual posts that lead to the creation of this thread (yours, mine, brena's melange's and jr's), just so people understand the context.

i hope this discussion will be serious and respectful, though it's usually not the case.

i might post more about the abuse of memory of the appeasment policy in bosnia and elsewhere, but not tonight. it's friday, we so excited, fun fun fun fun

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post #4 of 86 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2011, 07:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What happened in Bosnia 1992~1994?

^ you're right.

It all started from

HERE from my post #170, a reply to Brena's post. Reading a couple of pages from there should be helpful?
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post #5 of 86 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2011, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What happened in Bosnia 1992~1994?

The creation of B-H should be discussed of course, as JR said on the other thread. Germany was the first to recognize Bosnia, I think. Immediately after that Serbia commenced the 'operation'..
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post #6 of 86 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2011, 08:17 PM
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Re: What happened in Bosnia 1992~1994?

Wait, are you posting information or asking a question?

There is a lot of well-researched, academic literature on this topic. I don't think a tennis forum is the right place to ask for the details of this very complicated historical event.

From my experience, Serbs, Croats, and Bosnian Muslims will all tell you different things. Some people are genuinely interested in reconciliation and reaching out to the other side, but a lot of people (especially young people) are very nationalistic in their outlook.
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post #7 of 86 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2011, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What happened in Bosnia 1992~1994?

well, one can recommend related literature I guess? Discussion of various motives and policies and facts might be useful, at least interesting
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post #8 of 86 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2011, 09:20 PM
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Re: What happened in Bosnia 1992~1994?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fantic View Post
^ you're right.

It all started from

HERE from my post #170, a reply to Brena's post. Reading a couple of pages from there should be helpful?
You might ask the generally diplomatic and well informed Joana, who I sometimes refer to as Ste. Joana of Beograd for her perspective. Anyhow, my post that you kindly referred to from that thread:

Probably, because the story of the former Yugoslavia was far more complicated than most ppl in the West thought. Sure Slobo did some bad things (and quasi-independent allies of his like Arkan worse ones) but the fact remains that even after seeing that the Croatian secession led to a war, George HW Bush forced the creation of a new state called Bosnia-Hercegovina that had never existed, had a large Serbian minority, and no real means to defend its newfound sovereignty. (He's ovarated as a foreign policy genius IMO, mainly because he wisely didn't try to conquer Iraq after Desert Storm).
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post #9 of 86 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2011, 09:55 PM
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Re: What happened in Bosnia 1992~1994?

I've always thought this is a very interesting topic maybe becuase I've never found any answers to really make me understand what happened.

I don't think anybody in Venezuela would have a clue or at least know what happened there, well maybe history teachers...

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post #10 of 86 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2011, 10:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What happened in Bosnia 1992~1994?

Quote:
Originally Posted by *JR* View Post
You might ask the generally diplomatic and well informed Joana, who I sometimes refer to as Ste. Joana of Beograd for her perspective. Anyhow, my post that you kindly referred to from that thread:

Probably, because the story of the former Yugoslavia was far more complicated than most ppl in the West thought. Sure Slobo did some bad things (and quasi-independent allies of his like Arkan worse ones) but the fact remains that even after seeing that the Croatian secession led to a war, George HW Bush forced the creation of a new state called Bosnia-Hercegovina that had never existed, had a large Serbian minority, and no real means to defend its newfound sovereignty. (He's ovarated as a foreign policy genius IMO, mainly because he wisely didn't try to conquer Iraq after Desert Storm).
I was meaning to post your post directly here

THIS

After Germany recognized Bosnia, Serbs (former Yugoslavian Army) took control of the weapons in Bosnia..Bosnians were totally unprepared when the disaster struck. It was even worse than the Spanish Civil War, in that it was a veritable massacre, not a 'fighting'. Milosevic intended to get their Serbian share as MUCH as possible, so the means they employed was to force Bosnians to desert their home and move away..terror tactics were employed.

Later Bosnians in turn were 'radicalized' (so called 'thugs' were fighting)..and NATO FINALLY intervened from 1996 or something. But the damage was done by then.

This was the major cause for the Clinton administration to plot the removal of Boutros-Ghali from the Sec. General of UN. B-G was quite favorable to the Serbian 'cause'.. (Yeltsin's Russia -especially ultra right nationalists-of course too)

Was the creation of B-H a mistake? Was there an hidden agenda by the US or the West?
Was Serbia a 'victim' (as they are fond to say. Yugoslavia was actually not economically bad before the disaster struck) ?
What about the Bosnians? What were they exactly then?
What WAS Milosevic's intention and policy?
Was NATO intervention justified? Or was it too late?
(since there was no 'strategic interest' a.k.a. Oil? Richard Holbrooke in his BOOK discusses this)

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post #11 of 86 (permalink) Old May 6th, 2011, 10:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What happened in Bosnia 1992~1994?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarl_02 View Post
I've always thought this is a very interesting topic maybe becuase I've never found any answers to really make me understand what happened.

I don't think anybody in Venezuela would have a clue or at least know what happened there, well maybe history teachers...
me too.
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post #12 of 86 (permalink) Old May 7th, 2011, 12:23 AM
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Re: What happened in Bosnia 1992~1994?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fantic View Post
Was NATO intervention justified? Or was it too late?
(since there was no 'strategic interest' a.k.a. Oil? Richard Holbrooke in his BOOK discusses this)
Well I saw a TV show and they said that something really curious was that some fights in Bosnia were done in places kinda rich in oil, I don't know if the serbs knew that but I think I remember that the host of the show said the serbs wanted to have those areas, so maybe Oil was a very hidden motive.

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post #13 of 86 (permalink) Old May 7th, 2011, 01:42 AM
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Re: What happened in Bosnia 1992~1994?

Quote:
Was the creation of B-G a mistake? Was there an hidden agenda by the US or the West?
I assume you meant B&H. Bosnia is a very small country with total size of Vermont and New Hampshire combined. There is no value for the west or the US to meddle in the affairs of such a small country with little strategic value. Serb and Serb-sympathizing conspiracy theorists like *JR* try to say that the break-up of Yugoslavia in general was some kind of a plot by west and the US but there is no factual component to it. Comments like this
Quote:
George HW Bush forced the creation of a new state called Bosnia-Hercegovina
have no basis in reality and are blind conspiracy theories cooked up by Serbia sympathizers to justify Serbia's behavior .

Whether the creation of Bosnia was a mistake or not depends upon whether you believe that people have a right to self-determination or not. Even you disagree, it is clear that Serbia overreacted with the violence.

Quote:
Was Serbia a 'victim' (as they are fond to say. Yugoslavia was actually not economically bad before the disaster struck) ?
I have to laugh anytime someone tries to paint the Serbs as the victims. Serbs are the common thread that ties all the yugoslav wars together, first against Slovenia, then against Croatia, then against Bosnia and then against Kosovo. Serbs are the common denominator in all these conflicts. Serbs are still incredibly bitter about everything, the party with the most seats in Serbia has the establishment of "Greater Serbia" as part of their platform. That party ran a war-criminal for president. I would say there are more Serb nationalists by proportion than nationalists of any other group from former Yugoslavia. They are still fighting the battles of the past and are holding back coutries like Bosnia, Montenegro & Kosovo. There was a time when I used to care about these issues and I got into fights with member of this forum but I could care less now. I just want Serbia to leave its neighbors alone and mind its own business. Serbia can have Republica Srpska for all I care. I congratulate Slovenia for escaping the wretched claws of Serbia. Slovenes are lucky that their country is far from Serbia.
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post #14 of 86 (permalink) Old May 7th, 2011, 02:23 AM Thread Starter
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Re: What happened in Bosnia 1992~1994?

The book I read says that Slovenia had no problem when they seceeded because there were no Serbs living in that territory.
But Croatia and Bosnia were a different matter, it seems.
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post #15 of 86 (permalink) Old May 7th, 2011, 02:28 AM
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Re: What happened in Bosnia 1992~1994?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fantic View Post
well, one can recommend related literature I guess? Discussion of various motives and policies and facts might be useful, at least interesting
http://books.google.com/books?id=-4e...%20war&f=false

This gives some great background and is considered pretty exhaustive.
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