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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2008, 01:48 AM Thread Starter
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teacher burns crosses into students hand to teach science

There's an ugly case brewing in Ohio. A popular middle school science teacher has been ordered to remove his copy of the bible from his desk. On the face of it, I think letting a teacher have a bible on his desk or on his person should not be a problem — it's nothing but a personal tchotchke, and it's not worth fighting over. John Freshwater, though, has made it more than an expression of personal preference. He is proselytizing in the public school classroom. Freshwater is responsible for turning this into a church-state separation case; he's one of those particularly obnoxious Christians who wrap themselves in sanctimony and loudly demand that they have more than a right to believe (a right I would defend), they have a right to tell their students what they must believe, and who uses every opportunity to evangelize in defiance of his professional responsibilities.

The school has a right and an obligation to tell him to knock it off, and if he won't comply, they should hold him in violation of his contract and fire him. But I wouldn't have him fired for being a pretentious Christian, only for refusal to do his job.

There's another reason he should be fired, however, and the school district should take advantage of his intransigence over his stupid bible to kick his sorry ass off the faculty. He's an incompetent science teacher.

In one class, Freshwater used Lego pieces to describe the beginning of the world. He dumped the pieces, then asked students if the Legos could assemble by themselves, said Joe Stuart, 18, assistant editor of the high-school newspaper.

When Freshwater taught students about electrical current, he used a device to leave a red mark in the shape of a cross on the forearms of some students, Stuart said.

"If it were just about the Bible, I don't think people would have a problem with it," Stuart said.

In his evaluations through the 21 years he's worked for the district, Freshwater has drawn consistent praise for his strong rapport with students, broad knowledge of his subject matter and engaging teaching style.

In 2006, he was instructed to remove from his curriculum a handout titled "Darwin's Theory of Evolution — The Premise and the Problem." A parent had questioned its validity and use in a science classroom.

Mr Stuart is wise. It's not the bible at all. It's that he's a deluded creationist teaching lies to students in a science class. Unfortunately, there's little recourse for expelling bad teachers (and his popularity is not an indication that he's a good teacher, don't make that mistake) on the basis of incompetence.

And the cross thing is just plain bizarre. Burning religious symbols into students' flesh is not a way to teach them about the physics of electricity; what next, will he teach about the chemistry of oxidation reactions by burning heretical students at a stake? Even religious parents in the community are disturbed by this kook:

The fax stated, "We are religious people, but we were offended when Mr. Freshwater burned a cross onto the arm of our child. This was done in science class in December 2007, where an electric shock machine was used to burn our child. The burn was severe enough that our child awoke that night with severe pain, and the cross remained there for several weeks. ... We have tried to keep this a private matter and hesitate to tell the whole story to the media for fear that we will be retaliated against."

These same parents also expressed the key issue in separation of church and state:

Short said it is alleged that Freshwater used his classroom to advance religion and that he teaches his own beliefs from the Bible and not the approved curriculum. In the fax, the parents also said, "We are Christians who practice our faith where it belongs, at church and in our home and, most importantly, outside the public classroom, where the law requires a separation of church and state."

Freshwater can believe whatever he wants. When he decides to use his public school classroom to shove his beliefs down student throats, he's in the wrong and should obey the order to keep his class secular. And when his personal beliefs so scramble his judgment that he can't even teach the evidence and logic of science, his professional duty, fire him.

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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2008, 01:51 AM
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Re: teacher burns crosses into students hand to teach science

your writing or copied from somewhere, and if copied, source please?
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2008, 01:52 AM Thread Starter
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Re: teacher burns crosses into students hand to teach science

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2..._for_the_r.php

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...2.html?sid=101

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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2008, 02:14 AM
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Re: teacher burns crosses into students hand to teach science

Thanks. Somebody's blog writing, I guess.
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2008, 06:07 AM
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Re: teacher burns crosses into students hand to teach science

If he actually burned a cross into a student's arm, this is a simple case of assault, and a police matter.

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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2008, 11:28 AM
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Re: teacher burns crosses into students hand to teach science

"It's that he's a deluded creationist teaching lies to students in a science class."

That annoys me! They are lies in the opinion of the person doing the writing, not everyone else.
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2008, 12:31 PM
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Re: teacher burns crosses into students hand to teach science

Quote:
Originally Posted by *abby* View Post
"It's that he's a deluded creationist teaching lies to students in a science class."

That annoys me! They are lies in the opinion of the person doing the writing, not everyone else.
you actually think creationism is right ?
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2008, 02:11 PM
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Re: teacher burns crosses into students hand to teach science

Ugh! Creationism, what a load of crap!

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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2008, 02:21 PM
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Re: teacher burns crosses into students hand to teach science

Quote:
Originally Posted by *abby* View Post
"It's that he's a deluded creationist teaching lies to students in a science class."

That annoys me! They are lies in the opinion of the person doing the writing, not everyone else.
lol you critiqued a generalisation with a generalisation

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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2008, 02:42 PM
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Re: teacher burns crosses into students hand to teach science

Gee, where are all the supporters of his freedom of religion now? Anyone who is that antagonistic regarding flaunting his "faith" is generally a nutbag... at least that's what I've seen repeatedly.

I hope the guy is fired and the school system is sued and the christo-fascists sect of my religion gain another martyr for their worthless cause. What a horrible excuse for a teacher. Surely the school and school system knew of this beforehand.


He sounds like he belongs in a loony bin, not a classroom.

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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2008, 04:08 PM
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Re: teacher burns crosses into students hand to teach science

He was burning his students with a cross? And they just sat there and took it? It seems kinda fishy to me that high school students (most obnoxious, loud, unwilling students in the world) would just sit there and let themselves get burned with a cross.

If it did indeed happen, the teacher needs to be arrested because chances are, most of the students are under the age of 18 which means he can go to jail for causing harm to minors. He's a disgusting bible thumping child molester and he needs to go to jail where he can spend his nights with a big burly man named Little Debbie.

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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2008, 04:28 PM
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Re: teacher burns crosses into students hand to teach science

If he physically harmed a child in any way, the child should have reported it (any of the students),
and the school should have done something about it then.

Personally, that's a reason to suspend someone or fire them.

I find it strange it didn't come up before in his tenure.

No, he can't promote Christianity in a public school in his job as a teacher.
He can't force a student to accept his ideas or beliefs.
He can't hurt a student.

If they find he did any of those things, the district should take action.

Period. No two ways about it.

However, this has been going on for a long time?
Previous complaints?
Or new made up things?
Not sure. A full investigation should go forth.

No teacher has a right to harm a student.




He can no more force a student to adhere to one view than a liberal nutcase teacher can do the
same. Although, that normally happens in schools and colleges every day, and no one says anything.
Conservative students are forced to be silent as a teacher or professor shades a class subject
in far left ideas and philosphy - to the exclusion of any other view.

As for the Bible, and other things he may have which are objectionable to some...he's trying to make
a point. If it was Koran, or he had a prayer mat in his room for his own use, would the school district
do the same thing? I doubt it, they'd fold up like a cheap suit to be PC.


There is a case here where a student reported a teacher who degraded his christian beliefs in class - telling
him they were nonsense, stupid, etc. More than a few times. He reported it, and some rallied to his side.
The teacher had a long time anti-Christian, anti-religion view that he pushed on every class. If you went
against it, he would harm you with a poor grade - it is alleged. That's up for review now too.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2008, 06:25 PM
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Re: teacher burns crosses into students hand to teach science

If anyone had done that to my kid, losing his job would be the least of his worries.

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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2008, 06:37 PM
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Re: teacher burns crosses into students hand to teach science

Quote:
Originally Posted by marmotte View Post
you actually think creationism is right ?
yes i do, so what?
is it really that absurd?
i'd rather believe that we were created by God than that we all morphed out of little blobs via fish, lizards, monkeys and whatever else.
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old Apr 24th, 2008, 06:38 PM
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Re: teacher burns crosses into students hand to teach science

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alizé Molik View Post
lol you critiqued a generalisation with a generalisation
i was meaning that he shouldn't write as though he's speaking on behalf of everyone else when he clearly doesnt know everyone elses opinion on it
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