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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old Oct 19th, 2007, 06:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quickly, buy defense contractors shares.

I read in the newspaper (too lazy to find a link, it's the Canadian National Post if you want to check it) that Putin has said that the Americans want Russian natural resources and that the only thing that prevents Russian from having Iraq's fate is its military might.
He said that Russia will develop new nuclear weapons, submarines, strategic bombers, etc.
Maybe he said that just for Russian consumption, but the fact is that the Russians are rebuilding their military capability (recently they started to send nuclear armed long range bombers (the "bear") again near western countries airspace, forcing them to scramble fighter jets to intercept them).
Whatever the intentions are, it looks it's cold war all over again. The folks at Boeing, Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and other could not be happier.
They no longer need small wars, to sell a few cheap missiles and bombs, the big items will come back.
The Pentagon scaled down the procurement of advanced aircraft such as the F22 and the B2B on the grounds they weren't necessary for the type of wars the US was fighting and were too expensive. I guess new orders for the F22A Raptor and the B2B bomber will come soon, military satellites, ICBMs, submarines, research for the next generation fighter jet, you know, the kind of big items the defense boys make a living of, no those discounted cruise missiles that sell for a mere half million dollars a piece, no, get a few Raptors for 100 million +, or a B2 for 1.5 billion.
Maybe Putin owns Lockeed-Martin shares? (I am not sure this is a joke).
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old Oct 19th, 2007, 08:15 PM
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Re: Quickly, buy defense contractors shares.

Putin is determined to go back to the KGB good old days.

Buy stock in China.
China is pulling all the strings these days with Iran, North
Korea, and probably even Russia, and Venezuela. They buy
the bulk of the world oil, and produce the bulk of the
worlds cheap manufacturing nowadays.



Putin silenced his opposition.
Had them arrested.
Note the odd 'spy' deaths around the world,
reporters killed, etc., in and out of Russia.

He's pretty much put his dummy replacement in
the top job.
But, somehow created it so his 'new' job is
really the leader of the nation (again).
Putin didn't really step down at all.

He's been busy building up the Russian arsenal.
Cementing ties to China and Iran and North Korea.
Using an iron fist to fight the Chechnya rebels,
especially after the theater attack and the
massacre of the school kids. All things which
would get the American media in a tizzy if tactics
like his were used here.

He's done all of this w/o much American news media
reporting on his scams and deals and Cold War tactics.

The world has fixated on Bush Hating.
Ignoring what he was saying about Iran and North Korea,
and their allies. Like China. Hopefully, we can make
more headway w/North Korea on the nuke plans. As they
have lately.

All the while China and Russia have tried to reinvent the
Cold War, with more muscle, oil, and financial power in China.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old Oct 20th, 2007, 01:45 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Quickly, buy defense contractors shares.









The pentagon will be adding a lot of these.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old Oct 20th, 2007, 04:17 PM
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Re: Quickly, buy defense contractors shares.

Fingon, I think I read this too.

Pathetic. This comes at a time when there are people in western countries protesting against their own governments and chastising them for defending the country. Meanwhile, Russia and China continue to build their armies of doom.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old Oct 20th, 2007, 06:15 PM
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Re: Quickly, buy defense contractors shares.

War is good for the business, bad for the people.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old Oct 20th, 2007, 06:19 PM
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Re: Quickly, buy defense contractors shares.

america is too bankrupt to buy anything
a country that cannot win a war in iraq cannot even dream of invading russia

the next century will be of china's domination over first asia and then the globe

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old Oct 20th, 2007, 06:29 PM
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Re: Quickly, buy defense contractors shares.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lalit View Post
america is too bankrupt to buy anything
a country that cannot win a war in iraq cannot even dream of invading russia

the next century will be of china's domination over first asia and then the globe
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchin...nt_6187965.htm
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 2007, 12:00 AM
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Re: Quickly, buy defense contractors shares.

well these days you either turn your ass US way and let it do what it wants with it or get called names, invaded and divided into small insignificant countries nobody pays attention to (and then you have to turn the ass...).

to samsung

1.Putin has 80% support among Russians (according to non-russian think tanks), Bush has 20% in USA - something to consider when you talk on who doesn't deserve to be the president

2. Bush dad- bill clinton-bush the idiot- hillary clinton --- that's to your argument about replacements. so you need to talk more about that

3. NATO (read USA) promised to Gorbachev many years ago to never move its boarders closer to Russia if Russia breaks USSR. They started moving it even when Russia was a puppet and was no threat to ANY European country let alone USA. Moreover, it was explicitely said that the most Russia could hope is to have a special partnership with NATO and not membership (so another bs). This is to your argument on Russia starting a cold war. It has never been over in minds of those in the Western world who make money selling/making weapons

4. As for Bush hating, he is hated for what he did in Iraq. As much as you hate China and Russia as evil doers, they have a long way to go to match Bush's "achievements" in the "evil" department. Also, it's not Russia's or China's fault that Americans elect the dumbest president in the world in a looooong time (or let him steal the elections).

So get your facts straight before spitting bullsh*t here

Vassilissa is my girl............
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 2007, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Quickly, buy defense contractors shares.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lalit View Post
america is too bankrupt to buy anything
a country that cannot win a war in iraq cannot even dream of invading russia

the next century will be of china's domination over first asia and then the globe
America will never invade Russia, are you dreaming? that's not happening.

It's about keeping the balance of power, that was what the cold war was all about, American and Russians knew if they attacked each other the world would be destroyed.

I never said a word about war, I talked about rebuilding the military capabilities.

And China won't dominate, mark my words, it's too uncontrolable and it's starting to show problems, my prediction is that in several years China will be split in several pieces, I can't see it continuing holding together a 1.3 billion people country just by keeping people in the dark, the great majority of Chinese are seeing no benefits from the economic boom and that will be trouble soon, there is a point the communist goverment won't be able to control the country, but it's uncontrolable.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 2007, 12:17 AM
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Re: Quickly, buy defense contractors shares.

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Originally Posted by Fingon View Post
America will never invade Russia, are you dreaming? that's not happening.

It's about keeping the balance of power, that was what the cold war was all about, American and Russians knew if they attacked each other the world would be destroyed.

I never said a word about war, I talked about rebuilding the military capabilities.

And China won't dominate, mark my words, it's too uncontrolable and it's starting to show problems, my prediction is that in several years China will be split in several pieces, I can't see it continuing holding together a 1.3 billion people country just by keeping people in the dark, the great majority of Chinese are seeing no benefits from the economic boom and that will be trouble soon, there is a point the communist goverment won't be able to control the country, but it's uncontrolable.
i guess invading went too far
it cant even confront Russia currently
as for china you are talking the same way as people did when they were referring to japan in the 60s before it went on to become a economic superpower
the only difference is that china will become a military superpower as well
btw : just to make it clear i am thankful for democracy that allows me to express my opinion
but i am also a realist that sees that a dictatorship can achieve great things ( yes a dictatorship china is only a communist nation in name)

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 2007, 12:20 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Quickly, buy defense contractors shares.

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Originally Posted by lalit View Post
america is too bankrupt to buy anything
a country that cannot win a war in iraq cannot even dream of invading russia

the next century will be of china's domination over first asia and then the globe
in addition, and this hypothetical because it won't happen a war against Russia would be very, very different.

First, the US did win the war in Iraq, and did it very quickly, what it has failed is in stabilizing Iraq, like the Russians in Afghanistan, they have been unable to contain the insurgency, but their target, what the military planners targetted was the Iraqui army, and they won that.

Coming back to Russia, they would not be facing a poorly trained and poorly equiped army and an unexistent air force, but one that can match their own, the Russians have satellites, awacs, advanced air to air missiles, cruise missiles, a power fleet and let me emphasize this nuclear weapons
not like North Korea or even China, the Russians are perfectly capable of reaching any part of the continental United States, it's not a matter of just the west coast or Hawaii being in danger as the most pessimistic evaluations of North Korea's capabilities have stated, but the whole territory, including Washington, New York, Chicago and every other american city.

The Russians are in the same situation, every square inch of Russian territory is within range of American missiles and bombers, that's why both sides made huge efforts in times of crisis to solve it (e.g. Berlin 1948, the missiles crisis, etc.).

During the cold war, each country was hoping they would get a temporary advantage that would allow them to strike first, that's why the Americans panicked when a Russian pilot defected to Japan with a Mig 25, the result was the rush development of the F15.

That was one of the reason the soviet union fell, the americans under Reagan raised the bets with the so called star wars and the Russian economy simply couldn't keep up.

One thing should be noticed is that also in absolute terms the US invest more on defense than the Russian or Chinese, Both Russia and China spend a lot more as a percentage of their gross product. American military technology is often later used for commercial purposes and gets a return on investment (e.g. the new Boeing 787 uses a lot of technologies developped for the F22, something that rarely happens in China and Russia.

the cold war was always my favourite geopolitical topic, I always predicted it would be back eventually, and it may surprised many, but I think the world was a much safer place during the cold war than after it, maybe we are heading back in that direction.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 2007, 12:27 AM
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Re: Quickly, buy defense contractors shares.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingon View Post
in addition, and this hypothetical because it won't happen a war against Russia would be very, very different.

First, the US did win the war in Iraq, and did it very quickly, what it has failed is in stabilizing Iraq, like the Russians in Afghanistan, they have been unable to contain the insurgency, but their target, what the military planners targetted was the Iraqui army, and they won that.

Coming back to Russia, they would not be facing a poorly trained and poorly equiped army and an unexistent air force, but one that can match their own, the Russians have satellites, awacs, advanced air to air missiles, cruise missiles, a power fleet and let me emphasize this nuclear weapons
not like North Korea or even China, the Russians are perfectly capable of reaching any part of the continental United States, it's not a matter of just the west coast or Hawaii being in danger as the most pessimistic evaluations of North Korea's capabilities have stated, but the whole territory, including Washington, New York, Chicago and every other american city.

The Russians are in the same situation, every square inch of Russian territory is within range of American missiles and bombers, that's why both sides made huge efforts in times of crisis to solve it (e.g. Berlin 1948, the missiles crisis, etc.).

During the cold war, each country was hoping they would get a temporary advantage that would allow them to strike first, that's why the Americans panicked when a Russian pilot defected to Japan with a Mig 25, the result was the rush development of the F15.

That was one of the reason the soviet union fell, the americans under Reagan raised the bets with the so called star wars and the Russian economy simply couldn't keep up.

One thing should be noticed is that also in absolute terms the US invest more on defense than the Russian or Chinese, Both Russia and China spend a lot more as a percentage of their gross product. American military technology is often later used for commercial purposes and gets a return on investment (e.g. the new Boeing 787 uses a lot of technologies developped for the F22, something that rarely happens in China and Russia.

the cold war was always my favourite geopolitical topic, I always predicted it would be back eventually, and it may surprised many, but I think the world was a much safer place during the cold war than after it, maybe we are heading back in that direction.
assuming that you are canadian
you would know as well as i do that the war in iraq was about oil and in that sense the US has failed in the war
i mean whats the use of a war without gaining some war booty

as for a new cold war yes it will happen between china and the USA
primarily fought over asia as USA keeps on ceding space to china in the asia pacific region
japan and india will try to balance china but will fail
however a few things are in order
taiwan will go back under chinese control
asean countries will come under china's influnce
india , japan and usa will form some sort of alliance
russia wil blow hot blow cold with both USA and china

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 2007, 12:52 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Quickly, buy defense contractors shares.

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Originally Posted by lalit View Post
i guess invading went too far
it cant even confront Russia currently
neither Russia can confront the US, they have nuclear weapons, remember.
Quote:
as for china you are talking the same way as people did when they were referring to japan in the 60s before it went on to become a economic superpower
you can't even dream of comparing Japan with China. Japan has 10% of China's population, and does not have a fraction of social problems China has.

Just feeding everyone is a huge problem in China, the more the economy grows, the more difficult it will be for the government to keep control, they can block the internet only for so long.

One reason why China was never under the control of a foreign power (with the exception of the Mongols), despite being very weak at time was its size, they could not digest it. Japan or Great Britain controlled parts of the country but never the whole of it.

the Chinese goverment is having increased problems to keep people uninformed so they won't go to claim their part, we are talking about 1.3 billion people, I repeat, 1.3 billiong people.

In addition, they are accumulating a huge amount of reserves, some think that gives them a lot of power, it does not.

I remember reading a comment by John D. Rockefeller once, he said, if you owe a bank 1 million dollars, you have a problem, if you owe 100 million, then the bank has a problem.

That's precisely their problem, they have to hope the US economy keeps going otherwise their currency reserves are worth nothing and they won't have a market to sell, it's the very same problem Japan and Germany faced before. The Chinese economy is growing very fast, but it is very, very far from being a developed economy, their infrastructure is far from ready and several parts of the country haven't advanced to the 21st century, Shanghai, Beijing and Guanzhou are not China.

Saying that just because some people were wrong predicting Japan's dismissal that China will follow the same patter is , to put it mild, streching it, more than a bit, you can't say that because some people misjudged an Asian country years ago the same will happen now.

And btw, there were a lot of predictions that Japan would dominate the world when they started to accumulate a lot of reserves and they started to see Japanese made goods all over the place, that never was the case.

Nobody denies that China will be one of the most important economic powers, but it will not be a dominant power, not in its current form, maybe if they split the country, the eastern part could become a superpower, but right now, it has too much to drag on.
Quote:
the only difference is that china will become a military superpower as well
China is a military superpower, and has been for a while, they have nuclear weapons and it's one of the few countries capable of striking with them effectively (India and Pakistan could not strike the US or Great Britain for example). They have the most numerous army and it has been like that since the times of Mao, so what else is new?
Quote:
btw : just to make it clear i am thankful for democracy that allows me to express my opinion
I am as well
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but i am also a realist that sees that a dictatorship can achieve great things ( yes a dictatorship china is only a communist nation in name)
hmm, yes, for a short period of time, as history shows, it's beyond the topic but there are reasons why dictatorships cannot maintain their power for too long, particulary true in the 20th century (I am talking of a truely global power, not just over their own country). Look at the nazis, the Japanese, the Soviet Union, even China had to relax its rules at least in the economic front.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 2007, 01:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Quickly, buy defense contractors shares.

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Originally Posted by lalit View Post
assuming that you are canadian
you would know as well as i do that the war in iraq was about oil and in that sense the US has failed in the war
i mean whats the use of a war without gaining some war booty
that's not the point. First of all, I am not too sure it was something that simple, it wasn't IMO about just taking Iraq's oil, that would have been too obvious and wouldn't work. It was more about strategic control of the region, not just Iraq, about asserting US influence in the area. Had the US been succesful in quicky pacifying Iraq, then when they asked Syria for example to do something they would rush to do it otherwise they would be next.
but again, you are confusing the political objetives of the war with the war itself, the US generals were asked to defeat the Iraqi armed forces, and they did it very efficiently, and I am sure the Russian and the Chinese took note of that, the problem is that the army is not designed to control territory, it is not a police force, or a political force, it's a military force. If they could use their fire power at will, trust me, there wouldn't be Iraq's insurgency, but the cost in civilian lives would be astronomical.
Whether winning the war achieved its objectives, or was good or bad is beyond the point, that's not the generals' fault, they are soldier, they win battles and wars, they don't achieve political objectives.
Quote:
as for a new cold war yes it will happen between china and the USA
primarily fought over asia as USA keeps on ceding space to china in the asia pacific region
I don't understand why you keep Russia out of it. the US never had too much "space" in Asia anyway, only Japan, Israel, Thailand and a few others were on its side, the main scenario of the cold war was Europe, not Asia.
Quote:
japan and india will try to balance china but will fail
and you say that based on ...
Quote:
however a few things are in order
taiwan will go back under chinese control
wishful thinking, again, I don't know what you base that on, IMO other parts of China will separate as well, if China had the power to get Taiwan back they would have done it by now.
Quote:
asean countries will come under china's influnce
india , japan and usa will form some sort of alliance
russia wil blow hot blow cold with both USA and china
India will follow its own interest, so will Japan and Russia.

In fact, at some point during the cold war the Americans and the Russians thought the Chinese could be more dangerous than each other.

The Russians were keeping more troops in the Chinese border than in Europe, they knew Nato would not attack but weren't sure about the Chinese.

The US submarines in the Pacific Ocean have been more intended to target China than Russia, again, the American knew the Russian would likely not attack them, but weren't sure about the Chinese.

BTW, the American will follow their own interest as well, they will get close to China or Russia, or India or Europe according to what benefits them the most.

There is not such a thing as a friendship in international politics.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old Oct 21st, 2007, 01:11 AM
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Re: Quickly, buy defense contractors shares.

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Originally Posted by Fingon View Post
neither Russia can confront the US, they have nuclear weapons, remember.

you can't even dream of comparing Japan with China. Japan has 10% of China's population, and does not have a fraction of social problems China has.
so todays china is somewhat similar to 1960s Japan
I am sure that it also had the same level of inequality that we see now in China
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingon View Post
Just feeding everyone is a huge problem in China, the more the economy grows, the more difficult it will be for the government to keep control, they can block the internet only for so long.

One reason why China was never under the control of a foreign power (with the exception of the Mongols), despite being very weak at time was its size, they could not digest it. Japan or Great Britain controlled parts of the country but never the whole of it.
Excuse me , india is also a huge country with 1.1 billion country and it was ruled by the britishers as recently as 60 years ago as was canada for a large part of history
nothing that hasnt been done already
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Originally Posted by Fingon View Post
the Chinese goverment is having increased problems to keep people uninformed so they won't go to claim their part, we are talking about 1.3 billion people, I repeat, 1.3 billiong people.
it would have been far harder during the great famine and they still managed to do it


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingon View Post
In addition, they are accumulating a huge amount of reserves, some think that gives them a lot of power, it does not.

I remember reading a comment by John D. Rockefeller once, he said, if you owe a bank 1 million dollars, you have a problem, if you owe 100 million, then the bank has a problem.

That's precisely their problem, they have to hope the US economy keeps going otherwise their currency reserves are worth nothing and they won't have a market to sell, it's the very same problem Japan and Germany faced before.
this is something i agree with

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingon View Post
The Chinese economy is growing very fast, but it is very, very far from being a developed economy, their infrastructure is far from ready and several parts of the country haven't advanced to the 21st century, Shanghai, Beijing and Guanzhou are not China.

Saying that just because some people were wrong predicting Japan's dismissal that China will follow the same patter is , to put it mild, streching it, more than a bit, you can't say that because some people misjudged an Asian country years ago the same will happen now.

And btw, there were a lot of predictions that Japan would dominate the world when they started to accumulate a lot of reserves and they started to see Japanese made goods all over the place, that never was the case.
i knew this was coming when i quoted japan
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Originally Posted by Fingon View Post
Nobody denies that China will be one of the most important economic powers, but it will not be a dominant power, not in its current form, maybe if they split the country, the eastern part could become a superpower, but right now, it has too much to drag on.
only time will tell


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingon View Post
hmm, yes, for a short period of time, as history shows, it's beyond the topic but there are reasons why dictatorships cannot maintain their power for too long, particulary true in the 20th century (I am talking of a truely global power, not just over their own country). Look at the nazis, the Japanese, the Soviet Union, even China had to relax its rules at least in the economic front.
look i am no fan of hitler but history would have judged him differently had he won the war as for the japanese they were silenced only because america had the bomb not because they were dictators
their losing had nothing to dictatorship or democracy

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